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arbalesttom	Posted - 2007.09.19 22:41:00 - [1] ¦¦¦THIS IS NOT A "OMG THE MYRM IS OVERPOWERED, NERF NERF NERF" topic. If you have to say something about that ¦overpoweredness¦ of droneships, especially the myrm, go cry, eat some chocolat, get some beer or coffee and start your own topic. Also, its not a topic about which particular ship is effective against a myrm. ITS ONLY, and ONLY about HOW to effectively counter drones. I dare you, DONT WHINE, BE CONSTRUCTIVE OF STFU¦¦¦ Im getting sooooo omgwtf sick of all the whining about the myrm and its ¦overpowerdness¦. Everyone that says the myrm is overpowered should stfu, because there are plenty of ways to counter it. The myrm relies for most of its dps on DRONES. Drones, unlike all other weapons, can be destroyed. A myrm without drones is dead meat/running goose. So here to start, "Arby¦s guide to kill drones, in other words, to kill a myrm": Missiles are verry effective against drones, especially if the missile pilot uses a targetpainter-sensorbooster on the drones. For non missile peeps, using a web on drones is a verry good way to hit them solidly. Ever heard from smartbombs? you really should check what you can do with them! Your own drones! Yes, take that little creepy minions out to kill the enemies drones! Ok, let us all try to be constructive and think of some other ways to kill drones. And remember, DONT WHINE, BE CONSTRUCTIVE or STFU
Liang Nuren The Refugees	Posted - 2007.09.19 22:44:00 - [2] I've had really good luck with high alpha strikes from Heavy Missiles putting Ogre II's into deep armor in a single volley. Usually it's only 1 more, but max skilled requires 2 more volleys to burst it. I've also had really good luck taking out heavy drones with an AC Thrasher. Liang Yarr?
Augeas	Posted - 2007.09.19 23:15:00 - [3] Not this rubbish again. Smartbombs - not viable in highsec, for reasons even Tom should be able to figure out. For all the rest apart from FOFs, RSD and timed scoop/deploy solves things. In any case, drones are only half the problem - the six hislots on Myrm and Domi can actually be fitted with turrets, although I expect clueless Gallenteasymoders like Tom just fit cookiecutter Nos (still)/neut fits.
Elmicker The Phoenix Rising FreeFall Securities	Posted - 2007.09.19 23:17:00 - [4] Even if you do focus on the drones, you're taking on something like (correct me if i'm wrong) 20k effective HP, orbiting close in at high speed with a low sig. If the myrm/demo/eos/ishtar pilot is smart, he'll be remote repping them, too (or just rotating them in/out, but that leaves armour damage). Good luck getting through all that before you're dead.
Liang Nuren The Refugees	Posted - 2007.09.19 23:30:00 - [5] Elmicker, Drones aren't some ebil thing of doom that's impossible to counter. The two things I suggested work. They work well enough to defend yourself vs a Dominix if its required. Well, they work for me. Liang Yarr?
Elmicker The Phoenix Rising FreeFall Securities	Posted - 2007.09.19 23:36:00 - [6] Originally by: Liang Nuren Drones aren't some ebil thing of doom that's impossible to counter. I never said they were. I was simply pointing out that the hypothetical situations you're basing the anti-drone tactics off are flawed. Anyway, this whole post is a thinly veiled "let's not nerf the myrmidon" thread, so, let's not even bother.
NoNah Unseen University	Posted - 2007.09.19 23:43:00 - [7] Originally by: Augeas Not this rubbish again. Smartbombs - not viable in highsec, for reasons even Tom should be able to figure out. For all the rest apart from FOFs, RSD and timed scoop/deploy solves things. In any case, drones are only half the problem - the six hislots on Myrm and Domi can actually be fitted with turrets, although I expect clueless Gallenteasymoders like Tom just fit cookiecutter Nos (still)/neut fits. Yes, and pvp is extremely common in highsec, in and around stations and gates? Get out in a belt, and smartbomb away, yes they could trap you, but hey... not likely and its a decent effort and risk. RSD's will help of course, if scooping and redeploying. If you stock up on RSD's, get close enough to scoop and redeploy, and use remote reppers, and get a neutral to cloak next to the ship to prevent smartbombs... I don't suppose.. the drones should be hard to kill then? If you get a faster ship and keep your distance, you can easily pick off his drones with a web and drones? Postcount: 167432
Aleranie	Posted - 2007.09.20 00:02:00 - [8] Edited by: Aleranie on 20/09/2007 00:02:32 Except its NOT directly analogous to killing a 20k effective hp ship. If that were the case, you would see no returns until the entirety of that buffer was dead. Instead, from your own example we find that doing 4k total damage results in 20% of the dps dropping off immediately.
