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Lucas De'Thal
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Posted - 2004.02.19 04:42:00 -
[1]
if you haven't read the recent Dev chat, read it. I think it's fine the way it is. The arguement made by Tyria that the price is dropping and too easy to obtain is short sighted i believe.
Whenever Tech2 production picks up i'm pretty sure whatever supply is being produced will quickly be eaten up. Of course right now the price is dropping because not everybody is producing using it. supply, demand......makes sense.
as far as it being or (was) 20k per piece, based on the price of mega 15k per....as mega drops in price then you can relatively expect morphite to drop in price too....anyways, just the jist of it.
______________________________________________
Hellmar > sorry for the attitude, playing a n00b character through the current state just left me a bit bitter
dev chat: Mar 18, 2004
hellmar> "you lot are just so clever you have a good history for out smarting us :-S "
dev chat: Feb 12, 2004 |
Baun
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Posted - 2004.02.19 05:36:00 -
[2]
That is everyone's theory but as it stands now there is almost no demand and the supply is still increasing greatly. Morph mining has had a several month headstart, so dont expect a huge price increase right away.
The Enemy's Gate is Down
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Xailia
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Posted - 2004.02.19 05:40:00 -
[3]
Hellmar said nothing will change...
He did mention that meroxite may get an increase in morphite yield.
"The sky above the port was the color of a television, tuned to a dead channel." |
Jash Illian
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Posted - 2004.02.19 07:37:00 -
[4]
Dunno...I haven't looked at the morphite market as I have no reason to. But I do remember something about Castor that could make removing the morphite from high end ores necessary (or possibly reworking the refining skills so it's not availible without extremely high refining skils):
Pre-Castor several billion units of trit was sold via the market every day. However the surplus of trit sitting on the market was a good 5x the amount of trit actually being used.
If a large enough surplus stockpiles, it's possible that surplus will never move and keep the prices of morphite depressed. Especially with the first bits of TL2 equipment using way more TL2 components, like fusion generators and shield arrays, than morphite.
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Baldour Ngarr
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Posted - 2004.02.19 08:56:00 -
[5]
"Keep morphite in the high end ores."
Remind me again why anyone was supposed to bother training astrogeology 5 and deep core mining, if they can just carry on sucking ark?
_______
"Soon" is an ancient Icelandic word meaning "some time before the next Ice Age." |
Psy Corp
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Posted - 2004.02.19 08:57:00 -
[6]
 Quote:
"Keep morphite in the high end ores."
Remind me again why anyone was supposed to bother training astrogeology 5 and deep core mining, if they can just carry on sucking ark?
exactly why 
I Have The Power Of The Mighty Lo.0lipop..
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Tyria Evenstar
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Posted - 2004.02.19 09:55:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Tyria Evenstar on 19/02/2004 09:57:23
My arguement was not just that the price is dropping and it's too easy to obtain. It was that by having morphite in non-DCM ores, it makes DCM redundant. Currently, there is no "real" miner specialisation in this game soley because of this reason.
If DCM was the only way to get morphite, there would be reason to train it, and then the people who took the time to specialise in DCM could do something that un-specialised players couldn't. As it stands, any fool can mine morphite. And thus, DCM is a joke.
I still think CCP are in the wrong over this issue, but I'm willing to wait and see what the morphite demands are for more complex equipment which is coming "soon", and thus what happens to the morphite market.
-Tyria.
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Elizabeth Powers
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Posted - 2004.02.19 10:02:00 -
[8]
I always thought the whole point of DCM, was that only people who had spent 3 MONTHS training mining and astro. lvl 5 could do it (and thereby obtain mercoxit) !!
CCP has effectively removed any specialisation, and flooded the market with increasingly worthless mercoxit.
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Lucas De'Thal
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Posted - 2004.02.19 10:04:00 -
[9]
Quote:
Edited by: Tyria Evenstar on 19/02/2004 09:57:23
My arguement was not just that the price is dropping and it's too easy to obtain. It was that by having morphite in non-DCM ores, it makes DCM redundant. Currently, there is no "real" miner specialisation in this game soley because of this reason.
If DCM was the only way to get morphite, there would be reason to train it, and then the people who took the time to specialise in DCM could do something that un-specialised players couldn't. As it stands, any fool can mine morphite. And thus, DCM is a joke.
