| Pages: 1 2 :: [one page] |
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Kabara
   |
Posted - 2004.02.17 22:15:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Kabara on 17/02/2004 22:23:43
I have worked hard to get a Tech 2 Ares BP. I've ignored all other temptations and gone for Level 5 skills in all the areas that matter. Now I have an Ares BP I find I'm getting to the point where I can do nothing with it. Why? Because there is nothing to build it with. The many componants required are not available in the right quantities or at a reasonable price. If we were building these ships at the average componant price available on EVE we would be charging 10M plus for them. Yesterday I spent six hours trawling around EVE looking for bits. I found very little.
For Tech 2 to be worthwhile componants must be made available without this sort of hassle. If the bits are not on the general market where are they? Very soon the market will be dry and Tech 2 will die. As I see it the non player corps will have to lead the way by selling componants at reasonable prices. Either that or BP's should be made available.
Early next week Ares production by Pilkington's in Luminaire will cease because we cannot source the componants necessary to build the ships. Even offering Bring Your Own Componant deals are running into trouble as player corps are struggling to find the numbers required. Can some one tell me why so many componants are required to modify such a little ship? If we can't do it now for Interceptors what will happen when the bigger stuff comes along?
GM's/Dev's, I think you have to do something soon.
|
Kozak
|
Posted - 2004.02.17 22:21:00 -
[2]
They need to introduce blueprints of the required components. This will create opportunities for more people to make profit from tech II production.
|
Caeli Maren
|
Posted - 2004.02.17 22:42:00 -
[3]
I disagree with making BPs for them. Half the point of using these components instead of minerals is that even the major manufacturing corps have to outsource some of their resource gathering. If the production corps were able to build the components, then you might as well just use minerals.
If prices for the tech 2 components are really that high, there has to be a reason. Either there IS high demand for Intercepters at 10m+ isk per ship, or people would rather mine for their money instead of running missions. If the manufacturing corps can't sell ships for the cost of components + margin, then they won't buy as much, and the demand will drop. Perhaps as people realize that tech 2 components are worth so much, they will redouble their agent running operations.
I have to say though that if interceptors sell for 10m each, and interceptors->battleships scale like the tech 1 versions do, then the t2 battleships will be only available to major alliances.
|
SaIIy
|
Posted - 2004.02.17 22:49:00 -
[4]
What an interesting post . . just a few days ago one of PIL corporation was giving another corporation a hard time for their pricing and policies on building an interceptor. Then a few days later PIL announced a pending price increase??
As I recall the other corporation handled it very professionally and did not engage in any back swiping or retaliation - just silently got on with marketing their own offer, which while appearing slightly less attractive seems to have been much more sustainable - perhaps they got it right - only time will tell - you certainly have to wonder why they are not here complaining about component shortages??
|
Capn Blood
|
Posted - 2004.02.17 22:55:00 -
[5]
I think half the problem is that so few people want to sell their tech II components because they are hoping to get their own BP via the current "auction system".
They see the high component and tool prices and think they'd rather stockpile against the hope of getting a BP for themselves.
We need either a huge boost in tech II items dropping from missions, or NPCs to start selling the stuff in useful quantities.
When I say huge boost, I mean at least x5 and even better x10.
Either that or we're stuck with lotsa hopeful people stockpiling for themselves.
I know I am 
==============================================
"Trust no man who says to you that 'The ends justify the means' or who says that 'We will do whatever it takes...'.
These men have no honour, and are fit only to be politicians."
The book of Rab
Chapter 1, Verse 3.
============================================== |
Diomorph
|
Posted - 2004.02.17 23:48:00 -
[6]
 Quote:
Either that or we're stuck with lotsa hopeful people stockpiling for themselves.
I know I am
I think youve hit the proverbial nail on the head. Since castor ive stockpiled all my tech 2 components - and i do a lot of agent missions. The thought being that if my R&D agent ever gets off his lazy backside and gives me a BP I actually have enough to manufacture.
But this is the law of supply and demand. If noone sells it costs :(
|
INkog
|
Posted - 2004.02.18 02:24:00 -
[7]
Just a guess, but I think CCP planned this... kinda. Basicly I think that they droped the T2 Comp drops to inflate the price in order to level the playing field with the people whom refined the parts for all that Meg and Zyd pre-patch. In the next few weeks they will drop much more frequently from agents (They have too, period. No way around that). I also predict +3 Implants will drop to 1/2-3/5 of current value to make room for the +4s. The price for +4 implants will level out slightly above current prices, as no one will pay more than 50 mil for a set for much longer. Of course this all depends on +4 implants becomming much more frequent. (++Krull plz)
|
Caleb Ayrania
|
Posted - 2004.02.18 02:56:00 -
[8]
Well how do I best explain this.....
No buy order = no investors
No investors = no playerbased market.
Make buy orders at fair prices, log out when your game time is up, and when you log in you just might have gotten the stuff you wanted..
|
Maxstar
|
Posted - 2004.02.18 03:40:00 -
[9]
Well I know our corp Personals have enough Tech 2 components to build 10 Ares and counting, We never refined and we collect the stuff daily, We are not selling, because We are looking to make money and people are not offering fair prices. And also since we are in the tech II research we will keep them until hell freeze over. That said if you want to build Ares get people running missions the stuff is out there.
Look beyond what you see
|
Kabara
|
Posted - 2004.02.18 06:37:00 -
[10]
Caleb
The buy orders are out there. At a fair price. No one is selling.
What is a fair price anyway?
|
JP Beauregard
|
Posted - 2004.02.18 06:38:00 -
[11]
Edited by: JP Beauregard on 18/02/2004 06:56:59
Quote:
What an interesting post . . just a few days ago one of PIL corporation was giving another corporation a hard time for their pricing and policies on building an interceptor. Then a few days later PIL announced a pending price increase??
As I recall the other corporation handled it very professionally and did not engage in any back swiping or retaliation - just silently got on with marketing their own offer, which while appearing slightly less attractive seems to have been much more sustainable - perhaps they got it right - only time will tell - you certainly have to wonder why they are not here complaining about component shortages??
Sally, I'm sorry to be blunt here but why do you troll when you don't even get the point?
Kabara is addressing a design flaw. I ("giving people a hard time") was addressing a character flaw - greed. And my much more pointed criticim towards "the other corporatuion", dear Sally, bupming alt extrordinaire) focused on the mode by which "the other corporation" obtained their bp. Your misplaced criticism (or shall I say, gloating over a problem you obviously fail to grasp?) conflates all three. How, err, useless.
Straight up from the top: when we obatined the Ares bp, we CHOSE to use it for production. We certainly didn't have to build even one ship. We certainly didn't have to offer any ship we built on the public market. And we have turned people down who wanted to buy because they were *******s (insert any expletive you desire).
Now that we do build the ship, the Ares will continue to be available. You will see it on the market when we can be bothered to run around through 16 regions to find any components, and you can order directly when you have your own components. Get the point? There IS no change of policy or availability. But that issue, like I said, was entirely beside the point that Kabara addressed. Thought I'd repeat that for your benefit.
Kabara, again, is addressing a different issue, an issue which I hope to get some answers for if the following questions does get asked in this week's CSM:
=======================================
"With the release of tech II ship bps and even more module bps, tech II component supply may potentially become the single greatest obstacle to tech II implementation.
Hedging and hoarding keep most of the components off the market and the ones available are generally priced in such a manner, that tech II products can easily become uncompetitive compared to tech I items. While tech I manufacturers don't even have the option to raise their prices if they want to stay in business, tech II manufacturers have no incentive to build items if they need to spend 12 hours a day hunting down small component supplies at competitive prices.
Q: Has CCP given any thought to regulating component supply, e.g. through the introduction of component bps as an alternative to even more tech I manufacturing as the player base is growing, and if so, what are your conclusions?"
=======================================
Perhaps we can use this thread to add some constructive ideas to that suggestion. Anyone without an understanding of economics beyond motivational greed might do well to read something else.
|
Kabara
|
Posted - 2004.02.18 06:41:00 -
[12]
Sa11y
PIL tried their best to set a fair price. At the time we were 3M below our competitor. We based our price on what we expected the market to sell componants at. Sadly that has not come about. Nothing is on the market (except at ridiculously high prices)and no one is selling on buy orders. We are now buying at higher prices than envisioned (where we can). Up until now we have been taking the hit. We cannot sutain that or make a loss on the product.
|
Jim Raynor
|
Posted - 2004.02.18 06:42:00 -
[13]
Shouldn't tech2 be rare and difficult to manufacture? I mean, I thought tech1 was supposed to be the baseline for EVE. It wouldn't make sense for tech2 to completely take over (though I'm sure it will eventually).
Sure it might reach the point where CCP must inject more components into the game, but I really don't want to see tech2 become easy to manufacture.. let's not turn it into the tech1 market..
------
ROBBLE ROBBLE |
JP Beauregard
|
Posted - 2004.02.18 06:55:00 -
[14]
Edited by: JP Beauregard on 18/02/2004 06:59:25
Quote:
Shouldn't tech2 be rare and difficult to manufacture? I mean, I thought tech1 was supposed to be the baseline for EVE. It wouldn't make sense for tech2 to completely take over (though I'm sure it will eventually).
Sure it might reach the point where CCP must inject more components into the game, but I really don't want to see tech2 become easy to manufacture.. let's not turn it into the tech1 market..
Jim, rare and difficult to manufacture, yes, but that is not the problem at all. The problem is not in the manufacturing process but in the supply chain for parts. Imagine an automotive supplies industry that sells pistons at 25,000 $. Are you going to pay that much extra for your car?
