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Fuse
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Posted - 2004.02.18 08:36:00 -
[1]
Give it up already. I swear most of us are so frustrated with this half arse research deployment. Some corps get all the prints while others get none. Were you not supposed to release the multiple research project skills? When are you going to release the prints? Are you going to release it them a week before reverse engineering is released. It is getting harder and harder to be civil about this. Wake up please! Personally I feel ripped off and mislead here.
0.o It's not you... no wait it is you. |
Nicholas Marshal
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Posted - 2004.02.18 09:03:00 -
[2]
ITS RANDOM. ITS A LOTTERY.
In theory, one corp could get ALL the BPs. Not everyone will get a BP - you have no divine right to one.
All you have done, is get a ticket (or lots of tickets) for the lottery.
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Shoopy
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Posted - 2004.02.18 09:43:00 -
[3]
HA HA another whiner 
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Jowen Datloran
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Posted - 2004.02.18 09:46:00 -
[4]
This is the way it should be imo.
Accept, adapt, improve.
----------------
What's a rumor on page one is a fact on page two |
Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2004.02.18 09:58:00 -
[5]
Worry less about the bp, worry more about the components needed.
I've only got something like 600 Caldari Starship Engineering Research Points but it's 600 more than I had on Monday 
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
DREAMWORKS
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Posted - 2004.02.18 10:05:00 -
[6]
Its going to slow, there should be more bp's released. Also the components should be handled yea. The current playerbase cannot keep up with the current demand of the components.
__________________________
http://www.nin.com/visuals/thtf_hi.html |
Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2004.02.18 10:08:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Joshua Calvert on 18/02/2004 10:19:41
You don't think it's REALLY random, do you?
All the people who got the bp's are GM's or GM's wives!!!!
/me puts on apron and goes to make Tomb's supper
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Skaz
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Posted - 2004.02.18 10:17:00 -
[8]
Yes the main problem in my opinion is the rather slow rate of release (seemingly so)
Now where's my supper Joshua! 
"No, I'm not alt.....even if I have been in Pator Tech School for 2 years..." |
Psy Corp
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Posted - 2004.02.18 10:19:00 -
[9]
the problem is probably loads of tech 2 is out and we just dont know it 
people keep it to them selfs 
I Have The Power Of The Mighty Lo.0lipop..
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Nicholas Marshal
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Posted - 2004.02.18 10:20:00 -
[10]
Yes, that is right. People always assume that everyone who gets tech II will sell it.
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Fuse
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Posted - 2004.02.18 10:29:00 -
[11]
 Quote:
ITS RANDOM. ITS A LOTTERY.
In theory, one corp could get ALL the BPs. Not everyone will get a BP - you have no divine right to one.
All you have done, is get a ticket (or lots of tickets) for the lottery.
That is total bull. My character is just as competent as another. Just because my luck is bad does not mean I should not get one. CCPs system is flawed. I don't have a Devine right but this random stuff is lame. It is like saying all the major companies in the world just get lucky when they do research and development.
0.o It's not you... no wait it is you. |
Azimov
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Posted - 2004.02.18 10:48:00 -
[12]
I felt the same way 2 days ago, and moaned hard for ages to anyone who would listen in corp channel, 17k research points and no bp, with the agent using up around half hours gemplay a day to service him, then i get hom from work yesterday and the magical mail was ther in my mailbox and im now the owner of a Claw interceptor bp, so try a damn good moan, worked for me 
www.tokyotoystore.co.uk
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Sahshioh
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Posted - 2004.02.18 10:50:00 -
[13]
Fuse this is a game, let it go. You can always buy off the tech 2 blueprints from other people if u enjoy mining so much...
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Fuse
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Posted - 2004.02.18 10:55:00 -
[14]
Quote:
I felt the same way 2 days ago, and moaned hard for ages to anyone who would listen in corp channel, 17k research points and no bp, with the agent using up around half hours gemplay a day to service him, then i get hom from work yesterday and the magical mail was ther in my mailbox and im now the owner of a Claw interceptor bp, so try a damn good moan, worked for me
I just want CCP to fix it so there is a cap on the bloody research. I want to move my research with all the points and I want a guaranteed print at a certain level of research points. I am glad you got a print but really if I got an interceptor print I would turn it down. The damn thing is a frigate with limited usage .
0.o It's not you... no wait it is you. |
Rodj Blake
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Posted - 2004.02.18 10:55:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Rodj Blake on 18/02/2004 11:01:16
Quote:
It is like saying all the major companies in the world just get lucky when they do research and development.
Actually, a lot of major scientific and technological discoveries have been made while trying to solve a completely different problem.
And a lot of things have been invented by people working for themselves rather than large corporations (the clockwork radio and Dyson vaccuum cleaner spring to mind).
Conversely, a lot of individuals and companies in real life work on problems for years with no result, only to be upstaged by a newcomer in the field.
