EVE Search - No damage has me stumped

All Channels

EVE New Citizens Q&A

No damage has me stumped

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: [1] :: one page
Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Wolfways Minmatar Brutor tribe	Posted - 2007.10.11 19:03:00 - [1] I used to play EVE a while ago and recently came back after trying a trial. During the trial i played a Caldari pilot and everything went fine. On my old account i have flown all Minmatar ships up to and including a Cyclone. My skills are coming along well, and i generally think i know what i'm doing....most of the time. However, in the past few days since i returned i've managed to lose 3 ships (Cyclone in lvl2 mission, Thrasher in lvl2 mission, Rifter in lvl1 mission) and 20mil ISK. These losses come from the same problem. My guns aren't doing any damage. I've been using small and medium guns (all projectile) with EMP and nuclear ammo, at every range from out of range to 1000m. My guns will do no damage 99% of the time, and on the odd occasion that they do hit they'll do around 10 damage I have no idea what i'm doing wrong. Anyone have any ideas? Delusions of invincibility combined with a strong homicidal urge... I have a kick-your-ass fetish
Leora Nomen	Posted - 2007.10.11 19:09:00 - [2] Is what you're firing at least within the (optimal + 1 falloff) range of your guns? Even if your guns do no damage, you can always warp out. There is no need to lose a ship. Level 2 missions can be done in a frigate. I suggest you try out frigs instead of expensive ships to figure out what you're going wrong. Post your setups here as well. guide to game time codes
Wolfways Minmatar Brutor tribe	Posted - 2007.10.11 19:15:00 - [3] Sorry, but what do you mean by "(optimal + 1 falloff)"? Delusions of invincibility combined with a strong homicidal urge... I have a kick-your-ass fetish
Maltitol Gallente Tides of Silence Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.11 19:17:00 - [4] Originally by: Wolfways Sorry, but what do you mean by "(optimal + 1 falloff)"? right click gun, show info, go under attributes tab, read optimal, falloff lines
Wolfways Minmatar Brutor tribe	Posted - 2007.10.11 19:22:00 - [5] I know what optimal and falloff ranges are, but don't get the +1 bit. Hmm, maybe i don't. Am i correct in saying that optimal is the best range to fire at, and falloff is where the weapon does 50% less damage? Delusions of invincibility combined with a strong homicidal urge... I have a kick-your-ass fetish
Maltitol Gallente Tides of Silence Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.11 19:24:00 - [6] Edited by: Maltitol on 11/10/2007 19:25:50 Originally by: Wolfways Hmm, maybe i don't. Am i correct in saying that optimal is the best range to fire at, and falloff is where the weapon does 50% less damage? Optimum range is the distance from the current target at which the weapon operates at maximum efficiency, both in damage and accuracy. At optimum range, you have the best chance to score an "excellent" hit (i.e. maximum damage) as well as inflict consistent damage. If the target is closer than the optimum range, the weapon will have problems tracking the target properly resulting in decrease accuracy. If the target is farther than the optimum range, the chance to score an excellent hit is reduced . as well as hitting the target in general. If the target is farther than optimum range PLUS the accuracy falloff, then you weapon has less chance to hit. In effect, optimum range plus accuracy falloff = 50% chance to hit and at twice past accuracy falloff = 100% chance not to hit. The max range on accuracy fall off : max range is optimal + 1 * falloff, while at optimal + falloff, the hit chance is about 50% hope this helps, and hope it makes sense Edit: its rather complicated, so to sum it up, keep the thing/person you are shooting at closest to optimal. use an MWD if needed.
Wolfways Minmatar Brutor tribe	Posted - 2007.10.11 19:33:00 - [7] Thanks very much, that explains it very well With autocannons + EMP the optimal was around 1500m as far as i remember. Not easy keeping something that close when they want to stay at around 6k away Seems strange that any weapon has its optimal at that short a range though... Delusions of invincibility combined with a strong homicidal urge... I have a kick-your-ass fetish
Maltitol Gallente Tides of Silence Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.11 19:36:00 - [8] im gallente, so i use blasters.. the normal range for those are 1500- 2000m.. its more for pvp as npc killing is hard to keep them in range, so i use railguns instead which has 30k-ish ranges... and the falloffs are huge, so between 10k - 40k i still hit.. somewhat if your using arties, im not 100% sure as i dont know that race, but there should be an alternate gun platform you can use on your ships for long range
Leora Nomen	Posted - 2007.10.11 19:48:00 - [9] Edited by: Leora Nomen on 11/10/2007 19:51:31 Within optimal to optimal + 1 falloff is just where you'd hit the most. +2 falloff and you'll be missing a lot of time. +3 falloff and you won't hit. This is an interesting rifter setup. I suggest you read some more rifter for level 2 missions setups - don't take a cruiser until you know what you're doing wrong. http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=344450 guide to game time codes
Wolfways Minmatar Brutor tribe	Posted - 2007.10.11 20:20:00 - [10] Well i just tried the mission again (same one i've been doing all day) in a Cyclone with 3x 220mm Vulcan autocannon 1 (plus missiles and stuff). The ranges (nuclear M) are: Optimal-2855m, falloff-8000m. I kept the target (Guristii raider (sp?) at about 3000m and all my guns missed most of the time with the occasional shot hitting for around 10 damage Basically, with only two of them left i couldn't hurt them and they couldn't hurt me because our shields out-regened the damage. I remember doing all lvl1 and most lvl2 missions in a Rifter before moving on to a Thrasher. Maybe i'll try a Rifter in a few lvl1 missions to see if i get the same results. Delusions of invincibility combined with a strong homicidal urge... I have a kick-your-ass fetish
Wolfways Minmatar Brutor tribe	Posted - 2007.10.11 20:21:00 - [11] Originally by: Maltitol Edited by: Maltitol on 11/10/2007 19:36:56 im gallente, so i use blasters.. the normal range for those are 1500- 2000m.. its more for pvp as npc killing is hard to keep them in range, so i use railguns instead which has 30k-ish ranges... and the falloffs are huge, so between 10k - 40k i still hit.. somewhat if your using autocannons, im not 100% sure as i dont know that race, but there should be an alternate gun platform you can use on your ships for long range.. i think its artillery I've tried arties aswell but get the same results. Delusions of invincibility combined with a strong homicidal urge... I have a kick-your-ass fetish
Maltitol Gallente Tides of Silence Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.11 20:23:00 - [12] Edited by: Maltitol on 11/10/2007 20:24:57 lol with arties, you may be TOO close :P edit: can you fit drones?
Easy Target Minmatar Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.10.11 21:09:00 - [13] Cruiser guns are designed to hit cruiser sized targets, by shooting them at frigates you are reducing your chance of a hit before you factor in ranges and all the other stuff For level 1 and 2 missions you are mainly against Frigate sized ships, so dont fit medium guns, fit small Using a cyclone for level 2 missions is overkill, but never mind. :) You have 5 turret hardpoints, so fit: 5 x 250mm Light Artillery Cannon I 3 x Assault Missile Launchers Both fire small ammo, which is best for against frigates In your mid slots, fit: 1 x 10mn afterburner 1 x stasis webifier (slows down the target makes it easier to hit them) 1 x medium shield booster 2 x hardeners to suit NPC you are against In your low slots 2 x gyrostabilizers 2 x power dianostics You should have no problems with level 2 missions in a battlecruiser, if u are struggling then your support skills arent up to the task, so get training. a well trained frigate pilot will beat a poorly trained battlecruiser pilot. Bigger isnt better in eve. It just makes u a bigger target. Damage Types: Angel - All - mostly EXP/KIN Amarr Navy - EM/Thermal Gurista, Mordus, Gallente - Kinetic/Thermal Blood - EM/Thermal Sansha - EM/Thermal Serpentis - Kinetic/Thermal Mercenary - EM/Thermal/ (Kinetik (missiles) Caldary navy - Kinetic/Thermal Khanid - EM/Thermal Zazzmatazz - 2therm/2kin/1EM/1exp Maru - EM/Thermal Mordus - Kinetic/thermal Rogue Pirate - EM/Explosive/Kinetic Odamian - Kin/therm ----------------------------------------------- No i'm not good... but i have never claimed to be --------------------
Wolfways Minmatar Brutor tribe	Posted - 2007.10.11 21:41:00 - [14] Edited by: Wolfways on 11/10/2007 21:44:38 I just tried a lvl1 mission in a Rifter with a similar setup to the one Leora indicated. All weapons did normal damage and it was a breeze. I can only assume there's something wrong with my medium guns related skills. Ah well, I'll stick to the Rifter for now anyway...not that i have a choice as i used the last of my ISK's to equip it Thanks for the help all Delusions of invincibility combined with a strong homicidal urge... I have a kick-your-ass fetish
Corwain Gallente Down In Flames	Posted - 2007.10.11 21:46:00 - [15] Fit a webber -- A Solo Arbitrator vid, Distortion by Corwain
Tai Otoshi Caldari Crimson Star Empire	Posted - 2007.10.11 21:51:00 - [16] Here's a quick way to tell if you can track and hit your target, if you are already in optimal range, but still missing. Open your overview settings (right click on the white triangle in the overview). Click the 'columns' tab, and check 'angular velocity. Now right click and 'show info' on one of your guns. Look under attributes, and find the tracking speed. Let's say it's 0.045 radians/second. Look back at your overview, and the angular velocity of the target you're trying to hit. If that number is greater than 0.045, you can't hit it. Web it, use the 'keep at distance' command to fly straight away or toward it, or double click in space to fly manually and minimize that angular velocity.
ZerKar Caldari Zen'Tar	Posted - 2007.10.12 06:11:00 - [17] Originally by: Wolfways Well i just tried the mission again (same one i've been doing all day) in a Cyclone with 3x 220mm Vulcan autocannon 1 (plus missiles and stuff). The ranges (nuclear M) are: Optimal-2855m, falloff-8000m. I kept the target (Guristii raider (sp?) at about 3000m and all my guns missed most of the time with the occasional shot hitting for around 10 damage Basically, with only two of them left i couldn't hurt them and they couldn't hurt me because our shields out-regened the damage. I remember doing all lvl1 and most lvl2 missions in a Rifter before moving on to a Thrasher. Maybe i'll try a Rifter in a few lvl1 missions to see if i get the same results. Medium and Larger turrets SUCK at tracking and killing Frigats. You will either need to web them or target paint them. I suggest using Medium Artillery for LvL II's. My Hurricane blows stuff away no prob with those. Just make sure to right click the gun and showinfo in space after you have it loaded the way you want to find its optimal with your ammo of choice. Target Painters really help though, I suggest them, and Drones for little stuff. ------------------------------------------------ everything is never Nothing is Never Not ------------------------------------------------
Gartel Reiman Project F3	Posted - 2007.10.12 07:43:00 - [18] Originally by: Tai Otoshi Here's a quick way to tell if you can track and hit your target, if you are already in optimal range, but still missing. Open your overview settings (right click on the white triangle in the overview). Click the 'columns' tab, and check 'angular velocity. Now right click and 'show info' on one of your guns. Look under attributes, and find the tracking speed. Let's say it's 0.045 radians/second. Look back at your overview, and the angular velocity of the target you're trying to hit. If that number is greater than 0.045, you can't hit it. Web it, use the 'keep at distance' command to fly straight away or toward it, or double click in space to fly manually and minimize that angular velocity. It's not just a straight comparison between the guns' tracking and the angular velocity, either. Signature resolution of the guns versus the target's signature radius comes into play as a multiplier - the tracking quoted is a guide for the intended size of target. So in the situation described above, let's say the guns have a sig res of 120m, and the target (a frigate) has a sig radius of 40m. Then because he is a third of the size that the guns can 'see' and track clearly, then their effective tracking is reduced by a third. Which means that to get the quoted tracking, the angular velocity of the target would have to be less than 0.015. (Also, note that the figure quoted is the point at which 50% of your shots will hit (IIRC - play with the tracking guide yourself, it's very educational). I was surprised at this initially, since I thought that if your (adjusted) tracking was equal to or better than the target's angular velocity you'd hit them 100% of the time. But this isn't the case, ideally you'll want to have tracking of at least double their angular velocity for the vast majority of shots to hit. Again, look at the tracking guide's final page and play with the graph to see how this varies for different values of tracking) This is a major contributor to why larger guns have trouble hitting smaller targets - not only do they have lower 'natural' tracking speeds, but they also suffer penalties on top of that when trying to follow targets that barely register on their sensors.
