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All rats should get trac dis and smartbombs

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Skynet91	Posted - 2007.10.05 05:20:00 - [1] well its been a while since i have made a rant about the morality of having defender missiles on almost every single rat over a cruiser, this of cause effecting 1 race, that being caldari, so in reality not only does caldari dish out the least amount of damage for ships, we also get owned by defender missiles, 2-3 defender missiles, thats up to 50% off our all ready rubbish dps... so i would think its only fair that each rat should carry tracking disrupts and other anti gun/anti drone defences if they insist on carrying defenders. hey.. its only fair. /me puts on flame proof suit
Tarminic Black Flame Industries	Posted - 2007.10.05 05:22:00 - [2] Some rats do have tracking disrupters, actually. And ECM Jammers, and Sensor Dampeners. all those can be directly circumvented by FoF missiles, none of those can be directly circumvented by turrets. Please do your homework before you post. ------------ Whiners - Unite! \| Posting and You Tarminic - Forum Warfare Specialist.
Daelorn State War Academy	Posted - 2007.10.05 05:24:00 - [3] Rats should be removed from the game tbh
Skynet91	Posted - 2007.10.05 05:25:00 - [4] Originally by: Tarminic Some rats do have tracking disrupters, actually. And ECM Jammers, and Sensor Dampeners. all those can be directly circumvented by FoF missiles, none of those can be directly circumvented by turrets. Please do your homework before you post. yes but your forgetting, dampeners/ecm's effect everyone, who gets affected by defender missiles effect? caldari! and only 1 race use tracking disruptor's if my memory serves me correctly yet every race uses defender missiles
Skynet91	Posted - 2007.10.05 05:29:00 - [5] Originally by: Daelorn Rats should be removed from the game tbh rats being looked over and changed to suit current game conditions that arnt from 2003 would be a better way to go of cause back in the day when missiles where ridiculously powerful uber wtfpwnmomisslies yes that would be justified but not now
Tarminic Black Flame Industries	Posted - 2007.10.05 05:30:00 - [6] Originally by: Skynet91 yes but your forgetting, dampeners/ecm's effect everyone Except that Caldari, using FoF missiles, negate the effect of dampeners and ECM. Any other race interested in doing so must sacrifice slots used for tanking for ECCM or Sensor Boosters. ------------ Whiners - Unite! \| Posting and You Tarminic - Forum Warfare Specialist.
Skynet91	Posted - 2007.10.05 05:33:00 - [7] Originally by: Tarminic Originally by: Skynet91 yes but your forgetting, dampeners/ecm's effect everyone Except that Caldari, using FoF missiles, negate the effect of dampeners and ECM. Any other race interested in doing so must sacrifice slots used for tanking for ECCM or Sensor Boosters. LOL you think fof's are practical in a mission situation??? LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL try having 50 targets in a room and then using defender missiles :P not only do they get a damage penalty, they get taken out the same by defenders, and they change targets every shot.... stop being silly, fof's are good for nothing, they are barely useful in pvp specially when you have a small logistics ship cougheve tourneycough
Tarminic Black Flame Industries	Posted - 2007.10.05 05:37:00 - [8] Originally by: Skynet91 Originally by: Tarminic Originally by: Skynet91 yes but your forgetting, dampeners/ecm's effect everyone Except that Caldari, using FoF missiles, negate the effect of dampeners and ECM. Any other race interested in doing so must sacrifice slots used for tanking for ECCM or Sensor Boosters. LOL you think fof's are practical in a mission situation??? LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL try having 50 targets in a room and then using defender missiles :P not only do they get a damage penalty, they get taken out the same by defenders, and they change targets every shot.... stop being silly, fof's are good for nothing, they are barely useful in pvp specially when you have a small logistics ship cougheve tourneycough In that case, should we call it even and just remove any type of ECM or defensive measures from all NPC rats. Then again, there may be a Caldari battleship that doesn't use missiles. Though I'm sure that would have a horrible effect on your ISK/hour ratio. ------------ Whiners - Unite! \| Posting and You Tarminic - Forum Warfare Specialist.
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2007.10.05 05:39:00 - [9] Edited by: Akita T on 05/10/2007 05:41:29 Skynet, you're being stupid. I can finish more than half of the L4s almost completely AFK using Hydras on my Drake. I just need to be there to restart the launchers after they reload. Besides, at L5 FoF skill, FoFs no longer have any DAMAGE penality compared to normals, just a slight sig penality, which is only relevant againt frig-sized targets. _ Caldari N.V.T.F. is recruiting...
Skynet91	Posted - 2007.10.05 05:41:00 - [10] Originally by: Tarminic Originally by: Skynet91 Originally by: Tarminic Originally by: Skynet91 yes but your forgetting, dampeners/ecm's effect everyone Except that Caldari, using FoF missiles, negate the effect of dampeners and ECM. Any other race interested in doing so must sacrifice slots used for tanking for ECCM or Sensor Boosters. LOL you think fof's are practical in a mission situation??? LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL try having 50 targets in a room and then using defender missiles :P not only do they get a damage penalty, they get taken out the same by defenders, and they change targets every shot.... stop being silly, fof's are good for nothing, they are barely useful in pvp specially when you have a small logistics ship cougheve tourneycough In that case, should we call it even and just remove any type of ECM or defensive measures from all NPC rats. Then again, there may be a Caldari battleship that doesn't use missiles. Though I'm sure that would have a horrible effect on your ISK/hour ratio. i like that idea about removing all ecm/defenders thats a great idea, beleive it or not caldari doenst ussualy focus on gun skills till we have skills to use the 90% of ships that dont use guns :P
Apple Blossom	Posted - 2007.10.05 05:42:00 - [11] Agree with the OP. Missile boats clearly need a boost in PvE.
Akkarin Pagan Minmatar Raddick Explorations Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2007.10.05 05:43:00 - [12] I would say missiles are absolutely fine, as I can complete any level 4 mission in a torp Raven with Caldari BS III, and Torpedoes II. By comparison, if I were to take a Maelstrom, I need Minmatar BS IV, and Large Projectiles IV (similar tanking skills for both). However my 6 weapon Raven would complete the lvl 4 far quicker than my 8 turret BS (using 1400mm cannons). Beyond that, my Raven does the same dps from 0k out to (at the time) 72k (defenders not withstanding). By Comparison, my Maelstrom's guns are only effective against cruisers more than 20k away, and frigates more than 30k away. Of course under these ranges I have to use drones (5 mediums to be exact) which also conveniently fit into a Raven's drone bay, making it even there. Admittedly the Maelstrom can carry 2 flights of mediums and the Raven a flight of mediums and a flight of smalls, bur if your getting drones popped in missions, you are doing it wrong. So tell me, why do rats need disruptors and smartbombs Akkarin Hopefully the mods won't play with this one <3 - Immy
Laboratus Gallente BGG League of Abnormal Gentlemen	Posted - 2007.10.05 05:43:00 - [13] Originally by: Akita T Edited by: Akita T on 05/10/2007 05:41:29 Skynet, you're being stupid. I can finish more than half of the L4s almost completely AFK using Hydras on my Drake. I just need to be there to restart the launchers after they reload. Besides, at L5 FoF skill, FoFs no longer have any DAMAGE penality compared to normals, just a slight sig penality, which is only relevant againt frig-sized targets. True. Tried that one in my domi, didn't work out too well... ___ P.S. Post with your main. Mind control and tin hats
Skynet91	Posted - 2007.10.05 05:44:00 - [14] Originally by: Akita T Skynet, you're being stupid. I can finish more than half of the L4s almost completely AFK using Hydras on my Drake. I just need to be there to restart the launchers after they reload. so can i, point being, my 3mill sp gallente alt that is currently flying a myrmidon gets through a bs allot quicker then my drake/nighthawk, even though i have several times the sp! hence the point of low dps + defenders = stupidly low dps :(, where as heavy drones, with 1mill worth of sp and basic gun skills = uber, secondly, ecm/dampeners/tracing disruptors, only effect the targeted ship whilst defenders go after any missile fired by anyone??? -.-'
Skynet91	Posted - 2007.10.05 05:49:00 - [15] Originally by: Akkarin Pagan I would say missiles are absolutely fine, as I can complete any level 4 mission in a torp Raven with Caldari BS III, and Torpedoes II. By comparison, if I were to take a Maelstrom, I need Minmatar BS IV, and Large Projectiles IV (similar tanking skills for both). However my 6 weapon Raven would complete the lvl 4 far quicker than my 8 turret BS (using 1400mm cannons) which brings me to the point of this reply, it wouldnt make a differnce weather their where any defenders ot not because they cant kill a torp/cruise missiles in time. Beyond that, my Raven does the same dps from 0k out to (at the time) 72k (defenders not withstanding). By Comparison, my Maelstrom's guns are only effective against cruisers more than 20k away, and frigates more than 30k away. Of course under these ranges I have to use drones (5 mediums to be exact) which also conveniently fit into a Raven's drone bay, making it even there. Admittedly the Maelstrom can carry 2 flights of mediums and the Raven a flight of mediums and a flight of smalls, bur if your getting drones popped in missions, you are doing it wrong. So tell me, why do rats need disruptors and smartbombs Akkarin i didnt read most of this post, i stopped when i saw "raven" and "torpedoes", y you ask! well the amount of defenders it takes to kill a torp or a torp/cruise missiles is allot more then is shot out each voly from a rat, this is towards the people in bc's that have to use missiles to finish their level 2/3/4 missions (mostly 4 though because that's where its most annoying)
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2007.10.05 05:49:00 - [16] I can fly all T1 ships and several T2s. In missions, I either take my heavies Drake or my sentry+meds Dominix. Both passive shield-tanked (Dominix has a slightly weaker tank but better "reach/damage"). I still prefer the Drake though. _ Caldari N.V.T.F. is recruiting...
Laboratus Gallente BGG League of Abnormal Gentlemen	Posted - 2007.10.05 05:53:00 - [17] Originally by: Skynet91 well its been a while since i have made a rant about the morality of having defender missiles on almost every single rat over a cruiser, this of cause effecting 1 race, that being caldari, so in reality not only does caldari dish out the least amount of damage for ships, we also get owned by defender missiles, 2-3 defender missiles, thats up to 50% off our all ready rubbish dps... so i would think its only fair that each rat should carry tracking disrupts and other anti gun/anti drone defences if they insist on carrying defenders. hey.. its only fair. /me puts on flame proof suit You do realise smart bombs would blow up more missiles than defenders do... ___ P.S. Post with your main. Mind control and tin hats
Allestin Villimar	Posted - 2007.10.05 05:53:00 - [18] Can't believe no one's mentioned the fact that missiles can choose their damage type, maximizing their DPS vs any targets, while most gunships can only get 2 at most.
Skynet91	Posted - 2007.10.05 05:58:00 - [19] Originally by: Allestin Villimar Can't believe no one's mentioned the fact that missiles can choose their damage type, maximizing their DPS vs any targets, while most gunships can only get 2 at most. we're talking missions here, and changing your missile type really doesn't help all that much unfortunately, since the 25% bonus to kin damage and such means that 95% of the time your gonna be using scourge against all mission targets.(imo)
Skynet91	Posted - 2007.10.05 05:59:00 - [20] Originally by: Laboratus Originally by: Skynet91 well its been a while since i have made a rant about the morality of having defender missiles on almost every single rat over a cruiser, this of cause effecting 1 race, that being caldari, so in reality not only does caldari dish out the least amount of damage for ships, we also get owned by defender missiles, 2-3 defender missiles, thats up to 50% off our all ready rubbish dps... so i would think its only fair that each rat should carry tracking disrupts and other anti gun/anti drone defences if they insist on carrying defenders. hey.. its only fair. /me puts on flame proof suit You do realise smart bombs would blow up more missiles than defenders do... that part was more scarcasam then an actual suggestion otherwise rats would be smart bombing each other.... surprised you didn't pick that up -.-'
Akkarin Pagan Minmatar Raddick Explorations Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2007.10.05 06:14:00 - [21] Originally by: Skynet91 Originally by: Akkarin Pagan I would say missiles are absolutely fine, as I can complete any level 4 mission in a torp Raven with Caldari BS III, and Torpedoes II. By comparison, if I were to take a Maelstrom, I need Minmatar BS IV, and Large Projectiles IV (similar tanking skills for both). However my 6 weapon Raven would complete the lvl 4 far quicker than my 8 turret BS (using 1400mm cannons) which brings me to the point of this reply, it wouldnt make a differnce weather their where any defenders ot not because they cant kill a torp/cruise missiles in time. Beyond that, my Raven does the same dps from 0k out to (at the time) 72k (defenders not withstanding). By Comparison, my Maelstrom's guns are only effective against cruisers more than 20k away, and frigates more than 30k away. Of course under these ranges I have to use drones (5 mediums to be exact) which also conveniently fit into a Raven's drone bay, making it even there. Admittedly the Maelstrom can carry 2 flights of mediums and the Raven a flight of mediums and a flight of smalls, bur if your getting drones popped in missions, you are doing it wrong. So tell me, why do rats need disruptors and smartbombs Akkarin i didnt read most of this post, i stopped when i saw "raven" and "torpedoes", y you ask! well the amount of defenders it takes to kill a torp or a torp/cruise missiles is allot more then is shot out each voly from a rat, this is towards the people in bc's that have to use missiles to finish their level 2/3/4 missions (mostly 4 though because that's where its most annoying) You'd be surprised what some of the lvl 4 bosses can do with defenders, Hoborak Moon anyone?) but I digress. Back in the dim and distant past (before Rev 1.0) the most popular lvl 3 mission ship was the Ferox (with 5 heavy launchers). Personally I preferred the Cyclone, but I'm strange like that. Back then, I don't remember anyone complaining about npc defenders. In fact the only complaints I can ever remember about defenders is that they don't work well enough when players use them. Defenders are easily circumvented, move closer. Are you seriously telling me that a Drake can't tank a lvl 3 with 5 instead of 6 med slots? I was quite happily tanking lvl 3s with a Cyclone on only 5 slots (BC rank III at the time). I know the cyclone gets boost amount bonus, but I can assure you that 5% per level shield resists isn't to be sniffed at. As for lvl 4s if you are doing them for isk, then use a Raven, if for fun, then live with it, or cross train guns. Akkarin Hopefully the mods won't play with this one <3 - Immy
Sheriff Jones Amarr Please Enter Password	Posted - 2007.10.05 06:21:00 - [22] Edited by: Sheriff Jones on 05/10/2007 06:21:26 Sorry to say but, missiles ain't the Caldari "privilege" whine anymore. you lost that right. We have Khanid, we demand missile boosts too! My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit.
Skynet91	Posted - 2007.10.05 06:30:00 - [23] could train guns and buy a vulture and have an even better tank with good dps :D or... i could spend the next 36days training bs 5 for the new t2 bs's :D /me wants a blackops scorp >.>
cal nereus Bounty Hunter - Dark Legion Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2007.10.05 06:32:00 - [24] Gallente are the only ships that don't care about missiles... hmm, what does that tell us? --- Join BH-DL
sableye principle of motion Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.10.05 07:01:00 - [25] Originally by: cal nereus Gallente are the only ships that don't care about missiles... hmm, what does that tell us? except tristan, mega (not much though), eris, ares, nemesis, guardian vexor, celestis, lachesis and the azuru I'm sure there are more too. Join The Fight With Promo Today
Cadiz Caldari No Quarter. Vae Victis.	Posted - 2007.10.05 07:03:00 - [26] Originally by: cal nereus Gallente are the only ships that don't care about missiles... hmm, what does that tell us? Hi, Roden ships. ------ Director, No Quarter "There is no problem that cannot be solved by the judicious application of violence."
Skynet91	Posted - 2007.10.05 07:25:00 - [27] Originally by: sableye Originally by: cal nereus Gallente are the only ships that don't care about missiles... hmm, what does that tell us? except tristan, mega (not much though), eris, ares, nemesis, guardian vexor, celestis, lachesis and the azuru I'm sure there are more too. all exceptional mission ships that sit out side 10k range and have trouble catching a mwding bs that likes to keep its 50k range
Zana Kito Antares Fleet Yards SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.05 08:41:00 - [28] Think about this carefully for a moment. If defenders are such a huge issue, why do everyone and their dog run L4 missions in Ravens or Navy Ravens?
Eleana Tomelac Gallente	Posted - 2007.10.05 08:59:00 - [29] My railguns are useless while tracking disrupted by sanshas, should I whine too? I don't like BS so I use HAS in lvl 4 missions, ECM hurts (low sensor strength on HAS), should I... I could find more... Never I heard any of my friends complain about defenders, when an NPC throws too much defenders, they just come at close range or laugh about the isk lost from defenders (no, we're not comparing wasted ammo for everyone when we run missions in group, not at all...). -- Pocket drone carriers (tm) enthousiast ! The Vexor Navy Issue is much more fun than the Myrmidon !
WisdomLikeSilence High4Life SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.05 09:31:00 - [30] Real men use guns. When they are not being damped. Oh and guns MISS (but mine dont :)

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