| Pages: 1 [2] 3 :: one page |
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Alpine 69
Slacker Industries
Exuro Mortis
   |
Posted - 2007.10.10 20:37:00 -
[31]
An awesome post, keep them comming.
Sweet love for the ones that mod my sig <3 
From her? You're on.  -Rauth |
Wraithstorm
Elite Storm Enterprises
Storm Armada
|
Posted - 2007.10.10 20:44:00 -
[32]
Nothing shot of an amaizing read. Please keep this coming.
Thank you
|
Neslo
Gallente
DarkStar 1
|
Posted - 2007.10.10 20:45:00 -
[33]
Good post.
From Ashes to Ashes... From Dust to Dust.... |
Mongolia Jones
Exanimo Inc
Triumvirate.
|
Posted - 2007.10.10 21:04:00 -
[34]
A very good read, I have enjoyed reading CAOD these last couple of days, thanks to you
 Originally by: WhatIsItGoodFor
Why does this matter to the current War?
It is my argument that this War is unique, in that the remaining major players (BoB/MC and the RSF) are vulnerable only to removal through blunt force. This is the first sovereignty war in which this is the case, and it may be the last for quite some time after.
I agree with you 50% here. I do feel that the RSF are only vulnerable to blunt force which is what makes fighting them especially scary.
Where I disagree with you is on BoB/MC. I'm of the belief that they are especially vulnerable to a low morale and a low desire to fight.
Let me explain...
Alliances like BoB, MC and I'll include my own here, TRI, are built around being "elite" entities. They only recruit/accept the best pvpers and the egos that go with them. The pressures involved with sustaining such a status should not be underestimated.
There is pressure on pilots to perform (high k/d ratios.)
There is pressure on pilots to fly proper ships in fleets (T2 BS's, CS's, HAC's.)
There is pressure on leaders/FC's to perform (bring victory vs larger forces/against the odds.)
Unfortunately for BoB/MC, in this current war, time is against them. The longer RSF survives, the stronger they get in relation to BoB/MC. RSF leaders/FCs improve their tactics by fighting superior foes. RSF grunts individually become better pilots for the same reason and goon nubs are training key pvp skills from 3 to 4 to 5, closing the -time in game- gap. And lastly, the income potential of pilots/corps/alliances have time to increase, which of course equates to fielding more and more T2 ships in fleet ops.
If ever in this conflict RSF, especially the goons, can close the all important k/d ratio, I don't see BoB/MC leaders/pilots logging on in large numbers to continue the fight. For an "elite" to lose more and more of your own T2 ships while causing less and less losses to an enemy (especially an "inferior" enemy) can be unbearable.
|
ArrogantGod
|
Posted - 2007.10.10 21:29:00 -
[35]
Originally by: WhatIsItGoodFor
Now that I have, once again, used entirely too many words to define the simple term of "alliance death"
It would have been much easier to simply state that:
Leadership collapse = alliance/corp death.
Morale collapse = loss of members.
Military/Economic defeat = loss of territory.
Collapses at the top of the chain always trigger downward collapses. Collapses at the bottom often trigger upwards collapses. But often defeats only result in small losses of membership -- a culling of the herd if you will.
The true strength of any corp/alliance is not in it's military/economic power, but it it's morale.
BoB will not die because they have created a culture of hubris. They are some of the most experienced and best pilots in the game. A few defeats will not change this. They feed off being good at what they do. Even if they are defeated by a vastly larger force, they will still be good at what they do.
Goons will not die because they have created a culture of failure. They are some of the worst pilots and proud of it. They feed off laughing at silliness, even if they are brunt of the joke. There is immense strength in this tactic. They can never lose because for them losing is winning.
|
Elliott Manchild
omen.
Triumvirate.
|
Posted - 2007.10.10 21:29:00 -
[36]
Good read once again! Hope the next is as good :)
|
Jakus Cemendur
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
|
Posted - 2007.10.10 21:31:00 -
[37]
Brilliant read, these threads are very fascinting to those EVE players like myself who not yet ventured into 0.0
|
Patch86
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Atlas Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.10.10 21:36:00 -
[38]
tl;ra (too long; read anyway)
Another nice post (or, er, set of posts). Can't wait for the rest of the series!
------
Originally by: CCP Prism X
There's no such thing as playing too much EvE!
You all obviously need more accounts! |
WhatIsItGoodFor
Absolutely Nothin
|
Posted - 2007.10.10 22:46:00 -
[39]
Originally by: N'olive
By the way, one should also count UNL in the RSF as major player, they've always been there, they hold 4 stations, can field some pretty fleets, and they were in all the major battles, and the minor too.
First, I do want to note that the choice of "major players" does not indicate military performance, participation, or some sort of "rank" among their allies. As you've noted, UNL has done quite a bit in conjunction with RSF -- I'm not evaluating how close they are with three RSF alliances, nor how strong they are in combat or POS warfare. If I were, I'd also have implied that AAA was weak and would have to spend the rest of my life looking over my shoulder in case Evil Thug was behind me. 
|
Inquis Eisenhorn
MDK Syndicate
Knights Of the Southerncross
|
Posted - 2007.10.10 23:10:00 -
[40]
Very good read, high quality unlike most threads these day.
