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UK review of violent video games effect on children lauched

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Velsharoon Gallente Endgame.	Posted - 2007.10.09 11:50:00 - [1] Waste of time I bet its conclusion is "games are fine if in moderation and the ratings are stuck to". I could tell them that for a fiver.
Mudkest MetaForge Ekliptika	Posted - 2007.10.09 11:54:00 - [2] shrugs appearantly even in the middle ages parrents were concerned about the violent games of their children playing with wooden swords Kids play wargames, nothing you can do about it. Take away the toy guns and video games and theye'll find a stick and use it as a sword or gun and still go on a killing spree. ----- GIEV custom ship paint jobs! I want my hello-kitty-kessie!
Spoon Thumb Paladin Imperium Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.09 11:59:00 - [3] Edited by: Spoon Thumb on 09/10/2007 12:01:08 I read in new scientist that successive studies have proved beyond a doubt that TV, Video games and Film all have very negative effects on society in encouraging violent behaviour etc etc. Gimme a minute and I'll see if I can find a link. edit: Linkage - unfortunately you need to subscribe to NS to get the whole thing, but IIRC from when I read it, what I said above is the upshot of the article I believe games/film/tv do have -ve consequences but we as a society aren't mature enough to really be arsed to deal with it Khaldari Quote: You have already posted an message 331054 hours ago, you need to wait till your 24 hour period has ended before you can post another message.
Spoon Thumb Paladin Imperium Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.09 12:11:00 - [4] Some more links from New Scientist, the second article down in the search is shorter, but free Khaldari Quote: You have already posted an message 331054 hours ago, you need to wait till your 24 hour period has ended before you can post another message.
SoftRevolution	Posted - 2007.10.09 12:38:00 - [5] I think buying anyone the Fight Club game would probably encourage violent behaviour on their part, towards you.
Velsharoon Gallente Endgame.	Posted - 2007.10.09 12:40:00 - [6] Thing is children arent responsible, its the parents. Im have been playing eve full time for 4 years, playing other games for 13 or so. For me its been nothing but a good thing, but then again im not a moron.
Imperator Jora'h	Posted - 2007.10.09 12:47:00 - [7] Originally by: Velsharoon Thing is children arent responsible, its the parents. This. It is up to parents to deal with what their children are exposed to. Will your kid go to a friend's house and play Manhunt or GTA? Probably but as a parent you can still certainly limit their exposure. You can also discuss with the friend's parents that you do not want your kid playing certain things. And to some extent I find these studies to be dodgy. Certainly some kids get hyper after playing and tend to rough house more. But then do they go out and poleaxe their buddy on the playground? Barring one or two cases no.
SoftRevolution	Posted - 2007.10.09 13:06:00 - [8] Originally by: Imperator Jora'h Originally by: Velsharoon Thing is children arent responsible, its the parents. This. It is up to parents to deal with what their children are exposed to. Will your kid go to a friend's house and play Manhunt or GTA? Probably but as a parent you can still certainly limit their exposure. You can also discuss with the friend's parents that you do not want your kid playing certain things. And to some extent I find these studies to be dodgy. Certainly some kids get hyper after playing and tend to rough house more. But then do they go out and poleaxe their buddy on the playground? Barring one or two cases no. You can't just leave it up to the parents to police. People are stupid. People work long hours. Some people shouldn't be allowed dogs, let alone children. There's also the question of whether this represents some wider societal ill. I'm not absolving parents of all responsibility here, just saying I can see why they would want some sort of enquiry. A study that just measures the immediate effect isn't a very well designed study.
Imperator Jora'h	Posted - 2007.10.09 13:32:00 - [9] Originally by: SoftRevolution You can't just leave it up to the parents to police. People are stupid. People work long hours. Some people shouldn't be allowed dogs, let alone children. There's also the question of whether this represents some wider societal ill. I'm not absolving parents of all responsibility here, just saying I can see why they would want some sort of enquiry. Who else should police it? Do you really want a Nanny State telling you that only Hello Kitty and its ilk are ok? Millions of people play video games and violence is not notably worse since their inception. Indeed in the past years violent crime has been decreasing overall in the US (still far too high of course but that is another discussion). Parents, even very busy ones, can play a very active and central role in their children's lives. They obviously cannot (nor should they) hover over the kid's shoulder 24/7 but they can make it clear what their expectations are for when they are not around. I have seen some good parents do this. Of course there are all too many bad examples of parents out there too. You need a license to drive a car, you even need a license to fish but they will let any ******* become a parent. Go figure
SoftRevolution	Posted - 2007.10.09 14:30:00 - [10] I think you might have lost the "Nanny State" argument the day you were born in the UK. An enquiry isn't the same thing as legislating. If it can be shown that there is a causal link between playing violent games would you really have them not do anything about it? The current evidence on the subject is so confused I'd actually welcome a well run study with more conclusive trustworthy results because the current information just encourages waffle and bull****. That there is currently a question says to me a study is needed. Personally I don't find either the "Violent computer games are a moral outrage and are corrupting our youth" or the "Censorship is wrong. This stuff is up to parents. I gamed for years and there is nothing wrong with me." default partisan positions satisfactory. Not without better information at least.
