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Shereza
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Posted - 2007.09.20 06:57:00 -
[1]
I'm just curious.
I accidentally plink my alt with a laser while trying to repair her and kill NPCs at the same time and CONCORD blows my abaddon out of the water in under 10 seconds in the middle of a deadspace area.
I'm hauling around some of my gear in an iteron and get blown up to the tune of 200m isk and CONCORD doesn't destroy the 2 caracals until apparently after my ship is destroyed.
So how do I prevent CONCORD from waiting around until after my ship is destroyed before coming to my aid since there are few options (that I haven't already taken) to prevent them from violating the game mechanics players have to follow and wiping out battleships apparently faster than they can wipe out cruisers?
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Lady ISK'Alot
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Posted - 2007.09.20 07:11:00 -
[2]
keep undocking every 10minutes :o
they will eventually give up.
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Mashie Saldana
Omerta Syndicate
Exuro Mortis
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Posted - 2007.09.20 07:35:00 -
[3]
CONCORD provide punishment, not protection.
Light Assault Launchers & Defender FoF ideas |
Ridley Scot
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.09.20 07:37:00 -
[4]
Please rest assured though that the offending pilot will have incurred a significant security standing penalty and lost their ship which will surely have a detrimental impact on their ability to play the game. 
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Amarria Black
Clan Anthraxx
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Posted - 2007.09.20 07:41:00 -
[5]
 Originally by: Ridley Scot
Please rest assured though that the offending pilot will have incurred a significant security standing penalty and lost their ship which will surely have a detrimental impact on their ability to play the game.
Especially when said pilot will be fed to the industrial-grade recyclers, coming out the other end as a spotless, shiny new griefer alt.
The inconvenience we subject our anonymous epeen-fapping gutter scum to... it's horrifying.
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Banana Torres
The Green Banana Corporation
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Posted - 2007.09.20 07:53:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Amarria Black
Originally by: Ridley Scot
Please rest assured though that the offending pilot will have incurred a significant security standing penalty and lost their ship which will surely have a detrimental impact on their ability to play the game.
Especially when said pilot will be fed to the industrial-grade recyclers, coming out the other end as a spotless, shiny new griefer alt.
The inconvenience we subject our anonymous epeen-fapping gutter scum to... it's horrifying.
If you don't know what you are talking about it is best to keep quiet.
Recycling suicide alts is a bannable offense. If you suspect someone is doing it raise a petition.
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Nyphur
Pillowsoft
Total Comfort
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Posted - 2007.09.20 07:54:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Amarria Black
Originally by: Ridley Scot
Please rest assured though that the offending pilot will have incurred a significant security standing penalty and lost their ship which will surely have a detrimental impact on their ability to play the game.
Especially when said pilot will be fed to the industrial-grade recyclers, coming out the other end as a spotless, shiny new griefer alt.
The inconvenience we subject our anonymous epeen-fapping gutter scum to... it's horrifying.
Recycling alts to bypass the security status system is classified as an exploit. This specifically refers to someone repeatedly and knowingly creating a character, spending little to no training time on them or using a trial account where the training time is effectively free, using them for suicide ganks and then recycling the character or account when the security status gets too low to be useful.
To the OP:
CONCORD do not show a bias. The only thing that may affect their response time will be sec rating of the system you're in - allegedly, their response time is slower in 0.5 than 0.7. Your abaddon was destroyed just as their caracals were, the only difference being that they were intentionally attacking you and knew that they could kill you before concord showed up. This is a perfectly legitimate game mechanic and tactic. Remember that concord only provide a promise that the enemy's ship will be destroyed if they commit a crime and don't actually prevent attacks on players at all.
If you want to prevent this from happening in the future, try not to be a juicy target. Carrying 200mil of stuff in a tech 1 hauler on autopilot is just asking for trouble.
Eve-Tanking.com - We're sorry, something happened. |
Gold Rogers
Solitude Empires
United Freemen Alliance
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Posted - 2007.09.20 07:58:00 -
[8]
What were the security levels of the systems? The lower the level the longer it takes Concord to turn up.
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Amarria Black
Clan Anthraxx
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Posted - 2007.09.20 07:59:00 -
[9]
Banana / Nyphur: Saying it's a bannable offense glosses over the truth. Macroing and ISK selling are bannable offenses. Amazing how both practices still flourish. What percentage of people recycling suicide alts do you honestly think are caught and banned?
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Flex Nebura
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.09.20 08:07:00 -
[10]
Join or create a player corp with you and your alt.. now you can shoot your alt all you want.
That should help with 1 of your problems.
Might even help with the other problem too as you can have someone help you with the gankers..
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Nyphur
Pillowsoft
Total Comfort
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Posted - 2007.09.20 08:20:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Amarria Black
Banana / Nyphur: Saying it's a bannable offense glosses over the truth. Macroing and ISK selling are bannable offenses. Amazing how both practices still flourish. What percentage of people recycling suicide alts do you honestly think are caught and banned?
I would wager that the percentage gets a lot higher if you actually bother to report them.
Eve-Tanking.com - We're sorry, something happened. |
Benvie
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Posted - 2007.09.20 08:24:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Mashie Saldana
CONCORD provide punishment, not protection.
What kind of punishment? Oh you mean paying 5% the value of the ship that got blown up because insurance paid for most of it? Yeah, harsh punishment there.
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Nyphur
Pillowsoft
Total Comfort
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Posted - 2007.09.20 08:24:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Nyphur on 20/09/2007 08:24:57
Originally by: Benvie
Originally by: Mashie Saldana
CONCORD provide punishment, not protection.
What kind of punishment? Oh you mean paying 5% the value of the ship that got blown up because insurance paid for most of it? Yeah, harsh punishment there.
30% plus module cost and a sec hit
Eve-Tanking.com - We're sorry, something happened. |
Ridley Scot
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.09.20 08:28:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Ridley Scot on 20/09/2007 08:33:07
Edited by: Ridley Scot on 20/09/2007 08:30:20
Originally by: Nyphur
Edited by: Nyphur on 20/09/2007 08:24:57
Originally by: Benvie
Originally by: Mashie Saldana
CONCORD provide punishment, not protection.
What kind of punishment? Oh you mean paying 5% the value of the ship that got blown up because insurance paid for most of it? Yeah, harsh punishment there.
30% plus module cost and a sec hit
Tech 1 modules cost next to nothing AND they end up looted if they are not destroyed, by the same alt looting the can of the ship they ganked. Sec hit? I laugh at that.... You are probably looking at 20ish or 30ish mil ISK lost per ship depending on the ship class. So any ship with loot worth more then twice that much is gankable.
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Shereza
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Posted - 2007.09.20 08:33:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Shereza on 20/09/2007 08:33:41
Cargo cost should be a factor considering I had a hulk in my hold.
Systems I lost the battleships in were .7, system I lost the iteron in was .6. Don't think .1 difference warrants a 300-400% boost to nukage time.
Of course since CONCORD doesn't attack NPCs for attacking you, even if they warp into the area to kill you, but does attack PCs for attacking you for some odd reason I shouldn't probably expect much, especially in the way of logical action, from CONCORD.
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Captian Internet
Lead Bricks
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Posted - 2007.09.20 08:35:00 -
[16]
Don't undock problem solved
Changes to Local,War ,Navigation Shortcuts |
Nyphur
Pillowsoft
Total Comfort
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Posted - 2007.09.20 08:39:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Ridley Scot
Tech 1 modules cost next to nothing AND they end up looted if they are not destroyed, by the same alt looting the can of the ship they ganked. Sec hit? I laugh at that.... You are probably looking at 20ish or 30ish mil ISK lost per ship depending on the ship class. So any ship with loot worth more then twice that much is gankable.
And? What do you expect? Do you want them to be permanantly banned from empire space? Massive isk fines? They attacked someone so they lose their ship, that's how it goes. Just because they purposely fit their ships so that they lose very little and pick targets that will drop a lot more than that in loot does not mean that the system is broken. We have freighters, blockade runners and transport ships for carrying large values of items. In fact, a lot of people carry their small valuables in battleships.
Eve-Tanking.com - We're sorry, something happened. |
Ridley Scot
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.09.20 08:51:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Nyphur
Originally by: Ridley Scot
Tech 1 modules cost next to nothing AND they end up looted if they are not destroyed, by the same alt looting the can of the ship they ganked. Sec hit? I laugh at that.... You are probably looking at 20ish or 30ish mil ISK lost per ship depending on the ship class. So any ship with loot worth more then twice that much is gankable.
And? What do you expect? Do you want them to be permanantly banned from empire space? Massive isk fines? They attacked someone so they lose their ship, that's how it goes. Just because they purposely fit their ships so that they lose very little and pick targets that will drop a lot more than that in loot does not mean that the system is broken. We have freighters, blockade runners and transport ships for carrying large values of items. In fact, a lot of people carry their small valuables in battleships.
No insurance for suicide gankers, all items in and on the ship attacked should be destroyed with the ship so there is nothing to loot, or whatever else needs to be changed to prevent this loophole.
As for the transport ships, freighters and hauling in battleships, its all been said in many other threads on this subject in the last few days so I'm not going to repeat what was said. If you are interested, browse few pages after the first one...
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Reem Fairchild
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Posted - 2007.09.20 09:01:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Ridley Scot
No insurance for suicide gankers, all items in and on the ship attacked should be destroyed with the ship so there is nothing to loot, or whatever else needs to be changed to prevent this loophole.
Your problem is that you think it's a loophole. It's not.
If you really weren't meant to be able to kill people in high sec systems, CCP would have made it impossible to even fire at other players in high sec to begin with.
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Ridley Scot
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.09.20 09:05:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Ridley Scot on 20/09/2007 09:05:45
Edited by: Ridley Scot on 20/09/2007 09:05:27
Originally by: Reem Fairchild
Originally by: Ridley Scot
No insurance for suicide gankers, all items in and on the ship attacked should be destroyed with the ship so there is nothing to loot, or whatever else needs to be changed to prevent this loophole.
Your problem is that you think it's a loophole. It's not.
If you really weren't meant to be able to kill people in high sec systems, CCP would have made it impossible to even fire at other players in high sec to begin with.
Its not about being able to kill people in high sec, its about being able to profit from it and make that a mini-profession regardless how lame that might be.
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Fester Addams
Minmatar
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Posted - 2007.09.20 09:21:00 -
[21]
Like people have posted, response times are different in lower sec systems.
As for gankers, they specialize to kill in well under 10 sec, those few sec that you get attacked during may seem like a long and agonizing time but in reality its very VERY fast.
We than come to ganker fixes, off topic yes but such are kicked round alot.
Sugested fix #1: faster and more powerfull concord.
Why not simply make non war related PvP in highsec impossible?
I am personally not supporting this but why even alow PvP if its suposed to be so hard its impossible?
Sugested Fix #2: No insurance for concord deaths.
The main defense against this is that all the poor newbies that accidently open upp on a buddy will be without insurance payout.
We all know this is bull****, such deaths are few compared to the pirates use of the insurance payout but to some it makes for a powerfull argument as it has the pretext of protecting the itsy bitsy newbies.
No insurance on concord deaths should be in, if players should have to adapt and overcome to the first step into a lowsec camp then the same should be true for concord deaths.
After all the same warning pops upp.
Will this solve the problem?
No, it will just make suiciding more expensive.
It will lower the number of attacks but people will still get caught.
I do support removing insurance from concord kills, I meen I used to play back when there was no free insurance and an insurance term lasted 1 week, back then it was hard :)
My suggestion:
Rigs.
Cargo implotion rig:
If the rig is fitted on a ship then it greately increases the probability that cargo gets destroyed if the ship blows.
it should be set so that if you have 3 such rigs on a ship 99% of the cargo is lost.
Vital system implotion rig:
Same as cargo rig but greatly increases the probability that modules get destroyed.
The reason I want this is that the stuff will still be lost to the victim but the suicider gets little if anything.
It also makes killing a hauler more than just checking
10 choose target
20 scan ship
30 is worth more than 100mil goto 50
40 goto 10
50 destroy target
60 warp to station to get new suicide ship
70 alt hauler loots
80 goto 10
There would even be a good chance that despite the target having a cargo worth 5bil the suicider gets nothing.
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bigfatbird
Seven.
Enuma Elish.
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Posted - 2007.09.20 11:04:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Shereza
I'm just curious.
I accidentally plink my alt with a laser while trying to repair her and kill NPCs at the same time and CONCORD blows my abaddon out of the water in under 10 seconds in the middle of a deadspace area.
I'm hauling around some of my gear in an iteron and get blown up to the tune of 200m isk and CONCORD doesn't destroy the 2 caracals until apparently after my ship is destroyed.
So how do I prevent CONCORD from waiting around until after my ship is destroyed before coming to my aid since there are few options (that I haven't already taken) to prevent them from violating the game mechanics players have to follow and wiping out battleships apparently faster than they can wipe out cruisers?
Always have a T2 donut in your cargohold. Concord will then appear instantly to safe your ship. 
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Reem Fairchild
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Posted - 2007.09.20 11:34:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Ridley Scot
Its not about being able to kill people in high sec, its about being able to profit from it and make that a mini-profession regardless how lame that might be.
Just because you think its lame doesn't have to mean that it is not intended to be possible to profit from it or that it is a "loophole" or any kind of abuse of game mechanics.
Quote:
If Concord is here to punish, then why is high sec ganker rewarded for suicide with the loot and insurance payout? It just doesnt make any sense. Either remove Concord and that way pilots will not have the false sense of Concord protection or make sure attackers in high sec are punished for real.
"rewarded for suicide with the loot"? You make it sound as if they automatically get the loot.
I know the average suicide ganking scenario doesn't leave any time for the victim to get into a combat ship (if they even have one ready) and get back on the scene before the gankers' friend/alt, standing by in a hauler, has taken the loot and hidden in a station. But, the game mechanics themselves do not grant the ganker the loot.
