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Professor Bunsen
Optech Mineral Ventures
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Posted - 2007.10.14 11:20:00 -
[1]
Reserved
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Professor Bunsen
Optech Mineral Ventures
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Posted - 2007.10.14 11:37:00 -
[2]
OMV Results - Fortnight ended 14/10/07
- Starting capitalisation 10 bil as 10,000 1 mil shares
- Bunsen holding 5,005 shares, public 4.995, all shares issued
- Still finalising programming for Eve-Index, it is still "soon" status
- "Passive" trading generated profits of 210 mil i.e. 2%
- NAV at start of this week is 10.21 bil
- OMV will buyback shares at 950k
Bunsen
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Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2007.10.14 17:35:00 -
[3]
 Originally by: Professor Bunsen
OMV will buyback shares at 950k
Firstly, I thought this had been put on hold? (This was the ipo that I had asked for some shares in yes?) I'm mildly horrified if I renegged on my reservation.
Secondly, why is buyback less than initial purchase price?
It's A GIRL!!!!! |
Ricdic
Caldari
Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd
Zzz
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Posted - 2007.10.14 18:11:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Shar Tegral
Secondly, why is buyback less than initial purchase price?
It's a great way to profit off your own corporation and I believe that 90% of all corps that offer buyback, have it at 95% or less.
I think Naph started the trend with EMFi, doing a ton of EGSE trading to keep his share price inline with what he wanted it to be, whilst profiting of course.
Some even speculated that during his disapearance he profited immensely off the reduction in share value on his corporation, before coming back and reselling all those shares he had caused to drop in price. Probably the most blatant form of insider trading possible. But, that's a speculation and a rumor. Nothing evidence wise is/was present just the 'word on the streets'.
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Shadarle
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Posted - 2007.10.14 18:17:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Shar Tegral
Secondly, why is buyback less than initial purchase price?
First, I have no clue about this IPO.
About the question you asked that I quoted:
Because if buyback is equal to investment then you're really just getting a loan, not an investment. I've never understood why buybacks should always be 100%. The reason to use a 100% buyback is if you're trying to sure up confidence and thus are willing you buy back any share for full value because the corp is confident in its future. But otherwise, offering a 100% buyback is merely a way to offer people a short term way to gain 5-10%+ profit. Especially if you offer buyback and resale of stock at any point... you buy at the end of a month and sell back at the beginning of a month.
I see nothing wrong, in most cases, of buyback being Share Price - Avg Div. Tho of course I'd always love full buyback as an investor, I wouldn't necessarily rule an IPO out that did a 90-95% buyback, especially if it payed out well.
Tanking Setups Compared
Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained |
Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2007.10.14 19:44:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Shadarle
I've never understood why buybacks should always be 100%. The reason to use a 100% buyback is if you're trying to shore up confidence and thus are willing you buy back any share for full value because the corp is confident in its future.
In the early stages of an ipo, with a positive NAV, I'd suspect that the share price is worth higher than the issue price. Offering it for lower seems... shady to me. And for me, if I was in this position, it would not be about shoring up confidence but expressing complete confidence. Confidence that is in line with the numbers reported. Originally by: Shadarle
Because if buyback is equal to investment then you're really just getting a loan, not an investment.
But otherwise, offering a 100% buyback is merely a way to offer people a short term way to gain 5-10%+ profit. Especially if you offer buyback and resale of stock at any point... you buy at the end of a month and sell back at the beginning of a month.
Essentially all investments are a loan. Shares are just part ownership in the corporation however setting buy back is not open to dicussion amongst the shareholders is it? After all, repeatedly we point out how unlike the real word the eve financial system is. Especially when the corporation is, by default, defacto ruled by the corporation. So, the ipo and share issuance is just another form of loan. Any speculative trading on those shares is a complete secondary market having little to do with, or should, the functioning and fair practive of the issuer. (As Ricdic pointed out, that's called insider trading.) Not that there is anything that can be done at this point. Issuer has the money, repayment and/or handling of those funds is solely up to him and his investors are totally, and utterly, trapped with no say. (Again proving that eve != real life.) Originally by: Shadarle
I see nothing wrong, in most cases, of buyback being Share Price - Avg Div. Tho of course I'd always love full buyback as an investor, I wouldn't necessarily rule an IPO out that did a 90-95% buyback, especially if it payed out well.
