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why are torp ranges being nerfed?

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Stuart Price Caldari Havoc Inc	Posted - 2007.10.16 23:58:00 - [61] Burn Eden are almost certainly rubbing their hands with glee at the upcoming changes. Come to think of it, so am I. BS5 now has another use beyond pumping blaster range and tank power on the rokh. Getting a ROF somewhere around SIX SECONDS with siege launchers is not going to be fun for whatever target is in range, particularly if it's being painted and webbed (not necessarily having to be the Raven itself). As for jav torps, well. On the test server, for a laugh, I rolled out in an Abaddon with a full rack of tachs and a crapload of damage/tracking mods. Melted one raven in about six seconds, then another one started hammering me with javs from about 70km away. They moved frighteningly fast and smashed my plate tank down to less than half armour in the time it took me to align and warp away. My lasers barely dented him in return. Make no mistake, in the hands of a competent pilot, the Raven is going to be fearsome once again (I remember the pre-missile-nerf days when a Raven with cruise missiles and an autotargetter would absolutely annihilate gangs of smaller ships in short order!). Hell, I might even train torps 5 and I'm a gunnery nut through and through. "I got soul but I'm not a soldier"
Altered Ego Solstice Systems Development Concourse	Posted - 2007.10.17 00:07:00 - [62] Edited by: Altered Ego on 17/10/2007 00:11:21 Originally by: Qui Shon But this crap, that few had a problem with, that nobody whined about, this I did not see coming. Why did they have to ruin it for petes sake. Actually Everybodywhined about it, everybody being the Raven pilots who want to be able to go toe to toe with a Mega. This change will give you better close in damage a better chance of survival, and it's being implemented in a balanced way. Now blasterthon pilots are gonna think twice before jumping a Raven.
Ararius EP0CH Black Sun Cartel	Posted - 2007.10.17 00:13:00 - [63] I'm fine with this change, just so long as npc battleships dont spam torps at me from 50km away And make all battleships keep below 30km max range ;D Im ugly, just look at my face!
Danjira Ryuujin	Posted - 2007.10.17 00:15:00 - [64] Edited by: Danjira Ryuujin on 17/10/2007 00:15:48 Originally by: Gamesguy Originally by: Danjira Ryuujin Edited by: Danjira Ryuujin on 16/10/2007 23:23:10 Originally by: Gamesguy Stop spreading the bull****. The current torpedos dont do full damage to phoons either (320 sig vs 400 exp radius). And with one painter it puts the 400 sig megathron at 540 sig. You see, there is this skill called signature focusing. Current torps also have over 100k range so the reduction from signature isn't that big of a deal. On the other hand shooting a 530 radius torp at a 440 painted phoon(that includes singature focusing) you'll get a ~18% reduction in damage. Unlike guns where tracking, and target painters can play a role in damage vs an undersized signature, missiles only have painters. Torpedos aren't affected by any explosion radius rigs, or skills either. What does range have to do with explosion radius? Nothing. And its called javelin torpedos. No, its called damage reduction. When you're closer you need to do more damage to compensate for the risk. If you're siting at 100k shooting torpedos the 8% explosion radius reduction isn't an issue. When you're in blaster range with a painter getting an 18% damage reduction, suddenly it is. How do javelins factor into sub 30km torpedos fight?
Qui Shon	Posted - 2007.10.17 00:17:00 - [65] Originally by: Murukan Originally by: Qui Shon And don't give me any crap about fotm, since Torp Raven is fot-year(s) for missioning. maybe the answer is don't train for the flavor of the month?? Oh look, another one that can't read. I primarily fly Gallente, in Gal and Minnie space, and I cross-trained for the Torp Raven. Caldari playerbase my ass, I don't have a race/faction. I guess that goes to show how the amount of "idiot whiners", that are whining about whiners don't do anything for the Minnie Pies reputation except reinforce the notion that none of them can read, and none of them have a clue.
d026 THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.10.17 00:21:00 - [66] Originally by: Altered Ego Edited by: Altered Ego on 17/10/2007 00:11:21 Originally by: Qui Shon But this crap, that few had a problem with, that nobody whined about, this I did not see coming. Why did they have to ruin it for petes sake. Actually Everybodywhined about it, everybody being the Raven pilots who want to be able to go toe to toe with a Mega. This change will give you better close in damage a better chance of survival, and it's being implemented in a balanced way. Now blasterthon pilots are gonna think twice before jumping a Raven. NO! they can melt the new raven even quicker considering it will be left with a 2 slot tank. and no even with 33% more dps you are not going to kill a 100k mega hp buffer.
Qui Shon	Posted - 2007.10.17 00:27:00 - [67] Edited by: Qui Shon on 17/10/2007 00:33:02 Originally by: Altered Ego Edited by: Altered Ego on 17/10/2007 00:11:21 Originally by: Qui Shon But this crap, that few had a problem with, that nobody whined about, this I did not see coming. Why did they have to ruin it for petes sake. Actually Everybodywhined about it, everybody being the Raven pilots who want to be able to go toe to toe with a Mega. This change will give you better close in damage a better chance of survival, and it's being implemented in a balanced way. Now blasterthon pilots are gonna think twice before jumping a Raven. Bah, just use another Mega or a Domi, that's what I'd use . Or change Rokh bonus. Pretty soon, every race will be the same, and none will have an advantage in any field, just slight tactical differences. Faction fanatics may think thats great, I think it sucks.
Gamesguy Amarr D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.10.17 00:36:00 - [68] Originally by: 1GOR well, i saw a pig fly once. Gimme a setup or shut up. This is the standard gank plated neutron mega setup: 7x Neutron Blaster Cannon II (CN AM L) 1x Quad 100mn mwd or T2(doesnt matter) 1x Warp Disruptor II 1x Fleeting Web 1x Medium eletrochem inject 3x MFS II 2x 1600mm plate 1x EANM II 1x DCU II 5x Ogre II 3x Trimark armor pump I. 1252 DPS, max velocity 969 m/s, effective hp 105k. Fits with a cpu implant. This is a raven with the new torp changes 6x Siege Missile Launcher II (CN torpedos) 1x Quad Lif MWD 1x Target Painter II 1x Large Extender II 2x Invul II 1x Fleeting web OR Medium inject. 3x BCU II 1x 1600mm plate 1x DCU II 5x Hammerhead II, 5x Warrior II. 3x Core Defense Field Extender I 1105 DPS, max velocity 1013 m/s, effective hp 106k. Fits with a PG implant. The mega has 150 more dps, and can scram, but the raven can start shooting earlier and do full damage from 30km, not to mention it can switch to javelin and hit 150k. In addition, the raven is slightly faster and has more flexibility in drones(for example you can carry a spare set of warriors for inties or a set of light ecm drones if you need to get away). In addition, the mega will be in the world of pain of the raven loads exp torps.
Qui Shon	Posted - 2007.10.17 00:44:00 - [69] Originally by: Gamesguy The mega has 150 more dps, and can scram, but the raven can start shooting earlier and do full damage from 30km, not to mention it can switch to javelin and hit 150k. Not if the Mega is moving at 969m/s. Was the explosion velocity 250? So that's more like 75-80% damage then. And you keep mentioning the Javelins as they presently are, but how many people think they will stay unchanged when torps functionality is being completely revamped.
Gamesguy Amarr D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.10.17 00:46:00 - [70] Originally by: Qui Shon Originally by: Gamesguy The mega has 150 more dps, and can scram, but the raven can start shooting earlier and do full damage from 30km, not to mention it can switch to javelin and hit 150k. Not if the Mega is moving at 969m/s. Was the explosion velocity 250? So that's more like 75-80% damage then. And you keep mentioning the Javelins as they presently are, but how many people think they will stay unchanged when torps functionality is being completely revamped. It takes the mega 23 seconds to get to 969m/s. And its not like the raven cant just mwd away to keep range. I fully expect javelin torpedos to get nerfed down to javelin HAM range, but I doubt anything else about them will change.
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.10.17 01:52:00 - [71] Originally by: Qui Shon Originally by: Gamesguy The mega has 150 more dps, and can scram, but the raven can start shooting earlier and do full damage from 30km, not to mention it can switch to javelin and hit 150k. Not if the Mega is moving at 969m/s. Was the explosion velocity 250? So that's more like 75-80% damage then. And you keep mentioning the Javelins as they presently are, but how many people think they will stay unchanged when torps functionality is being completely revamped. You realize that if the mega is going that fast, he wont be hitting anything right?
Grendelsbane	Posted - 2007.10.17 03:38:00 - [72] Originally by: Liang Nuren Edited by: Liang Nuren on 15/10/2007 16:47:41 Originally by: Spacetrooper Kili Does mega need to fit tracking computers to cause full damage to other BS? NO. Does raven need to fit target painters to get full damage on BS? YES Is that balanced? NO WHY THE HELL IS CALDARI GETTING NERFED AGAIN? Can the Mega deal 900 DPS from 30km? Come again. Liang Edit: No, I'm not doing this. ok u win ur always right omg im sorry plz Most Caldari ships work best with a couple others supporting them with tackle/ECM/whatever anyways.
Atius Tirawa Minmatar Wreckless Abandon Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.10.17 05:08:00 - [73] Edited by: Atius Tirawa on 17/10/2007 05:11:15 Other then a Arazu/Lach - if it can warp jam you, you can shoot it. So Most all combat takes place within the 30km range for PvP. Even long range wepons load EMP or Anti-Matter or Multi ammo for the boost. With this DPS increace, you can now hit anything that is scramming you hard and fast. If they warp off - you win the field, if they stay, they have to chew threw your tank to reach you. So one Webber/Painter + the tough tank, PDU and BCUs in the lows and off you go. I think this is a good change. The problem is the increaced explotion radius, it should remain the same or be cut down a little - not increaced. It should do 100% damage against the heavyest BBs, 80% to BCC, 60% to Cruisers and so on. Finally. Solo pvp is a myth. And with Caldari, its just not an option. Its not a bad thing it can't. Minmatar can't tank, so they can run. Caldari can tank and kill - so - bring a friend along and kick ass with your torp raven. I know I have had one parked in Empire on an alt for 3 years now (Torp Spec 4) and I am looking forward to dusting off the monster.

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