A ships a fool to fight a station |
Kaninrail
Caldari
Ars ex Discordia
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2007.10.11 00:34:00 -
[41]
Extremely good read. Looking forward to the next installment. o7
--------------------------------------
|
Johnny ReeRee
The ReeRee Brigade
|
Posted - 2007.10.11 00:40:00 -
[42]
Future events will prove a main thesis of the OP to be incorrect. BoB and large alliances like this will not fall strictly to blunt trauma, but leadership fatigue and lack of confidence in leadership will sap the will of rank and file to resist. Just because some leaders have been replaced doesn't mean that they can therefore endlessly churn leaders and be okay. Eventually, they will stumble on the right combination of leaders who succeed in royally screwing things up. BoB may be there right now, in fact.
It's sort of the Eve version of the Peter Principle. The institutional/ethnic bonds governing alliance formation are not particularly strong (though they may be in some cases); alliances tend to be oriented around charismatic personalities. When those are gone or the luster on them fades, new alignments are made, sometimes radically different.
|
De Vito
Mythos Corp
RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.10.11 01:08:00 -
[43]
nice one :)
Eμπiστoσύνη δε xaρiζετaι, kaτakτiέτai |
Natas Dog
Caldari
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2007.10.11 01:29:00 -
[44]
Edited by: Natas Dog on 11/10/2007 01:32:26
Edited by: Natas Dog on 11/10/2007 01:30:38
Originally by: Johnny ReeRee
Future events will prove a main thesis of the OP to be incorrect. BoB and large alliances like this will not fall strictly to blunt trauma, but leadership fatigue and lack of confidence in leadership will sap the will of rank and file to resist. Just because some leaders have been replaced doesn't mean that they can therefore endlessly churn leaders and be okay. Eventually, they will stumble on the right combination of leaders who succeed in royally screwing things up. BoB may be there right now, in fact.
It's sort of the Eve version of the Peter Principle. The institutional/ethnic bonds governing alliance formation are not particularly strong (though they may be in some cases); alliances tend to be oriented around charismatic personalities. When those are gone or the luster on them fades, new alignments are made, sometimes radically different.
Twice in one night we agree, what is this world coming to?
Goons have been extremely lucky in the fact that our leadership handoffs have gone relatively well. The Mittani left on pretty ****ty terms, but even he was quick to admit he wasn't cut out to be a leader. I'd be interested to see what becomes of BoB or MC if Molle or Seleene decide to hand the reigns off.
Edited for clarity
_______________________________________________________________
He who laughs last... is usually the one the joke was about. |
paracidic
Confederation of Red Moon
Red Moon Federation
|
Posted - 2007.10.11 02:43:00 -
[45]
I can't believe that I read the whole thing.
It was an incredibly well written and detailed piece. However it has one glaring and major fault.
There is a third dynamic for which you have completely failed to account for.
CCP
What if any changes are coming?
Will the bend to the will of the RSF and nerf the fighters or will they realize that they over nerfed supercaps and make them immune to interdictors? TBH, CCP is like a referee in a sporting event, they have the power to completely turn the tide of the game and influence the outcome perhaps with more clarity then the players themselves.
The 2 changes I suggested may well be enough imputus for either side to make significant gains or failures.
And as we all know we are completely subjected to the whims and wills of CCP.
***********************************************
Everything ever written by a goon or DS1 member is absolutely factual and should not be challanged in anyway. |
WhatIsItGoodFor
Absolutely Nothin
|
Posted - 2007.10.11 02:51:00 -
[46]
Originally by: paracidic
There is a third dynamic for which you have completely failed to account for.
CCP
Game developments (both past and future) are also going to get their own segment. I haven't gone into that yet because it isn't particularly relevant to the claims made in this thread. Even if mechanics changed to shift momentum for one side or the other, I still expect that the loser will need to be forcibly removed from 0.0.
|
Avernus
Gallente
Imperium Technologies
Firmus Ixion
|
Posted - 2007.10.11 03:18:00 -
[47]
Love the post, an excellent addition to your first one, and I'm looking forward to the rest of the series.
Kudos for the very objective posts. (Wouldn't mind knowing who your main is when the series is done)
There are old soliders, and there are bold soliders. But there are very few old, bold soliders. |
Liet Traep
Minmatar
Black Lance
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
|
Posted - 2007.10.11 03:55:00 -
[48]
Originally by: ArrogantGod
Originally by: WhatIsItGoodFor
Now that I have, once again, used entirely too many words to define the simple term of "alliance death"
It would have been much easier to simply state that:
The true strength of any corp/alliance is not in it's military/economic power, but it it's morale.
BoB will not die because they have created a culture of hubris. They are some of the most experienced and best pilots in the game. A few defeats will not change this. They feed off being good at what they do. Even if they are defeated by a vastly larger force, they will still be good at what they do.
BoB is not unique. I don't feel that they are immune to the same trends that affect others. BoB has had some strong reversals recently enough tho shatter confidence in a lesser alliance but they've also had some successes. Losses in Feyth and up north while disheartening weren't experienced directly by BoB pilots. What BoB is vulnerable to is the same thing EVERYONE is vulnerable. Win/Loss ratio. If BoB pilots queue up in their ships and lose them, they'll just come back the next day. But a continued series of losses, a continued loss of ships even if territory doesn't change hands can hurt them as it would anyone else. If you show up to a gang and every time you show up you lose a ship you stop showing up eventually. Without a prospect for success you give up. You must have hope.
It is possible to break BoB's morale like it is anyone else's in Eve. You just have to beat them in fights. Beat them, pop their ships and loot their mods. And do it over and over again until it affects their morale. BoB is very good and has excellent planning and FC's and experienced high skill pilots. They're not easy to beat even once. But if someone was able to keep handing them defeats regularly they'll fold like anyone else.
The only alliance I've seen that survive that and rebound has been RA. At one point I was sure they'd be snuffed off the map but look at them now. 99.9% of alliances could not have managed such a rebound. I'm not sure if BoB was in the same dire straits that they'd rebound so well. Excellent post. Enjoying it very much.
|
SpaceMoose
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2007.10.11 04:02:00 -
[49]
Goon reads Mittani's director blog,
Rolls alt and regurgitates blog onto COAD,
Receives mad props.
Still pretty thought provoking, nice read.
|
Atius Tirawa
Minmatar
Wreckless Abandon
Triumvirate.
|
Posted - 2007.10.11 04:30:00 -
[50]
Edited by: Atius Tirawa on 11/10/2007 04:30:56
very sharp, very good.
Being a 'question mark' is a good think methinks. 
|
Fader Bane
Black Knight Buccaneers
Daisho Syndicate
|
Posted - 2007.10.11 04:37:00 -
[51]
an excellent and rather objective work.
________________________________________
|
Xaeon
Murder-Death-Kill
|
Posted - 2007.10.11 05:14:00 -
[52]
A nice read, keep them coming 
Chapter VII 23/06/07 |
Zalos Avra
Imperial Academy
|
Posted - 2007.10.11 05:56:00 -
[53]
Nice read.
With the major players occupying a notable amount of conquerable space, how do you envisage the effects of newly arriving alliances/corporations on the field? More importantly, you have noted that both sides have vast expanses in which they can retreat. What happens when younger parties take advantage of this space and decide to settle there.
Of course, the major players can assign some amount of their resources to prevent this leaking in of new alliances/corporations in what is considered their recuperation space. Question is how many of these intrusions each side can withstand before the resources required to counter these 'attacks' become detrimental to their war effort?
This problem will only increase as 'pets' are removed and the major power blocks consume more of sovereignty space. Can the two sides really advance to a state where they are the only remaining contestants?
|
Karanth
Gallente
Crazy 88's
|
Posted - 2007.10.11 08:19:00 -
[54]
Most excellent. I think I learned a few things here, that will serve me well in the weeks to come...
All that's left...
There is only one sig hijack that matters, the orginal and only member of the hijack squad. me. -Eris. ps Black russians are better then beer.
Well, there's not many of *us* left! -Rauth
|
Swanny231
KAOS.
KA0S Theory
|
Posted - 2007.10.11 09:10:00 -
[55]
Excellent Read !!!!! I can't believe I read all of that
I can't wait till the next segment.....
Keep em coming.
------------
This is my sig, there are many like this, but this one is mine !
Oh let's not forget I have been told I am the Token Black Guy Pfffft |
Gralgathor
White Wolf Enterprises
|
Posted - 2007.10.11 09:35:00 -
[56]
Very good essay once again. I hope the quality of your writings will maintain its high standard.
To the posters that disagree with the OP's assertion that BoB/MC is only susceptible to blunt force defeat, you fail to recognize that (as stated by another replier) BoB/MC's strength does not only come from their leadership and morale, but also from their sense of community. This provides them with sufficient cohesion to survive pretty much any and all morale-lowering events, including leadership crises.
I do believe the OP is correct in asserting that BoB/MC, like RSF, can only be defeated by blunt force.
-------
|
Sacrosanctus
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2007.10.11 09:42:00 -
[57]
If you have spies in goonfleet (who the hell doesn't) then go to the director's blogs and read The Mittani's. There's also a recording of storytime mittani that was posted in the war room (check sticky threads) that is worth listening to. The Mittani may be one of the more influential people in eve, though no one outside the GIA and RSF directorate really know. His account wasn't even active until today.
|
Barbaro55a
Caldari
Os Lobos
|
Posted - 2007.10.11 10:29:00 -
[58]
A very good read, also nice to see what apeares to be an impartial and accurate history of the war so far.
Can't wait for tomorrow
Originally by: ISD Valorem
If someone has hurt you out of game then please talk to family, friends or Police (if necessary)
Kind regards
Valorem
|
Waagaa Ktlehr
Amarr
Evolution
Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2007.10.11 10:46:00 -
[59]
Why are you hiding behind an alt? I see no reason to?
-
- |
Ozstar
Naughty 40
Triumvirate.
|
Posted - 2007.10.11 11:19:00 -
[60]
A good read.
---
Triumvirate |
| |
|
| Pages: 1 [2] 3 :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |