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Sisi Bomb Testing Results and Reccomendations

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Rells Caldari Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2007.10.11 02:01:00 - [1] AGONY spent several hours working on Sisi to test the bombs and their applicability in combat. What we found was the following: No more than 4 can be launched at any one time without them blowing each other up. The 5th causes other bombs to be destroyed. If you come from 2 different sides, you could put 8 bombs on target. Four (or even 8) bombs wont kill an assault frigate possibly because of the size of the radius of the ship. Bombs were doing only 109 damage per bomb to the AF. The only thing that can be killed with 4 bombs are: untanked cruisers untanked recon ship recon ships with MWD on and stationary cruisers with MWD on and stationary With 8 BOmbs the results are as with 4 bombs with the following additions: Lightly or Untanked tanked HACs Tanked Cruisers Battlecruisers, Battleships, and frigates (without a MWD on) and stationary can not be killed by bombs. The forward distace that the bomb flies before detonation is 1.25 km x 15 sec = resulting in a distance of 18.75 km from point of launch. Even a cloaked bomber flies between 300 and 500 m/s; at 15 seconds that is 4.5 to 7.5 km. With a bomb blast range of 15km and only a 3.75 km buffer for navigation, bombers will have a difficult time avoiding the blast point of their own bombs. The results of this test lead me to the following reccomendations: Resistance to a bomb's own damage type should be upped to 99.95% to allow the opponents to launch as many concurrent bombs as they can deploy with their resources. Because the resistance to other damage i 0, it should not affect their ability to be destroyed by smartbombs. Bomb velocity should be raised to 3km / second giving a travel distance of 45 km over the same time and making it easier for the bombers to evade. Light and fast ships should still be able to take them on.. The forward trajectory dumb launch is effective for lauching bombs and introduces a new paradigm of shooting. It would be better if the ship didnt auto-level in space however. Bomb cost should be Four years is long enough to leave the corp interface broken!
Rells Caldari Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2007.10.11 04:21:00 - [2] Originally by: Udyr Vulpayne Originally by: Rells The forward distace that the bomb flies before detonation is 1.25 km x 15 sec = resulting in a distance of 18.75 km from point of launch. Even a cloaked bomber flies between 300 and 500 m/s; at 15 seconds that is 4.5 to 7.5 km. With a bomb blast range of 15km and only a 3.75 km buffer for navigation, bombers will have a difficult time avoiding the blast point of their own bombs. bombers also dont have to fly between 300 and 500m/s when they launch the bomb. slow down before you launch the bomb and you should be able to avoid getting into the blast radius. or alternatively...fit for some agility and turn around right away. That is tough to do when you need to evade their fast ships as well. Four years is long enough to leave the corp interface broken!
Rells Caldari Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2007.10.11 17:44:00 - [3] Originally by: murder one Make them into area denial weapons. Similar to mines or warp disruption bubbles, they would be launched towards a target like a torpedo, including locking/firing at an actual target. They would not simply be 'dropped', even with a forward velocity vector. Max range for the bombs would be 45km, after range/velocity skills. On impact, bombs detonate at the target point and engage an area effect bubble just like a warp disruption probe, only it does damage over time, for a limited time- say, 60 seconds or so. It does one damage pulse to any target in the bubble every 15 seconds. You are talking about something vastly different than bombs, a totally different module that would be, in my opinion, significantly overpowered. The fact that you should need a dozen people to take out a large gate camp with bombers is a good thing. It balances out the impact of the AE damage on the enemy that you need the organization to accomplish it. The only problem now is that you cannot put significant enough bombs on target to accomplish the task because of their tendency to blow each other up. Originally by: ISEE ALL so I guess ther's no chance to destroy t1/t2 frig/cruiser camp gangs with only one bomb at all? Tech 1 frigates will generally die to 4 bombs assuming they don't power out of the blast sphere. However, their chance to power out should not be removed. In using the microwarp they make themselves much more vulnerable. Interceptors can be killed with a single bomb if the microwarp is on and they remain in the blast radius, I have killed 2 solo on TQ using a trick with bombs. However, interceptors will be able to clear the blast radius fast if they are aware of what is going on. Finally, assault frigates currently can not be killed at all with bombs. The bombs barely touch them. You would need 40 bombs to kill your average assault frigate and at 20 mil per pop, 800mil isk is a little expensive to kill an AF. Originally by: Tonto Auri Originally by: ISEE ALL so I guess ther's no chance to destroy t1/t2 frig/cruiser camp gangs with only one bomb at all? No unless You have CovOps cloak on bomber. Currently You just can't approach Your target in one piece. This is incorrect. With the proper piloting skills and the relevant char skill to run an improved cloak, it is quite easy to get close to a camp of a lot of ships. Its dangerous but that is the excitement of it. I believe a covops cloak on a bomber would make it overpowered. There has to be some drawback instead of unleashing instant death. If you want to be really stealthy you can warp to a spot off grid and come in under subwarp. However, I would say that I think bombers should be about 200% faster than they are now, when under cloak. Originally by: Virgil Aquilis Edited by: Virgil Aquilis on 11/10/2007 14:35:06 Have you tested them against Fighters yet? That's one place where I think bombs have always been an interesting idea, and if you don't have to drive directly into the fighterswarm to drop them now, so much the better. We didn't test that but my impression is that bombs would be ineffective against fighters due to the fighter's high HP and ability to instantly recalled to the drone bay of the capital ship when orbiting it. If the fighters are attacking a target, it would do serious damage to the friendly and posibily kill them, to take out the fighters. However, we will have to do more testing on this. Four years is long enough to leave the corp interface broken!
Rells Caldari Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2007.10.11 18:17:00 - [4] Originally by: Udyr Vulpayne Originally by: Rells ...at 20 mil per pop... are they still this expensive to produce? iirc there was talk about making them cheaper as well with rev3. Build reqs have not changed on Sisi at the time of our testing. Four years is long enough to leave the corp interface broken!
Rells Caldari Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2007.10.12 09:01:00 - [5] 20 mil per shot is a bit steep for harassment. Furthermore, if the fleet can easily tank it, it isnt very harassing. So we expend 20 mil to kill some drones (assuming the guy doesnt recall them before it goes off)? That line of reasoning is not forward thinking. As for the destroyer idea, I disagree. The balance of the bombs as a weapon is the need for significant organization and piloting skills. iving a destroyer the chance to instapop cruisers is just asking for an imbalance. Furthermore, this role is exactly what SBs were envisioned as. I would also give them one more launcher hardpoint to improve their weapons diversity and use that useless 5th slot. That or move that slot to a low or medium. If you get 20 bombers in position, the other fleet doesnt see the bombs, is sitting still on a gate, lets 20 stealth bombers approach them and lets themselves get trapped on the side of the gate, they deserve to die. Poeple need to think a little bit deeper than "muahhhahahahah I have more guns than you" and people need to wake up and start thinking tactically. Four years is long enough to leave the corp interface broken!
Rells Caldari Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2007.10.12 16:17:00 - [6] Originally by: Ammath Frankly they should cost about 5-7mil even with the changes. Also you should be able to fit two bomb launchers on a stealth bomber. Also because they keep not wanting to do anything useful with destroyers I second having a 'heavy bomber' variant destroyer which could mount double the bomb launchers of a frig based one. So if frigs go to two, give them 4 (and cloak speed etc). Also anyone check can you float bombs on SISI into a pos shield? That would make them REALLY nice :) A destroyer is an EXTREMELY useful piece of hardware. The fact that you havent figured out how to use it is not CCPs problem. Four years is long enough to leave the corp interface broken!
Rells Caldari Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2007.10.15 20:00:00 - [7] fitting out a bomber in the manner described would be humorus, if a bit psychotic, even if it fit. Bombers are as thin as paper and survive by stealth, not going fast or tanking. Four years is long enough to leave the corp interface broken!
Rells Caldari Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2007.10.18 02:04:00 - [8] Hmm as of armageddon day there was no info on changes. Four years is long enough to leave the corp interface broken!
Rells Caldari Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2007.10.20 00:48:00 - [9] FYI: Two cloaked ships can not uncloak each other. Four years is long enough to leave the corp interface broken!
Rells Caldari Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2007.10.22 16:26:00 - [10] ACK ! The Above post was brought to you by me. Shi'rna is my Research alt. Four years is long enough to leave the corp interface broken!
Rells Caldari Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2007.11.19 06:32:00 - [11] It would be nice to get some dev feedback on this one. Four years is long enough to leave the corp interface broken!
Rells Caldari Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2007.11.21 16:40:00 - [12] Originally by: Ulstan Bombs are far too expensive. The idea of a 20 million bomb being used as 'harassment' is just silly. Quote: Not so much wtfpwn the entire fleet, but soften them up a bit before your big guns start firing? With current implementations, I think you would do much better by sticking your SB pilots in battleships and have them help take down the primary. I believe bombs are supposed to make it dangerous to stay too blobbed: as such, they need to be less hideously expensive and slightly more damaging against cruisers and up. I'm fine with them not being used as 'insta pop' weapons on frigates. Also, it should not be so hard for a bomber to escape getting hit with his own bomb blast :p Your comment about putting the SB pilots in battleships shows one-dimensional, non-creative thinking. Think out of the box a bit. Agony uses SBs a lot and very effectively. The problem with the bombs is not so much their firepower but the fact that they blow each other up to well. If that blob doesn't want to get hit by bombs there are a thousand ways to avoid it if they are paying attention. I am tired of people advocating turning the game into a one dimensional battle of pure firepower. Four years is long enough to leave the corp interface broken!
Rells Caldari Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2007.12.11 17:59:00 - [13] Well, so much for testing feedback I guess. Bombs still have MINIMAL use. Four years is long enough to leave the corp interface broken!

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