Liang Nuren The Refugees	Posted - 2007.09.20 00:17:00 - [9] The best part is when people use unbonused drones. I've instapopped T1 Heavies in my Drake before ... saved me vs a Megathron too. Rawr for him warping out in structure. Liang Yarr?
arbalesttom	Posted - 2007.09.20 08:31:00 - [10] Originally by: Augeas Not this rubbish again. Smartbombs - not viable in highsec, for reasons even Tom should be able to figure out. For all the rest apart from FOFs, RSD and timed scoop/deploy solves things. In any case, drones are only half the problem - the six hislots on Myrm and Domi can actually be fitted with turrets, although I expect clueless Gallenteasymoders like Tom just fit cookiecutter Nos (still)/neut fits. Hey, why dont you just stfu? This topic is about HOW TO COUNTER DRONES, be constructive or stfu. And no, i have blasters on my myrm. I actually never used more than 1nos on a myrm. Besides, the myrm hasnt got any turret bonus, so your support skills have to be darn good to get some good additional dps out of it. Ok, smartbombs aint a good thing always, especially in highsec/near stations/gates etc. For the rest there pretty effective against drones. Ever tried to shoot a drone? its pretty effective, actually. As a gun user, just web them and shoot them, you should be able to kill one before the myrmpilot starts to understand hes ****** if he doesnt watch better after his drones. Missiles are, like mentioned above, verry good against drones, especially when you stick a painter on your ship. You should be able to get them into armor/structure with one volly (granted that you have decent t2 missile and support skills). Every droneship user you will counter will probably use the SAME tactic over and over again (mwd, scram, web, deploy ogre's, orbit, 'omgwtfamigoingtodo??', dead). When you understand this, is it that hard to start adapting to this tactic? Two tactics can be, stay out of webrange (so you will be faster than the myrm with mwd on, so the drones cant reach you) or start killing the drones (if youdidnt know, most dps from droneships come from the drones..). If you dont know how to kill drones, your a nub. Stop whine because your actually a nub, or start adapting new tactics and own a myrm.
arbalesttom	Posted - 2007.09.20 09:59:00 - [11] Cmon droneship whiners! Try to be constructive and post some usefull ideas! Droneships gonna get nerfed anyway, so let us think of good tactics to kill the dronezz!!!
Saint Luka The Illuminati. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.09.20 10:02:00 - [12] Edited by: Saint Luka on 20/09/2007 10:05:06 Any smart pilot that is fit correctly can counter drones. I've solo'd Ishtar's in my Sabre, you just need to adapt. How to kill drones, Small/med guns, preferably a web and alot of macro management. Or just go for the old smartbomb. Edit: However, no whine intended but compared to all Tier 2 BattleCruisers the Mym is clearly overpowered. I've personally not got a problem with it or people whome fly it but it is currently a game balance issue. -
Stork DK Synthetic Frontiers	Posted - 2007.09.20 12:00:00 - [13] My huginn with 650MM's instapops Hammerhead II's... Dual web and a target paint... Blast away \o/ -------------- Who dares to mod my sig?!
Benn Helmsman Caldari Helmsman Engineering Company	Posted - 2007.09.20 14:00:00 - [14] Try to counter a domi or eos by shooting his drones: Weee \o/ i finally shot one of his drones after i lost most of my tank... oh he launches another one :[ ... repeat
madaluap Gallente Mercenary Forces Exquisite Malevolence	Posted - 2007.09.20 14:17:00 - [15] Originally by: Benn Helmsman Try to counter a domi or eos by shooting his drones: Weee \o/ i finally shot one of his drones after i lost most of my tank... oh he launches another one :[ ... repeat So what do you want? You seem like a simple ignorant whiner to me. What do you want? You want the domi to just hold 1 wave. So that if you shoot down 5* ogre II you have a ship with no offensive capabilities, except tank. Or no tank and some electron II dps. Which sucks balls. _________________________________________________ Breetime A killmail!11!1 omgrawr: BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
Benn Helmsman Caldari Helmsman Engineering Company	Posted - 2007.09.20 14:56:00 - [16] Originally by: madaluap Originally by: Benn Helmsman Try to counter a domi or eos by shooting his drones: Weee \o/ i finally shot one of his drones after i lost most of my tank... oh he launches another one :[ ... repeat So what do you want? You seem like a simple ignorant whiner to me. What do you want? You want the domi to just hold 1 wave. So that if you shoot down 5* ogre II you have a ship with no offensive capabilities, except tank. Or no tank and some electron II dps. Which sucks balls. A tripple 1600 rt plated domi can deliver over 400 dps without ANY drones or MFS... i wouldnt call that no tank
Susan Acid Gallente	Posted - 2007.09.20 15:29:00 - [17] Edited by: Susan Acid on 20/09/2007 15:29:35 Originally by: Benn Helmsman A tripple 1600 rt plated domi can deliver over 400 dps without ANY drones or MFS. Care to post that set up?I'm not disputing it I would just like to see what else fits for...erm...future reference.
Kagura Nikon Minmatar MASS HOMICIDE Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.09.20 15:32:00 - [18] Heavy drones.. i Simply move faster than them. I get worried when I get attacked by medium drones If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
Xaen Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.09.20 15:44:00 - [19] Originally by: Elmicker Even if you do focus on the drones, you're taking on something like (correct me if i'm wrong) 20k effective HP, orbiting close in at high speed with a low sig. If the myrm/demo/eos/ishtar pilot is smart, he'll be remote repping them, too (or just rotating them in/out, but that leaves armour damage). Good luck getting through all that before you're dead. Effective HP is fictitious and bull**. I've seen several people have good luck with havey missiles vs. heavy drones. My Ogre IIs do not have a "low sig" it's 100m. That's the size of a ***** Scythe (cruiser). And with their MWDs on it's 500 and they only go about 1100 m/s. Try sucking less and whining less. ----------- Support fixing the EVE UI Drones should not aggro anything missiles or turrets do not.
Xaen Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.09.20 15:45:00 - [20] Originally by: Saint Luka Edited by: Saint Luka on 20/09/2007 10:05:06 Any smart pilot that is fit correctly can counter drones. I've solo'd Ishtar's in my Sabre, you just need to adapt. How to kill drones, Small/med guns, preferably a web and alot of macro management. Or just go for the old smartbomb. Edit: However, no whine intended but compared to all Tier 2 BattleCruisers the Mym is clearly overpowered. I've personally not got a problem with it or people whome fly it but it is currently a game balance issue. If it's overpowered but a drake can pwn it just by blowing up its drones, what does that say about the drake? ----------- Support fixing the EVE UI Drones should not aggro anything missiles or turrets do not.
Benn Helmsman Caldari Helmsman Engineering Company	Posted - 2007.09.20 15:52:00 - [21] Edited by: Benn Helmsman on 20/09/2007 15:53:57 Originally by: Susan Acid Edited by: Susan Acid on 20/09/2007 15:29:35 Originally by: Benn Helmsman A tripple 1600 rt plated domi can deliver over 400 dps without ANY drones or MFS. Care to post that set up?I'm not disputing it I would just like to see what else fits for...erm...future reference. 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I Damage Control II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Power Diagnostic System II Quad LiF Fueled I Booster Rockets Heavy Capacitor Booster II Stasis Webifier II Warp Disruptor II Remote Sensor Dampener II Electron Blaster Cannon II Electron Blaster Cannon II Electron Blaster Cannon II Electron Blaster Cannon II Electron Blaster Cannon II Electron Blaster Cannon II [empty rig slot] [empty rig slot] [empty rig slot] Add: if you dont have AWU 5 you need to chance the PDS to a RCU
Pavachek Secundus Secundus Salvage	Posted - 2007.09.20 16:12:00 - [22] Edited by: Pavachek Secundus on 20/09/2007 16:12:54 Originally by: Kagura Nikon ...I get worried when I get attacked by medium drones. I know it's heresy to say this, but I'm a Myrmi pilot who has never used heavy drones. It's always seemed like a better idea to field 2 waves of medium drones and 1 wave of lights (mostly as a drone counter) to keep an opponent off-balance. I was operating under the assumption that anyone I come up against in PvP is going to be expecting 5 heavies at point-blank and be prepared for it or come up with an effective counter on the fly. Yes, it gimps my DPS to go with mediums or lights but it does give me a wider range of EW/damage types at my disposal. I'm actually looking forward to the introduction of "bandwidth" if it means that my BC gets a bigger bay thus opening up my options even more.