I still think CCP are in the wrong over this issue, but I'm willing to wait and see what the morphite demands are for more complex equipment which is coming "soon", and thus what happens to the morphite market.
-Tyria.
ah, i see. I might have been reading the dev chat incorrectly then as I was understanding something else.
anyways, maybe if they made so you had to use DCM to obtain the morphite from high end ores also without removing morphite from them entirely would be a good compromise?
i'm working on the assuption here that finding merocite(sp) is harder than ark.
______________________________________________
Hellmar > sorry for the attitude, playing a n00b character through the current state just left me a bit bitter
dev chat: Mar 18, 2004
hellmar> "you lot are just so clever you have a good history for out smarting us :-S "
dev chat: Feb 12, 2004 |
Tyria Evenstar
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Posted - 2004.02.19 10:54:00 -
[10]
Quote:
anyways, maybe if they made so you had to use DCM to obtain the morphite from high end ores also without removing morphite from them entirely would be a good compromise?
See, this is why I asked if they could put in more DCM-only ores, so in 0.0 systems closer to secure space, it could be possible to DCM to get limited amounts of morphite.
And so, the further you you go from safe space, the better quality of DCM ore would be around, ending in Meroxcit, which would be the super-morhpite ore. Thus, there would be no need to have morphite in non-DCM ore.
I may bring this issue up again near the end of my CSM time, if I do not see a marked improvement in the DCM/morphite situation.
-Tyria.
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Rawne Karrde
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Posted - 2004.02.19 18:17:00 -
[11]
I agree, i was one of those miners who traded up to be ready for DCM, and then trained it to lvl 3 so that i could do it descently. I mined merc for a week then realized that the presence of morphite was found in ark, and i could mine enough ark to produce the same amount of morphite in the same time as well as get the mega/zyd. Witht he current setup, miner II's using less cap, allowing one to use more of htem, makes mining merc a waste of time unless the prices rise above something like 80k a unit, or the ark/bistot runs out.
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Lentia
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Posted - 2004.02.19 19:46:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Lentia on 19/02/2004 19:49:50
Yes I agree as well. Im dismayed that I spent all that time training astro 5, DCM 3 to mine Merc when anyone can get morphite out of Ark and D.O. even. Plus the size and time required actually make it EASIER to get morphite from ark plus as mentioned you get all that zyd and mega also.
I wanted to be a specialized miner but all this training was a total waste. Wah!
Take the morphite out of ark and d.o. or make it so that only people with DCM can mine it, etc. Otherwise why did CCP make this skill? Also hopefully there will actually be a demand for morphite, which there currently isnt, or that will add even more insult to injury.
Lentia
Military Officer
http://www.staf.online-guild.com/ |
Bonnie Parker
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Posted - 2004.02.19 20:24:00 -
[13]
Quote:
I always thought the whole point of DCM, was that only people who had spent 3 MONTHS training mining and astro. lvl 5 could do it (and thereby obtain mercoxit) !!
CCP has effectively removed any specialisation, and flooded the market with increasingly worthless mercoxit.
I totally agree.
I trained DCM to level 5 and spent weeks out in 0.0 mining mercoxit for my corp only to find at the end of the day that the stockpiles of morphite comming into the game from NON Deep Core Miners will keep prices for this particular mineral low for months to come.
And the fact that you only need SIX pieces of morphite in Tech 2 Frigate construction is another kick in the teeth for Deep Core Miners. I shudder to think what high-end tech 2 items will require. If the Devs have any sense of fair-play and want to give something back to all those players that got screwed over by trying to specialise in DCM, then they should at least make higher tech 2 items require very large amounts of morphite.
I'd like to ask one question of the Devs... who's bright idea was it to allow players to get morphite from anything but mercoxit? Didn't they ever stop and think what effect it would have on players that WANTED to specialise?
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Heff
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Posted - 2004.02.19 20:31:00 -
[14]
Take the morphite out of everything except for mercoxit. Morphite was never in arkonor before, why should it be now? and why should any non-DCM-trained miner have access to it?
You want morphite? train DCM skill, by DCM lasers, find mercoxit, and watch out for the damage cloud. Anything else is stupid.
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Riddari
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Posted - 2004.02.19 20:31:00 -
[15]
I think Hellmar admitted that it was "his bright idea".
The Devs say they play the game a lot but I doubt any of them mine or trade... my guess it they mostly play PVP
¼©¼
a history |
Ronyo Dae'Loki
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Posted - 2004.02.19 20:37:00 -
[16]
Quote:
And the fact that you only need SIX pieces of morphite in Tech 2 Frigate construction is another kick in the teeth for Deep Core Miners. I shudder to think what high-end tech 2 items will require.
But you need less megacyte than that for a tech 1 frigate.
Just wait until the large tech 2 items come out. I wouldn't be surprised if a tech 2 battleship required not only the tech 1 battleship but also 5000 or so Morphite and 7-10000 Megacyte and Zydrine each.
Careful what you wish for.
-------------
My salsa makes all the pretty girls want to dance and take off their underpants.
I <3 ( . Y . ) |
Jenna Stannis
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Posted - 2004.02.19 20:43:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Jenna Stannis on 19/02/2004 21:08:26
Quote:
I think Hellmar admitted that it was "his bright idea".
The Devs say they play the game a lot but I doubt any of them mine or trade... my guess it they mostly play PVP
I think you're 100% correct. I'd be very suprised if anyone connected with designing this game has ever bothered mining to any extent.
The introduction of Deep Core Mining in its current format has got to be the least thoughtout 'feature' of EVE so far, and it makes a mockery of CCP's hints at wanting more specialization from players.
"Morphite is a highly unorthodox mineral that can only be found in the hard-to-get Mercoxit ore."
Thats taken directly from the minerals in-game description. There is no mention of this mineral comming from other ores.
Point is, players who haven't trained DCM or haven't even mined a mercoxit roid SHOULD NOT get morphite as a by-product. Deep Core Miners don't get Megacyte or Zydrine as a nice by-product. They get mining pollution clouds, their lasers can only mine 1 unit of mercoxit per minute, they can't use mining drones or mine to cannisters. Add 250 units for a single refine and 40m3 volume per piece making hauling a refines worth a job in itself, and you begin to understand why DCM isn't worth it in its current form when morphite can be got from ores other than mercoxit.
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Cally
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Posted - 2004.02.19 21:23:00 -
[18]
Quote:
if you haven't read the recent Dev chat, read it. I think it's fine the way it is. The arguement made by Tyria that the price is dropping and too easy to obtain is short sighted i believe.
Have you got a link to this Dev chat?
Thanks.
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Tyria Evenstar
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Posted - 2004.02.19 22:24:00 -
[19]
Quote:
Have you got a link to this Dev chat?
Here you go.
And look, if I can see that enough people still are, like me, against the current DCM/morphite situation, I shall bring it up again sooner than I planned; next week or the week after.
-Tyria.
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Verdack
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Posted - 2004.02.19 23:44:00 -
[20]
Im not one to moan for no reason about problems in eve. their bound to happen. If its not meant to be found in other ores take it out! then all us hard working miners will feel at least little gratified :D
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Del Tarrant
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Posted - 2004.02.20 09:44:00 -
[21]
Quote:
Quote:
Have you got a link to this Dev chat?
Here you go.
And look, if I can see that enough people still are, like me, against the current DCM/morphite situation, I shall bring it up again sooner than I planned; next week or the week after.
-Tyria.
I for one would like you to raise this point again in the next Dev chat because from what I read there from TomB and Helmar its sounds like they think it isn't such a big deal.
I've got 2 account for this game, I opened one specifically to train and specialise in Deep Core Mining. I haven't bothered logging him in for weeks now as I don't see any point to mining mercoxit anymore. There's simply far too much morphite in game now from non Deep Core Mining and little to no demand for it. Even when there is a bigger demand I think my miner will still be redundant for a long time to come so I'll be cancelling that particular account until DCM becomes a worthwhile profession.
I know other players who are equally pi$$ed off at whats happend to DCM. Its a shame because if they'd implemented it properly in the first place DCM could have been the first true specialization in the game. And specialization can only be good for the game in the long run.
So, yes Tyria, please raise this issue again when the time comes 
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Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2004.02.20 09:48:00 -
[22]
Now the miners know how Caldari feel - nerf nerf nerf!
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Del Tarrant
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Posted - 2004.02.20 09:50:00 -
[23]
Quote:
Now the miners know how Caldari feel - nerf nerf nerf!
Try being a Caldari Deep Core Miner! Lifes a b!tch at the moment 
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ElCoCo
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Posted - 2004.02.20 10:56:00 -
[24]
Quote:
Quote:
Now the miners know how Caldari feel - nerf nerf nerf!
Try being a Caldari Deep Core Miner! Lifes a b!tch at the moment
The scorp is the UBER DCM ship! A lot of CPU to play with since DCM lasers use a lot
OMG I can`t believe I said that... a scorp for mining....
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Tyria Evenstar
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Posted - 2004.02.20 11:45:00 -
[25]
Quote:
I for one would like you to raise this point again in the next Dev chat because from what I read there from TomB and Helmar its sounds like they think it isn't such a big deal.
I've got 2 account for this game, I opened one specifically to train and specialise in Deep Core Mining. I haven't bothered logging him in for weeks now as I don't see any point to mining mercoxit anymore. There's simply far too much morphite in game now from non Deep Core Mining and little to no demand for it. Even when there is a bigger demand I think my miner will still be redundant for a long time to come so I'll be cancelling that particular account until DCM becomes a worthwhile profession.
I know other players who are equally pi$$ed off at whats happend to DCM. Its a shame because if they'd implemented it properly in the first place DCM could have been the first true specialization in the game. And specialization can only be good for the game in the long run.
So, yes Tyria, please raise this issue again when the time comes
I cannot refuse such an impassioned request. I shall bring it up again, and it will be next week or the week after. CCP shall learn the error of their ways.
-Tyria.
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svetlana
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Posted - 2004.02.20 12:18:00 -
[26]
Quote:
And look, if I can see that enough people still are, like me, against the current DCM/morphite situation, I shall bring it up again sooner than I planned; next week or the week after.
i'm not a DCM miner-- i had wanted to become one but i don't see the point atm. i think it may be a good move for CCP to temporarily make morphite only available through DCM until there actually IS a supply problem (if that time ever comes).
hellmar probably should not have jumped the gun and nerfed DCM before there was a reason to nerf it yet. to solve an imaginary supply problem which might never occur, CCP seem to have eliminated DCM as a worthwhile profession right now.
-svet
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Cadman Weyland
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Posted - 2004.02.20 12:31:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Cadman Weyland on 20/02/2004 12:33:06
First time ive looked at this post...you telling me i wasted a whole month training Astrogeology to lvl5 for nothing? that sucks.
4 of us in our corp decided to train it as we are in the mining division, now im reading that specialisation is useless.
CCP sometimes u guys kill me 
Director of Empire Ops and Chief Carebear |
Jenna Stannis
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Posted - 2004.02.20 12:52:00 -
[28]
Quote:
Edited by: Cadman Weyland on 20/02/2004 12:33:06
First time ive looked at this post...you telling me i wasted a whole month training Astrogeology to lvl5 for nothing? that sucks.
4 of us in our corp decided to train it as we are in the mining division, now im reading that specialisation is useless.
CCP sometimes u guys kill me
At least it was only a month wasted for you... I trained Astrogeology 5 and Deep Core Mining 5. Thats about 10 weeks training time wasted for me. I should have spent those 10 weeks training combat skills since thats all the Devs seem to bother about.
Specialist Deep Core Mining? LMAO - we should have known better 
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BigBadToughGuy
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Posted - 2004.02.24 23:11:00 -
[29]
A small consolation comes from getting an increase in mining laser yields with astro 5, 93.3 units per minute with a miner II. I feel bad for those that took the time to go beyond lvl 1 on DCM, CCP really wasted a lot of peoples time.
Hopefully, it gets fixed quick before this morphite "by-product" builds up to such a high level that the price never drops.
If none of the Devs are spending any quality time mining, maybe they should read these forums while they are camping systems looking for PvP and LISTEN for a change to their customers.
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Mr M
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Posted - 2004.02.25 03:00:00 -
[30]
As soon as zydrine drops in price or morphite costs more than 21k/unit you'll get more isk out of mining mercoxite. If morphite should go up to 30k/unit you'll earn nearly 40% more from mining mercoxite.
http://orecalc.evegeek.com | http://www.evegeek.com |
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