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Wreck ownership and highsec suicide kiling

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Fester Addams Minmatar	Posted - 2007.09.20 11:56:00 - [1] Firstly I would like to say one thing: This is not an "it should illegal to suicide pirate in highsec!" post. This is a post to give the victims a chance to make suicide pirating in highsec less profitable for the pirate. As far as I know cans are all owned, as cans were merged into wrecks this meens the can part of a wreck is owned too. Thus if you kill an NPC ship and I loot it you will get to attack me without concord comming in doing their thing. This is the feature I would like to use to amend the balance between the suicide pirate and his victim. As is the attacker kills the victim, concord kills the attacker and the atatckers alt/buddy loots the wreck with no risk. What if the wreck in a PvP engagement gets a dual ownership? If it is owned by both the attacker and the victim and any looting of said can allows retribution from attacker (in a pod thanx to concord), the victim (in a pod thanx to the attacker) and any corp/gang/alliance member to ither attacker or victim. In short, what if that hauler picking upp the loot can be killed too? The main benefit of this would be that you can get retribution against the support crafts in a suicide pirate attack and most importantly, you can protect the wreck in an attempt to buy time to allow a friendly hauler to come and save what can be saved. I am sure I have missed some potential abuse and that will be brough forth if the thread gets interesting but I would love to hear both the pirate and the hauler population opinions on this. Keep it nice, keep it to the point, keep it constructive and no flames please.
Malcanis High4Life SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.09.20 12:18:00 - [2] The funny thing is, I remember the whine threads by Privateers about the naughty salvagers that would follow them around in cloaked MWD destroyers and "steal" "their" loot. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Illyria Ambri RennTech	Posted - 2007.09.20 13:22:00 - [3] Anyone who intends to suicide you will have a hauler nearby so as to grab your loot before your pod even makes it back to the station... or you return with a new ship after getting podded. Remember if you get popped but not podded.. there is still warp to station.. 20 seconds to switch ships then warp back.. your gear is already in their hauler and most likely already on its way back to a station. ------------ This is not War... This is pest control - Dalek Sek Here come the Drums!! - The Master
Slate Fistcrunch	Posted - 2007.09.20 13:29:00 - [4] Fester, I think you have a misunderstanding about the current game mechanics. When a person is ganked as you mention, the wreck belongs to the victim. That means anyone stealing from the wreck gets an aggression timer towards the victim and his / her corporation. And the attacker, well they have a global criminal countdown and now have kill rights granted to the victim. What exactly are you asking for? The looter can be attacked. The attacker can be attacked. The victim is in a pod.
Frug Zenithal Harvest 101010 Alliance	Posted - 2007.09.20 13:41:00 - [5] Originally by: Malcanis The funny thing is, I remember the whine threads by Privateers about the naughty salvagers that would follow them around in cloaked MWD destroyers and "steal" "their" loot. I didn't need a cloaked mwding anything. I'd just float right next to whoever they were shooting then yoink it out and warp off. :D - - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - - If you think I'm awesome, say BOOO BOOO!! - Ductoris Neat look what I found - Kreul Hey, my marbles
Kruel Blunt Force Syndicate	Posted - 2007.09.20 15:43:00 - [6] Originally by: Malcanis The funny thing is, I remember the whine threads by Privateers about the naughty salvagers that would follow them around in cloaked MWD destroyers and "steal" "their" loot. Yeah... because stealing someone's loot without any risk to yourself isn't an exploit, but high sec wardeccing is...
Fester Addams Minmatar	Posted - 2007.09.21 07:40:00 - [7] Originally by: Slate Fistcrunch Fester, I think you have a misunderstanding about the current game mechanics. When a person is ganked as you mention, the wreck belongs to the victim. That means anyone stealing from the wreck gets an aggression timer towards the victim and his / her corporation. And the attacker, well they have a global criminal countdown and now have kill rights granted to the victim. What exactly are you asking for? The looter can be attacked. The attacker can be attacked. The victim is in a pod. I am asking for the possibility that a buddy of the victim can kill the hauler that loots the wreck, be that buddy a corp, gang or alliance one. At present there is no way to get at the hauler as he will fly in, loot the wreck and be off to a station before the victim can respond.
Zachstar	Posted - 2007.09.21 08:32:00 - [8] Edited by: Zachstar on 21/09/2007 08:32:31 Refer to my post in this topic for a solution to this problem. http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=498139&page=11 Take away the loot and insurance you take away the problem.
Ridley Scot Caldari	Posted - 2007.09.21 08:42:00 - [9] When EVE had a problem with super-fast battleships, we had a sticky thread on the top for all pilots to post opinions rather then making new threads all the time. Mods, can we have one of the current threads on this subject at the top as well?
Chavu Ganja Labs	Posted - 2007.09.21 08:45:00 - [10] Originally by: Fester Addams Originally by: Slate Fistcrunch Fester, I think you have a misunderstanding about the current game mechanics. When a person is ganked as you mention, the wreck belongs to the victim. That means anyone stealing from the wreck gets an aggression timer towards the victim and his / her corporation. And the attacker, well they have a global criminal countdown and now have kill rights granted to the victim. What exactly are you asking for? The looter can be attacked. The attacker can be attacked. The victim is in a pod. I am asking for the possibility that a buddy of the victim can kill the hauler that loots the wreck, be that buddy a corp, gang or alliance one. At present there is no way to get at the hauler as he will fly in, loot the wreck and be off to a station before the victim can respond. It's a moot point, Fester Addams. I know you want a chance to get your loot back or shoot at the hauler(heck I would too), but that won't happen and not because of game mechanics. As other people have said, the suiciders will have a hauler near you and loot + warp off/dock before your pod can warp away. Unless you were expecting a suicide(and no one ever does) there is no way you will get a shot at your loot and no amount of changes will fix that. Your theoretical buddy has a chance to ninja loot your wreck just as much as enemy ninja looters do. This thread gets the *SEAL OF BALANCE*
Fester Addams Minmatar	Posted - 2007.09.22 21:50:00 - [11] Originally by: Chavu It's a moot point, Fester Addams. I know you want a chance to get your loot back or shoot at the hauler(heck I would too), but that won't happen and not because of game mechanics. As other people have said, the suiciders will have a hauler near you and loot + warp off/dock before your pod can warp away. Unless you were expecting a suicide(and no one ever does) there is no way you will get a shot at your loot and no amount of changes will fix that. Your theoretical buddy has a chance to ninja loot your wreck just as much as enemy ninja looters do. This thread gets the *SEAL OF BALANCE* I think you aer missunderstanding me, I know that the victim is in a POD and and unable to do anything apart from possibly lock the looting industrial. I know the attacker is in a POD (or should be) and unable to do anything about the situation. My wish is for escorts to have effect. So you have a hauler carrying the loot. It gets popped, fine, **** happens. The ods of the loot industrial being withing scoop range is however very small and thus the escort would be able to, if they act decicivelly, engage the looting ship and deny the pirates their gain. True, it would have a very small effect on the suiciding however every bit helps. The risk vs reward equation is way out of whack for suicide pirating.
Tortun Nahme Minmatar Heimatar Services Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.09.22 21:55:00 - [12] fester, it already works the way you are describing, the moment someone touches that can (takes stuff out) your corp gets agro, but it HAS to be a corp mate 1987.08.31 00:29:09 Combat Your Smooth Criminal perfectly strikes Annie, wrecking for A Crescendo.

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