Imperator Jora'h	Posted - 2007.10.09 14:48:00 - [11] Originally by: SoftRevolution An enquiry isn't the same thing as legislating. If it can be shown that there is a causal link between playing violent games would you really have them not do anything about it? Inquiry and legislating are two different things but our legislators are FAR from critical discerners of truth. They go whichever way the wind blows. In the US over the past few years we have had shocking restrictions placed on our constitutionally guaranteed rights. Yet enough are ok with this and scream at their legislators that they get passed. Despite the fact that I am FAR more likely to be killed by my own parents or die in a car crash than a terrorist. Such studies are often quoted and used out of context to support someone's pet position. Most people will not read the whole thing or understand what the numbers really tell you. They will get snippets and soundbites and scream for change which often is a poor way to do things. Personally I am not sure a study such as this can be done well. And indeed I am not sure you need to at all. I think the evidence is already there. Has violent crime trended upwards since the inception of violent video games? Do you see even a blip in car jacking or other violent crime shortly after the release of games such as GTA? Has school yard violence (even just minor fist fights) trended upwards since violent video games have been out? All those numbers are already out there to be read. If you come back with clear evidence that yeah, violence has gone up, fights occur more and they all track with the release of video games I think you have a strong case. There are many factors involved in what brings someone to violence but this would at least be strongly suggestive and demand a closer look. As I mentioned before though violent crime has in fact been decreasing overall in the US over the past decade and yet violent video games have become more ubiquitous. Perhaps they act as an outlet for violent tendencies. Rather than bashing a real guy's head in you blow stuff up in a video game instead. Who knows?
Mtthias Clemi Gallente Infinitus Odium The Church.	Posted - 2007.10.09 14:48:00 - [12] Its down to the individual. I spent probably 24 hours playing halo since it was released.. do i want to kill people? no... do i play anything but violent games? no i don't, and i STILL don't feel violent. What makes me violent is when stupid people get in my way! i forget my point. I mean its not like you could have a test to see if someones totally stupid before you sell them stuff like violent games... thats not a bad idea come to think of it. Just reminds me of dougal from father ted getting confused between reality and dreams. -------------------------------------------- Stay away from my signature all of ya!!! IM WARNING YOU!! PEW PEW PEW PEW!
ReaperOfSly Gallente Lyrus Associates M. PIRE	Posted - 2007.10.09 14:50:00 - [13] There are some games like Manhunt, where the objective is to murder people in as bloody and brutal a manner as possible. It is rated 18, but who over the age of 18 would WANT to play a game like that? I have never understood the appeal of such a thing. The problem comes when games such as this DO get banned. It sets a precedent which ends with everyone playing Hello Kitty online, because everything else has been banned. Ooooh, you can't play eve any more - it has laser pewpew violence in it. --------------------------------------------------------------------
SoftRevolution	Posted - 2007.10.09 15:13:00 - [14] Edited by: SoftRevolution on 09/10/2007 15:15:17 Quote: All those numbers are already out there to be read. If you come back with clear evidence that yeah, violence has gone up, fights occur more and they all track with the release of video games I think you have a strong case. There are many factors involved in what brings someone to violence but this would at least be strongly suggestive and demand a closer look. Er... by that token you could justify studies into whether sugar free soft drinks or Channel 5 have caused a decrease in violent crime. You're not showing anything. Actually I'm just having a look at this and some of the graphs for violent crime go up! Oh my. Ban this sick death game now. What is interesting is that some of the existing studies appear to show or at least imply some sort of causal link between violent games and aggression in children. On the other hand some of them show no link whatsoever. Some of them show a decrease in prosocial behaviour but no increase in violent behaviour. So. Which is it? Why isn't that something worth looking into? I'm a game (ugh. Did I just identify pretending to fly spaceships around as a lifestyle choice?) and I think this needs answering. To my mind either there is no problem and a study will find this and then the "facts" are on our side or there is a problem and it's then up to the tools we voted in to decide what if any response is needed.
Mtthias Clemi Gallente Infinitus Odium The Church.	Posted - 2007.10.09 16:06:00 - [15] Edited by: Mtthias Clemi on 09/10/2007 16:06:56 Im a teenager, and i can tell you, im much more likely to be violent if you make me play Barbie games then let me play half life. Watching somone on tv blow people up doesnt make me want to blow people up, it makes me want to drink beer and eat pizza, however watching high school musical makes me want to beat people up... (someone who was violent because of a game was likely to be violent anyway, they would find an idea from somewhere else if not a game im sure.) sometimes i dont understand the bans that go on, they banned those rubbery liquid filled balled things that u swing around a few years back as a "potential hazard", as a result of that im going to kick a football into my mates face and break his nose, ban football you bastards. -------------------------------------------- Stay away from my signature all of ya!!! IM WARNING YOU!! PEW PEW PEW PEW!