And you can't get around the fact that tech II needs to compete with tech I, because you're just as likely to lose a tech II item as you are likely to lose a I item. Torpedoes don't appreciate the difference .-)
PS: Mods, can we get this moved to Ships and Modules, please? Someone on the dev team might actually read it if it got stuck over there.... |
Jim Raynor
|
Posted - 2004.02.18 07:17:00 -
[15]
Quote:
Edited by: JP Beauregard on 18/02/2004 06:59:25
Quote:
Shouldn't tech2 be rare and difficult to manufacture? I mean, I thought tech1 was supposed to be the baseline for EVE. It wouldn't make sense for tech2 to completely take over (though I'm sure it will eventually).
Sure it might reach the point where CCP must inject more components into the game, but I really don't want to see tech2 become easy to manufacture.. let's not turn it into the tech1 market..
Jim, rare and difficult to manufacture, yes, but that is not the problem at all. The problem is not in the manufacturing process but in the supply chain for parts. Imagine an automotive supplies industry that sells pistons at 25,000 $. Are you going to pay that much extra for your car?
And you can't get around the fact that tech II needs to compete with tech I, because you're just as likely to lose a tech II item as you are likely to lose a I item. Torpedoes don't appreciate the difference .-)
PS: Mods, can we get this moved to Ships and Modules, please? Someone on the dev team might actually read it if it got stuck over there....
Okay so CCP makes it simple to obtain tech2 components, and the market is flooded with tech2 items and tech1 becomes obsolete.
Is that how you want it to be?
------
ROBBLE ROBBLE |
Viga Skuld
|
Posted - 2004.02.18 07:33:00 -
[16]
Quote:
Edited by: JP Beauregard on 18/02/2004 06:59:25
Quote:
Shouldn't tech2 be rare and difficult to manufacture? I mean, I thought tech1 was supposed to be the baseline for EVE. It wouldn't make sense for tech2 to completely take over (though I'm sure it will eventually).
Sure it might reach the point where CCP must inject more components into the game, but I really don't want to see tech2 become easy to manufacture.. let's not turn it into the tech1 market..
Jim, rare and difficult to manufacture, yes, but that is not the problem at all. The problem is not in the manufacturing process but in the supply chain for parts. Imagine an automotive supplies industry that sells pistons at 25,000 $. Are you going to pay that much extra for your car?
Well if the car in question could suddenly hover and didn't use fuel cuse of the new pistons... well then lots of pp would pay the extra 25k$ (I couldn't afford it but a surprisingly large group of pp would)
See Tech2 is breakthrough tech... and by introducing the component the DEV's might be trying to stop the insanity that happened with the Miner 2 BP's... Where corps got Isk for nothing... PP were making 4000% profit for each Miner 2 for the first 3-5 weeks.
That is real fun for the corp in question but just not fair for other players...
-VÝga Skuld
The Mad Science Officer. |
JP Beauregard
|
Posted - 2004.02.18 07:36:00 -
[17]
Quote:
Okay so CCP makes it simple to obtain tech2 components, and the market is flooded with tech2 items and tech1 becomes obsolete.
Is that how you want it to be?
1. No manufacturing process is simple. Each such process takes skills, ressources and time.
2. Tech 1 is already obsolete in many sectors. When was the last time you actually looked for a tech I module when you could get a meta item just as easily?
3. Tech I is not only obsolete as far as modules go, it is also suffering from overproduction especially in the ship sector, where new players see ships as the only items that may generate any kind of revenue even though margins are ridiculously low.
4. Tiering tech I and II into different manufacturing branches would help to solve a lot of those issues.
5. Items are there to be used. If they're not available to be used (and lost and replaced), why bother to design them, produce them, market them? |
Jim Raynor
|
Posted - 2004.02.18 07:40:00 -
[18]
Quote:
Quote:
Okay so CCP makes it simple to obtain tech2 components, and the market is flooded with tech2 items and tech1 becomes obsolete.
Is that how you want it to be?
1. No manufacturing process is simple. Each such process takes skills, ressources and time.
2. Tech 1 is already obsolete in many sectors. When was the last time you actually looked for a tech I module when you could get a meta item just as easily?
3. Tech I is not only obsolete as far as modules go, it is also suffering from overproduction especially in the ship sector, where new players see ships as the only items that may generate any kind of revenue even though margins are ridiculously low.
4. Tiering tech I and II into different manufacturing branches would help to solve a lot of those issues.
5. Items are there to be used. If they're not available to be used (and lost and replaced), why bother to design them, produce them, market them?
Like Viga Skuld said, you want Miner II part deux.. churning out easy to make modules that cost little to manufacture and reap in huge profits due to blueprint monopolies.. wow good idea..
Tech II manufacturing should not be trivial. If you want trivial manufacturing, make tech I items.
If you want to buy some tech II components, I can hook you up.
------
ROBBLE ROBBLE |
JP Beauregard
|
Posted - 2004.02.18 07:46:00 -
[19]
Quote:
See Tech2 is breakthrough tech... and by introducing the component the DEV's might be trying to stop the insanity that happened with the Miner 2 BP's... Where corps got Isk for nothing... PP were making 4000% profit for each Miner 2 for the first 3-5 weeks.
So instead of robbing people blind, we are supposed to rob people blind?
Exactly because we witnessed the Miner II scenario and saw it as a disgusting display or corporate and personal greed (and incredible stupidity on the part of consumers), we decided we would price decently and sell to those who would support that position.
If we priced at "market", it wouldn't be fun for anyone. And unless the component supply increases, we won't even reach the 3-week mark of fun for anyone with thse ships. Just as well. We got them if we need them. Too many people don't. Why do I even bother? Right. |
JP Beauregard
|
Posted - 2004.02.18 07:55:00 -
[20]
Quote:
Like Viga Skuld said, you want Miner II part deux.. churning out easy to make modules that cost little to manufacture and reap in huge profits due to blueprint monopolies.. wow good idea..
Jim, open your ears, engage your brain, now read, man, read:
I DO NOT WANT MINER II PART DEUX AND THAT IS ONE REASON I EVEN BOTHER WITH THIS FRIKKIN THREAD.
If you had access to our calculations, you would see that we originaly factored in tech II components at >200% of mineral value (a very handsome margin in manufacturing and certainly not unfair to agent runners who got these supplies as a bonus) and set our margins at the same level as for our line of tech I ships.
Compare that to other interceptor offers out there and you will notice a difference.
Why do we make that difference? Because we want people to have ACCESS to these ships, because we want people to USE them, because we want people to have FUN with them and that means we want people not to go broke when they lose them.
BECAUSE WE DO NOT WANT TO SEE MINER II PART DEUX.
Ever bothered to ask yourself why our pricing for the heat sink II does NOT imitate Miner II history? |
Faux
|
Posted - 2004.02.18 08:07:00 -
[21]
damageable teck 2 components to make teck 2 items.. but the the need to have pirate loot to make each item ( ie 2 nanoelectrical co-processors to make a single item) is a wee bit restrictive.
you have a HUGE list of tech 2 componeents to get only form agent missons to be able a single small teck 2 item..
i have been plaing for 6+ montsh now.. and mainly hunt pirates.. and in all the time i have been playing i have gotten a total of 2 nanoelectircal co-processors in the game. If you are going to add the factor of needing a item of that sort to make the teck 2 item, then make it need the co-processor I instead of the pirate loot only item. And also make the teck 1 items BP available in game to make it where teck 2 is a viable market.. not jsut a dream for the rich or lucky.
Teck 2 already requires a high demed of skill ot make them.. it shoudl not also require higher demands of materials to make too. For example.. a heat sink 2 shoudl require a heat sink I instead of a extruded or a skaadi... ( i do not know the actual requirements, this was jsut an example, not a known requirement.)
anyways.. enough blatherign for now. those that have a braind understand whta i mean.. those that dont will basilcy flame with no clue
|
Judicator
|
Posted - 2004.02.18 08:08:00 -
[22]
I see no reason to infuse more components and tools in EVE at this moment. As Jim said, Tech I is the base of EVE, everything else is rare. This applies to meta modules as well as Tech II. I think that Tech II will be made and in bigger quantities at the "right" price.
Lack of components and tools just kills off the small guy while only annoying the big guys. When it was announced that Tech II would come from agents everyone and their hamster went for it in the hope of striking Miner II gold. I am glad that seems to not be the case.
Instead of keeping your blueprints and moan about how unfair it is and such, sell them to bigger guys willing to put in the time and energy. The BIG'uns(pun intended) got what it takes.
It might not be cheap for the consumer to buy it, but why should it? I think a lot of players are acting like spoiled kids. First there is a lot of moaning at CCP for flooding the market with Tech I. Then lo and behold, moaning starts when people realise it will not be easy to make Tech II parts.
Are you guys ever going to be satisfied?
-------------------------
|
Jim Raynor
|
Posted - 2004.02.18 08:10:00 -
[23]
Quote:
Quote:
Like Viga Skuld said, you want Miner II part deux.. churning out easy to make modules that cost little to manufacture and reap in huge profits due to blueprint monopolies.. wow good idea..
Jim, open your ears, engage your brain, now read, man, read:
I DO NOT WANT MINER II PART DEUX AND THAT IS ONE REASON I EVEN BOTHER WITH THIS FRIKKIN THREAD.
If you had access to our calculations, you would see that we originaly factored in tech II components at >200% of mineral value (a very handsome margin in manufacturing and certainly not unfair to agent runners who got these supplies as a bonus) and set our margins at the same level as for our line of tech I ships.
Compare that to other interceptor offers out there and you will notice a difference.
Why do we make that difference? Because we want people to have ACCESS to these ships, because we want people to USE them, because we want people to have FUN with them and that means we want people not to go broke when they lose them.
BECAUSE WE DO NOT WANT TO SEE MINER II PART DEUX.
Ever bothered to ask yourself why our pricing for the heat sink II does NOT imitate Miner II history?
You still want to trivialize the tech II market, thus turning it into the tech I market, cept with the ability to make better stuff.
You're upset because you can't make profit off the tech II market, which I guess is understandable if you simply went into the tech II market to profit.
But honestly, if you folks churn out tech II like crazy, saturating the market with it, what happens to the folks out there risking their ship killing NPCs for meta modules?
Stop acting like you guys are humanitarians wanting to 'get people access to interceptors' please. You're upset because the profit in tech II isn't what you hoped for.
------
ROBBLE ROBBLE |
Tano
|
Posted - 2004.02.18 08:47:00 -
[24]
My personal view is the mix of minerals and components has been got wrong. If you divided the amount of components needed by 3 or 4 and multiplied the mineral requirements by a range of 5 to 10 (depending on the desired price range) a lot of the problem would be solved. Youi might also have a decent market for those tens of thousands of units of morphite that are currently useless.
|
Jim Raynor
|
Posted - 2004.02.18 09:10:00 -
[25]
i think the problem might be that some of these ships/modules take way too many components to manufacture, i mean, why does a frigate need 40 ion thrusters to build? shouldn't it be more like 2-3?
------
ROBBLE ROBBLE |
Nicholas Marshal
|
Posted - 2004.02.18 09:13:00 -
[26]
I think perhaps if pirate loot drops included the odd tech II component, then we would see more components on the market (I would sell all of mine, for a start).
|
JP Beauregard
|
Posted - 2004.02.18 09:37:00 -
[27]
Quote:
Stop acting like you guys are humanitarians wanting to 'get people access to interceptors' please. You're upset because the profit in tech II isn't what you hoped for.
Jim, since you're obviously hell-bent on an entirely unjustifiable misconception, I'll just give up arguing a point you're not prepared to accept.
Suffice it to say you're wrong, at elast on just about everything you seem to think you know about us.
But that, I guess, is indeed your priviledge. |
JP Beauregard
|
Posted - 2004.02.18 09:43:00 -
[28]
Quote:
Instead of keeping your blueprints and moan about how unfair it is and such, sell them to bigger guys willing to put in the time and energy. The BIG'uns(pun intended) got what it takes.
Thanks for pointing out that you interest in concentration may not be entirely without motive.
I fail to see how selling a bp to a "big guy" so they can gouge consumers does not hurt the small guys but I suppose it's good enough that you're happy with that kind of skewed logic. Goes hand-in-hand with twisting words. Unfair? Anyfrikkinbody ever used that word or concept?
Let's just stop tech II supply entirely. I'm all for it. Got the stuff I need, thanks a bunch. End of story.
JP Beauregard
=== The Pilkington Guides to EVE === |
Joshua Calvert
|
Posted - 2004.02.18 09:45:00 -
[29]
More importantly, you go to all this trouble to make a tech 2 component and it isn't even that fantastic compared to tech 1.
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Judicator
|
Posted - 2004.02.18 10:11:00 -
[30]
Quote:
Thanks for pointing out that you interest in concentration may not be entirely without motive.
I fail to see how selling a bp to a "big guy" so they can gouge consumers does not hurt the small guys but I suppose it's good enough that you're happy with that kind of skewed logic. Goes hand-in-hand with twisting words. Unfair? Anyfrikkinbody ever used that word or concept?
Let's just stop tech II supply entirely. I'm all for it. Got the stuff I need, thanks a bunch. End of story.
I have no hidden agenda Mr. JP. I am a freelancer and I have been so for a very long time. I have no research agent and thus no blueprints. I got components and tools tough, but I am keeping them for now. My pun towards BIG was solely due to the fact that they seem very good at pulling things off and making good deals.
Selling the blueprints to big corporations will most likely "hurt" the small guy, but guess what, EVE is about power. Power is attained through numbers, military and economical might. I fail to see why "the small guy" should be allowed to stand a chance. I am the small guy yet I adapt and overcome, I don't moan everytime things do not go my way.
Tech I is abundant, meta modules are not super rare. Tech II is rare and will most likely be rare for a long time. IMO this is as it is supposed to be. It will leave a market for meta modules. Those that cannot afford Tech II will user either Tech I or meta modules. Other will have the cash to actually buy Tech II.
I will agree that some items need theur building requirments tuned, but overall I am satisfied with the model implemented. Tech II is rare and requirer a big effort to build and thus only the big and die hard will ever survive and make a profit.
-------------------------
|
Juan Andalusian
|
Posted - 2004.02.18 10:16:00 -
[31]
Quote:
More importantly, you go to all this trouble to make a tech 2 component and it isn't even that fantastic compared to tech 1.
Thank god it is that way.
P.S. Jimbo is so right i feel like hugging him.
**Pain is meant to be felt** |
FZappa
|
Posted - 2004.02.18 10:40:00 -
[32]
first , two thumbs up for PIL for selling tech2 at
reasonable profit margins .
second , as i offered the guy who sold me my heatsinks ,
should producers be willing i will be more then happy
to do a 2 for 1 byom deal .
stop selling for isk for a while , and take only byom
orders . this will force those who have stockpiles and
want ur item to release some of their stock .
at the current components supply and prices however ,
the new interceptor bps are soon to become worthless .
not many people will be willing to pay a cruiser worth
of isk for a frigate :S
-------------------------
|
Jim Raynor
|
Posted - 2004.02.18 11:15:00 -
[33]
Quote:
Jim, since you're obviously hell-bent on an entirely unjustifiable misconception, I'll just give up arguing a point you're not prepared to accept.
Suffice it to say you're wrong, at elast on just about everything you seem to think you know about us.
But that, I guess, is indeed your priviledge.
I'm not dissing your corp, or your prices or anything as I know little about either.
But dude, look, tech II isn't supposed to be for simple mass manufacturing, these are cutting edge technologies which exceed not only the tech I modules, but most of the meta modules as well (you know the modules that you must spend tons of ISK or kill NPC battleships for not the risk free blueprint owners such as yourself).
Why should they be trivial to be mass manufacture? So you can reap huge profits because you own the blueprints? You say you don't want the miner II debacle all over again but that is exactly what you are asking for, perhaps you just don't realize it?
I like tech II how it is, tech II isn't the replacement for tech I, it's not supposed to be an upgrade to the 'market', it's supposed to be more difficult to produce tech II technology, if it's too hard for you or you aren't willing to pay the price, then don't sell it.
Someone else will get the same blueprints, eventually.
------
ROBBLE ROBBLE |
Nicholas Marshal
|
Posted - 2004.02.18 11:29:00 -
[34]
There are some tech II components on sale in Gehi.
|
Raem Civrie
|
Posted - 2004.02.18 12:24:00 -
[35]
First of all, don't expect this to be easy. I kinda get the feeling that alot of people that won in the lottery thought "w000t! INSTAPROFITS!". Now, instead of actually scouring the market, try finding individual suppliers. For example, I hoard all my techII items for the sole reason that I don't believe in selling them on the normal market. Hell, use the incentive and set up a trading hub for techII items somewhere in Yulai. Contact other BP owners and get them into the whole deal. Then start advertising it to people that do agent missions.
|
Machiavelli7
|
Posted - 2004.02.18 12:27:00 -
[36]
Firstly I'd like to thank PIL for a considered approach on how to produce and sell tech2 ships.
I am a potential customer of yours, as i intend to purchase a Gallente interceptor at some point, i must point out that i have no interest in doing so until i've got the skills necessary. I'm guessing a lot of people are similarly-minded, so you should see increased interest in them as the weeks go by.
I'm reasonably content with the way BPs and components are dropped into the game, however, the lack of volume in the components market is a cause for concern.
It strikes me that the vast majority of people are hoarding components (i'm sure CCP feel there is enough components in-game, or they'd just tweak the amount agents release via missions).
People, i presume, are doing this because they believe the components will be worth a lot more at some point. I'm surmising it's the same people who are quite happy to sell a stockpile of minerals when they think they're getting a good price (e.g. nocx at 290).
So this is an area that needs to be addressed. Perhaps if the NPC corps released SMALL amounts of components on a regular basis, that would set the price points for the various components (e.g. Duvolle Labs puts on the market 5 items of each Gallente tech2 construction component a day at 2x mineral cost of the item). This would demonstrate to players what the rough prices should be for these items, yet there would not be enough dropped in by the NPC corp to make tech2 manufacture a doddle.
This is just a quick attempt by me to think of a solution - on the whole i think it's working pretty well, but i'm concerned about the pricing. I don't see the value of a tech2 AB for 5mill when a named tech1 AB which is only marginally worse sells for 1.5mill.
And Kabara, save me an Ares, i'll be placing an order with you soon (tm)
_________________________________
|
Nemesis I
|
Posted - 2004.02.18 13:43:00 -
[37]
Edited by: Nemesis I on 18/02/2004 13:44:16
Im with Jim on this one - I think your wrong with the approach to sell Tech II to everyman and is dog.
I agree though that the quantities of components do seem ridiculously high, I would reduce the the tech II items and up the morphite requirements, kills two birds with one stone then (no pun at the crow intended there)
Nem
|
Harisdrop
|
Posted - 2004.02.18 15:01:00 -
[38]
The real issue here is not getting a bp. But what happens afterwards. I feel that the market will adjust. Its not simple buy make anymore. Its a co-operation. There are many parts to be made. Price of the item is not the issue. Its demand. What has to happen is buy orders have to be set by those who are serious about buying. Soo now instead of someone just putting tech II components on the market the buy orders should be filled.
