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mallina
Caldari
Sybrite Inc.
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Posted - 2007.10.11 12:26:00 -
[31]
Yeah, sitting in a belt and gatecamping are possibly the easiest ways to lose a carrier. If you're planning on using it solo, use it offensively rather than defensively (that is, to go OH HAI, I HAZ TANATOS *flashy effects* ontop of a pirate gatecamp or something) - but even that has it's risks.
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Tanaka Nari
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Posted - 2007.10.11 13:35:00 -
[32]
Carriers are Logistics platforms keeping damage dealers alive. Don't try to use them for damage or anything, they're just not made for it and they're not better at it than a BS. That said, the Chimera _can_ have an absolutely sick tank. Speaking as somebody who lost one under live circumstances, it took about 10-15 BS equivalents in damage dealers to break it.
The additional 50 cpu allow you to fit a triage module instead of a smartbomb with near identical tank, tanking is easier if you had cpu problems before.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2007.10.11 14:28:00 -
[33]
All carriers deal max 1000 DPS, Thanatos deals max 1250 DPS, at full skills and 5 DCUs.
Without DCUs at all, barely 500/625 DPS at max skills.
Damage-wise, it's no big deal, a gank BS can top that max easily for a fraction of the cost, and just about any ship can top that non-DCU value.
So, you should REALLY use a carrier for what's it actually good for... support.
Warfare link modules, remote energy/shield/armor, stuff like that.
Tanking yourself too is a secondary benefit, dealing some damage a distant tertiary benefit.
_
1|2|3 |
General Apocalypse
Amarr
The Merchant Marines
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Posted - 2007.10.11 14:28:00 -
[34]
 Originally by: Sokratesz
I've been curious for Archon setups myself, i've never flown one but i would fit it like this (if at all possible)
2x cap armor rep, 1x cap transfer 1x smartbomb, cloak
1x sensorbooster 1x eccm 2x cap recharger
2x repper, 2x eanm 1x dmg control 2x cap power relay
3x ccc rig
OMG no!
Usually an Archon is fitted like this .
2 X Capital Armor Repairer I
1 X Armor Thermic Hardener II
1 X Armor Kinetic Hardener II
1 X Armor Explosive Hardener II
1 X Damage Control II
1 X Capacitor Power Relay II
2-4 X Cap Recharger II
1-2 X Sensor Booster
2-3 X Drone Control Unit I
0-1 X Capital Energy Transfer Array I
1 X Heavy Unstable Power Fluctuator I
0-1 X Caldari Navy Large Graviton Smartbomb
1-3 X Trimark Armor Pump I
0-2 X Capacitor Control Circuit
14 Firblogs and a crapload of drones
Originally by: CCP Morpheus
nerf ccp plz
Originally by: CCP Oveur
To the gankmobile!
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General Apocalypse
Amarr
The Merchant Marines
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Posted - 2007.10.11 14:30:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Akita T
All carriers deal max 1000 DPS, Thanatos deals max 1250 DPS, at full skills and 5 DCUs.
Without DCUs at all, barely 500/625 DPS at max skills.
Damage-wise, it's no big deal, a gank BS can top that max easily for a fraction of the cost, and just about any ship can top that non-DCU value.
So, you should REALLY use a carrier for what's it actually good for... support.
Warfare link modules, remote energy/shield/armor, stuff like that.
Tanking yourself too is a secondary benefit, dealing some damage a distant tertiary benefit.
Someone hasn't been in fleet battle here . A carrier in the proper hands will be far more then bein a logistic ship , A guardina can do that at a fraction of the cost . If you whant to use it just as a giant guardina you're doing something wrong .
Originally by: CCP Morpheus
nerf ccp plz
Originally by: CCP Oveur
To the gankmobile!
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2007.10.11 14:55:00 -
[36]
Did I say "only use it for that" ?
I said what their main/secondary/tertiary benefits are.
It supports better as a logistics plus a command ship combined, it tanks better as any battleship, and it also deals some damage too.
Its MAIN benefit however is the support side, secondary is staying power (which reinforces the logistics side) and only last is the added benefit of being a damage dealer.
The pricetag is a direct consequence of all of that.
_
1|2|3 |
Laboratus
Gallente
BGG
League of Abnormal Gentlemen
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Posted - 2007.10.11 14:55:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Izo Azlion
Its really really not worth it.
Not for protecting miners, anyway...
Those are some horrid carrier pilots.
___
P.S.
Post with your main.
Mind control and tin hats |
Night Tripper
Es and Whizz
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Posted - 2007.10.11 15:23:00 -
[38]
Archon wins, 7 Expander IIs.
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Atomic Atty
Imperial Shipment
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Posted - 2007.10.11 15:25:00 -
[39]
Played a biut with EFT, here's an Archon fit :
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Sokratesz
Paradox v2.0
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Posted - 2007.10.11 15:56:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Atomic Atty
Played a biut with EFT, here's an Archon fit :
1) dont post images
2) thats a terrible fit
Paradox V2.0 is recruiting! |
Druadan
Gallente
Aristotle Enterprises
Ethereal Dawn
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Posted - 2007.10.11 16:50:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Sokratesz
Originally by: Atomic Atty
Played a biut with EFT, here's an Archon fit :
1) dont post images
2) thats a terrible fit
Yeah he should fit ECCM right?
###
I nearly finish carriers, and they nerf it.
I nearly finish Amarr recons, and they make them useless.
Vagabond pilots beware... I have bought Minmatar Cruiser. |
The GR8One
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Posted - 2007.10.11 19:08:00 -
[42]
In your particular situation I would urge you not to use a Carrier. It's just a bad idea and one that'll get your super-expensive ship blown up to protect much less expensive ships.
A lone carrier protecting a bunch of miners/carebears is just asking to get jumped. You might repel the first guy to try to jump your miners but he'll call his friends and they'll organize something to take you out.
The only thing I can think of if you REALLY HAVE TO do this is to not engage the pirates in person. Sit at a really safespot/POS...turn on the mining mindlinks...be the person to collect all the rocks...if bad guys jump your buddies, assign them fighters and let them sick the fighters on the bad guys.
A Capitol ship is a big juicy target for pirates and if you warp it into a fight without any ships to defend it...you're in for a world of hurt. I think a good rule of thumb is that Capitol Ships need to be defended by other ships not the other way around.
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Sokratesz
Paradox v2.0
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Posted - 2007.10.11 21:57:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Druadan
Originally by: Sokratesz
Originally by: Atomic Atty
Played a biut with EFT, here's an Archon fit :
1) dont post images
2) thats a terrible fit
Yeah he should fit ECCM right?
He should start with getting rig of the drone control units, and fitting gang mods instead (warfare links / rep mods). Second, he should fit at least one sensorboosters and consider an ECCM mod. Third, he needs to go with a lighter tank and fit 2x CPR instead. Fourth, he needs 3x CCC rigs.
Thats all, thank you, signatures out back after the show.
Paradox V2.0 is recruiting! |
madaluap
Gallente
Mercenary Forces
Exquisite Malevolence
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Posted - 2007.10.11 22:35:00 -
[44]
Originally by: General Apocalypse
Originally by: Sokratesz
I've been curious for Archon setups myself, i've never flown one but i would fit it like this (if at all possible)
2x cap armor rep, 1x cap transfer 1x smartbomb, cloak
1x sensorbooster 1x eccm 2x cap recharger
2x repper, 2x eanm 1x dmg control 2x cap power relay
3x ccc rig
OMG no!
Usually an Archon is fitted like this .
2 X Capital Armor Repairer I
1 X Armor Thermic Hardener II
1 X Armor Kinetic Hardener II
1 X Armor Explosive Hardener II
1 X Damage Control II
1 X Capacitor Power Relay II
2-4 X Cap Recharger II
1-2 X Sensor Booster
2-3 X Drone Control Unit I
0-1 X Capital Energy Transfer Array I
1 X Heavy Unstable Power Fluctuator I
0-1 X Caldari Navy Large Graviton Smartbomb
1-3 X Trimark Armor Pump I
0-2 X Capacitor Control Circuit
14 Firblogs and a crapload of drones
Its a carrier, that means its ment as remote support. Why fit it like that than?
Never flown the ship, but all carriers are fitted in the same way IMO:
2* cap remote armor rep
1* DCU or remote energy transfer
1* DCU or domination/republic large smartbomb
1* darkblood/true sansha large smarbomb
3* Caprecharger II
1* Sensorbooster II
2* capital armor rep
1* Armor Thermic Hardener II
1* Armor Kinetic Hardener II
1* Armor Explosive Hardener II
1* Damage Control II
1* Capacitor Power Relay II or energized adaptive and fit 3* CCC
CCC rigs to make setup stabile + trimark
Fighters: Combination of the minmatar fighters and some other fightertypes. Minmatar fighters are fast(er).
slaveset highly recommended
_________________________________________________
Breetime
A killmail!11!1 omgrawr: BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA |
kessah
Blood Corsair's
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Posted - 2007.10.11 23:03:00 -
[45]
I find *from a good conversation from Jacko in Red Skull* that in fact the best Carrier *for the true role of the carrier **SUPPORT*** the Nid, the one thats completely trashed in this thread it seems is the best carrier.
In small engagements you all think Thanatos becus of the dmg, but its about keeping your support alive, and nuffin from what i seen can do it better than a Nid in Triage.
The Nidhoggur, is by far my personal most wanted carrier in a fleet in my corp.
--------------------------------------------------------
[Video] Forever Pirate 3
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Draydin
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.10.12 04:13:00 -
[46]
Ive never piloted a mothership, nor do I have the skills to use one. But it occurs to me...
Couldnt you just get 4 drone control units and a cloak, then go sit in a safe spot (cloaked) while you give your drones to your mining buddies? Granted they would have to give up 2 mining drones each, but people would think twice about attacking when your miners have 14 fighters for defence.
Draydin > So, I'm going to fit my ship with nothing but lasers, cap rechargers, and heat sinks.
Pillazo > Thats crazy!
Draydin > Crazy like an amarr!
Pillazo > amarr arent crazy...
Drayin > O |
Niffetin
Gallente
CONsordium Infinate
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Posted - 2007.10.12 04:44:00 -
[47]
I would say Archon = Chimera > Nidhoggur = Thanatos.
(Even though I'm only few days off flying a Thanatos)
---
[WTS] Void L / Armageddon / Myrmidon / Antimatter XL / Mobile Large Warp Disruptor I |
Sokratesz
Paradox v2.0
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Posted - 2007.10.12 06:14:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Draydin
Couldnt you just get 4 drone control units and a cloak, then go sit in a safe spot (cloaked) while you give your drones to your mining buddies? Granted they would have to give up 2 mining drones each, but people would think twice about attacking when your miners have 14 fighters for defence.
If you cloak you lose control fo all drones in space.
The nid is vastly underrated indeed, but thats simple because no-one knows how to fit it.
Paradox V2.0 is recruiting! |
Sokratesz
Paradox v2.0
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Posted - 2007.10.12 06:17:00 -
[49]
Why people can still fit DCU's, silly tanks and anything other than ccc rigs on their carriers with a straight face is beyond me.
It's a support vessel and in turn it needs support to shine. This means your sole purpose is to keep your gang alive which requires alot of cap, thus you fit relays and ccc rigs. Your own damage is similar to that of a single gank battleship so not that special, while your own tank will be either 'holding easy' anyway, or be broken by xx dreads in siege, netting you nothing.
Paradox V2.0 is recruiting! |
Gamesguy
Amarr
D00M.
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.10.12 06:57:00 -
[50]
Edited by: Gamesguy on 12/10/2007 06:57:50
Originally by: Akita T
All carriers deal max 1000 DPS, Thanatos deals max 1250 DPS, at full skills and 5 DCUs.
Without DCUs at all, barely 500/625 DPS at max skills.
Damage-wise, it's no big deal, a gank BS can top that max easily for a fraction of the cost, and just about any ship can top that non-DCU value.
So, you should REALLY use a carrier for what's it actually good for... support.
Warfare link modules, remote energy/shield/armor, stuff like that.
Tanking yourself too is a secondary benefit, dealing some damage a distant tertiary benefit.
Uh, no thats just wrong. I cant be arsed to work out the numbers but my carrier tackling abaddon can tank 1550 average DPS without gang mods, and one of my corpmates with maxed out fighter/carrier skills and a thanatos can break my tank with pure damage.
Support? Do any of you actually participate in fleet fights? With damps on you you will have a lock time of 3 minutes when you try and rep say a bs, you wont be repping anything other than another carrier.
And no tackling gear? In capital fights at pos often support ships get wiped out and you have to tackle with capitals. I know pilots who fit scramblers on their dreads. Carriers should always have a decent scram and a SB or two, in addition to a neut or two, and gangmods, which vastly improve your tank.
And LOL at the core-x fit, you realize those armor hardeners and eanm will cost something in the neighborhood of 3-4billion?
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Laboratus
Gallente
BGG
League of Abnormal Gentlemen
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Posted - 2007.10.12 08:07:00 -
[51]
I've always found that carriers are very good at support. I've been in a lot of "oh **** I'm going down" -situations, dipping into structure and then getting hit by cap reps bringing me back up to full hp. It's just a matter of staying close to them and pre targetting...
___
P.S.
Post with your main.
Mind control and tin hats |
Sokratesz
Paradox v2.0
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Posted - 2007.10.12 08:23:00 -
[52]
A single ECCM mod warrants you with near-invulnerability versus jamming and if they play the upcoming damp nerf well, a single sensorbooster should give you 20 - 30km lock range and *reasonable* (under 60s) lock time on battleships with infinite damps on you, making them even better at remote repping than they are now.
Paradox V2.0 is recruiting! |
Bentula
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Posted - 2007.10.12 12:34:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Sokratesz
Why people can still fit DCU's, silly tanks and anything other than ccc rigs on their carriers with a straight face is beyond me.
It's a support vessel and in turn it needs support to shine. This means your sole purpose is to keep your gang alive which requires alot of cap, thus you fit relays and ccc rigs. Your own damage is similar to that of a single gank battleship so not that special, while your own tank will be either 'holding easy' anyway, or be broken by xx dreads in siege, netting you nothing.
This.
Carriers without remote support are worthless at the frontlines. Nobody will attack your carrier until after your support is dead anyway, if you cant prevent your support from dieing your extra drones from the Drone controls will not safe you.
Let me repeat that, you do not want your support to die. It is completly and utterly unimportant wether you do 500 or 1k dps, your fighters will get killed anyway once your support cant put enough pressure on the hostile support anymore.
Also that triage is is useless in 90% of situations atm. I mean seriously getting stuck for 10 mins ... You better be damn sure that there is no superior hostile force within 10 jumps, logged off or in cynorange. The only thing worse than carriers fitting triage are carriers fitting triage without remotesupport  .
Sorry for sounding harsh but i had to deal with too many stupid carrier pilots in the past who thought their role was to be a "h4Xor damagedealer". The only time carrier damage starts to matter is if you use them in groups, and then again if you want to use carriers in groups you want the spidertank.
P.S. A carrier is not able to protect miners, im pretty confident i could warp into a belt, wax a barge, and be out again before the carrier can do ****.
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Laboratus
Gallente
BGG
League of Abnormal Gentlemen
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Posted - 2007.10.12 12:55:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Bentula
P.S. A carrier is not able to protect miners, im pretty confident i could warp into a belt, wax a barge, and be out again before the carrier can do ****.
Not quite.
If you are protecting hulks with a carrier, you have them targeted for reps. Trying to out dps the rep a carrier puts out, is usually a losing battle...
___
P.S.
Post with your main.
Mind control and tin hats |
arbalesttom
Caldari
Glauxian Brothers
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Posted - 2007.10.12 13:00:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Night Tripper
Archon wins, 7 Expander IIs.
DUDE, your face
==========================
*No cookies for you!*
*Caldari, not proud at it*
========================== |
Bentula
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Posted - 2007.10.12 13:19:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Laboratus
Originally by: Bentula
P.S. A carrier is not able to protect miners, im pretty confident i could warp into a belt, wax a barge, and be out again before the carrier can do ****.
Not quite.
If you are protecting hulks with a carrier, you have them targeted for reps. Trying to out dps the rep a carrier puts out, is usually a losing battle...
Yes, true. But a hulk is a exhumer, not a barge. Somehow the thought of a bunch of hulks mining in lowsec with just a carrier as protection didnt quite enter my mind ...
Barges(t1) imho are unlikely to survive even with carrier support, cycletime and damage bleeding through and stuff. Their hp buffer is simply to small as that you can approach this with just dps done vs dps tanked.
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Boonaki
Caldari
Knights of Chaos
Chaos Incarnate.
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Posted - 2007.10.12 13:53:00 -
[57]
I watched a faction fitted archon tank 5 sieged dreads for about half an hour with triage. Was quite the site. Armor tanks get stupidly high resists.
Fear the Ibis of doom!
113 |
goodby4u
Cutting Edge Incorporated
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2007.10.12 14:00:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Closer Still
right i forgot, every battle in eve lasts under half a minute...
was that a serious comment?
Actually that statement is half right,engagements of 10vs10 usually end within minutes of the start,if it doesnt then you have a fleet battle most likely and a carrier wont help very much in that situation either.
Now a carrier can already hold its own until support arrives,it takes a good amount of time to eat through a carriers tank ya know...
__________________________________________
Yes it is great being amarr.
I am minmatar,fly amarr,use gellente drones and am in caldari space. |
Twin blade
Minmatar
The Triangle
Exa Nation
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Posted - 2007.10.12 14:10:00 -
[59]
The Nidhoggur is the best carrier simple as that.
Tank's don't mean any thing on a carrier you support die's you die as you won't tank any thing once the enemy fleet nuke's your cap and they will.
Been able to repair more a cycle is more helpfull than a damage or tank bonus.
The fact the damage bonus only works if the carrier is in control of the fighter's mean its useless as it don't have time to be locking enemy ships when trying to repair ally's thats if they don't damp you to hell and back.
A good pilot will make the Nidhoggur the best carrier but you get a moron in one then its just a massive rusty tent with tons of HP that is soon to be killed.
!
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General Apocalypse
Amarr
The Merchant Marines
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Posted - 2007.10.12 16:52:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Sokratesz
Why people can still fit DCU's, silly tanks and anything other than ccc rigs on their carriers with a straight face is beyond me.
It's a support vessel and in turn it needs support to shine. This means your sole purpose is to keep your gang alive which requires alot of cap, thus you fit relays and ccc rigs. Your own damage is similar to that of a single gank battleship so not that special, while your own tank will be either 'holding easy' anyway, or be broken by xx dreads in siege, netting you nothing.
Tell us how many times have you flown a carrier ? Usually ship get insta poped in fleet vs fleet so you can make soup our of the remote reps . The best thing you can do is give more cap to the guy that's shot when we're talking capitals as the tank tends to run dry under the neut armada . Remote reps are good only if your buddy gets to many dreads on him and ususaly there's nothing you can do for him . Except screw up your own tank . The only time when remote reps are good are on moms/titans .
Originally by: madaluap
Originally by: General Apocalypse
Stuff
Its a carrier, that means its ment as remote support. Why fit it like that than?
Never flown the ship, but all carriers are fitted in the same way IMO:
2* cap remote armor rep
1* DCU or remote energy transfer
1* DCU or domination/republic large smartbomb
1* darkblood/true sansha large smarbomb
3* Caprecharger II
1* Sensorbooster II
2* capital armor rep
1* Armor Thermic Hardener II
1* Armor Kinetic Hardener II
1* Armor Explosive Hardener II
1* Damage Control II
1* Capacitor Power Relay II or energized adaptive and fit 3* CCC
CCC rigs to make setup stabile + trimark
Fighters: Combination of the minmatar fighters and some other fightertypes. Minmatar fighters are fast(er).
slaveset highly recommended
Try killing chimeras/phoenixes whit minnie fighters you'll have ****loads of fun . Also the ideea of the SB is to kill drones . And if someone is stupid to kill his fighters th/kin SB work better since they do decent on shield and armor . Havin 1 EM + 1 EX just dosen't cut it .
Also for a guy that never flow a carrier it's not to bad .
Originally by: madaluap
but all Archons are fitted in the same way IMO
Fixed that for you 
Originally by: CCP Morpheus
nerf ccp plz
Originally by: CCP Oveur
To the gankmobile!
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