Dolce et decorum est pro imperator mori |
Azimov
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Posted - 2004.02.18 10:59:00 -
[16]
you would turn down a bp that i have already been offered 200mill for you sir are *****ers.
www.tokyotoystore.co.uk
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Azimov
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Posted - 2004.02.18 11:00:00 -
[17]
hey how come c r a c k e r s is a naughty word
www.tokyotoystore.co.uk
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StoreSlem
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Posted - 2004.02.18 11:00:00 -
[18]
The system is very nice, as everyone who gets a BP have their research points removed, thus increasing the chances of everyone else to get the next bp.
The main problem is that they are released too slow, so that the whiners / winners ratio is all askew.
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Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2004.02.18 11:02:00 -
[19]
C R A C K is the n0rty word.
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Fibrith Alcarin
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Posted - 2004.02.18 11:07:00 -
[20]
Quote:
It is like saying all the major companies in the world just get lucky when they do research and development.
Actually, luck and coincidence is involved in research and development. The best inventions were made by accident, just check the history books |
Burga Galti
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Posted - 2004.02.18 11:22:00 -
[21]
Quote:
The main problem is that they are released too slow, so that the whiners / winners ratio is all askew.
It's probably not that askew. It's just on forums like these you never hear the people who have won, only those who think they should have won.
Tales from the EVE Cluster |
Skaz
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Posted - 2004.02.18 11:28:00 -
[22]
Quote:
Quote:
It is like saying all the major companies in the world just get lucky when they do research and development.
Actually, luck and coincidence is involved in research and development. The best inventions were made by accident, just check the history books
A life saving antibiotic called penicilin anybody? was discovered becuse the researcher was a sloppy fellow
True, luck should be a factor, but really, look at the math, the Megacorps with everybody doing agent missions are infact numerically more likely to get a print. So that really makes luck THE most important factor for those small corps and freelancers trying to get a print. So don't say it's a bad thing.
"No, I'm not alt.....even if I have been in Pator Tech School for 2 years..." |
Krashtest
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Posted - 2004.02.18 11:48:00 -
[23]
Fuse ,
If they guarantee a bp at X amount of research points , then we will have a tech 1 , everyone has it situation. CCP did what they did to prevent that fluster cluck again.
You do not have to actually do any missions for your research agent to get a bp, so it seems to me you want to have everything right now, thus spoiling the overall gameplay.
Your Mega Afocal Pulse Maser I perfectly strikes Asteroid (Veldspar) [R0ME], wrecking for 798.3 damage.
Your 425mm Railgun I perfectly strikes Guardian Captain, wrecking for 685.9 damage.
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Skarsnik
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Posted - 2004.02.18 11:54:00 -
[24]
Quote:
The current playerbase cannot keep up with the current demand of the components.
I've never heard of problems with keeping up with components. My corp has tons of the stuff as we didn't refine while it had Mega and Zyd in it.
But if theres a shortage I think I may have to put premium prices on it 
If anyones willing to pay give me an EVEmail
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Astrid Tron
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Posted - 2004.02.18 11:57:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Astrid Tron on 18/02/2004 11:57:55
It is very wise of CCP to take it slow, as to prevent disaster. If first the market is flooded, as happened with tech 1, there is no turning back. Releasing in small amounts and then observing what happens to the competition, is the right way to do it.
Quote:
It is getting harder and harder to be civil about this.
I believe it is a limitation in your personality or perception that is the cause of this, and not the flow of T2 BP's. Same narrowminded and selforiented world-view, has caused whining in other patients.
---------------------------------------------
When you have to kill a man, it takes nothing to be polite |
Fuse
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Posted - 2004.02.18 12:09:00 -
[26]
Quote:
Fuse ,
If they guarantee a bp at X amount of research points , then we will have a tech 1 , everyone has it situation. CCP did what they did to prevent that fluster cluck again.
You do not have to actually do any missions for your research agent to get a bp, so it seems to me you want to have everything right now, thus spoiling the overall gameplay.
I'm just throwing the idea out there. I hope you agree that this is moving too slow. I have a research and development officer with around 13000 RPs he has been at this since this started and is really frustrated with this. The major beef I have here is the speed of the release. What is going to happen when we finally get good Tech 2 BPs released and reverse engineering is just around the corner? What I want CCP to do is concentrate more on the content and not rely on a slow release of Tech 2 and allow regular agents to give away an occasional limited tech 2 bpc. They claimed Tech 2 is released. Release it make the game come to life and move on to content.
0.o It's not you... no wait it is you. |
sutty
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Posted - 2004.02.18 13:07:00 -
[27]
dunno if this counts but, one of our guys got Tracking Enhancer II Bp with only 19 rp and a crappy level 1 agent.
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Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2004.02.18 13:09:00 -
[28]
Quote:
dunno if this counts but, one of our guys got Tracking Enhancer II Bp with only 19 rp and a crappy level 1 agent.
oooooooh, burn!