I still think bpo owners should have a place to put bpc on the market. This is only fair. CCP is making it really nutty if they dont.
--------------------------
Garsh ma it soo cool killing people in there space thingies |
Kabara
|
Posted - 2004.02.18 16:19:00 -
[39]
Edited by: Kabara on 18/02/2004 16:21:22
I agree slightly with Jim here. It should be difficult to manufacture tech II items. But what should the difficulty be? For me now it is spending the next three weeks getting my metallurgy skills up to L5 so that I can reserach the BP. My difficulty was also in getting the BP to begin with. It took me time to get Production Efficiency and Industry up to L5. So when T2 was announced I took the time and effort to get my skills to a point where I could use them. Now I have the BP I cannot do much with it. I don't see many other people around with similar skill sets. Having done all this why shouldn't I make a little money? (and at the moment it is "a little money".)
|
Femintaki
|
Posted - 2004.02.18 17:14:00 -
[40]
Kabara,
I too have undertaken the skill path that you chose - and a slog it was However, I never forget that we are not alone here - after all customers have a similar mountain to climb to fly an interceptor.
I do share some of your frustrations with the components market. But the finished item price can only sensibly be set to reflect the raw material / component prices that you achieve and market forces will ultimately set the right levels throughout all steps of the supply chain.
I wish you well,
Fem
Quote:
Do or do not. There is no try.
|
Viga Skuld
|
Posted - 2004.02.18 18:39:00 -
[41]
Concerning this discussion... I think I remember correctly that this is part of CCP's plan.
If you donÆt like things now, well then you are going to hate tech 3. I read somewhere in Dev Blog or in CSM that NO Single corp. should be able to Make tech 3 items...
And that corp.Æs would then have to start banding together and/or specialize. Like just making one part of the ship, say engines.
-VÝga Skuld. |
Celt Eireson
|
Posted - 2004.02.18 20:07:00 -
[42]
Don't think you'll need to wait till Tech 3 for that to happen :-)
I think I can safely say that production of tech 2 cruisers and battleships will be beyond the capabilities of all but the largest corporations.
|
Machiavelli7
|
Posted - 2004.02.18 20:22:00 -
[43]
Quote:
Don't think you'll need to wait till Tech 3 for that to happen :-)
I think I can safely say that production of tech 2 cruisers and battleships will be beyond the capabilities of all but the largest corporations.
Indeedy, surely what's been brought in-game is just the tip of the iceberg. The component market as it is, prices are looking astronomical...
_________________________________
|
Xavier Cardde
|
Posted - 2004.02.19 01:19:00 -
[44]
Tech 1 is baseline so therefore at least 1/3 of people should have to use Tech 1... the Tech 2+ stuff should be rare and hard to make....
I dont see any problems with the current system except the weenie alliance people are whining because they cant corner it to their wishes.
|
Kabara
|
Posted - 2004.02.19 06:24:00 -
[45]
Quote:
Tech 1 is baseline so therefore at least 1/3 of people should have to use Tech 1... the Tech 2+ stuff should be rare and hard to make....
I dont see any problems with the current system except the weenie alliance people are whining because they cant corner it to their wishes.
Funnily enough I don't want to corner a market. I rather wish there were more bp's out there. The "weenie" alliance people have a right to make money though. Tech 2 stuff is hard to make. As I have said before it just depends on which bit you consider hard. At the moment though it is downright impossible.
|
Ertai Vodalion
|
Posted - 2004.02.19 08:56:00 -
[46]
The Idea of selling Tech II Components at Mineral Prices + Margin still puts a smile on my face (ev en if the Margin is 100% as in an example above).
Mineral Value + Factory Slot Rental + BP Write Offs + Margin could be a possible Price Calculation IF and only IF the items would be manufacturable.
so .. they are not .. there is a limited supply - and thus the price is set by demand ...
to those asking agent runners to sell the components at mineral value - why don¦t you ask for implants to be sold at mineral value too ?
(try the recycle button - if i remember correctly it¦s 1 mega, 1 zyd, and 1 nocx) - so 30k is a considerable price for a basic implant in your books ....
Either produce at market costs for components, add your margin and work the market or go lock the BP away until someone else does - whining hopefully won¦t improve your situation !
|
Femintaki
|
Posted - 2004.02.19 10:36:00 -
[47]
Ertai,
No whining from me I assure you - that which you suggest is exactly what Ygdrasil / Sinsela are already doing with the Ares.
Selling the ships for the cost of the materials plus an addition for factory slot rental, resource collection time and a bit of profit is just plain economic sense!
The supply chain is always self balancing as I stated before - if the ships are too expensive no one will buy, if no one buys we do not buy components, if we do not buy components the value of them will fall over time.
As component prices fall so the cost of building ships falls, ships sell cheaper, people buy ships, we buy components . . the neverending cycle.