Liang Nuren The Refugees	Posted - 2007.09.20 17:04:00 - [23] Originally by: Pavachek Secundus Edited by: Pavachek Secundus on 20/09/2007 16:12:54 Originally by: Kagura Nikon ...I get worried when I get attacked by medium drones. I know it's heresy to say this, but I'm a Myrmi pilot who has never used heavy drones. It's always seemed like a better idea to field 2 waves of medium drones and 1 wave of lights (mostly as a drone counter) to keep an opponent off-balance. I was operating under the assumption that anyone I come up against in PvP is going to be expecting 5 heavies at point-blank and be prepared for it or come up with an effective counter on the fly. Yes, it gimps my DPS to go with mediums or lights but it does give me a wider range of EW/damage types at my disposal. I'm actually looking forward to the introduction of "bandwidth" if it means that my BC gets a bigger bay thus opening up my options even more. When I was still a noob Myrm pilot, I flew with 5 Ogre I's. Now I fly with 4 heavies and a flight of lights. Liang Yarr?
Ione Hunt 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.09.20 17:17:00 - [24] Edited by: Ione Hunt on 20/09/2007 17:20:05 Edited by: Ione Hunt on 20/09/2007 17:18:50 First rule, go for the drones and NOT the actual enemy ship FIRST! Web the drones if you have a web, chose high-tracking ammo (precision missiles, EMP, etc.) and use your own drones (!!). Focus on tanking the enemy only, don't fire at him until you have reduced his damage output (read: drones). If drones are your enemy's main offense, using the above tactic will make sure he'll do only joke damage once you're done. A web really helps because it will make sure that he can't just recall drones fast if you shoot them. The reason so many people whine (check out the giant drone whine thread a few posts down) is that this tactic requires more than just locking 1 target. You need to micro manage your offense...and I guess that's too much mental challenge for a lot of players. I fly mostly Minmatar, and I'm hardly ever worried about drones. _______________
Arana Tellen Gallente The Blackguard Wolves Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2007.09.20 17:36:00 - [25] Originally by: Benn Helmsman Edited by: Benn Helmsman on 20/09/2007 15:53:57 Originally by: Susan Acid Edited by: Susan Acid on 20/09/2007 15:29:35 Originally by: Benn Helmsman A tripple 1600 rt plated domi can deliver over 400 dps without ANY drones or MFS. Care to post that set up?I'm not disputing it I would just like to see what else fits for...erm...future reference. 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I Damage Control II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Power Diagnostic System II Quad LiF Fueled I Booster Rockets Heavy Capacitor Booster II Stasis Webifier II Warp Disruptor II Remote Sensor Dampener II Electron Blaster Cannon II Electron Blaster Cannon II Electron Blaster Cannon II Electron Blaster Cannon II Electron Blaster Cannon II Electron Blaster Cannon II [empty rig slot] [empty rig slot] [empty rig slot] Add: if you dont have AWU 5 you need to chance the PDS to a RCU Or change the Heavy cap injector to an electrochem since they do the same thing yet take less PG. I'd also change the RSD to a tracking disruptor. --------------------------------- Core 2 Duo E4300 1.8ghz @ 3ghz, 2GB Gskill DDR2 5400 @ 800mhh 4-4-4-12, Abit fatality mATX F-I90HD @ 334mhz, 8800GTS 320mb 2x250GB 7200.10s Raid 0, Vista 64 Home.
arbalesttom	Posted - 2007.09.20 17:37:00 - [26] Thats the spirit guys, lets keep the interesting ideas coming! Anyone know if fof's are a good idea against drones? Or do fof's hit the closest random target? Would be interesting to see some stats on that... Arb
Liang Nuren The Refugees	Posted - 2007.09.20 18:02:00 - [27] FOF's hit the closest target. I've had good luck with them "primarying" specific drones - but I've heard others (even some reasonably competent PVP'ers) say that it doesn't work that way. =/ Liang Yarr?
Kur'Dekaija Atomic Heroes The OSS	Posted - 2007.09.20 18:19:00 - [28] What I do to counter drones, 1. Web helps a lot, Ogre II webbed can be easily hit by a bs size close combat guns. 2. When I fly a bs I usualy have a set of t2 light drones with me + the heavy. If you got a web then use the heavy on the enemy drones, if you dont then light does a great job. 3. Stay 10+ km from the enemy, if he stupid he will send his drone after you. So do ether 1 or 2. (this also works well against most drone ships cuz they fit blasters :O) 4. If you are in a small ship and cant kill the enemy ship then for the fun of it kill his drones by using 1, 2 or 3. If you have any pvp experience then you should allready know this, if not then stop whining, get out of the forum and start playing the game.
Ask Unbeatable Gallente HighTech Marines Ltd. FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.09.20 18:40:00 - [29] Did you think of doing something unconventional .. like shooting them? Originally by: CCP Zulupark My armory is full of smack, but this ******* profanity filter stops it all.