I wouldn't either... I was just surprised that the buyback was reduced so early in the life of the issue. I always structure my buybacks at 100% but within a framework that doesn't allow for shenanigans up to a certain point. After all, people invest in an issue to profit. Stopping them from doing so is, imho, dishonest.
It's A GIRL!!!!! |
Professor Bunsen
Optech Mineral Ventures
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Posted - 2007.10.14 20:19:00 -
[7]
I'm assuming that this is little good humoured trolling 
There was no commitment to a buyback with this IPO, so the right way to view this is simply as an additional service to investors. As I'm sure you seasoned warriors know only too well it is a pain in the **** to unravel mineral holdings and stock at the drop of a hat because an investor wants their money back. OMV is not a bank IPO, it's not even a unit trust and there is no obligation on a IPO to simply give investors their money back on request at 100% NAV, unless that is the commitment at the outset. I see it as entirely proper that those remaining invested should benefit in this situation, either from selling available shares at a premium to NAV, or buying back at a discount.
You may take a different view and line with your dealings, that's your call.
Shar, in your last post you as good as imply that the above behaviour was "shady" and "dishonest". It's not, and I'd like you to reconsider those comments.
Bunsen
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Ezoran DuBlaidd
Rivers Enterprises
Power Corrupts Industry's
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Posted - 2007.10.14 21:00:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Shar Tegral
After all, people invest in an issue to profit. Stopping them from doing so is, imho, dishonest.
what does that have to do with this buyback offer?
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Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2007.10.15 00:37:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Professor Bunsen
Shar, in your last post you as good as imply that the above behaviour was "shady" and "dishonest". It's not, and I'd like you to reconsider those comments.
Not at all. My question to you was one of academic curiousity, that's all. My answer to Shadarle was to the generic situations described. You know how sometimes this discussions can range all around a topic, from specific to general. That's all it was. Here there's no smoke, no fire.
It's A GIRL!!!!! |
Professor Bunsen
Optech Mineral Ventures
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Posted - 2007.10.15 07:18:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Shar Tegral
Here there's no smoke, no fire
Many thanks for that. Now back to the job at hand.
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Professor Bunsen
Optech Mineral Ventures
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Posted - 2007.10.26 18:33:00 -
[11]
OPT-M Results - Fortnight ended 27/10/07
- Eve-Index programming is completed, final testing planned for this weekend. Some work still to do on help and support pages.
- Initial mineral options will be in Trit, Pye, and Mex
- Valuation at start of 2 week period 10.21 bil
- NAV at end of this period is 10.629 bil, i.e. 419 million increase (net of salary)
- OMV will buyback shares at 1010k
- EGSEX listing applied for, awaiting brokers
Bunsen
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Professor Bunsen
Optech Mineral Ventures
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Posted - 2007.11.08 21:23:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Professor Bunsen on 08/11/2007 21:24:10
OPT-M Results - Fortnight ended 9/11/07
- Valuation at start of 2 week period 10.691 bil
- NAV at end of this period is 11.089 bil, i.e. 398 million increase (net of salary)
- Equivalent 8.8% monthly growth on launch price
- OMV will buyback shares at 1055k
- Now RESX listed, thanks Balogh
- EGSEX listing applied for, awaiting brokers
If you've been tracking the Jita mineral prices you'll know thats worth a small 
Bunsen
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Potsnack
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Posted - 2007.11.08 21:52:00 -
[13]
Good work sir and thanks for the update.
Cheers
Pot
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Professor Bunsen
Optech Mineral Ventures
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Posted - 2007.11.19 23:34:00 -
[14]
Quote:
2007.11.19 18:41
Transstellar has declared war on Optech Scientific.
After 24 hours fighting can legally occur between those involved.
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La'yla
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Posted - 2007.11.20 01:32:00 -
[15]
when should we be expecting dividend payments and the like?
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EBANK Ricdic
Eve-Tech Savings n Loans
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Posted - 2007.11.20 02:13:00 -
[16]
Originally by: La'yla
when should we be expecting dividend payments and the like?
Never
OPTECH is a growth fund. You sell your stocks when the price is right
WWW.EVE-BANK.NET
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Professor Bunsen
Optech Mineral Ventures
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Posted - 2007.11.20 08:50:00 -
[17]
Originally by: EBANK Ricdic
Originally by: La'yla
when should we be expecting dividend payments and the like?
Never
Correct. Further results will be out next week in-line with the planned fortnightly schedule and they are expected to be in-line with previous performance i.e. somewhere north of 7% monthly growth.
Despite the prospectus having been clear about the "no divs capital growth only" nature of the fund it seems that this did not register with a few investors as I've had a couple of messages asking about divs. As a general strategy (though not a prospectus commitment) I plan to maintain a buy-back price of around 3% under NAV (Eve mail me directly if you wish to avail yourself of this) and if any investor wants to sell back shares and gives me a couple of weeks notice I will try to get closer to a NAV price if you give me some (1 week +) notice. That would rather depend on the value of shares your talking about (less = easier to accomodate).
Hope that covers all the bases. As always if an investor has an issue, contact me directly please.
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Angelic Black
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Posted - 2007.11.20 21:25:00 -
[18]
Is your goal to eventually buy back all the shares? I.E. is there a time line in place or are you going to offer shares for sell throughout the process?
Example, I own 50 shares right now which were purchased at the IPO Launch. Someone else decides that they are ready for their money and they sell the shares back to you for 1.25 million. Will you in turn put those shares back for sell at the new NAV or keep them until you have privatized the entire operation?
Also, is there any way for people to make secondary and tertiary bets on this stock? Example being that I have X number of shares now that I would like to sell because I need/want to buy a new battleship etc...and in two months time I want to repurchase those X number of shares back again. Will I have to go through you for all these transactions and will you even let me do this?
I don't remember if this was all covered in the initial IPO thread, if it is then I will go back and do more research.
Thanks,
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Professor Bunsen
Optech Mineral Ventures
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Posted - 2007.11.21 08:45:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Professor Bunsen on 21/11/2007 08:45:00
Originally by: Angelic Black
Is your goal to eventually buy back all the shares? I.E. is there a time line in place or are you going to offer shares for sell throughout the process?
Example, I own 50 shares right now which were purchased at the IPO Launch. Someone else decides that they are ready for their money and they sell the shares back to you for 1.25 million. Will you in turn put those shares back for sell at the new NAV or keep them until you have privatized the entire operation?
Also, is there any way for people to make secondary and tertiary bets on this stock? Example being that I have X number of shares now that I would like to sell because I need/want to buy a new battleship etc...and in two months time I want to repurchase those X number of shares back again. Will I have to go through you for all these transactions and will you even let me do this?
If shares are bought back I will offer them for public sale, as I would like to maintain rather than increase my 5bil position. My reason for not increasing my own holding is that I value the risk sharing of that position which will be important when I move the fund to option trading.
As stated above I would buy back as close to NAV as I can get for you, taking into account the notice you give and the size of the shareholding. TBH 50 is doable instantly, but if someone wanted to sell back a bil I would have to unravel some positions. I would probably put the shares up for sale on RESX at a premium to NAV as the best means of optimising shareholder value, however as we are listed you might be best advised to do the same. In effect the corp buy-back is simply giving you liquidity.
As far being able to get hold of future stock I think you're looking at a RESX buy order to tempt others to sell.
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EBANK Ricdic
Eve-Tech Savings n Loans
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Posted - 2007.11.21 09:12:00 -
[20]
EBANK are happy to offer stock buybacks for Optech at a rate of 95% of NAV.
WWW.EVE-BANK.NET
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Daeva Vios
PhaseShifter Technologies
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Posted - 2007.11.22 00:09:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Daeva Vios on 22/11/2007 00:10:01
This style of offering is one that I have been looking forward to for a long time. I'm extremely happy that someone is willing to take the jump and get into capital growth instead of the usual dividend payment schedule. It's always a bit of a risk to introduce new methods in markets that have become complacent, and new methods are essential for growth.
That said...I know this was discussed above, but I'd like to introduce the idea again. Is there any plan for you to increase the percentage of NAV used in buyback? A higher percentage (perhaps even just for a limited amount of shares per month) would demonstrate your personal confidence in your ability to grow capital and would further increase share value on the secondary market.
Ultimately the decision is yours, and I would not have invested if I did not have confidence in your ability to grow your capital, but throwing your shareholders a bone like this would not be remiss, imo.
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Professor Bunsen
Optech Mineral Ventures
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Posted - 2007.11.22 10:28:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Daeva Vios
but throwing your shareholders a bone like this would not be remiss, imo.
The bone I'm currently throwing investors was 8.8% last month, a corp buyback of 3% under NAV, an offer of a buyback of closer to 100% NAV if investors give me 1-2 weeks notice of their wish to sell.
As I suggested above, I would suggest a RESX buy order where you may find someone willing to take on some this skeletal offering at a premium to NAV.
If my bone gets bigger I can promise investors they will be the first to know. Other than that there are currently no other bones on offer.
Bunsen
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Ricdic
Caldari
Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd
Zzz
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Posted - 2007.11.22 11:25:00 -
[23]
Well EBANK have the capital to handle Bunsen's buyback. It's a kinda double edged sword. He can't do the most possible with his fund if he has capital sitting idle. EBANK won't need to cash in the isk tomorrow, as having liquid isk on hand is quite normal for a bank anyway, we design our operations based on a considerable % sitting in a wallet doing nothing.
That's why I offered to take up Bunsen stocks as they come through at 95% of NAV. Ensures he can use the stock to max performance and EBANK can sell him back batches if they choose at more extended periods.
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Professor Bunsen
Optech Mineral Ventures
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Posted - 2007.11.22 12:23:00 -
[24]
Nice offer, and many thanks for that Ricdic. So now we have 3 buy-back options:-
Immediate purchase any amount @ 95% NAV from EBank Global Domination Enterprises
Immediate purchase up to 100 mil total/week @ 97% NAV from Optech
Delayed purchase 2 weeks notice any amount @ 99% NAV from Optech
I think this subject is probably DONE now and I'm considering getting OPTECHs famously thorough complaints department onto the next "suggestion". If you remember they charge 10 mil per post 
Reminds me of the saying "Customer service is like shagging a gorilla. You don't stop when you're satisfied, you stop when the gorilla is satisfied"
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FastLearner
Fury Holdings
Brutally Clever Empire
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Posted - 2007.11.22 12:26:00 -
[25]
You can add a 4th option to the list.
Fury Bank will do immediate buybacks of any quantity at 100% of NAV. Just join chat channel "Fury Bank", wait for someone listed in the topic to show up and sell to them. Or mail "Fury Banker".
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Professor Bunsen
Optech Mineral Ventures
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Posted - 2007.11.22 16:19:00 -
[26]
OPT-M Results - Fortnight ended 23/11/07
- Valuation at start of 2 week period 11.089 bil
- NAV at end of this period is 11.394 bil, i.e. 305 million increase (net of salary)
- Last months growth 7% on launch price
- OMV will buyback shares at 1105k
- EGSEX listing applied for, still need 1 more broker
Bunsen
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Eric Nolani
Dark Magix Inc.
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Posted - 2007.11.23 08:33:00 -
[27]
Is there somewhere I can check for if/when shares come available?
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ôDoesnÆt it **** you off to be beat at your own game!ö û MUDVAYNE æSilencedÆ |
Calgorac
The Arrow Project
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2007.11.24 03:42:00 -
[28]
ttt
Latest News |
Professor Bunsen
Optech Mineral Ventures
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Posted - 2007.12.01 14:32:00 -
[29]
Corp bought back 200 shares from Sgt Jonez. Selling them on as 2 blocks of 100 by auction in game. 7 day auctions set by corp "Optech Mineral Ventures" and is for 1 scourge missile. I'll transfer the auction winner the 100 shares.
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Nummb
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.12.01 21:21:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Professor Bunsen
OPT-M Results - Fortnight ended 23/11/07
- Valuation at start of 2 week period 11.089 bil
- NAV at end of this period is 11.394 bil, i.e. 305 million increase (net of salary)
- Last months growth 7% on launch price
- OMV will buyback shares at 1105k
- EGSEX listing applied for, still need 1 more broker
Bunsen
Quick question from an American who doesn't quite understand math as done across the pond. If you are buying back shares at 1105k is that 1 million 105 thousand isk? I.E. 1,105,000 isk or written 1.105 million?
I bought 50 shares at 1 million isk each at the IPO launch, so that means that my 50 shares are worth 1.105 million isk each, meaning that my initial investment of 50 million is now worth 55,250,000 million isk netting an 11% ROI, correct?
If not, I need to take a look at how I do math before I continue on my production line  .
DA RULES BY CCP: NO SIG 4 U! - Cortes
Originally by: Ricdic
Are you there god, it's me Ricdic
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