Cygnus Zhada Amarr UK Corp	Posted - 2007.10.12 11:57:00 - [19] Having not read the other's replies much here's some points to consider; - the bigger the guns you use, the more important the support skills become (tracking for instance) - big guns don't work well on small targets - big guns don't work well on fast moving targets (transversal speed) bigger guns track slower, that means that targets that orbit you will be hit for far less, or not hit at all. There's a few solutions to that problem; - don't use big guns (you can do GREAT with frigate guns on cuisers) - use a webifier to slow down the target so your big guns can track - fly AWAY from the targets so you force them to follow you in a direct line, essentially lowering their transversal speed to 0 - use missiles Welcome to EVE Online: Press 1 for Caldari, PVE Online Press 2 for Minmatar, PVP Online Press 3 for Gallente, PWN Online Press 4 for Amarr, Lulz Online
Wolfways Minmatar Brutor tribe	Posted - 2007.10.12 13:22:00 - [20] Thanks for all the replies I guess the problem was that i came from the bigger is better school of other MMO's. Instead of specialising in certain skills i spread my SP's all over, kind of a jack-of-all-trades character, so i'm not really good at anything atm except learning (all skills at 5). I also tried to rush ahead getting the next biggest ship i could, which is obviously my biggest problem. I think i'll stick with smaller ships for a while until i get decent combat/ship fitting skills Delusions of invincibility combined with a strong homicidal urge... I have a kick-your-ass fetish
Esmenet	Posted - 2007.10.12 13:32:00 - [21] Turret tracking guide: http://www.eve-online.com/guide/en/g25.asp
Kessiaan	Posted - 2007.10.12 14:16:00 - [22] Edited by: Kessiaan on 12/10/2007 14:20:16 As an industrialist who has relatively poor combat skills I've had a lot more success in lv. 2's using autocannons + web against frigates. Artillery does great damage but mission rats (and rats in general) tend to like to close to a distance where it's nearly impossible to hit anything smaller than you (i.e. a cruiser) with it, even when webbed because they track so slowly (again, without good support skills). With autocannons and an afterburner to get and stay in range they don't do as much volley damage but they can fight off a close-in rat swarm much better than artillery (again, only for me.. I'm sure with better combat skills artillery would work better for me, I'm just tossing out a different point of view) ----- My in Eve Profile
Shanur Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2007.10.12 14:53:00 - [23] Originally by: Kessiaan Edited by: Kessiaan on 12/10/2007 14:20:16 As an industrialist who has relatively poor combat skills I've had a lot more success in lv. 2's using autocannons + web against frigates. Artillery does great damage but mission rats (and rats in general) tend to like to close to a distance where it's nearly impossible to hit anything smaller than you (i.e. a cruiser) with it, even when webbed because they track so slowly (again, without good support skills). With autocannons and an afterburner to get and stay in range they don't do as much volley damage but they can fight off a close-in rat swarm much better than artillery (again, only for me.. I'm sure with better combat skills artillery would work better for me, I'm just tossing out a different point of view) This (and the fact that the Osprey is MUCH better than the Scythe) is why i cross trained Caldari. Caracal + assault launchers + lv 2 = win (maybe add 1 or 2 heavy launchers for a bit of punch against the few cruiser sized targets). And all a Drake needs to do is make sure everything agros on it instead of on its drones (lv 2 drones are expensive to replace) and then let its drones rip up the targets, falling back to its battery of heavy launchers when more damage is needed.

Pages: [1] :: one page
First page \| Previous page \| Next page \| Last page

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online, the EVE logo, EVE and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to EVE-Search.com to use EVE Online and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, EVE-Search.com. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.