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Most large guns using 100m3 space in Sisi?

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 1 post(s)
Calimor Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.10.07 02:32:00 - [61] Because surely ratting needs a nerf. Yea.
Rodrigo Talavera	Posted - 2007.10.07 02:40:00 - [62] This is absurd. I can justify bumping a few compression modules up a bit so its hardly worth it, but this changes logistics totally.
Seramyr l'Ethia GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.10.07 02:47:00 - [63] Do not want.
murder one Gallente Blood Corsair's	Posted - 2007.10.07 03:39:00 - [64] I find this whole thing really amusing. People are like water. You leave little ***s in the system, they flow through them. No matter how small, how mundane the *s are, they find them and exploit them. This is what has been going on with logistics. Everything that is done in todays modern game of Eve with respect to manufacturing and logistics is a hack, a work around. You guys act like this change is only going to affect you and you alone. Of course it's not, it's going to affect everyone. Everything about ore compression/loot refining devalues the point of freighters and haulers and miners and the overall scheme of logistics. You're mad because it's not going to be easy anymore. Oh well. Ease of use devalues breaking supply lines as a war strategy. It devalues the loss of a battleship, or any ship for that matter, if they can be so easily replaced on the spot due to easy production materials derived from ratting/loot. CCP is slowly plugging the ***s in the design. It's going to take them a while longer to get it sorted out, but just maybe Alliances will be able to be strangled and choked into submission once their supply lines are cut and they can't build any more ships to defend themselves. Things won't be 'worse'. They'll be different. More difficult in some respects, but not worse. Commanders will value their assets more after this. Killing an enemy ship will be more meaningful after this. Instead of the never ending meat grinder that is todays combat model. These changes arn't going to dent ratting ISK that much. Mineral generation is going to move from ratting to mining, as it should be. Miners will have their roles become more important as a result. In the long run, once everything gets sorted out, it will be a better game. Sure, there will be some turmoil in the short term until everyone gets adjusted to the new systems, but it won't be like that forever. Maybe prices go up slightly due to more manpower requirements to actually deliver finished goods, but so what? Everyone will be paying the same prices. It's not like the playing field isn't level. Heck, it might even provide more opportunity for 'carebear' careers like professional freighter pilots etc. [07:13:55] doctorstupid2 > what do i train now? [07:14:05] Trista Rotnor > little boys to 2 Fleet Combat Ships
Jita TradeAlt	Posted - 2007.10.07 03:46:00 - [65] CCP really doesn't "get" Eve. Espescially all these nerfs to stuff no one ever complained about, while having tons and tons of issues that need to be worked out. Seriously, with all the talk about time sinks, freightering everywhere etc. then I'm not sure why I'll bother wasting my money playing this "game". At least for carebearing I might as well just be at work, it's more fun and pays a lot more.
Anaalys Fluuterby Caldari	Posted - 2007.10.07 03:50:00 - [66] Edited by: Anaalys Fluuterby on 07/10/2007 03:53:15 I am utterly fricken confused. 1600 plates are 100, 100 plates are 5? Small armor repairers are 50? Cap Rechargers are still 5, "micro" auxilary power control is 50? Small NOS 5? Medium 25? Large 100? WTF CCP? First you tell us that you are nerfing mission and ratting rewards and want to give us the cash via drops instead. Then you complain that there is too high a return for melting down items, then you go and make it so you can't even loot a mission? How the hell is a beginning character supposed to loot their missions to gain cash in thier < 100m3 FRIGATE? And how the hell are inventors supposed to gather enough crap to actually build anything? What!?!?!?!? 650mm Artillery is 100m3 but 720 is only 50? Someone seriously needs to get their act together. I think this is about the only time I've actually been **ed about a change, this one is stupid. I can only hope that the import went wrong and the wrong numbers were transposed into that field. Originally by:** CCP Chronotis Since this thread continues to fight against the people who derail it into the macro miners witchhunt. I will move it to features and ideas discussion where ...
Antonia Nambaun	Posted - 2007.10.07 04:36:00 - [67] Guess where this lies on a scale of 1 to ********!
