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Juan Andalusian
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Posted - 2004.02.18 10:16:00 -
[31]
 Quote:
More importantly, you go to all this trouble to make a tech 2 component and it isn't even that fantastic compared to tech 1.
Thank god it is that way.
P.S. Jimbo is so right i feel like hugging him.
**Pain is meant to be felt** |
FZappa
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Posted - 2004.02.18 10:40:00 -
[32]
first , two thumbs up for PIL for selling tech2 at
reasonable profit margins .
second , as i offered the guy who sold me my heatsinks ,
should producers be willing i will be more then happy
to do a 2 for 1 byom deal .
stop selling for isk for a while , and take only byom
orders . this will force those who have stockpiles and
want ur item to release some of their stock .
at the current components supply and prices however ,
the new interceptor bps are soon to become worthless .
not many people will be willing to pay a cruiser worth
of isk for a frigate :S
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Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2004.02.18 11:15:00 -
[33]
Quote:
Jim, since you're obviously hell-bent on an entirely unjustifiable misconception, I'll just give up arguing a point you're not prepared to accept.
Suffice it to say you're wrong, at elast on just about everything you seem to think you know about us.
But that, I guess, is indeed your priviledge.
I'm not dissing your corp, or your prices or anything as I know little about either.
But dude, look, tech II isn't supposed to be for simple mass manufacturing, these are cutting edge technologies which exceed not only the tech I modules, but most of the meta modules as well (you know the modules that you must spend tons of ISK or kill NPC battleships for not the risk free blueprint owners such as yourself).
Why should they be trivial to be mass manufacture? So you can reap huge profits because you own the blueprints? You say you don't want the miner II debacle all over again but that is exactly what you are asking for, perhaps you just don't realize it?
I like tech II how it is, tech II isn't the replacement for tech I, it's not supposed to be an upgrade to the 'market', it's supposed to be more difficult to produce tech II technology, if it's too hard for you or you aren't willing to pay the price, then don't sell it.
Someone else will get the same blueprints, eventually.
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ROBBLE ROBBLE |
Nicholas Marshal
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Posted - 2004.02.18 11:29:00 -
[34]
There are some tech II components on sale in Gehi.
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Raem Civrie
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Posted - 2004.02.18 12:24:00 -
[35]
First of all, don't expect this to be easy. I kinda get the feeling that alot of people that won in the lottery thought "w000t! INSTAPROFITS!". Now, instead of actually scouring the market, try finding individual suppliers. For example, I hoard all my techII items for the sole reason that I don't believe in selling them on the normal market. Hell, use the incentive and set up a trading hub for techII items somewhere in Yulai. Contact other BP owners and get them into the whole deal. Then start advertising it to people that do agent missions.
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Machiavelli7
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Posted - 2004.02.18 12:27:00 -
[36]
Firstly I'd like to thank PIL for a considered approach on how to produce and sell tech2 ships.
I am a potential customer of yours, as i intend to purchase a Gallente interceptor at some point, i must point out that i have no interest in doing so until i've got the skills necessary. I'm guessing a lot of people are similarly-minded, so you should see increased interest in them as the weeks go by.
I'm reasonably content with the way BPs and components are dropped into the game, however, the lack of volume in the components market is a cause for concern.
It strikes me that the vast majority of people are hoarding components (i'm sure CCP feel there is enough components in-game, or they'd just tweak the amount agents release via missions).
People, i presume, are doing this because they believe the components will be worth a lot more at some point. I'm surmising it's the same people who are quite happy to sell a stockpile of minerals when they think they're getting a good price (e.g. nocx at 290).
So this is an area that needs to be addressed. Perhaps if the NPC corps released SMALL amounts of components on a regular basis, that would set the price points for the various components (e.g. Duvolle Labs puts on the market 5 items of each Gallente tech2 construction component a day at 2x mineral cost of the item). This would demonstrate to players what the rough prices should be for these items, yet there would not be enough dropped in by the NPC corp to make tech2 manufacture a doddle.
This is just a quick attempt by me to think of a solution - on the whole i think it's working pretty well, but i'm concerned about the pricing. I don't see the value of a tech2 AB for 5mill when a named tech1 AB which is only marginally worse sells for 1.5mill.
And Kabara, save me an Ares, i'll be placing an order with you soon (tm) 
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Nemesis I
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Posted - 2004.02.18 13:43:00 -
[37]
Edited by: Nemesis I on 18/02/2004 13:44:16
Im with Jim on this one - I think your wrong with the approach to sell Tech II to everyman and is dog.
I agree though that the quantities of components do seem ridiculously high, I would reduce the the tech II items and up the morphite requirements, kills two birds with one stone then (no pun at the crow intended there)
Nem
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Harisdrop
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Posted - 2004.02.18 15:01:00 -
[38]
The real issue here is not getting a bp. But what happens afterwards. I feel that the market will adjust. Its not simple buy make anymore. Its a co-operation. There are many parts to be made. Price of the item is not the issue. Its demand. What has to happen is buy orders have to be set by those who are serious about buying. Soo now instead of someone just putting tech II components on the market the buy orders should be filled.