I'd be gutted if I was some research agent long-time ho with 25k rp *lol*
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
LargeNuts
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Posted - 2004.02.18 13:33:00 -
[29]
The original poster is correct. The system is broken. Some corps are getting 2-3 BP's with only a handful of RP, while others with huge amounts of RP get nothing. All of you that are calling him a whiner arent out there busting your a$$es doing the Agent work he is, I'll bet, and you hope and pray the system is not changed precicely because lazy people lke you have as much a chance at getting BP's as Uber Agent runners.
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Winterblink
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Posted - 2004.02.18 13:41:00 -
[30]
Quote:
Its going to slow, there should be more bp's released. Also the components should be handled yea. The current playerbase cannot keep up with the current demand of the components.
That's interesting, I wasn't aware everyone who got a Tech II BP is first running to the forums to report they have it. By what do you make the assumption that not enough are out there?
___winterblink/warp_drive_active/eve_nature_vraie// |
Mimo
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Posted - 2004.02.18 13:45:00 -
[31]
Edited by: Mimo on 18/02/2004 13:52:46
Yeah. I stopped doing R&D missions a few weeks ago.
Don't care about it anyway anymore. I have invested too much time in this ****, and waisted for too much cash for the components the weired R&D agent wants.
I have now over 20k RP's, the corp itself over 150k RP'S.
though we haven't been offered anything.
TO be precise. The system may be fair, but i am not playing lotterie in RL too, since i think it's a wasite of time.
Now i realized, that i have waisted 8 weeks of my playing time and lots of cash to some senseless part of the game.
with the current system, i ask one question...why ARE there R&D agents anyway? Totally bull**** to have them there, since with the current system based on total luck, the prints can be handed out by ANY normal agent..
Or just send a random mail to any player? Same thing. But now you got that frustration, since you claim doing R&D missions gives you some advantage, but it isn't. The whole R&D system is a total waiste of time, when you can increase your chance by 0.000000000000000000000000001 % by doing 4 weeks missions and waist millions of isk. Again. how fair the system might be, everyone who is doing R&D missions is an idiot. Anyone who will do, will have a major breakdown after a few weeks doing hard work, and then realizing it's all for nothing.
I can only advise anyone, to install a lvl 1 agent, and leave it running, decline every mission and look by him from week to week, if you have a print.
No motivation to do the missions and waiste money. Not really.
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PropanElgen
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Posted - 2004.02.18 13:46:00 -
[32]
Edited by: PropanElgen on 18/02/2004 13:47:05
I want 50 Arkanor and 50 Crokite roids outside my station.
Each roid should be about 20k radius.
K THX BYE
All the angels and the puny men of god looked away...
Frightened to death by the evil that was born on that day!
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Mimo
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Posted - 2004.02.18 13:56:00 -
[33]
Quote:
Edited by: PropanElgen on 18/02/2004 13:47:05
I want 50 Arkanor and 50 Crokite roids outside my station.
Each roid should be about 20k radius.
K THX BYE
Please fly arround in a circle. From all the pilots who fly arround in a circle, there will be picked a random pilot, at a random time, regardless how long he is flying arround in a circle.
Cool. The first pilot has the best chances one might say..but after 6 months still waiting, and then seeing a pilot who joined the game 6 months after he started the game himself, getting the reward, would you be pleased? Can you compare that to your stupid demand you just posted?
K, thx, diqualified, bye
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Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2004.02.18 13:57:00 -
[34]
Dev's did ask our opinions on this matter and it was generally well received that agents should give out tech II bp's.
Now, I'm not saying it's a perfect solution, but perhaps the factors involved in who does and who doesn't get a bp needs looking at to ensure it IS random.
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
PropanElgen
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Posted - 2004.02.18 14:02:00 -
[35]
Edited by: PropanElgen on 18/02/2004 14:02:54
Quote:
Please fly arround in a circle. From all the pilots who fly arround in a circle, there will be picked a random pilot, at a random time, regardless how long he is flying arround in a circle.
Cool. The first pilot has the best chances one might say..but after 6 months still waiting, and then seeing a pilot who joined the game 6 months after he started the game himself, getting the reward, would you be pleased? Can you compare that to your stupid demand you just posted?
K, thx, diqualified, bye
It was stated well in advance how the T2 BP's would be distributed.
Everyone has a chance of getting a BP (if they do research with research agents), but there is no guarantee that you'll ever get one (from the handout, you can of course buy from the ones who get lucky in the lottery).
The ones who complains on in this thread are the ones who obviously didnt get lucky in the lottery, EVEN THO they know perfectly well how the BP's are distributed.
So STFU!
All the angels and the puny men of god looked away...
Frightened to death by the evil that was born on that day!
