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MasterAsher
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Posted - 2007.10.11 03:57:00 -
[1]
The only thing i enjoy about this game right now is making money with mining, lvl1 missions completely bore me to death. I've only been playing 2 weeks and all that keeps happening to me is 1year+ players come steal my ore from jet cans, i cant do anything to stop them, i'm a complete industrial/mining toon, if i shoot back they just completely destroy me. Why are players allowed to do this in high sec space? This system is completely unfair to new players. I know your gonna say find someone to haul for you, but not everyone in my corp can be on to haul for me when i mine, or use secure cans which can only be place 5k m from each other and only in .7 space or below...
Why are these players allowed to harass me while even if i wanted to fight back it would be futile?
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GC13
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2007.10.11 04:09:00 -
[2]
Because jet can mining, while marvelously convenient, is a workaround that has become so common people seem to forget it was never intended. You're weighing your risk vs reward equation when you decide to jet can, and deciding the extra mining speed outweighs the risk of theft. You can somewhat mitigate the problem with secure containers, if you go to 0.7 or lower space, though they have their own problems...
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Science and Industry guide plus A Newbie's Guide to Caldari Ships |
Matalino
Gallente Ki Tech Industries
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Posted - 2007.10.11 04:12:00 -
[3]
I understand your irritation, but it is simply part of the game.
This game is always PvP. Every part of it is PvP, not just combat. Even if people are not taking your ore, you will be competing with other players to get the best price. All you can do is adapt.
If you do have the means to arrange for instant hauling (either corp mate or second account) then I would suggest that you find a quite out of the way system, and limit the amount that you leave in your can to just one hauler load. That way you minimize the probablity of theft and the loss should it still happen.
************************** Datacore Harvesting IPO |
MasterAsher
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Posted - 2007.10.11 04:16:00 -
[4]
i understand that risk, but its the same guy, he doest want to steal the ore he just wants to kill me, he never hauls it away, how is that fair. Hes an older player how can i fight him fairly in pvp?
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Matalino
Gallente Ki Tech Industries
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Posted - 2007.10.11 04:19:00 -
[5]
Originally by: MasterAsher i understand that risk, but its the same guy, he doest want to steal the ore he just wants to kill me, he never hauls it away, how is that fair. Hes an older player how can i fight him fairly in pvp?
ANYTHING is fair in love and war, this is war so it is fair. Just leave. There are over 5,000 systems to choose from. Odds are low that he will follow you if you just quitely slip to another region.
************************** Datacore Harvesting IPO |
Filthy Pierre
Gallente Laughing Fox Enterprises
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Posted - 2007.10.11 04:23:00 -
[6]
Rule One - Don't let it get to you.
Rule Two - EVE is a harsh environment where everything not forbidden is mandatory. Ore stealing and can flipping aren't forbidden - therefore people do it. Often.
Rule Three - If things aren't going the way you want them to, either figure out a way to make them go the way you want *or* change your expectations.
Rule Four - There is NO Rule Four.
Sit down and think about what you're doing. You're going to have to figure out a few things here. One thing you're probably doing wrong is that you're mining in a heavily populated high security (0.8-1.0) system with a lot of traffic. So move. Move to somewhere nearer 0.5 and off the main path. That'll fix 90% of your problem right there.
Fixes for problems after that come under the heading of figuring out what you want to do, gaining more skill points specifically to meet that aim and also gaining the ability to beat the living crap out of anyone that does that to you again.
It all takes time.
FP
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GC13
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2007.10.11 04:24:00 -
[7]
Originally by: MasterAsher i understand that risk, but its the same guy, he doest want to steal the ore he just wants to kill me, he never hauls it away, how is that fair. Hes an older player how can i fight him fairly in pvp?
If you're in a fair fight you've done something wrong.
That said, he's probably in an NPC corp so you can't war dec his corporation, otherwise I'd say declare war on him (provided he's in a dinky player corp) and get eight or nine of your friends to whale on him. Even a veteran would get hosed by that.
--
Science and Industry guide plus A Newbie's Guide to Caldari Ships |
Leora Nomen
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Posted - 2007.10.11 04:30:00 -
[8]
You cannot fight him but you can take measures to defend yourself. Use secure containers and mine into them instead of using a jet can. Join a corp and mine with them. When he comes to steal ore he will become flagged to entire corp and even if you're all noobs together you can kill him. Open a second account and haul the ore right as you mine it. Given that you have several options here to avoid him praying on you, it is fair.
guide to game time codes |
Thorke
Gallente Old Timers Guild Inc.
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Posted - 2007.10.11 04:31:00 -
[9]
Any way, the lore of the Amarr makes praying before killing you manditory.
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Matalino
Gallente Ki Tech Industries
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Posted - 2007.10.11 04:31:00 -
[10]
Originally by: GC13 That said, he's probably in an NPC corp so you can't war dec his corporation, otherwise I'd say declare war on him (provided he's in a dinky player corp) and get eight or nine of your friends to whale on him. Even a veteran would get hosed by that.
Get one of your combat friends to come along and drop a can for you to dump your ore in. When the guy takes the ore thinking that it is yours, your friend can learn him a thing or two about how to play eve.
If you can't beat them get your friends to beat them.
************************** Datacore Harvesting IPO |
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Mediastinum
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Posted - 2007.10.11 04:43:00 -
[11]
I've got just the solution for you. Join Eve University. The corporation is designed to help out new players less than 8 weeks old, but exceptions are made. If you only like to mine, and you hate ore thieve's then you should definently check them out. I often see in Corp or Alliance chat that some ore thief just flipped one of our miners cans and immediately several people are enroute to the system. Also, mining ops are being formed all the time these days and often with the cover of combat pilots flying in the same system just waiting for the opportunity to gank some fool ore thief.
Give it a try. You will not regret it. And Eve WILL become fun again when you can get immediate response to kill the ore thief.
*This is just my reccomnedation from personal experience. --------------------------------------------------
Originally by: "Lucky Shadow" Does writing "Sorry" on our ammo count ?
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Alekseyev Karrde
The Royal Guard Giant Space Amoeba
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Posted - 2007.10.11 06:11:00 -
[12]
I second Media on that one. EVE Unniversity isnt the only organization that will work for this, but joining someplace which will both teach/show you how to mine securly, provide you with the efficiency and comradere of mining ops, and the security of PVP backup will enhance your gameplay tremendously. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -Alekseyev Ambassador, Fleet Commander, Council Member =The Royal Guard= "=TRG=Public" Channel www.rgrocks.com
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Shanur
Minmatar Republic Military School
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Posted - 2007.10.11 07:15:00 -
[13]
Alternatively, do a few of those "boring" missions for a command agent until you get Unauthorized military pressence. That's an encounter mission that comes with a large field of plagio and pyro. Then just mine the roids in that mission pocket. Because it's a mission area, the can flipper will not be able to chase you down just by checking out belts, and because most missions take place in deadspace pockets (making probing much harder) and most high sec pirates consider probes not a worthwhile investment for the prey they are after, you should be able to mine in peace there. |
PMolkenthin
Contraband Inc. Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2007.10.11 09:08:00 -
[14]
Easy solution. Work as a team. Find someone who wants to mine with you, and take it in turns to mine/haul.
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Kessiaan
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Posted - 2007.10.11 09:10:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Kessiaan on 11/10/2007 09:11:33 Seriously, don't belt mine. And if you do belt mine don't let more than 1 or 2 haulers worth of ore accumulate in your jetcan.
Unauthorized Military Presence is a great 'mining mission', though with current ore prices I'd suggest mining the plag and veld and leaving the pyro, it's worth next to nothing right now. There's also several lv. 1 missions which spawn large veld fields.
I've never had a can flipped while mining in a mission space - highsec pirates seem to only be interested in easy targets. So don't be one.
----- My in Eve Profile |
Psyon Ra
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Posted - 2007.10.11 12:34:00 -
[16]
i just started eve this week. your post is one of the reasons i love this game.
yes, he sounds like a jerk but no one is restricting him from doing that except "YOU" be smart!, make friends, get help etc.. i have no experience in this game to speak of, still learning the ropes but i know -->"that it is not safe anywhere" and once one gets that in their brain,the faster one becomes a competent pilot..this is what makes this game so great, anything is possible!..
move somewhere else
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Jonathan Calvert
Minmatar Republic University
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Posted - 2007.10.11 12:48:00 -
[17]
Think of it in RP terms. Frigates are not designed for large volume mining, or protecting your jet cans. Jet cans are trash. Why would you jettison perfectly good ore? What you need is to work on your skills till you can securely mine larger volume ore.
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Dretzle Omega
Caldari Psychedelic Party Stellar Economy Experts
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Posted - 2007.10.11 13:16:00 -
[18]
This game was designed with a little more realism in mind than most MMOs. Now, of course, "realism" is relatively when you start talking about stargates, warp speed, and how the heck do you get ore into your ships cargo hold with a laser?
That being said, if the mechanics of the game such as what I mentioned were real, various systems evolve from the game. It's very interesting, for example, to see how trade hubs develop. You could probably look at a 2D map of the systems and pick out which systems will be trade hubs without ever playing the game. There's a "fleet" building up in a low sec system near where I mine designed as an anti pirate group to keep that system relatively safe for travel and trade.
So another one of the things that develop is ways to work around the law. You have to think of Eve as the Wild West (if you are from America). Yeah, there's law, but the sheriff can't always do something about it. Another way to think of it would be you alone, in that asteroid belt, is like you miles from the city, alone, chopping wood. There's law, the police will try to punish them if someone does something to you, but you're not exactly safe out there.
It's one of the things about the game that I like so much. For me, my jet can just got flipped for the first time today. I wouldn't dare fight back; I'm only a month old and I don't have as much confidence in my PvP skills yet (not to mention I don't think he was working alone). But here's what I did. I warped back to station and grabbed my industrial. It has a cargo hold of 4500 m3 (I have another with over 16k m3, but I didn't want to risk it. I warped to my jet can, which was now his and poorly labeled "Take me please". If I took from it, they would be allowed to shoot me. So I got near it, opened the can and my cargo hold, then hit the button to warp and dock at my station. I waited 'till I was almost at warp speed, then took my ore back, flagging me for them to be able to shoot me. However, since I was already speeding to warp he didn't have enough time to decloak and lock on to me before I was safely in station. I had a blast, even though I lost half the ore I was mining. :) ------------------- 4 8 15 16 23 42 108 |
Billy Sastard
Amarr Life. Universe. Everything. Hydra Alliance
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Posted - 2007.10.11 14:27:00 -
[19]
Originally by: MasterAsher i understand that risk, but its the same guy, he doest want to steal the ore he just wants to kill me, he never hauls it away, how is that fair. Hes an older player how can i fight him fairly in pvp?
OK first off, after he started harassing you, you should have left and found a different system, there are thousands of highsec systems where you can mine.
Second, by definition to 'jettison' is to throw something away, thus the stuff in your jetcan is technically trash that you did not want, which means anyone can come take it. You should be happy that you are allowed to shoot at someone who steals your trash at all, it did not always work this way.
Third, you can totally invalidate the theft by just not jetcan mining! You dont HAVE to mine into a can, you can always just dock and unload when you are full. Yes this is not as efficient, but TBH, this is a multiplayer game, and to get the most out of it often you will want to have a buddy helping you get things done. Ok so there are not people around who can haul for you, well right now CCP has this nifty promo called 'the power of 2' where you can get a 2nd account at a discounted price, maybe look into this. You may scoff at the idea of using 2 accounts, but having a 2nd accout for haulig is something that almost all 'serious' miners do.
I guess that in short, instead of whining on the forums about how mean other players are, you should look at your availabe options and adapt to the situation. -=^=-
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Doctor Widget
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Posted - 2007.10.11 15:15:00 -
[20]
How does one securely move the ore from the mining ship's hold into the hauler (second account?)
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Sapphira Zachan
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.10.11 15:35:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Doctor Widget How does one securely move the ore from the mining ship's hold into the hauler (second account?)
Using a jetcan
Step 1: Mine roid. Step 2: When hold is full, jettison a can. Step 3: Pick the ore up from this with your hauler asap. Step 4: When your hauler's hold is full, warp it back to station, drop off ore, return hauler to belt. Step 5: See step 1.
That's the basic principle of it.
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Meldrynn skank
Minmatar
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Posted - 2007.10.11 15:38:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Meldrynn skank on 11/10/2007 15:39:35
Originally by: MasterAsher i understand that risk, but its the same guy, he doest want to steal the ore he just wants to kill me, he never hauls it away, how is that fair. Hes an older player how can i fight him fairly in pvp?
The same guy?Ok.Do you have him in your address book so you know if he is online?When he enters the system your are mining in(Try not to make it easy for him to find you by mining in the same system everyday)STOP MINING and haul your ore back to station asap.
He doesnt want you ore he just wants to kill you?He cant kill you unless you are foolish enough to attack after he steals from your can.And exactly how much is he stealing btw?1 unit?
How is it fair?It's fair because thats how the game works.It sounds like you are doing everything wrong.Hopefuly the replys here will help you not to fall into the trap again.
Older players know the rules and they like to find new players who dont.
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Barashi Nugan
Gallente The Really Awesome Players
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Posted - 2007.10.11 16:42:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Meldrynn skank
He doesnt want you ore he just wants to kill you?He cant kill you unless you are foolish enough to attack after he steals from your can.And exactly how much is he stealing btw?1 unit?
I would assume he's flipping the whole can, and not just stealing a few units of ore.
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DRONEB
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Posted - 2007.10.11 17:15:00 -
[24]
This used to happen to me too, Till I trained up a stealth bomber and left it cloaked at about 140KM afk, and mine with my primary account, now when one of these losers appears its not to long before they eat 3-6 cruise missiles and die to a 6 month old player, I enjoy rubbing it in there 1+ year faces like poo. After all the ones that stole from me. Risk vs reward I have plan very little risk when I mine other than someone stupid dieing.
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ZerKar
Caldari Zen'Tar
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Posted - 2007.10.11 17:49:00 -
[25]
You cannot stop him if you Jet-Can mine and in time he may become bored of you and just leave you be. Do not converse with him. Do not take any action. Just stop mining when he does this and sit there until he leaves. Most people who play for PvP have very little patience and short attention spans. They are thrill seakers and if you are boring they will move to something more exciting. Moving to a different system will help or moving to one with a LOT of belts so it is hard for him to find you is even better.
I had one of these guys try this with me while my Hauler was dropping off some ore lol. He took from my can and waited. I did nothing. He popped out another can and waited. I did nothing, but was hoping he would shoot me so I could watch Concord kill him. He SHOT the can he made and finally I said on Local "You going to shoot me?" and he left. lol. Simply put I made it very clear 1) I am not going to fight you. 2) I am not going to run away. 3) I am not going to give you ANY satisfaction whatsoever.
However, do NOT expect this aspect of the game to change it just gets worse with Suicide Gankers later on in your career and CCP has NO motivation to do anything about it. Consider this, any time some player sets back your progress it means you have to work to recover your losses. That means more time, and time means more money for CCP. So simply put, if this sort of thing really bothers you to no end it may be time to just quit this game and move on but if you can hack avoiding these guys and taking a hit now and then, by all means do so.
------------------------------------------------ everything is never Nothing is Never Not ------------------------------------------------ |
Rhiraven
Gallente Epic Empire Exa Nation
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Posted - 2007.10.11 19:46:00 -
[26]
Quote: CCP has NO motivation to do anything about it. Consider this, any time some player sets back your progress it means you have to work to recover your losses. That means more time, and time means more money for CCP.
In a normal MMO with a standard business model, I might agree with this statement. However, in Eve, due to the way game time cards are bought and sold for isk, there is not a strictly linear relationship between the time you spend in-game and the amount of revenue they make. Nor do they gain anything substantial by ******ing your progress. You will have a hard time proving mathematically that a frustrated player is more likely to play longer, the same way you would have a hard time proving an over-rewarded player is more likely to play longer.
I assume that if you drew up a histogram and estimated a range, you could form a hazy estimate of how much carrot and how much stick you should use to optimize your player's time.
This would probably be a waste of your time and it's wasting my time just trolling you about it.
I have been canflipped in highsec once. I got mad and attacked the flipper with tech 1 drones with my untanked Exequror. That ended in an exploding ball of Exequror. It was a good experience, and I am better at Eve because of it. -
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Rhiraven
Gallente Epic Empire Exa Nation
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Posted - 2007.10.11 19:47:00 -
[27]
Flame-******ant clothing.
The word filter is ********, or mentally handicapped (or both). -
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Matalino
Gallente Ki Tech Industries
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Posted - 2007.10.11 19:57:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Rhiraven In a normal MMO with a standard business model, I might agree with this statement. However, in Eve, due to the way game time cards are bought and sold for isk, there is not a strictly linear relationship between the time you spend in-game and the amount of revenue they make. Nor do they gain anything substantial by ******ing your progress. You will have a hard time proving mathematically that a frustrated player is more likely to play longer, the same way you would have a hard time proving an over-rewarded player is more likely to play longer.
The trade of game codes does not change the time needed to earn back losses, it only changes who spends that time. So, the original assement is still accurate, CCP makes more money when people play more to recover from losses.
That, however, is not the reason that CCP allows players to suffer losses. They allow losses because it is a fundamental part of the game. Everytime a ship is destroyed, minerals are effectively removed from the game. If those minerals were not removed from the game, there would be no need to mine more minerals.
The entire game is built around ISK/item sinks and sources.
Without real losses there would be no way to hold space in 0.0, and there would be no point to resource collection within empire space.
PvP is what drives this game. CCP could change that, but then we would have a fundamentally different game.
************************** Datacore Harvesting IPO |
Fade Dren
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Posted - 2007.10.12 00:45:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Thorke Any way, the lore of the Amarr makes praying before killing you manditory.
Thank you !
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Arturo Mantatti
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Posted - 2007.10.12 01:57:00 -
[30]
So, I have only been playing for a few days and don't know too much, but I am really interested in this whole "stealing" thing. I have a few questions.
1) How do I steal ore from somebody?
2) Will Concord come kill me if I do?
3) If the player I stole ore from comes to attack me then can I attack back without repercussions from Concord?
Thanks.
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