Banlish Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.07 05:23:00 - [68] I've never been on to fight a CCP induced change. But this is simply too much. This is a GAME as such it doesn't have to be 100% as close to life as possible. Why the hell do we need to spend hundreds of man hours to make a few ships, or build a few modules. Out in 0.0 it's IMPOSSIBLE to make things work as intended and now your fixing a problem NO ONE wants fixed? Come on. Unless your giving us "Super Dark Amazing Veld" which per 333 gives like 10,000 Trit we do NOT need this sorta stuff happening. EVE is a game, let it be fun. We don't want to have players that need 40 to 50 hours per week to be able to actually do anything meaningful in the game. To CCP: No one asked for this 'fix' yet you have ppl from ALL alliances asking you NOT to do it (go ahead and look in this thread from BoB to Goons, From Tri to Razor all are saying, with mabye 1% agreeing, that this is a universally BAD idea) again we're asking DO NOT DO THIS TO US. To the Players reading this: Want to stop something like this? Do NOT swear CCP out, don't make a mockery of them, don't insult them. Ask them not to and TELL EVERYONE YOU KNOW in game, in your corp, in your intel channels, in your alliance and even in local. Tell them to come to this thread and sign their name that this is a BAD idea and we as the players DO NOT WANT IT There is nothing to gain from this other then MORE time in game being spent to get something done. Want to be proactive? Get your entire alliance to sign onto this thread and say "No thanks!" Hell a few thousand signatures stopped this disaster from happening last time. Maybe 10k+ will get it through to CCP that we want this game to be fun and not a job. Respectfully -Banlish CEO Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Head Diplomat
Keldjos Falzir GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.10.07 05:45:00 - [69] This is utterly foolish. And unecessary. I want a Dev to answer the quetion that everyone is asking, directly or not: How does this make the game more fun? "Realism" is great. Until you realize that 0.0 production, even on the small scale, requires such a ridiculous ammount of effort and man hours moving minerals already that it's just barely worth it. People burn out doing production. Fire the economist. Or better, have him look at market data for all the 0.0 regions. Find out which character are making/selling the most in 0.0 areas, and TALK TO THEM. That will give you a pretty good picture of what does and does not work.
Alias11 GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.10.07 06:07:00 - [70] CCP: I'm going to say three things: 1. This Change Makes the Game Less Fun 2. That is a very bad thing. 3. Fire this economist. I'm sure he's very good at being a real life economist but he really doesn't seem to know how the eve economy functions

Alekanderu GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.10.07 06:13:00 - [71] This is a horrible "fix" for a non-existant problem. It will make the game even harder and less accessible for new players, it will make more existing players burn out and quit the game and it will make the game a lot more frustrating and a lot less fun for the people who stay.
murder one Gallente Blood Corsair's	Posted - 2007.10.07 06:19:00 - [72] Loving all the e-rage. So fun to not be on the recieving end of a big kick to the balls. [07:13:55] doctorstupid2 > what do i train now? [07:14:05] Trista Rotnor > little boys to 2 Fleet Combat Ships
Rajius GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.10.07 06:19:00 - [73] This is a really, REALLY terrible idea. Just...no.
Kyrie Elaison GoonFleet	Posted - 2007.10.07 06:45:00 - [74] Originally by: murder one I find this whole thing really amusing. People are like water. You leave little ***s in the system, they flow through them. No matter how small, how mundane the *s are, they find them and exploit them. This is what has been going on with logistics. Everything that is done in todays modern game of Eve with respect to manufacturing and logistics is a hack, a work around. You guys act like this change is only going to affect you and you alone. Of course it's not, it's going to affect everyone. Everything about ore compression/loot refining devalues the point of freighters and haulers and miners and the overall scheme of logistics. You're mad because it's not going to be easy anymore. Oh well. Ease of use devalues breaking supply lines as a war strategy. It devalues the loss of a battleship, or any ship for that matter, if they can be so easily replaced on the spot due to easy production materials derived from ratting/loot. CCP is slowly plugging the ***s in the design. It's going to take them a while longer to get it sorted out, but just maybe Alliances will be able to be strangled and choked into submission once their supply lines are cut and they can't build any more ships to defend themselves. Things won't be 'worse'. They'll be different. More difficult in some respects, but not worse. Commanders will value their assets more after this. Killing an enemy ship will be more meaningful after this. Instead of the never ending meat grinder that is todays combat model. These changes arn't going to dent ratting ISK that much. Mineral generation is going to move from ratting to mining, as it should be. Miners will have their roles become more important as a result. In the long run, once everything gets sorted out, it will be a better game. Sure, there will be some turmoil in the short term until everyone gets adjusted to the new systems, but it won't be like that forever. Maybe prices go up slightly due to more manpower requirements to actually deliver finished goods, but so what? Everyone will be paying the same prices. It's not like the playing field isn't level. Heck, it might even provide more opportunity for 'carebear' careers like professional freighter pilots etc. Shouldn't you still be whining over increased cpu use for t2 eanms?
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2007.10.07 06:48:00 - [75] Originally by: Shadowsword Edited by: Shadowsword on 06/10/2007 21:43:36 Tested hunting in belts: the Npcs still drop T1 mods, with 100m3. killed a 500k BS, looted what reprocess well: a 100mn ab, a 1600 plate, a dual 425mm autocanon. Guess what? cargo three-quarters full. Start grinding your standings, it looks like you're going to do missions in high-sec to replace your ships... Because you think the loot in level 4 mission will be smaller? It (depending on missions) around 1/3 of the reward. While it is logic (some of the modules are really small for what they are), it will encourage mission and rat farming for the bouties and no one recovering the loot. I see big trubles for the new players that can't use an industrial.
Alias11 GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.10.07 07:00:00 - [76] murder one I can take that as a vote of confidence because you're probably one of the most consistently out of it people in the game. About a tie between you and jenny spitfire
Moctobot GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.10.07 07:12:00 - [77] how many petitions have been sent because people cant move as their cargo is too full so far
Twilight Moon Minmatar Malicious Intentions Cult of War	Posted - 2007.10.07 07:19:00 - [78] What the ****?? CCP, you make me cry...
Tetsujin GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.10.07 07:20:00 - [79] You know we have a little running joke over at Goonfleet; It takes many forms but the general idea is that with every major update the developers of this game somehow mess something up massively and clearly not by accident. Personally I think a few of them should check themselves into the closest hospital for an MRI scan. We've been going through Sisi and the ideas for the next major move and everything was looking golden. Comments like, "Maybe CCP won't **** anything up this time..." were starting to take shape. And then someone noticed this.
Deva Blackfire D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.10.07 07:21:00 - [80] (didnt read whole thread) There is another problem. T2 production. Usually i needed 1 run with hauler to move all components (rarely 2 moves) for 200-300 t2 mods. Now ill need 3-5 moves O_o. Thats a bit stupid...

Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2007.10.07 07:21:00 - [81] Originally by: Elmicker [ Originally by: Manufakturka Really, get a f* freighter and do your logistics the proper way That comment is up there with "Use the correct dread". Well, if you want to siege a POS with BS only, your joy. For big hauling use a freigther, it is meant for that. And there are the new Jump capable freighter too.
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2007.10.07 07:26:00 - [82] Originally by: tlAtoucS nooGAtoN Edited by: tlAtoucS nooGAtoN on 07/10/2007 02:34:22 Edited by: tlAtoucS nooGAtoN on 07/10/2007 02:27:31 Oh, man, ok, one thing. If this is supposed to be reducing the efficiency of mineral compression, why t1 large mods? Seriously what the fuck? If you want to mess with that, nerf passive targeters, armor explosive hardeners, and tractor beams, and stop listening to the economist who doesn't actually know much about the game you hired as a dumb gimmick to try and get those sweet real newspaper namedrops Second Life is always getting. E: You know what, I've already quit your ****ty game anyway. Who cares? Screw it up some, despite issues that have been around from the beta being ignored all the time. Age of Conan is going to be a much better PvP-centric MMO than this click a button and wait piece of crap anyway. Too bad it took me two years to realize that! Very simple reason: large guns are some of the items with a compression > to 20:1.
Anaalys Fluuterby Caldari	Posted - 2007.10.07 07:31:00 - [83] Originally by: Venkul Mul Very simple reason: large guns are some of the items with a compression > to 20:1. Since I have never made one: Does a SMALL armor repairer need 50m3 of minerals to build? Originally by: CCP Chronotis Since this thread continues to fight against the people who derail it into the macro miners witchhunt. I will move it to features and ideas discussion where ...
Avos Sova	Posted - 2007.10.07 07:31:00 - [84] Worst Change Ever
Anaalys Fluuterby Caldari	Posted - 2007.10.07 07:32:00 - [85] Originally by: Venkul Mul Well, if you want to siege a POS with BS only, your joy. For big hauling use a freigther, it is meant for that. And there are the new Jump capable freighter too. Except now CCP is saying for ANY hauling use a freighter. Even "normal" stuff that I have 100s of laying around in my hanger bays. Originally by: CCP Chronotis Since this thread continues to fight against the people who derail it into the macro miners witchhunt. I will move it to features and ideas discussion where ...
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2007.10.07 07:38:00 - [86] Originally by: Anaalys Fluuterby Originally by: Venkul Mul Well, if you want to siege a POS with BS only, your joy. For big hauling use a freigther, it is meant for that. And there are the new Jump capable freighter too. Except now CCP is saying for ANY hauling use a freighter. Even "normal" stuff that I have 100s of laying around in my hanger bays. From what I have seen so far it is: you want to haul 100 large guns you need a industrial, 100 capital pieces go for freighters, 100 small guns can still be moved with a BC if you need. It is not so stupid as most of the posters think.
Angelus Damelon Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.10.07 07:57:00 - [87] Originally by: Alias11 CCP: I'm going to say three things: 1. This Change Makes the Game Less Fun 2. That is a very bad thing. 3. Fire this economist. I'm sure he's very good at being a real life economist but he really doesn't seem to know how the eve economy functions All of this. I really can't understand this change as anything other than an attempted mineral compression nerf. If you're going to do that, screw around with the mineral value of the items at least -- increasing the volume not only screws over ratters and missioners (forces them to have a hauler alt to clean up after them and probably won't be worth the effort/risk) but also T2 production, importation, carrier refitting, and all the other things mentioned in this thread. CCP's changes over the course of Rev 2 and, it appears, Rev 3, have been been unusually excellent -- even changes that I dislike (POS sov limits, which are ineffective solutions to POS spam) or that have no interest in (heat), I mostly understand them at least. But their more recent commentary and ideas on tweaking mineral markets, paired with the simplistic and out of touch economist blogs, are really disconcerting.
Malhom 3B Legio IX Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.07 09:34:00 - [88] Why CCP don¦t ask people playing every day along moths and/or years about what they think that could be improved? CCP guys this proposal is really a bad idea.
Cleopatrra Gallente Swag Co. Endless Horizon	Posted - 2007.10.07 09:44:00 - [89] ok i have to chime in on this one. Will all the nerfs as of late its left me wondering. Who is driving this crazy ship. I mean Time and time again CCP has stated that EVE is a sandbox for us to play in and do what ever we want. Now I realize sometimes things don't exactly work out as planned so there needs to be some kind of change to the item/mechanic to adjust the problem. We all realize that and get upset when we loose our BFG9000. But with all the latest nerfs involving min compression and introducing the new indy cap. I have to ask what were you guys trying to do again. To me min compression should be completely legal. Some one got smart and figured out a nifty trick inside the mechanics. Whats wrong with that. Isn't that what were supposed to be doing? Instead of trying to find some glitch to exploit? Why punish people for working with in the boundary's that are set for us? Do you want to turn this into just another MMO that you are guided down a set road and then what peps find there "END GAME" play for about a month more and quit. Or hey do you wanna see what kinda clever trick someones got up there sleeve today? To me i though the latter is what this whole game is about. Why Stifle it? Isn't that just hurting your self in the end? I have no intention to be rude but man the way things are going lately. It really makes one wonder has some one had one to many beers over there? Swag Co.We Build the stuff you Steal
Tonto Auri	Posted - 2007.10.07 09:48:00 - [90] There's simple solution. Let's fill petition each time we need to haul loot to station. Guess that way CCP should review their "fix" to be at least affordable to 90% of subscribers. Right now my loot from one mission on TQ is about 20 T1 modules. When each module takes 100m3, there's a good 2k m3 volume of loot. To bring this crapheap to station I need hauler (stupid enough) or just forget them at place (more objects in space - more server lags and more database pressure). CCP, don't say You THAT stupid. -- Thanks CCP for cu<end of sig>



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