Imperator Jora'h	Posted - 2007.10.09 16:45:00 - [16] Originally by: SoftRevolution Er... by that token you could justify studies into whether sugar free soft drinks or Channel 5 have caused a decrease in violent crime. No, not really. Certainly you need to be very careful of the causal relationships. Sugar free soft drinks have been around longer than video games. So has Channel 5. If you look at the statistics and see a trend upward when a game comes out that is suggestive. It may not be the whole answer but merits a closer look. It may well be you need to be more granular as well. Looking at national stats is fine but also look at school reports of violence. Maybe a playground brawl not worthy of involving the police but the schools will track that. Do you see a trend up there? More notably do you see spikes in the data that correlate to when certain games like GTA or Manhunter were released? If there is no blip in the stats then where is this supposed awful violence? That some moron here or there brains his little brother tells you nothing and certainly is not something to merit legislation. It is an aberration. If there is a societal impact the stats should show it.
Surfin's PlunderBunny Minmatar mUfFiN fAcToRy	Posted - 2007.10.09 16:52:00 - [17] Once again, Yahtzee comes through with a no BS (Bull**, not battleship ) assessment on this whole topic with his "Manhunt" review. Hooray YAHTZEE! Originally by:** Liz Kali Tic Toc Tic Toc , time is ticking I owned someone on forums!!!
SoftRevolution	Posted - 2007.10.09 17:59:00 - [18] Edited by: SoftRevolution on 09/10/2007 18:04:21 Originally by: Imperator Jora'h Originally by: SoftRevolution Er... by that token you could justify studies into whether sugar free soft drinks or Channel 5 have caused a decrease in violent crime. No, not really. Certainly you need to be very careful of the causal relationships. Sugar free soft drinks have been around longer than video games. So has Channel 5. If you look at the statistics and see a trend upward when a game comes out that is suggestive. It may not be the whole answer but merits a closer look. It may well be you need to be more granular as well. Looking at national stats is fine but also look at school reports of violence. Maybe a playground brawl not worthy of involving the police but the schools will track that. Do you see a trend up there? More notably do you see spikes in the data that correlate to when certain games like GTA or Manhunter were released? If there is no blip in the stats then where is this supposed awful violence? That some moron here or there brains his little brother tells you nothing and certainly is not something to merit legislation. It is an aberration. If there is a societal impact the stats should show it. Yeah. Precisely. "No, not really". It is the causal relationships you need to look at. I picked relatively recent events (dunno how long you've had Channel 5 ) as an example of how charting figures for crime or school violence against arbitrary dates doesn't show you a whole lot. I guess you could show that there was no correlation between the release of manhunt and a large spike in recorded classroom or schoolyard violence. That isn't the same thing as showing that there is no ill effect since as you say it's the causal relationship you're interested in. Ugh. Manhunt was a terrible computer game. I hope somebody puts a plastic bag over the lead designers face for making **ty, **ty games and selling them on the back of media furore.
lofty29 Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.10.09 18:01:00 - [19] Sigh. I've been playing violent video games since I was like 12. I got GTA3 at age 12. And look at me now, a respectable human being. What? Don't laugh --- Project Mayhem 2
Jago Kain Amarr Ramm's RDI	Posted - 2007.10.09 18:04:00 - [20] Edited by: Jago Kain on 09/10/2007 18:04:16 Originally by: ReaperOfSly There are some games like Manhunt, where the objective is to murder people in as bloody and brutal a manner as possible. It is rated 18, but who over the age of 18 would WANT to play a game like that? ... Erm... I would. Anybody remember Syndicate on the Amiga? The first time I used the flamethrower and watched a guy running down the street, screaming as he burnt, I near fell of my seat laughing. I'm not entirely sure what that says about me as a person, but I've not gone to the trouble to re-create anything of this ilk that I've seen in a video game... yet. Having said that, I did see a bunch of Hari Krishnas in Liverpool a few weeks back and experienced an almost overwhelming urge to run them all over to see if anyone shouted "Gouranga!". Is that perverse? The next revolution won't be televised; it'll be pod-cast.