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Adliger Krieger
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Posted - 2004.02.18 14:09:00 -
[36]
Quote:
Edited by: PropanElgen on 18/02/2004 14:02:54
Quote:
Please fly arround in a circle. From all the pilots who fly arround in a circle, there will be picked a random pilot, at a random time, regardless how long he is flying arround in a circle.
Cool. The first pilot has the best chances one might say..but after 6 months still waiting, and then seeing a pilot who joined the game 6 months after he started the game himself, getting the reward, would you be pleased? Can you compare that to your stupid demand you just posted?
K, thx, diqualified, bye
It was stated well in advance how the T2 BP's would be distributed.
Everyone has a chance of getting a BP (if they do research with research agents), but there is no guarantee that you'll ever get one (from the handout, you can of course buy from the ones who get lucky in the lottery).
The ones who complains on in this thread are the ones who obviously didnt get lucky in the lottery, EVEN THO they know perfectly well how the BP's are distributed.
So STFU!
Personally, I think you should be banned from the board for saying STFU. So, STFU NUBLAR!
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Varia
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Posted - 2004.02.18 14:23:00 -
[37]
The only complaint I have to say about my R&D agent is the fact he keeps asking for animals for testing purposes.
This only leads to one conclusion and that is my agent is a serial animal killer who love nothing more than feeding living creature into his depraved experiments.
In simple terms he's a SICK LOON!, I've now refused to give into any more of his demands and warning about this so called research will be hampered if I donÆt bring him more livestock excuses anymore.
Women that strive to equal men lack ambition. |
Atandros
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Posted - 2004.02.18 14:26:00 -
[38]
Quote:
Quote:
Edited by: PropanElgen on 18/02/2004 13:47:05
I want 50 Arkanor and 50 Crokite roids outside my station.
Each roid should be about 20k radius.
K THX BYE
Please fly arround in a circle. From all the pilots who fly arround in a circle, there will be picked a random pilot, at a random time, regardless how long he is flying arround in a circle.
Cool. The first pilot has the best chances one might say..but after 6 months still waiting, and then seeing a pilot who joined the game 6 months after he started the game himself, getting the reward, would you be pleased? Can you compare that to your stupid demand you just posted?
K, thx, diqualified, bye
You knew the rules before you got in the circle. You knew that there is no criteria for being picked but probability, and knowing this you made efforts to increase the probability in your favor any way you could. But despite the *probable* outcome, someone else got picked - according to the rules of the game which you knew - and now you state your unhappiness with the situation.
In light of this, how can you say you're complaining against the system as such and not the fact that you got nothing?
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Mimo
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Posted - 2004.02.18 15:00:00 -
[39]
Edited by: Mimo on 18/02/2004 15:02:26
Quote:
You knew the rules before you got in the circle. You knew that there is no criteria for being picked but probability, and knowing this you made efforts to increase the probability in your favor any way you could. But despite the *probable* outcome, someone else got picked - according to the rules of the game which you knew - and now you state your unhappiness with the situation.
In light of this, how can you say you're complaining against the system as such and not the fact that you got nothing?
Yeah i knew em, and i must admit, that of course personal dissappointment is the main reason to post what i have posted.
Though reviewing this whole thing, i think, that i am by far not the only one getting dissappointed about it over the time.
I am mostly confronted with the fact, that doing R&D missions is more or less a waiste of time. All the skills one learned, etc to prepare for Tech 2.
With the current speed of distribution, doing missions is a wasite of time and isk in my eyes.
I agree it must be taken care of, that anyone has a chance to get a print. But i would more like a dual system, where there are two lotteries. One print comes to the users above a certain RP level, the 2nd one to all.
This would grant, at least in my oppinion, still anyone with 1 RP to get a print, but it's also ensured, that the high RP peeps get a better chance. This would motivate peeps to keep with their Agent missions to get to the high RP distribution.
Results in prints still achievable for everyone, but the ones with high RP's now have a motivation to stick keeping their RP's raising.
Some call the current system fair, some don't. I think it's mostly fair seens from a smaller corp and the non powerplayers view. I accept that and i think it's cool, that they take care about it and want to give anyone a fair chance.
But granting the fair chance by making the R&D missions almost pointless, since neither the time, cash, or whatever time invested gives you a noticable bonus.
i fail to see, why splitting the lotteries into 2 parts, and give each of them a print. one high, one low RP's.
Well, my ideas only anyway. I am not forcing anyone to follow my thoughts. But a bit more constructive discussion would be nice.
Atandros posted a more polite "S.T.....", which is worth replying.
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Jim Bond
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Posted - 2004.02.18 15:02:00 -
[40]
Edited by: Jim Bond on 18/02/2004 15:05:59
If everyone stopped doing research agents, then the devs and gms would have to do something about it.
What i would rather see in the future is maybe an agent mission, that a whole corp can take part in, a bit like a mini event just for a corp. The mini event may take several days to complete but at end of it you are guarenteed a blueprint. It would be based on a storyline type event and each part of the "event" has in the storyline gets you closer to the blueprint. The mini event would of course have to be npc based, but i like the idea of an mission much like the crielere event and killing as many npcs.
