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Help With IPO Scammer Names Needed

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Fitz VonHeise The New Order. United Connection's	Posted - 2007.10.17 23:02:00 - [1] Those of you who have been around a while and have this information I would like to include the names of past Corp IPO scammers in my Thieves Of EvE link. Yes a link to the post showing the proof would be great... but if not just mention the names of the scammers you know and I will try finding those posts. (And if there is disagreement about a name point that out too)
Minerva Vulcan Caldari The Nexus Foundation	Posted - 2007.10.17 23:04:00 - [2] Edited by: Minerva Vulcan on 17/10/2007 23:04:10 General Starscream AKA Miss Fiona would be one! As seen here: http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=613264
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2007.10.17 23:15:00 - [3] Originally by: Minerva Vulcan General Starscream AKA Miss Fiona would be one! This is unfair. Like most alt situations in eve, we suspect but there is little proof. Which is why such a website is a hard sell. I know, I did it for a time. It's A GIRL!!!!!
Minerva Vulcan Caldari The Nexus Foundation	Posted - 2007.10.17 23:27:00 - [4] Originally by: Shar Tegral Originally by: Minerva Vulcan General Starscream AKA Miss Fiona would be one! This is unfair. Like most alt situations in eve, we suspect but there is little proof. Which is why such a website is a hard sell. I know, I did it for a time. IP addresses and an increasing web of alts related to him are fairly convincing, however. Either way, even by some change if Miss Fiona isn't General Starscream, given 'her' conduct on this forum, I'd consider that character to be nothing but a common scammer. I've seen nothing that would make me trust it with a fraction of an ISK.
Hanoi Hana Mitsubishi Group	Posted - 2007.10.17 23:42:00 - [5] Originally by: Shar Tegral Originally by: Minerva Vulcan General Starscream AKA Miss Fiona would be one! This is unfair. Like most alt situations in eve, we suspect but there is little proof. Which is why such a website is a hard sell. I know, I did it for a time. I was also a little worried that people were taking the General Starscream = Miss Fiona to a far extreme. However, after Curzon Dax was brought to the thread and stated that they had the same IP on the Poker server AND in combination with Miss Fiona's unique speech style, I have lost any doubt about the matter.
FastLearner Fury Holdings Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2007.10.18 00:08:00 - [6] Originally by: Minerva Vulcan Originally by: Shar Tegral Originally by: Minerva Vulcan General Starscream AKA Miss Fiona would be one! This is unfair. Like most alt situations in eve, we suspect but there is little proof. Which is why such a website is a hard sell. I know, I did it for a time. IP addresses and an increasing web of alts related to him are fairly convincing, however. Either way, even by some change if Miss Fiona isn't General Starscream, given 'her' conduct on this forum, I'd consider that character to be nothing but a common scammer. I've seen nothing that would make me trust it with a fraction of an ISK. I wouldn't trust Miss Fiona with any of my ISK - but that's because I think his/her posts demonstrate incompetence, not because I think he/she is a scammer. I'm VERY wary of any website which claims to somehow identify who is/isn't a scammer - as tht site is claiming some unique ability to deteremine what people's intent is. I don't personally have any knowledge that General Starscream is a scammer. I wouldn't invest in anyone with that name even if I felt they were genuine. Neither of those statements (whilst both 100% true) has any probative value to anyone else. A website claiming they can judge right from wrong is dangerous - as it leads people to believe that there's some independent third party with some better perspective than everyone else (either that, or it's a waste of time). By all means produce a website reporting on the market - and report on who will answer questions and who won't. But don't approach it from a perspective of assumptions about who's right and who's wrong based on forum posts. And don't assume you can somehow appoint yourself as the arbiter of all that's good/bad in Eve: we have enough people trying to set themselves up in that role already. For all I know Miss Fiona could be semi-literate but the best business person since sliced bread. If so, I'll be missing out on a great opportunity. And I couldn't give a **** whether he/she does well. But I DO care if people get black-balled just because a vocal minority oppose them - and I'd hate to see a website backing that perspective.