I still think bpo owners should have a place to put bpc on the market. This is only fair. CCP is making it really nutty if they dont.
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Garsh ma it soo cool killing people in there space thingies |
Kabara
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Posted - 2004.02.18 16:19:00 -
[39]
Edited by: Kabara on 18/02/2004 16:21:22
I agree slightly with Jim here. It should be difficult to manufacture tech II items. But what should the difficulty be? For me now it is spending the next three weeks getting my metallurgy skills up to L5 so that I can reserach the BP. My difficulty was also in getting the BP to begin with. It took me time to get Production Efficiency and Industry up to L5. So when T2 was announced I took the time and effort to get my skills to a point where I could use them. Now I have the BP I cannot do much with it. I don't see many other people around with similar skill sets. Having done all this why shouldn't I make a little money? (and at the moment it is "a little money".)
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Femintaki
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Posted - 2004.02.18 17:14:00 -
[40]
Kabara,
I too have undertaken the skill path that you chose - and a slog it was However, I never forget that we are not alone here - after all customers have a similar mountain to climb to fly an interceptor.
I do share some of your frustrations with the components market. But the finished item price can only sensibly be set to reflect the raw material / component prices that you achieve and market forces will ultimately set the right levels throughout all steps of the supply chain.
I wish you well,
Fem
Quote:
Do or do not. There is no try.
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Viga Skuld
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Posted - 2004.02.18 18:39:00 -
[41]
Concerning this discussion... I think I remember correctly that this is part of CCP's plan.
If you donÆt like things now, well then you are going to hate tech 3. I read somewhere in Dev Blog or in CSM that NO Single corp. should be able to Make tech 3 items...
And that corp.Æs would then have to start banding together and/or specialize. Like just making one part of the ship, say engines.
-VÝga Skuld. |
Celt Eireson
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Posted - 2004.02.18 20:07:00 -
[42]
Don't think you'll need to wait till Tech 3 for that to happen :-)
I think I can safely say that production of tech 2 cruisers and battleships will be beyond the capabilities of all but the largest corporations.
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Machiavelli7
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Posted - 2004.02.18 20:22:00 -
[43]
Quote:
Don't think you'll need to wait till Tech 3 for that to happen :-)
I think I can safely say that production of tech 2 cruisers and battleships will be beyond the capabilities of all but the largest corporations.
Indeedy, surely what's been brought in-game is just the tip of the iceberg. The component market as it is, prices are looking astronomical...
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Xavier Cardde
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Posted - 2004.02.19 01:19:00 -
[44]
Tech 1 is baseline so therefore at least 1/3 of people should have to use Tech 1... the Tech 2+ stuff should be rare and hard to make....
I dont see any problems with the current system except the weenie alliance people are whining because they cant corner it to their wishes.
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Kabara
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Posted - 2004.02.19 06:24:00 -
[45]
Quote:
Tech 1 is baseline so therefore at least 1/3 of people should have to use Tech 1... the Tech 2+ stuff should be rare and hard to make....
I dont see any problems with the current system except the weenie alliance people are whining because they cant corner it to their wishes.
Funnily enough I don't want to corner a market. I rather wish there were more bp's out there. The "weenie" alliance people have a right to make money though. Tech 2 stuff is hard to make. As I have said before it just depends on which bit you consider hard. At the moment though it is downright impossible.
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Ertai Vodalion
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Posted - 2004.02.19 08:56:00 -
[46]
The Idea of selling Tech II Components at Mineral Prices + Margin still puts a smile on my face (ev en if the Margin is 100% as in an example above).
Mineral Value + Factory Slot Rental + BP Write Offs + Margin could be a possible Price Calculation IF and only IF the items would be manufacturable.
so .. they are not .. there is a limited supply - and thus the price is set by demand ...
to those asking agent runners to sell the components at mineral value - why don¦t you ask for implants to be sold at mineral value too ?
(try the recycle button - if i remember correctly it¦s 1 mega, 1 zyd, and 1 nocx) - so 30k is a considerable price for a basic implant in your books ....
Either produce at market costs for components, add your margin and work the market or go lock the BP away until someone else does - whining hopefully won¦t improve your situation !
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Femintaki
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Posted - 2004.02.19 10:36:00 -
[47]
Ertai,
No whining from me I assure you - that which you suggest is exactly what Ygdrasil / Sinsela are already doing with the Ares.
Selling the ships for the cost of the materials plus an addition for factory slot rental, resource collection time and a bit of profit is just plain economic sense!
The supply chain is always self balancing as I stated before - if the ships are too expensive no one will buy, if no one buys we do not buy components, if we do not buy components the value of them will fall over time.