The Event parts could contain maybe a shopping list of components needed, maybe a lot of bs to kill, but something that a whole corp can take part in and should be a sequence of events getting you closer to the bp.
The downside to this is that smaller corps might struggle completing the objectives, but then again this is a mmorpg.
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Maud Dib
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Posted - 2004.02.18 15:48:00 -
[41]
Quote:
Quote:
ITS RANDOM. ITS A LOTTERY.
In theory, one corp could get ALL the BPs. Not everyone will get a BP - you have no divine right to one.
All you have done, is get a ticket (or lots of tickets) for the lottery.
That is total bull. My character is just as competent as another. Just because my luck is bad does not mean I should not get one. CCPs system is flawed. I don't have a Devine right but this random stuff is lame. It is like saying all the major companies in the world just get lucky when they do research and development.
I work in medical research and luck/chance/right place right time or what ever else you want to call it is a big factor. If you don't like the rules don't play the game. By game I mean Tech 2 lottery. They told you tell rules ahead of time. By playing you accepted that you might get a ton of RP's and never get a bp. Now if for some reason you heard " will get bp with lot's of points" when CCP said " random and lottery" then either you weren't paying attention or you just like to complain.
I hope all these people who whine get Tech 2 bp's, the crappiest ones available and then in a few months people with 300 RP's get the tech 2 battleships.
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Kretin Arnon
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Posted - 2004.02.18 15:57:00 -
[42]
I don't have a tech 2 bluprint and I'm not counting on getting one any time soon. What I am doing is hoarding components and stuff the people who want to use the blueprints for anything will need to buy of me.
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Harisdrop
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Posted - 2004.02.18 16:00:00 -
[43]
I will be selling my 20 run BPC of medium armor repairer II soon. Only 20 million isk. I sell the item for 2million isk. Either way if you sell it on the market or keep a few you make out.
--------------------------
Garsh ma it soo cool killing people in there space thingies |
Miss Nobody
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Posted - 2004.02.18 16:00:00 -
[44]
Edited by: Miss Nobody on 18/02/2004 16:03:46
It is true that some discoveries/innovations have been made by pure chance. In the last two centuries the number of these chance discoveries by single persons or small companies have diminished. Why? Because most research and development today rely on complex and costly equipment and personel. That means that you have to be a "larger" company willing/able to risc the amount of money required to keep a research project going for up to 5-10 years. The system CCP has implemented simulates the kind of breakthroughs experienced in the 1700-1900 centuries, relying on pure chance, not the future where most new discoveries most likely are the result of costly R&D Projects.
Am researching Minmatar Starship Engineering myself. 15k points. Not a thing yet.
"Hey! I need those two implants, I really do." |
Akela
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Posted - 2004.02.18 17:32:00 -
[45]
You know the penacillon discovery was "luck"....
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Skillz
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Posted - 2004.02.18 19:39:00 -
[46]
Fuse, it's a good system. Don't carebear it and suggest that CCP should hand out corporate welfare just because your corp apparantly sux and can't play on an even field.
Keep on flaming, lamers.
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Rinji
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Posted - 2004.02.18 20:01:00 -
[47]
**** I agree with Skillz?
Vice Admiral Rinji Morisato
Logistics Division
Commanding Officer of Logistics Division |
Belzavior
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Posted - 2004.02.18 20:39:00 -
[48]
I think the speed of releasing T2 is great. A couple items a week or so. Keeps these items rare and expensive to the point where the average person doesn't want to waste the cash on outfitting their ship with T2 items.
Think for a second if all Tech 2 items were released withen a week of Castor. Then we would have 6 months while we all waited for Shiva. That would really suck. The most boring period for EVE IMO was the 2-3 month dry spell before castor when nothing was being released.
Now I have almost 20k rp in amarr starship and haven't been offered anything yet. I may never be offered anything but thats just a risk I'm willing to take just for the chance of getting a bp.
There is always other ways of attaining these bps such as buying them from their current owners.
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Wraeththu
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Posted - 2004.02.18 21:55:00 -
[49]
Edited by: Wraeththu on 18/02/2004 21:56:14
Honestly, as much as I'm tired of the incessant bickering about T2 release, this post belongs in the missions forum.
Also in this forum, some of you who are providing "ideas" and such, will find that 95% of these have already been proposed, and it's likely you may just want to throw your 2-bits in on it.
That said, the long and short of it is, you've got 2 options
1.) All the whiners get a BP, the tech II market gets flushed down the toilet, and we're left with a people complaining that their BPOs are functionally equivelent to toilet paper
or
2.) A tech II bp is worth the hassle of component and morphite collection, as the item can be sold for enough of a value to override the monumental hassle it takes to actually succesfully market and sell an item.
To put it in persepective Fuse. Your boys are selling BPCs. I assume you purchased a BPO at some time. Your Megathron BPC's used to sell for 8-10M, now sells for 5 at busy times. Scorp prints going for as low as 3.5 at ME:10-12.
Soon, BSs and their corresponding prints will be just like the thorax. Selling for whopping 3% gross profit unless you really wheel and deal and make a whole 5%, and that doesn't even include paying of your employees (which may be just you) or the cost of the BPO or manufacturing facilities.
So, at a 1% profit margin, that means your employee's time is worth 2-4% of that, and the BPO is worthless.
If a person mines for a thorax and sells it, their 8-10 hours of mining is worth about 200k?
The tech 1 market is broken, and unlimiteds aren't having an astounding impact on that, due to most unlimiteds being of inferior quality to most people's BPOs.
As the number of people able to produce something approaches infinity (and or/max users) the available gain for selling said item approaches zero.
The only way to maintain a viable market is to limit the people producing an item. That's why there's patents in the real world and people attempting to keep tight controls over their code/hardware/build proceedures, etc.
Also in the real world, a company can either bill themselves on price, service, quality, or features. Unfortunatly, 3 of those 4 aren't viable options in Eve. Every item is of the same quality and use. Every item is self explanatory and fixable by the resulting purchaser with no training, and every item has the same features.
So that leaves price wars.
In the end, the only way the market works is off limited quantity. Either that, or we might as well be playing Tribes, where you walk up to the station and re-equip at will.
If you acknowledge the desire of the strong economy, then you have to agree on the limited count.
The next contention is "why don't I get something for my work, when someone with 29 RPs does". The answer is, Eve has always been designed around giving the casual gamer a chance. And this does.
If they had released all the Tech II bp's in the first week, and given the fact we've already determined that a limited quantity has to be kept to assure market stability, then basically Tech II would have been given out to the power gamers, and R&D agents would have been a complete waste of time. They might as well have just put them all in a container out in 0.0 and had a mad dash for it. Either way, you would just have a huge selection of people complaining right now "I'm bored. I want tech 3!"
Edit: For more info read Here
--
TomB: End the speed-race. 1 propulsion mod allowed, make turrets affect ship attributes like +speed/+ab speed +agil for progressivly smaller/lighter turrets, -speed/-ab speed -agil for long-range. |
Danton Marcellus
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Posted - 2004.02.18 22:43:00 -
[50]
I'm getting that same feeling I had when doing the missions for that miner II print, it's going to be a long while till I get that Micro Shield Transporter II... 
Convert Stations
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JGR Mao
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Posted - 2004.02.18 23:28:00 -
[51]
Randomness and the lottery is all good...
But been working since castor release till now with the same agent , solving the daily snag each day, and still having **** to show for it gets very very frustrating...
My main gripe with all this , i as a player have no indication of what goal i am goin to achieve and when, at all... If after researching with the same agent for 2 months and all i get is some worthless crap (highly likely with all the crap available) im not gonna bother anymore...
Just frustrated, tis all.
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Fuse
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Posted - 2004.02.18 23:52:00 -
[52]
Quote:
I work in medical research and luck/chance/right place right time or what ever else you want to call it is a big factor. If you don't like the rules don't play the game. By game I mean Tech 2 lottery. They told you tell rules ahead of time. By playing you accepted that you might get a ton of RP's and never get a bp. Now if for some reason you heard " will get bp with lot's of points" when CCP said " random and lottery" then either you weren't paying attention or you just like to complain.
I hope all these people who whine get Tech 2 bp's, the crappiest ones available and then in a few months people with 300 RP's get the tech 2 battleships.
I will not attack you personally here. No one is foolish enough to believe that you feed monkeys random combinations of chemicals and hope to make a drug out of it ("I work in medical research and luck/chance/right place right time or what ever else you want to call it is a big factor."). "If you don't like the rules don't play the game." Don't tell me what I should do, maybe you should quit the game because you can't handle a simple discussion. "They told you tell rules ahead of time. By playing you accepted that you might get a ton of RP's and never get a bp." Actually they did not they implied that reverse engineering would be in the game by putting it in the interface that is the game I paid for. I did not accept it that is the reason for the post because the system is flawed and that is why some people are reading it and some are trolling. "I hope all these people who whine get Tech 2 bp's, the crappiest ones available and then in a few months people with 300 RP's get the tech 2 battleships." Yes and that is really a mature way to look at things.
0.o It's not you... no wait it is you. |
Trevedian
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Posted - 2004.02.19 00:56:00 -
[53]
Quote:
Fuse, it's a good system. Don't carebear it and suggest that CCP should hand out corporate welfare just because your corp apparantly sux and can't play on an even field.
The system sucks buttsmooscher! If I had a clue when anything interesting would come out of T2 research I'd be a tad more satisfied. But CCP leaves us in the dark, and offers no information about when the BP's of relevant mod's will drop. I would like to know more than "Its just random  "
Sex0r > you're bounty turns me on.. you seem like the kind of amarrian to dominate me
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Skillz
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Posted - 2004.02.19 01:47:00 -
[54]
No, I think you want CCP to have 'events' that drops the bps in Stain and Fountain. That's what I think you're really whining about.
Keep on flaming, lamers.
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Fuse
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Posted - 2004.02.19 03:07:00 -
[55]
Quote:
No, I think you want CCP to have 'events' that drops the bps in Stain and Fountain. That's what I think you're really whining about.
Plenty of people in this post that do not belong to Stain or Fountain.
0.o It's not you... no wait it is you. |
Belzavior
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Posted - 2004.02.19 03:10:00 -
[56]
Also plenty of people in this thread whom agree that this is the only way to protect the tech 2 market.
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Trevedian
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Posted - 2004.02.19 04:43:00 -
[57]
Skillz do you resent us for killing the Rogue Jove Admiral and his Battleship thereby getting the first original miner 2 BP? Are you plagued by the fact that MASS mopped the floor with the competition at the Championship?
Go chase an ambulance Skilllezz
Sex0r > you're bounty turns me on.. you seem like the kind of amarrian to dominate me
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Angry Dan
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Posted - 2004.02.19 04:47:00 -
[58]
Quote:
C R A C K is the n0rty word.
So how do you describe that gap between your bum cheeks>
++++++++++++++++++++
CEO of the Space Munchkins.
Fear my kneepads of allure!
Huzzah Federation Foreign Minister - Ask about our tasty NAP's - Now in protein delicacy and cow flavour!
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Amarrian Jebus
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Posted - 2004.02.19 04:49:00 -
[59]
As a black hole?
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Mos Panor
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Posted - 2004.02.19 11:01:00 -
[60]
Well, I like the idea that when I start doing research missions I'll have a chance at getting a decent bp. (I'm a relative *nOOb*)
Do you really think I'd bother if I knew it'd take me months of powergaming to stand a chance? I doubt it.
Granted, I may not ever get one but what the hey, the moment I think it's pointless doing one or when it becomes a chore I'll just give up. Maybe it feels a tad unfair for the people researching for months without success but it's better for the casual gamer, whether you like it or not.
--------------------------
PIE Inc
Captain and Internal Communications Officer |
Skaz
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Posted - 2004.02.19 14:20:00 -
[61]
Ok, what I'd really would want to know, are there going to be limited amount of T2 bp's?
problem with T1 is that anyone with enough ISK can go and buy a blueprint.
But lets say T2 limits the number of BPs, that after a X amount of BP x have been dropped no more will be dropped. Until T3 of course, then T2 blueprints would again be offered through Agents along with the new T3 BPs Wouldn't that solve the problem of everyone owning a BP for everything?
To me that would really correct the economy of EVE to a large degree. I'm missing something here but that's the way I see it.
My opinion is simply that the system that is in place now is adequate, but needs to be revised for T3, luck is a nice factor to use, and having a high number of RPs increases your odds but they shouldn't guarantee you a blueprint.
I think that we just need to be patient even though our fuses are a bit short (sorry about the pun )
Skaz
CSM
"No, I'm not alt.....even if I have been in Pator Tech School for 2 years..." |
Wraeththu
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Posted - 2004.02.19 17:29:00 -
[62]
Quote:
Ok, what I'd really would want to know, are there going to be limited amount of T2 bp's?
As of last time Papa posted about it, yes it's being regulated. As to whether this is a short term fact, and Tech 2 BPOs will be come unlimited at some certain point in the future (I hope not) or they'll remain in limited quanities forever so that the tech II Bps are still viable options in the production chain come Tech III,IV,V(which I hope) that has yet to be determined.
Unfortunatly I don't have the link on hand. I've been trying to go back and bookmark any posts papa and zrakor have made, but I've been sorta short on time lately.
--
TomB: End the speed-race. 1 propulsion mod allowed, make turrets affect ship attributes like +speed/+ab speed +agil for progressivly smaller/lighter turrets, -speed/-ab speed -agil for long-range. |
Lord Kermit
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Posted - 2004.02.20 05:04:00 -
[63]
while Im certainly not as ****ed off about it anymore, I have to agree with Fuse.. the current distribution system is flawed... among the people I play with, a particular unnamed medium sized corp has received 5+ tech 2 prints... while some of those larger corps like mine have gotten none, that IMHO is bs... but then what do I know.. I'm just another whiner, right? :P
LK
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Absurd
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Posted - 2004.02.20 06:44:00 -
[64]
Quote:
Give it up already. I swear most of us are so frustrated with this half arse research deployment. Some corps get all the prints while others get none. Were you not supposed to release the multiple research project skills? When are you going to release the prints? Are you going to release it them a week before reverse engineering is released. It is getting harder and harder to be civil about this. Wake up please! Personally I feel ripped off and mislead here.
Who are we and us ? Are you talking for everyone ot just you ?
Seems to me that alot of peaple are happy with the current situation because alot of peaple actually know that quantity of new tech blueprints must be limited.
If everyone would get new tech blueprint it would not mean anything since everyone would be either selling the items or copies thus ruining the market as has been the case with tech 1.
So stop whining because YOU have not gotten anything yet and NEVER EVER assume you have the right to speak for everyone ever again, dont even speak for most peaple because you have no idea what most peaple want.
You strike me as someone who takes everything for granted, that isnt the case so live with it and stop whining.
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Iznogud
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Posted - 2004.02.20 11:52:00 -
[65]
I dont care anymore ... i started doing those research missions and got alot of t2 stuff
today i dont care if i ever get any or care for doing research missions cause then i dont have to be frustrated over folks with hardly any R/P get ton of stuff while those who where in from beginning get ****e
so today its like if i get / win a bp its ok ..and will prolly be some ****ty stuff i cant use anyway if not well then i dont care cause i dont wanna spend 1 sec anylonger on my luck wich often suck anyway
so yes Research suck big time and i hope you find another way for tech 3.4 and 5 stuff
Izno~
http://www.shinra.com/
Shinra Republic Artillery-round deliver
Izno~
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Peppermint Patty
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Posted - 2004.02.20 12:20:00 -
[66]
the only flaw in this lottery system is that its out of sync, like so many other things in Eve.
The problem is that the bps are not distributed in all research fields but just in some, so people with the 'wrong' research field are amassing rp and will do so for a long while because the respective items are not yet balanced by another division in CCP. Why they made the skills available when they don't have the bps ready is a complete mystery to me, but they did, and now they have to live with the frustration of players.
People in the 'right' research field just get their bp and then can start a new research project and hit the second bp and so on. So yes: for the time being this is not a fair lottery. It will though, when bps will be dished out in all the available researchfields.
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Lilan Kahn
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Posted - 2004.02.20 12:41:00 -
[67]
well maybe if you didnt chose a feild 3000 other ppl already are studying like the starships, maybe you shoud chosse some thing else you might be more lucky
Originally by: Eris Discordia
We break after X amount of threads, then we go wild and then we get our medication.
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LiverpoolFC
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Posted - 2004.02.20 12:47:00 -
[68]
I got two chars with over 22,000 RP's between them and I have yet to get a BP. Such is life, I will carry on doing the missions for a while longer.
There does however come a point where you just got to call it a day and move on. Reading about people who get half decent BP's from a crappy lvl 1 agent's sure **** me off.
But it is a lottery and I guess I been unlucky so far. Maybe I get the first cloaking device or a new Tech II Indy or even a Civillan Shield Booster II.
Should I stop doing agent work then my RP's will not vanish, so will be in the lottery until I win or until the do the final drawn.
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Chrimera
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Posted - 2004.02.20 12:49:00 -
[69]
To be honest I don't have a problem with the system, yes I know I have a tech2 bp but its not exactly changed my life!
I hear the large corps complaining because the small corps are getting bp's. Sorry but if it keeps people in the game that don't want to be in huge corps, fair play to them. My corp is very small corp (3 members). We are all doing research. Its no big deal, you go to a agent and ask him to research for you, whats so tough about that. He asks for something, you give it to him. Just like a normal agent. Ok, so your not guarented a return for your work, but thats how Real Life research is done. Its a investment, in time rather than money. If I pump all my money into a venture, I don't know if its going to be a huge success.
If you eventually get a cruiser tech2 bp, your return will be bigger than a thousand agent missions. I have made about 10 million out of my bp so far, how long would it take me to make that amount in agent missions?
Ok, I got lucky. But I worked hard for it. Whats the point in ccp dropping all the tech 2 bps? All the large corps buy them up and have a monopoly, oh great, just what the game needs and wants.
At the end of the day ccp made a decision and have stuck by it, which I salute them for. They said it was a lottery, and it is. If you always do the lottery and I do it once, for the first time, why do you deserve to win more than me?
HUBRIS TECHNOLOGIES, SHAPING THE FUTURE |
Siddy
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Posted - 2004.02.20 12:49:00 -
[70]
For ur information:
if i get some Cool Tech II BPo
i will take a lighter Fire it up and FORCE u watch it Burn
-------------------------------------------
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ElCoCo
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Posted - 2004.02.20 12:52:00 -
[71]
Has anyone gotten ANY tech1 BPO from killing an npc lately?
(And no I don`t mean an agent mission kill)
I remember they used to drop... never got one though and I^ve killed a gazillion npc`s.
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Marcus Aurelius
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Posted - 2004.02.20 17:16:00 -
[72]
rofl.
Any of you thought of what amount of isk you would have gotten by now by just mining in the time you use for the damn research ?
Bet you could buy a nice BP from that isk by now...
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