Best wishes and good luck to you all
Fem
Quote:
Do or do not. There is no try.
|
Tar Magen
|
Posted - 2004.02.19 12:21:00 -
[48]
Edited by: Tar Magen on 19/02/2004 12:22:12
I don't understand this argument.
Isn't it possible to copy interceptor blueprints? Why not just sell 1 run BPCs and let the buyers draw upon their horded components or scour the market themselves?
|
Machiavelli7
|
Posted - 2004.02.19 12:27:00 -
[49]
Quote:
Edited by: Tar Magen on 19/02/2004 12:22:12
I don't understand this argument.
Isn't it possible to copy interceptor blueprints? Why not just sell 1 run BPCs and let the buyers draw upon their horded components or scour the market themselves?
Tar, it's much harder manufacturing tech2 items - you need industry 5 and science 5 just for starters. As interceptors will undoubtedly be used by PvP types, i'm not sure they'd have the necessary skill-set to produce 'em themselves.
_________________________________
|
Celt Eireson
|
Posted - 2004.02.19 12:28:00 -
[50]
Problem is most people can't manufacture Tech 2, each tech 2 bp generally requires two rank 8 skills to manufacture, which themselves need several rank 5 skills.
|
JP Beauregard
|
Posted - 2004.02.19 17:58:00 -
[51]
Edited by: JP Beauregard on 19/02/2004 18:00:08
Quote:
I don't understand this argument.
Isn't it possible to copy interceptor blueprints? Why not just sell 1 run BPCs and let the buyers draw upon their horded components or scour the market themselves?
Of course you can copy the bp. But research copy time is 500,000. That's 500,000 seconds or 8,333 minutes or nearly 139 hours or almost 6 days for one run, unmodified by skills.
I posted screenshots of the bp more than 10 days ago so people for once had a clue of what they were talking about. Boy, did that help :-) (no offense, plenty of others missed it, too) |
Jim Raynor
|
Posted - 2004.02.19 18:22:00 -
[52]
Quote:
Edited by: JP Beauregard on 19/02/2004 18:00:08
Quote:
I don't understand this argument.
Isn't it possible to copy interceptor blueprints? Why not just sell 1 run BPCs and let the buyers draw upon their horded components or scour the market themselves?
Of course you can copy the bp. But research copy time is 500,000. That's 500,000 seconds or 8,333 minutes or nearly 139 hours or almost 6 days for one run, unmodified by skills.
I posted screenshots of the bp more than 10 days ago so people for once had a clue of what they were talking about. Boy, did that help :-) (no offense, plenty of others missed it, too)
The reason it takes so long to make copies is to slow down the BPC market and make people actually sell products.
The current market makes it more profitible to sell blueprint copies than it does actual ships/modules.
Tech II comes hoping to change all that and look whose first in line to whine about it..
------
ROBBLE ROBBLE |
Dark Nyte
|
Posted - 2004.02.19 18:23:00 -
[53]
Quote:
Edited by: JP Beauregard on 19/02/2004 18:00:08
Quote:
I don't understand this argument.
Isn't it possible to copy interceptor blueprints? Why not just sell 1 run BPCs and let the buyers draw upon their horded components or scour the market themselves?
Of course you can copy the bp. But research copy time is 500,000. That's 500,000 seconds or 8,333 minutes or nearly 139 hours or almost 6 days for one run, unmodified by skills.
I posted screenshots of the bp more than 10 days ago so people for once had a clue of what they were talking about. Boy, did that help :-) (no offense, plenty of others missed it, too)
well if the BP is that hard to copy it does indicate that the rest of the Tech 2 ship should be hard to get too.
Pilkington When i read your post selling the item i was glad you seemed to put it up for a fair price unlike many of the others. one corp making a 50% profit from the ship production (2* component offer)
however i think that you are jumping the gun demanding CCP make construction component BP's, interceptors have been out a couple of weeks? when any new technology comes out in a open market they come out very expense and only those with money to waste who want to look cool in their new machines buy them (no offense to anyone). you can't expect to bebale to produce theses ships and or buy these componets at what you consider a fair price right away (im sure there is a economic term for this period but i don't know what)
Basically wait prices will come down, maybe not to what you want though. Rember the people who are getting the tech2 componets want to make a good profit too. (not many people have the skills for interceptors yet anyway)
Buy the componets and sell the ships for what you have too to make a profit. Plenty of other people aren't millionaires either. And you are still in a better possition to become one than most (including those who get the Tech2 components) and you will get richer.
Or better yet Get intouch with a corp who get lots of Components and missions and do a deal with them. cut them in for part of profit? or make them ships for free if they sell you for good price?
I think Tech2 Items should be expensive!
|
Celt Eireson
|
Posted - 2004.02.19 22:17:00 -
[54]
Jim
Dont think JP was complaining bout the length of time to copy the bps, just replying to the guy who asked why people didn't sell bpc's if getting components was a problem :-)
|
| |
|
| Pages: 1 2 :: [one page] |