| Pages: [1] :: one page |
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |

Jade Mitch
United Coalitions ZADA ALLIANCE
18
|
Posted - 2012.01.21 19:16:00 -
[1] - Quote
Make it faster, so we don't have to spend so much time doing it. Mining is a chore that nobody likes and few people have time for, but it's necessary. The less time we spend doing it the better. The simplest way to reduce the time it takes to mine is to reduce the cycle duration of all mining lasers- reduce it by 90%.
At least test the idea on the server before dismissing it as unbalanced or op. |

Sorana Bonzari
Paradox Collective Choke Point
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.21 19:33:00 -
[2] - Quote
Jade Mitch wrote:Make it faster, so we don't have to spend so much time doing it. Mining is a chore that nobody likes and few people have time for, but it's necessary. The less time we spend doing it the better. The simplest way to reduce the time it takes to mine is to reduce the cycle duration of all mining lasers- reduce it by 90%.
At least test the idea on the server before dismissing it as unbalanced or op.
Ore is the Backbone of what dictates prices for items. This would create a major in-balance in the market place. Yes chanced do need to be made or better ships need to be created but nothing as extreme as you are talking this would crash the market. EVE is like the world in the seance that the more you chance the fundamentals the radical everything else revolves around it. |

Jade Mitch
United Coalitions ZADA ALLIANCE
22
|
Posted - 2012.01.21 19:47:00 -
[3] - Quote
The Eve market is more resilient than you think. The imbalance would be temporary. 1. increased supply of ore/minerals reduces the price of ore/minerals 2. reduced price of ore/minerals increases production of ships and equipment 3. increased supply of ships and equipment reduces the price of ships and equipment 4. reduced price of everything encourages more combat 5. more combat destroys more ships and equipment
And now the market is balanced again with less mining and more combat. |

Feligast
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
976
|
Posted - 2012.01.21 19:50:00 -
[4] - Quote
And here I thought you were going to post somehting like "Give all mining ships a 50% chance of spontaneously exploding upon activating their miners." That would certainly make mining more fun!
As for your OP, no. Entirely too OP. The market is finally close to balanced after nerfing the drone regions, there's no way increasing mined ore by 1000% is going to help anything. |

Jade Mitch
United Coalitions ZADA ALLIANCE
22
|
Posted - 2012.01.22 02:50:00 -
[5] - Quote
Feligast wrote: Entirely too OP.
What exactly would it over-power?
Feligast wrote: The market is finally close to balanced after nerfing the drone regions...
What? The market balances itself within days of any changes to the game.
Feligast wrote: there's no way increasing mined ore by 1000% is going to help anything.
It would reduce the time it takes to mine it. |

Flette
Rosen Association
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.22 03:09:00 -
[6] - Quote
I don't think this would work like you intend it to.
First off, if mining time was reduced by 90%, the price of the minerals would rapidly drop. This would mean that you now have to mine some 10 times longer to make the same ISK. Now you're back where you started, except it now makes even more sense to go do a lvl 4 mission instead of mine. All I see this doing is cause temporary chaos to the marketplace in the shortterm, and in the longterm it just adds more micromanagement to mining.
It doesn't make mining more fun, but now your mining ship fills up 10 times as fast with minerals worth 1/10 as much.
No thanks. |

betoli
Morior Invictus. Velocitas Eradico
14
|
Posted - 2012.01.22 03:22:00 -
[7] - Quote
Jade Mitch wrote:Make it faster, so we don't have to spend so much time doing it. Mining is a chore that nobody likes and few people have time for, but it's necessary. The less time we spend doing it the better.
The simplest way to reduce mining time is to reduce the cycle duration of all mining lasers- by 90%. The overall effect will be be positive. Reduced mining time, reduced mineral prices, reduced ship and equipment prices, more pve and pvp.
This effectively just removes mining from the game. May as well make unlimited minerals available for free.
|

Jade Mitch
United Coalitions ZADA ALLIANCE
22
|
Posted - 2012.01.22 07:23:00 -
[8] - Quote
Flette wrote: First off, if mining time was reduced by 90%, the price of the minerals would rapidly drop. This would mean that you now have to mine some 10 times longer to make the same ISK.
If mineral prices drop by 90%, you would only have to spend the *same* amount of time mining for the usual amount of ISK.
You won't have to mine ten times longer unless prices drop by 99%. I don't really see that happening but, so what if it does? Like you said, it's only temporary. The Eve economy can and will balance itself. |