As component prices fall so the cost of building ships falls, ships sell cheaper, people buy ships, we buy components . . the neverending cycle.
Best wishes and good luck to you all
Fem
Quote:
Do or do not. There is no try.
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Tar Magen
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Posted - 2004.02.19 12:21:00 -
[48]
Edited by: Tar Magen on 19/02/2004 12:22:12
I don't understand this argument.
Isn't it possible to copy interceptor blueprints? Why not just sell 1 run BPCs and let the buyers draw upon their horded components or scour the market themselves?
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Machiavelli7
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Posted - 2004.02.19 12:27:00 -
[49]
Quote:
Edited by: Tar Magen on 19/02/2004 12:22:12
I don't understand this argument.
Isn't it possible to copy interceptor blueprints? Why not just sell 1 run BPCs and let the buyers draw upon their horded components or scour the market themselves?
Tar, it's much harder manufacturing tech2 items - you need industry 5 and science 5 just for starters. As interceptors will undoubtedly be used by PvP types, i'm not sure they'd have the necessary skill-set to produce 'em themselves.
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Celt Eireson
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Posted - 2004.02.19 12:28:00 -
[50]
Problem is most people can't manufacture Tech 2, each tech 2 bp generally requires two rank 8 skills to manufacture, which themselves need several rank 5 skills.
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JP Beauregard
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Posted - 2004.02.19 17:58:00 -
[51]
Edited by: JP Beauregard on 19/02/2004 18:00:08
Quote:
I don't understand this argument.
Isn't it possible to copy interceptor blueprints? Why not just sell 1 run BPCs and let the buyers draw upon their horded components or scour the market themselves?
Of course you can copy the bp. But research copy time is 500,000. That's 500,000 seconds or 8,333 minutes or nearly 139 hours or almost 6 days for one run, unmodified by skills.
I posted screenshots of the bp more than 10 days ago so people for once had a clue of what they were talking about. Boy, did that help :-) (no offense, plenty of others missed it, too) |
Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2004.02.19 18:22:00 -
[52]
Quote:
Edited by: JP Beauregard on 19/02/2004 18:00:08
Quote:
I don't understand this argument.
Isn't it possible to copy interceptor blueprints? Why not just sell 1 run BPCs and let the buyers draw upon their horded components or scour the market themselves?
Of course you can copy the bp. But research copy time is 500,000. That's 500,000 seconds or 8,333 minutes or nearly 139 hours or almost 6 days for one run, unmodified by skills.
I posted screenshots of the bp more than 10 days ago so people for once had a clue of what they were talking about. Boy, did that help :-) (no offense, plenty of others missed it, too)
The reason it takes so long to make copies is to slow down the BPC market and make people actually sell products.
The current market makes it more profitible to sell blueprint copies than it does actual ships/modules.
Tech II comes hoping to change all that and look whose first in line to whine about it..
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ROBBLE ROBBLE |
Dark Nyte
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Posted - 2004.02.19 18:23:00 -
[53]
Quote:
Edited by: JP Beauregard on 19/02/2004 18:00:08
Quote:
I don't understand this argument.
Isn't it possible to copy interceptor blueprints? Why not just sell 1 run BPCs and let the buyers draw upon their horded components or scour the market themselves?
Of course you can copy the bp. But research copy time is 500,000. That's 500,000 seconds or 8,333 minutes or nearly 139 hours or almost 6 days for one run, unmodified by skills.
I posted screenshots of the bp more than 10 days ago so people for once had a clue of what they were talking about. Boy, did that help :-) (no offense, plenty of others missed it, too)
well if the BP is that hard to copy it does indicate that the rest of the Tech 2 ship should be hard to get too.
Pilkington When i read your post selling the item i was glad you seemed to put it up for a fair price unlike many of the others. one corp making a 50% profit from the ship production (2* component offer)
however i think that you are jumping the gun demanding CCP make construction component BP's, interceptors have been out a couple of weeks? when any new technology comes out in a open market they come out very expense and only those with money to waste who want to look cool in their new machines buy them (no offense to anyone). you can't expect to bebale to produce theses ships and or buy these componets at what you consider a fair price right away (im sure there is a economic term for this period but i don't know what)
Basically wait prices will come down, maybe not to what you want though. Rember the people who are getting the tech2 componets want to make a good profit too. (not many people have the skills for interceptors yet anyway)
Buy the componets and sell the ships for what you have too to make a profit. Plenty of other people aren't millionaires either. And you are still in a better possition to become one than most (including those who get the Tech2 components) and you will get richer.
Or better yet Get intouch with a corp who get lots of Components and missions and do a deal with them. cut them in for part of profit? or make them ships for free if they sell you for good price?
I think Tech2 Items should be expensive!
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Celt Eireson
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Posted - 2004.02.19 22:17:00 -
[54]
Jim
Dont think JP was complaining bout the length of time to copy the bps, just replying to the guy who asked why people didn't sell bpc's if getting components was a problem :-)
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