Captain Hudson Caldari Intergalactic Space Defense Force	Posted - 2007.10.09 18:07:00 - [21] oh look my nanny state is trying to shield me again The Real Eve FanFest
lofty29 Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.10.09 18:08:00 - [22] Originally by: ReaperOfSly There are some games like Manhunt, where the objective is to murder people in as bloody and brutal a manner as possible. It is rated 18, but who over the age of 18 would WANT to play a game like that? Lulz. Ripped straight from ZeroPunctuation --- Project Mayhem 2
Kathryn Dougans	Posted - 2007.10.09 18:17:00 - [23] It's a bit foolish to believe that violent images in computer games or other media have absolutely no effect. The only thing that matters is if violence in games/tv/films etc. has an effect that is significant (in the statistical sense). If studying it finds this, then countermeasures can be put in place. E.g. if playing more than 10 hours/week has a measurable effect, then there could be advice to state that children shouldn't play for more than 10 hours/week. Also, I found these a while ago, I forget the original source and what it means, but it shows how you can attribute anything, given the right statistics. DOOM was released, and violent crime fell.
Grimpak Gallente Trinity Nova KIA Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.09 18:29:00 - [24] Originally by: Surfin's PlunderBunny Once again, Yahtzee comes through with a no BS (Bull****, not battleship ) assessment on this whole topic with his "Manhunt" review. Hooray YAHTZEE! yahtzee = win. --- planetary interaction idea!
Surfin's PlunderBunny Minmatar mUfFiN fAcToRy	Posted - 2007.10.09 19:15:00 - [25] Edited by: Surfin''s PlunderBunny on 09/10/2007 19:15:42 They really need to hire him to review everything that gets released "Pushing buttons to work a gun is as far from the workings of an actual gun as my ass from the far side of Europa" Originally by: Liz Kali Tic Toc Tic Toc , time is ticking I owned someone on forums!!!
lofty29 Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.10.09 19:17:00 - [26] Originally by: Surfin's PlunderBunny They really need to hire him to review everything that gets released "Pushing buttons to work a gun is as far from the workings of an actual gun as my ass from the far side of Europa" Indeed they do. I bet that tmorow he'll have a Team Fortress 2 review --- Project Mayhem 2
Mtthias Clemi Gallente Infinitus Odium The Church.	Posted - 2007.10.09 19:43:00 - [27] Originally by: lofty29 Sigh. I've been playing violent video games since I was like 12. I got GTA3 at age 12. And look at me now, a respectable human being. What? Don't laugh Lofty stole my car, used it to run me over then picked up a hooker and went to work for a drug lord!!! HE LIEEEEESSS!!! -------------------------------------------- Stay away from my signature all of ya!!! IM WARNING YOU!! PEW PEW PEW PEW!
Rialtor Amarr Yarrrateers Mass Destruction.	Posted - 2007.10.09 21:38:00 - [28] It's all kind of irrelevant at this point to even have that study. The video game industry is responsible in that they already have ratings. Even if the study concludes that violent video games are bad for kids, then all that would mean is that video games need to have ratings. But as we all know, video games already subject themselves to a rating system because it's good for business. In the end, alot of games are bought by parents, it makes market sense to rate games so parents can make an easy choice. Easy choice for parent = quicker sale. If the study concludes that games are bad for kids, and that leads to a banning of objectionable content in games, that's just stupid. Cigarettes and Alcohol are bad for kids too, but those are age limited, would you ban them? The argument to ban something because of objectionable material is usually a waste of time.
Nuala Reece Caldari Starlancers Insurgency	Posted - 2007.10.10 00:47:00 - [29] It's been a while since I was taught the basics of scientific study at school and university but when the lead researcher says Quote: "Video gaming and the internet themselves are a very positive and important part of children's and young children's growing up and learning and development. But it is also about saying where are the risks?" it makes me question - shouldn't she just do the study first and then see if there are risks after she has the results? Not that I'm suggesting that standards of scientific research are notably lower among tv psychologists than, say, real scientists - but saying things like that does kind of suggest she's already got an opinion (agenda?) which may bias her findings. The remit seems a bit wide also - either they're studying the effects of game violence on behaviour or they're studying the material that children can gain access to on the internet. But both together? I'm finding it hard to see where the connection between the two might be, other than some kind of (checks cynicism hat is firmly in place) politically motivated attempt at guilt by association - almost as if someone suspects that there may not be a significant link between playing violence in games and behaving violently in real life and so will need to manufacture a spurious 'risk' instead. My favourite opinion on the general subject came from an episode of Question Time a few years ago (that time they were discussing how children watching violent tv and film might be a cause for violent behaviour). One of the audience suggested he thought the portrayal of violence on tv did have an effect, because young people could see on the news every day how quickly our governments resort to violence and the use of force to solve their problems - he felt that we might look to that first before we blame films, games and music. Starlancers http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/NualaReece/starlancers_ad.avi
Imperator Jora'h	Posted - 2007.10.10 02:33:00 - [30] Originally by: SoftRevolution I picked relatively recent events (dunno how long you've had Channel 5 ) Channel 5 where I am is NBC in Chicago and it has been here as long as I have been alive (longer than I care to admit).

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