Jade Mitch
United Coalitions ZADA ALLIANCE
22
|
Posted - 2012.01.22 07:29:00 -
[9] - Quote
betoli wrote: This effectively just removes mining from the game. May as well make unlimited minerals available for free.
Mining can't be removed from the game, it's essential to manufacturing, which is essential to everything else. |

Flette
Rosen Association
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.22 08:19:00 -
[10] - Quote
Jade Mitch wrote: If mineral prices drop by 90%, you would only have to spend the *same* amount of time mining for the usual amount of ISK.
You won't have to mine ten times longer unless prices drop by 99%. I don't really see that happening but, so what if it does? Like you said, it's only temporary. The Eve economy can and will balance itself.
Yeah, good point about the time thing. True, you wouldn't have to spend 10 times as long mining, just the same amount of time. You would though be filling up ships 10 times as fast with materials having 1/10 the value.
I fail to see how that makes anything more fun. In fact, I fail to see how changing nothing but the speed of mining makes it more fun, it seems like, at best, you'd make it less tedious. Except that isn't what would happen - mining would actually take longer (due to filling up ships faster with more worthless minerals)
|

Fondon
Horizon in MOTION
25
|
Posted - 2012.01.22 10:21:00 -
[11] - Quote
Make so that you should take into account a broader spectrum of factors ie mining lasers spontaneously "overheating" or new modules to, say, improve your mining yield if used at the right time. |

elitatwo
Congregatio
7
|
Posted - 2012.01.22 10:40:00 -
[12] - Quote
Mine in a battleship! Since I don't fly flying strip miners I occasionally mine in a Rokh which is a great mining boat, unless you need ice  And who says it is no fun mining? Bring some friends along a do it together. Since you don't really have to pay attention so much you can you the time for chit-chatting and if you still think it is not fast enough, bring an Orca with ganglinks along or use mining drones. Mining drone increase your yield by 350m3 per minute, depending how far you have to send them away. |

NiGhTTraX
Operational Urban Zion Order O.U.Z.O. Alliance
10
|
Posted - 2012.01.22 10:58:00 -
[13] - Quote
Jade Mitch wrote:Make it faster, so we don't have to spend so much time doing it. Mining is a chore that nobody likes and few people have time for, but it's necessary. The less time we spend doing it the better.
The simplest way to reduce mining time is to reduce the cycle duration of all mining lasers- by 90%. The overall effect will be be positive. Reduced mining time, reduced mineral prices, reduced ship and equipment prices, more pve and pvp.
Problem 1 Reduce mining lasers cycle by 90% More minerals dumped on the market Prices drop by 90% to balance the surplus ISK/hour is now back to its normal value, you're not making ISK faster than before
Problem 2 A cycle now takes 5 seconds to complete You fill up your cargo in 10 seconds Warp to station, dump the load, come back You'll have to warp every 1 min -> booooooring
Problem 3 Bot mining will explode
Problem 4 Mineral prices go down in 90% Battleships will now cost 1 mil ISK to produce. Is that really want you want?
Problem 5 Unless the belts are adjusted, one will be depleted in a matter of minutes
As someone already suggested, you might just go ahead seed infinite free minerals on the market. NO. |

Jade Mitch
United Coalitions ZADA ALLIANCE
22
|
Posted - 2012.01.22 11:55:00 -
[14] - Quote
NiGhTTraX wrote: Problem 1 Reduce mining lasers cycle by 90% More minerals dumped on the market Prices drop by 90% to balance the surplus ISK/hour is now back to its normal value, you're not making ISK faster than before
The point is not to make faster ISK, it's to spend less time making the same ISK. But if you're willing to spend the additional time, you have the option of mining more ore. But that's not necessarily going to translate into more ISK if the market is already saturated and prices are near zero. You will have to hold on to your ore/minerals until the price goes up, which it will as manufacturing picks up.
NiGhTTraX wrote: Problem 3 Bot mining will explode
Yes, and the prices of minerals will implode, forcing them to *stop bot mining*. It's no skin off my nose.
NiGhTTraX wrote: Problem 4 Battleships will now cost 1 mil ISK to produce. Is that really want you want?
YES! That too would work as intended.
NiGhTTraX wrote: Problem 5 Unless the belts are adjusted, one will be depleted in a matter of minutes. NO!
They already are deplete in a matter of minutes. Increasing belt capacities would be harmless but decreasing belt capacities would be disastrous. It would defeat all of the benefits of this idea. |

Flette
Rosen Association
1
|
Posted - 2012.01.22 18:56:00 -
[15] - Quote
Well, It seems that this idea is busted, as it won't even accomplish the faster mining that the OP wants, would really damage the market, and encourage more botting vs human mining. Also, it's not more fun.
For mining to be more fun, you need more meaningful interactivity. For instance, maybe some way to designate that the mining laser impact a particular location on the asteroid - something a little like how PI works. This way you have to use your brain ever so slightly when placing the laser impact, and that helps to remove the influence of mining bots.
Alternatively, maybe there could be some function on the module that you need to adjust periodically to keep the mining efficiency up. I don't know what that would be, but for mining to be more fun, the player must be asked to interact more intelligently, not just more often. |

Allison SungLi
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.22 23:15:00 -
[16] - Quote
Faster mining.... No, I think it is fine the way it is If you want to make it faster there are better ways.... different mining ships with better bonus's for the high level miners.
I do think that the use of mining drones is under utilized in-game, would be nice to see a drone miner that can compete with a Hulk.
PvP is the blood of EVE but mining is the backbone, would be nice to see some null sec ore pop up in the mission sites, perhaps this could be used to stimulate more PvP fights in high sec since now there are reasons to fight for it. Before you yell unbalance, I'm not talking about huge amounts of low-sec ore, just enough to make it interesting and perhaps get a high-sec miner interested in heading out to lower sec space. |

Jade Mitch
United Coalitions ZADA ALLIANCE
22
|
Posted - 2012.01.23 03:53:00 -
[17] - Quote
Allison SungLi wrote:Faster mining.... No, I think it is fine the way it is If you want to make it faster there are better ways.... different mining ships with better bonus's for the high level miners.
I have a Hulk, with the best mining lasers, the best mining upgrade modules, and maxed out mining skills. I still can't mine more than ~1.25M ISK per hour from high sec asteroids. With the time I have to actually log in and play Eve, it takes me a couple of weeks to mine the ISK I need to replace a BC with a good setup. That's too harsh by any standard. I'd rather be playing cat and mouse with my corp mates in low sec.
Allison SungLi wrote: I do think that the use of mining drones is under utilized in-game, would be nice to see a drone miner that can compete with a Hulk.
Increase mining drone yield by 1000% too.
Allison SungLi wrote: PvP is the blood of EVE but mining is the backbone, would be nice to see some null sec ore pop up in the mission sites, perhaps this could be used to stimulate more PvP fights in high sec since now there are reasons to fight for it. Before you yell unbalance, I'm not talking about huge amounts of low-sec ore, just enough to make it interesting and perhaps get a high-sec miner interested in heading out to lower sec space.
And what would happen to those low sec asteroids in mission sites when the mission runner completes or quits the mission? ...hmmm Better to have all types of asteroids pop up in all belts according to rarity?
PvP isn't even the blood of Eve because, until the bounty system is updated, there's no monetary incentive for it. |

Grumpy Owly
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
83
|
Posted - 2012.01.23 08:54:00 -
[18] - Quote
Possible way to balance this is to improve yields for mining and reduce the reprocessing values by a small fraction.
Considering that the vast majority of minerals come from reprocessed materials, mining is largely only for self production to obtain minerals needed quickly for free (or with time investment).
The changing of value associated to the mining task would then improve the role and more fun, recognised better as an improtant activity more and as a result of rebalancing other areas of the game potentially having minimal effect to the market.
It would simply provide more needed empowerment to the industrial role imho which is a present lacking in a free market saturated by mission minierals.
Of course it's highly likley that mission minerals will need to and remain still the strongest source to ensure stability in the EvE economy. But any small shift in favour of the miner will help the role.
"All griefers are lazy cowards with the current climate of broken player policing systems." |

Grumpy Owly
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
83
|
Posted - 2012.01.23 08:57:00 -
[19] - Quote
Bot mining should be treated as a seperate issue, as it tends to be used as a speculative problem. Usually exagerted by griefers so they have an excuse to attack soft mining targets.
In prinicple the systems should be provided to enhance the gameplay and botting irradicated as needs. Botting should not be an excuse for others to place limits on people's gameplay.
"All griefers are lazy cowards with the current climate of broken player policing systems." |

Alastar Frost
EVE University Ivy League
12
|
Posted - 2012.01.23 10:18:00 -
[20] - Quote
How about another idea to mining: Create a whole different second way of dealing with mining by adding those 5 ships:
1. The "Belt Eater" 2. 4 "Towing Cruisers" (one for each race)
It would work as the following: The Belt Eater has to go into a kind of "siege mode" to mine, has very short range (5k) but mines asteroids almost instantly. It is a capital like rorqual or orca and needs high sp (like exhumers + orca + additional skills). Now there is no point dropping the ship at a belt, mining the few asteroids in range and waiting out the siege timer, thats where the cruisers come in.
The towing cruisers have a special tractor beam that allows to "tow" or move asteroids. Each race has one and it needs a racial cruiser skill, ore industrial and a tractor skill (low sp requirements). Furthermore, it has some combat capability (like a t1 cruiser without combat boni, but a good slot layout). Those cruisers tow the asteroids to the Belt eater to give him something to chew. The racial differences can be in wepons, slot layout and number/range/velocity of the tractors.
Mining would then look like this: Plant the belt eater, have a group of low sp pilots tow the asteroids to it. There are different strategies for the towing, like building a chain and handing the rocks over or just flying all the way (that diverstity could be encouraged by different boni. Higher velocity and range for the chaining, shorter range but more tractors for the flying).
It would make mining a group effort (which is not necessarily the case today) and you only need one high sp char, the others can be combat pilots joining the op. Furthermore, as the cruisers have some inherent combat capability, they could deal with much more constant belt rat activity (some pew pew to not get bored). |

Syndic Thrass
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
25
|
Posted - 2012.01.23 11:04:00 -
[21] - Quote
Have you taken any kind of History class ever? Does the phrase "just print more money" ring any bells or set off any sirens?
Lets see if you can draw any connections
Reguards, Iskies-mommies-toonies-corpies-goonies 0707 m8m8m8 |

Grumpy Owly
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
87
|
Posted - 2012.01.23 11:30:00 -
[22] - Quote
Minerals dont "print money" as goods only move isk around through their transfer.
And everyone recognises that mining is not the most lucrative profession at all. You can see this from the numerous calls from giefers that its a waste of time.
If you balance increased mineral production from miners with a small reduction to mission reporcessing you effectively dont generate any more minerals either. It just transfers where the assests are, and yet presently the mission minerals are by far the highest input into the EvE economy. So a small shift in "where" not "how many" will seek to bring the mining profession simply in line with others. But of course, that wouldn't be fair would it? 
So the scare mongering propoganda that you goons like to use it pretty moot, imho.
"All griefers are lazy cowards with the current climate of broken player policing systems." |

Jade Mitch
United Coalitions ZADA ALLIANCE
22
|
Posted - 2012.01.23 15:41:00 -
[23] - Quote
Economies don't run on bank credit, they run on energy, which comes from food, oil, coal, gas etc.. As long as cheap energy is plentiful to an economy, fractional reserve banking systems will appear to successfully drive markets. But it's just a facade. When energy is scarce, credit doesn't work anymore.
"With food and fuel in short supply, prices are doubling each day in Zimbabwe." ...go figure.
Minerals support the Eve economy the same way energy supports the real world economy, it's not like bank credit.
...class dismissed |

Valei Khurelem
204
|
Posted - 2012.01.23 17:40:00 -
[24] - Quote
Yeah, I suggested doing something like this awhile ago, I approve and I'm sure all industrialists would, but anyone else who does combat etc. seems to think it's an awful idea even though they all get ISK really easily compared to us.
Mining is torture at times, I think all pure combat folks should be forced to do mining just for an hour so they know exactly what we go through.
"don't get us wrong, we don't want to screw new players, on the contrary. The core problem here is that tech 1 frigates and cruisers should be appealing enough to be viable platforms in both PvE and PvP." -á - CCP Ytterbium |