The hauler is flagged for theft same as anyone else that steals from wrecks or cargo containers, and if you have a corp mate in the area, he can pop him safely. Also, any other ship there could just as easily steal the loot if they are faster.
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Malcanis
High4Life
SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2007.09.20 12:14:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Shereza
I'm just curious.
I accidentally plink my alt with a laser while trying to repair her and kill NPCs at the same time and CONCORD blows my abaddon out of the water in under 10 seconds in the middle of a deadspace area.
I'm hauling around some of my gear in an iteron and get blown up to the tune of 200m isk and CONCORD doesn't destroy the 2 caracals until apparently after my ship is destroyed.
So how do I prevent CONCORD from waiting around until after my ship is destroyed before coming to my aid since there are few options (that I haven't already taken) to prevent them from violating the game mechanics players have to follow and wiping out battleships apparently faster than they can wipe out cruisers?
And remember: if the whiners get their way, not only will your BS get blown up, but you won't even get insurance....
CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that. |
Malcanis
High4Life
SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2007.09.20 12:16:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Nyphur
Edited by: Nyphur on 20/09/2007 08:24:57
Originally by: Benvie
Originally by: Mashie Saldana
CONCORD provide punishment, not protection.
What kind of punishment? Oh you mean paying 5% the value of the ship that got blown up because insurance paid for most of it? Yeah, harsh punishment there.
30% plus module cost and a sec hit
Pft. It's not exaggeration or lying if it's done in a good cause.
5%.
CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that. |
Crazy Broad
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Posted - 2007.09.20 12:22:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Nyphur
Originally by: Amarria Black
Banana / Nyphur: Saying it's a bannable offense glosses over the truth. Macroing and ISK selling are bannable offenses. Amazing how both practices still flourish. What percentage of people recycling suicide alts do you honestly think are caught and banned?
I would wager that the percentage gets a lot higher if you actually bother to report them.
I wish, ive reported probably over 8 or so groups of isk farmers sitting in mackinaws with incoherent jibberish names, and know how many of them got banned? 0. They were obviously isk farmers, 5-8 of them with names like (cchhyix) one hauler, same join date.
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Lisento Slaven
Amarr
Vendetta Underground
Rule of Three
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Posted - 2007.09.20 12:33:00 -
[27]
What were you hauling worth 200 million isk?
Blueprint? NPC goods? Two small POS? Faction module?
---
Put in space whales!
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Princess Jodi
Vendetta Underground
Rule of Three
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Posted - 2007.09.20 14:12:00 -
[28]
I agree that the bannable offenses do not seem to get punished. What Eve needs is a 'Wall of Shame', where all the accounts that were banned that week/month/year are posted and the reasons why.
In my opinion, all law enforcement is meant to not only stop the perpetrator from commiting the crime again, but to serve as an example for others considering committing the crime. The second issue - deterrance - is the most important in my book.
Back to the Eve universe: A post stating that 'So-and-So's 45million SP character was perma-banned cuz they bought ISK' would do more to stop ISK selling than all the measures I've seen so far.
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Anaalys Fluuterby
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.09.20 14:15:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Crazy Broad
I wish, ive reported probably over 8 or so groups of isk farmers sitting in mackinaws with incoherent jibberish names, and know how many of them got banned? 0. They were obviously isk farmers, 5-8 of them with names like (cchhyix) one hauler, same join date.
Just to play devil's advocate, FARMING isn't illegal. If it was most of 0.0 would be empty as none of the alliances could keep up with their needs. So if CCP can't trace them to an ISK seller or show that they are actually macroing (most likely sweat shop workers actually at the keyboard) then they logically can't ban them..
As for the OP, I am constantly amazed at how many people can't comprehend that this happens. We get at least 2 whines a week over "I was hauling everything I had and went to the bathroom, when I came back I was blown up! NO fair!!!". Seriously, haven't you seen wrecks around gates? Haven't you seen people for no appearant reason lurking around gates? Haven't you ever undocked while shooting was going on? There are many ways of shooting at people in EvE, suiciding is just one of them. EvE rewards suspicion. It helps those that helps themselves. Just like you wouldn't go to the bank, get 20,000 in 20s and carry them through East LA, you don't put everything you own in a paper-thin ship and fly around with your blind folds on in the slowest manner possible. Gads, why were you even hauling the Hulk? It can tank better than the hauler you should have been flying IT and carrying the Hauler 
One of my friends convo'd me with suspicions about a new corp member the other night. This person knew the jargon LOL but didn't know AFK. It rang the suspicion bell; is it someone poorly trying to be more ignorant than he really is? If so, why? Who in this day knows what LOL means but doesn't know AFK?
He is... being watched.
Originally by: CCP Chronotis
Since this thread continues to fight against the people who derail it into the macro miners witchhunt. I will move it to features and ideas discussion where ...
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