Divideby0 Gallente Amalgamated Industries	Posted - 2007.09.20 20:15:00 - [30] Has anyone ever tried ECM bursting them? I recall somewhere someone mentioning drones are immune to EW, cant remember for certain. Who is the bigger carebear: The miner who braves lowsec on his own, or the "PvPer" who attacks an unarmed ship? I support the f
Liang Nuren The Refugees	Posted - 2007.09.20 20:44:00 - [31] Originally by: Divideby0 Has anyone ever tried ECM bursting them? I recall somewhere someone mentioning drones are immune to EW, cant remember for certain. I've tried ECM bursting before and it didn't work. It may have been bad luck though. ;-) Liang Yarr?
Siakel	Posted - 2007.09.20 20:57:00 - [32] People post things like 'just shoot the drones' as if it was easy, but the truth is, it isn't easy for turret ships. First, they have to switch their web off the drone ship and onto the drone itself, letting the drone ship close to 0m or fly out of webrange, and then they have to wait for the drone itself to slow down a bit so they can hit it, and then start shooting it and hope the drone-ship's reaction times are slow. More often than not, the droneship pilot will scoop the drone with little to no armor damage, and re deploy it, so the turret ship has lost however much DPS, has let the drone ship dictate range, and has taken quite a bit of damage himself. Effectively, he's done nothing for however much time he spent shooting the drone. This is because, though a turrets DPS is usually higher, their alpha is quite a bit lower, and in this situation what you want is alpha. The person posting about their Drake with Heavies taking out drones is correct - Heavies are easy to kill, with a heavy-launcher Drake. This is because those Heavy Missiles are hitting orbiting Heavy drones perfectly, and doing so much alpha that they punch straight through the Drone's shields and into armor on every volley, making it impossible for the droneship to keep his drones alive. The Drake also doesn't need to switch it's web, if any, to the drone because while orbiting- they simply don't do go fast enough. All Cruiser-sized missile ships share this anti-drone capability, and yes, it makes them good counters to the Myrmidon. However, that doesn't make the Myrmidon any less overpowered, as it still shreds any non-missile BC with ease, and only truly has a hard time with the Drake because the Drake fits such a heavy tank at the same time as it has it's high alpha. If it had the same alpha but tanked like, say, a Harbinger, it wouldn't be nearly as effective against a Myrmidon. Heavy Missiles also work great against Medium Drones, and then of course, almost anything can kill light drones before they can be scooped if they're webbed. Anyway, it's wrong to claim that the Myrmidon's damage with Heavies is balanced because there is a single ship in the same class that seems almost tailor-made to kill it's drones. The simple truth is, a Myrm with 5 Heavies outclasses every ship in it's class, and it really shouldn't be so good. As for counters to drones, well. Appropriately-sized missiles for Heavy/Med drones, and anything with a web for lights. Smartbombs counter drones well enough, but only in belts, or at planets/POS, etc, for lowsec, and nowhere for highsec. The problem with Smartbombs is that you really need to use multiple smartbombs to have the alpha required to kill drones before they can be called back, and even then only BS-sized smartbombs are really effective at it, and fitting them tends to ruin your setup, either by taking slots you can't spare or because of the high fitting cost/capuse.
Sahriah BloodStone	Posted - 2007.09.20 22:13:00 - [33] Now i want to fly a myrm (havnt got around to training properly for it yet) and im not sure if i want them nerfed or not. Sure there is many ways to counter drones but the main point i think people are getting at is that a drone boat comes equipped with one setup to take on anything. Whereas you have to especially fit for destroying drone boats and the "special equipment" you may bring EG: smartbomb/FOF may be useless in other situations..i know drones can be useless at long range sometimes..BUT they are useful in more situations then smartbombs, FOF's and other Anti-drone things are
Stuart Price Caldari Havoc Inc	Posted - 2007.09.20 23:05:00 - [34] I'm thinking about renaming my Harpy 'Cilit BANG' on account of it killing all known drones dead. I also like to carry a wave of t2 lights to eat hostile drones with. "I got soul but I'm not a soldier"
Shiken Kan	Posted - 2007.09.20 23:19:00 - [35] imo best counter to drones are fof and if you engage them all at the same time they will hit the same drone, not so if you engage them one after another. guns can be more problematic especially if you only field medium or large ones but drones are actually pretty good vs the others. main problem against this scoop/redeploy thingie tho is that you need a high alpha. if you can't get em into armor with one hit you most likely won't be able to kill them. smarties are a bit problematic as you have to especially fit em and they don't do you much good versus most other things, thus corrrupting your setup quite a bit.

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