Amaroq Dricaldari
Total Annihilation. Pandorum Invictus
13
|
Posted - 2012.01.26 00:43:00 -
[25] - Quote
Let's see...
- Reduce Mining Laser Duration by X% - Reduce Cap Usage by Y% - Reduce Ore Yield by Z% - Add 'Mixed' Asteroids. - Add 'sweetspots' that are denser. You would need to aim the mining laser to get a better yield. - Add 'dryspots' to compensate for the addition of 'sweetspots'. 'Dryspots' are the exact opposite of 'Sweetspots', you have to aim your laser to avoid them if you want the Optimal Mining Yield. Obviously you would have to find a way to do this that would outsmart your average Macro-Miner. - Make new Blueprints for more items to put minerals in higher demand, helping to increase the price slightly. - Add new ISK Sinks and Faucets to help stabilize the economy. This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine. |

Jade Mitch
United Coalitions ZADA ALLIANCE
23
|
Posted - 2012.01.26 03:56:00 -
[26] - Quote
Amaroq Dricaldari wrote: - Reduce Cap Usage by Y% - Reduce Ore Yield by Z% - Add 'Mixed' Asteroids. - Add 'sweetspots' that are denser. You would need to aim the mining laser to get a better yield. - Add 'dryspots' to compensate for the addition of 'sweetspots'. 'Dryspots' are the exact opposite of 'Sweetspots', you have to aim your laser to avoid them if you want the Optimal Mining Yield. Obviously you would have to find a way to do this that would outsmart your average Macro-Miner. - Make new Blueprints for more items to put minerals in higher demand, helping to increase the price slightly. - Add new ISK Sinks and Faucets to help stabilize the economy.
Reducing cap usage is a great idea, hadn't thought about it. Reducing yield undermines the whole point of reducing duration- pointless. Mixed asteroids with sweet and dry spots sound great but complicated. There is no need to change BPs or manipulate the market. Prices should be as low as possible. |

alienmind
Working Dog Ltd. Holdings
1
|
Posted - 2012.01.26 05:20:00 -
[27] - Quote
Jade Mitch wrote:Make it faster, so we don't have to spend so much time doing it. Mining is safe and essential to the Eve economy but, it is an unpleasant chore for players who would rather be helping their buddies win wars. The simplest way to reduce mining time is to reduce the cycle duration and capacitor consumption of all mining lasers.
The Eve market will automatically adjust itself to this change. When the supply of something goes up, the price goes down. When the supply of something goes down, the prices goes up. The supply of minerals drives the Eve economy the same way energy drives the real-world economy.
1. Increasing the production of minerals will reduce the price of minerals. 2. Reducing the price of minerals will increases the production of ships and equipment. 3. Increase the supply of ships and equipment will reduce the prices of ships and equipment.
To allow manufacturing to keep up with the increased supply of minerals, manufacturing time for all BP should be reduced as well.
Another couple of source of minerals comes from reprocessing and scrap metal processing, which are useful but undermines the mining industry and reverse the natural flow of energy from mining to manufacturing to the Eve market. At the same time, the increased sales of ships will increase the demand for rigs. So, to arbitrate the situation, I propose that reprocessing and scrap metal processing be changed to yield salvage materials rather than minerals. How is this supose to by fun from mining that we hawe right now ? |

Jade Mitch
United Coalitions ZADA ALLIANCE
23
|
Posted - 2012.01.27 00:38:00 -
[28] - Quote
alienmind wrote: How is this supposed to buy fun from mining that we don't have right now?
The point is to expedite mining, not to make it more fun. |

Shiroi Ookami
Wolfsbrigade
1
|
Posted - 2012.01.27 01:55:00 -
[29] - Quote
u want to expedite it then u need tech 3 ships or something :) more gravimetric sites in high sec the larger the better, and the boost for miners was already given by providing them with tech 2 mining links which ones were totally great :) And as lots of miners in this thread pointed out the cycle duration reduction is pointles you make even more hesal about mining, in fact people are moving to ice just cuz of bigger cycle duration les chores and semi afk mining was always and always an option these why it is passive isk making while watching a move or reading a book. |
| |
|
| Pages: [1] :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |