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Transversal question

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Donde Esta	Posted - 2007.09.21 18:18:00 - [1] I see lots of conversations about interceptors and maximizing their effectiveness by using transversal velocity and manually flying. Can someone explain this to me? I know how to speed up / slow down (although i assume I should be going max speed, all the time in pvp) and double click in space to follow a path. What else am I missing? Thanks.
Illyria Ambri RennTech	Posted - 2007.09.21 18:57:00 - [2] Edited by: Illyria Ambri on 21/09/2007 18:59:31 There is a nice CCP page here somewhere.. Oh I found it.. its in the player guide that has a nice explination of transversal. In short. You are directly behind a fleeing ship.. you shoot straight at them and hit them you have essentiually zero transversal You are flying straight and another ship is flying perpendicular to you. In ww2 this was called "crossing the T" Picture it like a T.. you are flying up the stalk and your enemy is crossing in front of you. If you aim fdirectly at him.. you will miss due to the time it takes for the round to reach, he has already gone past where the round was aimed at. In FPS you have to lead your target and shoot in front of him where he WILL be when the bullets get there. In eve as we have no way to lead.. our equivilant is tracking. If his transveral is larger then your tracking then you will miss quite alot if not always. The larger the turrets on your ship.. the slower they turn. The faster the enemy ship is.. the less chance the turrets can keep an aim on them. Transversal is the EVE way of telling you how much of a "lead" you would need. If your turret tracking isn't equal to their transversal, then they can fly faster then you can shoot and all your shots will pass behind them dealing zero damage. If your turrets have higher tracking then the enemy ships transversal then you can hit them. Real world examples would include trying to aim a gun at moving target. Better.. you are the outfielder and you just picked up a base hit.. the other team has someone running fast for home plate. Do you try to hit him wiht the ball? No, because you would miss as the player is no longer where he was when you aimed and threw the ball. So you aim in front of him "Leading" and throw the ball to where he will be. In this case you throw to the catcher as both the runner and your ball will intersect there. So the higher the ships speed the higher the transversal will be. The more accute the angle the ship is in relation to yours.. then lower his transversal will be. This is why intys and fast ships prefer to zigzag rather then hitting the "approach" button as if they come straight at you.. their transversal is almost zero and your guns have no problemss tracking them. If they are zigzagging back and forth.. your guns may not be able to spin fast enough hence you will miss. The if they are orbiting you close and fast.. unless you got small turrets you will miss. if they are orbiting you at 40km fast.. you might hit them as the transversal is less as the distance removes some of the "speed" that the turrets must spin/track at to correctly aim a shot. ------------ This is not War... This is pest control - Dalek Sek Here come the Drums!! - The Master
Donde Esta	Posted - 2007.09.21 19:21:00 - [3] So to keep it short - I need to orbit closely and with high speed, rather than far away and slower (if I'm the interceptor). I also need to approach with odd angles, rather than direct flight paths. Thanks for the info, makes sense now.
Illyria Ambri RennTech	Posted - 2007.09.21 20:24:00 - [4] Originally by: Donde Esta So to keep it short - I need to orbit closely and with high speed, rather than far away and slower (if I'm the interceptor). I also need to approach with odd angles, rather than direct flight paths. Thanks for the info, makes sense now. Correct.. the goal is as close as possible and as fast as possible. Orbiting at 1km at 5000m/s isn't really possible with a vanilla ship. You will need a combination of speed and agility. AB or MWD for speed (overdrives are good also) Istabs for agility Nano's for a lighter ship making it faster and more agile. Set an orbit and turn on your MWD.. if you cannot stay at max speed.. then increase your orbit till you find the range that does allow max speed. ------------ This is not War... This is pest control - Dalek Sek Here come the Drums!! - The Master
NightF0x Gallente Chicken Coup Raiders	Posted - 2007.09.22 03:36:00 - [5] Personally I use Angular Velocity because that's what your weapons use when determining if you can hit the target or not. And you can display Angular Velocity directly in the overview (along with transversal). If your target exceeds the angular velocity of your guns, you might as well turn them off because you will never hit them.
angrygallente	Posted - 2007.09.22 10:48:00 - [6] Quote: Set an orbit and turn on your MWD.. if you cannot stay at max speed.. then increase your orbit till you find the range that does allow max speed. If you're using a MWD against turrets... the enemy hit rate is almost exactly the same as if you didn't have it turned on, due to the signature radius increase. It'll be worse if you can't maintain the same distance due to turn rate. MWDs are basically only for closing or keeping distance, or evading missiles. Of course... closing distance is a great way of increasing potential evade...
Illyria Ambri RennTech	Posted - 2007.09.22 17:32:00 - [7] Edited by: Illyria Ambri on 22/09/2007 17:34:37 Originally by: NightF0x Personally I use Angular Velocity because that's what your weapons use when determining if you can hit the target or not. And you can display Angular Velocity directly in the overview (along with transversal). If your target exceeds the angular velocity of your guns, you might as well turn them off because you will never hit them. Funny.. according to EVE and modern real life combat physics... you are incorrect EVE tracking model and explaination ------------ This is not War... This is pest control - Dalek Sek Here come the Drums!! - The Master
Falkrich Swifthand	Posted - 2007.09.24 13:37:00 - [8] Edited by: Falkrich Swifthand on 24/09/2007 13:38:55 It divides transversal velocity by the distance between you, which gives angular velocity. Angular velocity is measured in rads/sec, unsurprisingly the same unit as your gun's tracking. EDIT: Also for some reason the tracking is multiplied in, you CAN hit someone who is orbiting you faster than your guns tracking if the gun's sig resolution is low enough and their sig radius is high enough.
Marine HK4861 Caldari Seoltachd	Posted - 2007.09.24 16:23:00 - [9] Originally by: Falkrich Swifthand A real weapons model would have: How accurately you can identify the target's location (sig resolution, but per ship not gun) How accurately you can predict the target's future location (no current stat) How accurately your guns can aim at that location (no current stat) Flight speed of projectiles (affects how far ahead you have to predict their movement), and if this varies randomly, by how much (no current stat) The guns' scatter (no current stat) How quickly your guns can track the target (tracking) A real combat model would also have turret fire arcs and tracking calculations performed on relative ship positions, both of which have been disregarded for game balance. By the way, isn't the accuracy of the weapon on a target (your third point) defined by the the turret's signature resolution?
pandymen Caldari Red Dwarf Mining Corporation space weaponry and trade	Posted - 2007.09.25 19:49:00 - [10] Illyria, don't jump down that guy's throat when he's basically right. Angular velocity is essentially the proportion of a circular arc that something is traveling (with 2pi radians being a circle). Hence, if the angular velocity of a ship is faster than the tracking speed of guns, they cannot keep up entirely with the ship (think all those action movies where you see a guy running like mad getting shot at by a helicopter with machine guns that can't quite catch the guy because the heli is turning too slowly). Granted, there are other factors, but that's basically lives up to real world physics.
Illyria Ambri RennTech	Posted - 2007.09.25 20:10:00 - [11] Originally by: pandymen Illyria, don't jump down that guy's throat... I guarantee, you haven't seen nothing yet if thats your idea of me jumping down someones throat ------------ This is not War... This is pest control - Dalek Sek Here come the Drums!! - The Master

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