Digital Nightfall	Posted - 2007.10.18 02:32:00 - [7] Originally by: FastLearner Originally by: Minerva Vulcan Originally by: Shar Tegral Originally by: Minerva Vulcan General Starscream AKA Miss Fiona would be one! This is unfair. Like most alt situations in eve, we suspect but there is little proof. Which is why such a website is a hard sell. I know, I did it for a time. IP addresses and an increasing web of alts related to him are fairly convincing, however. Either way, even by some change if Miss Fiona isn't General Starscream, given 'her' conduct on this forum, I'd consider that character to be nothing but a common scammer. I've seen nothing that would make me trust it with a fraction of an ISK. I wouldn't trust Miss Fiona with any of my ISK - but that's because I think his/her posts demonstrate incompetence, not because I think he/she is a scammer. I'm VERY wary of any website which claims to somehow identify who is/isn't a scammer - as tht site is claiming some unique ability to deteremine what people's intent is. I don't personally have any knowledge that General Starscream is a scammer. I wouldn't invest in anyone with that name even if I felt they were genuine. Neither of those statements (whilst both 100% true) has any probative value to anyone else. A website claiming they can judge right from wrong is dangerous - as it leads people to believe that there's some independent third party with some better perspective than everyone else (either that, or it's a waste of time). By all means produce a website reporting on the market - and report on who will answer questions and who won't. But don't approach it from a perspective of assumptions about who's right and who's wrong based on forum posts. And don't assume you can somehow appoint yourself as the arbiter of all that's good/bad in Eve: we have enough people trying to set themselves up in that role already. For all I know Miss Fiona could be semi-literate but the best business person since sliced bread. If so, I'll be missing out on a great opportunity. And I couldn't give a **** whether he/she does well. But I DO care if people get black-balled just because a vocal minority oppose them - and I'd hate to see a website backing that perspective. big freaking quote there :) but I agree with the last poster above. I dont know that Im convinced Fiona is Starscam, but going on her posts in general, I dont think she demonstrates the competence or knowledge Id prefer in the ceo of a multi billion IPO. I also dont allways understand her posts or ideas, so I never even considered investing. I think it would be unfair to add fionas list to some kind of scam wanted poster out there. I think as a requirement for such a thing, you'd need people to actually come forward and state clearly that they were scammed by the individual. We have left the dark ages afterall.
Miss Fiona Gallente Nexus Trading guild	Posted - 2007.10.18 03:04:00 - [8] Thats just baseless info. im not the same as Starscam, im not the same gender nor do i live in the same land as him. i proved my ip was diffrent, and i did even go so far to prove im a girl. this is just a bad mistake, and peopel should let this go by now.if they have any selfrespect for them self, trolling people whom havent done anything is bad.
Shadarle	Posted - 2007.10.18 04:48:00 - [9] Edited by: Shadarle on 18/10/2007 04:48:53 Originally by: Miss Fiona Thats just baseless info. im not the same as Starscam, im not the same gender nor do i live in the same land as him. i proved my ip was diffrent, and i did even go so far to prove im a girl. this is just a bad mistake, and peopel should let this go by now.if they have any selfrespect for them self, trolling people whom havent done anything is bad. You proved you were a girl? You proved you had a different IP? You can prove you live in a different "land"? How exactly do you know where General Starscream lives to know you don't live right next door to him? It seems impossible to know you don't live in the same place without knowing him personally... and if you do that is the end of it. Tanking Setups Compared Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained
Ambo 2nd Outcasters	Posted - 2007.10.18 07:43:00 - [10] Back on topic - I also consider this sort of website rather dangerous. Firstly because, depending upon your criteria you could list chars that have not actually scammed anyone (that we know of), like Fiona. Secondly, because many scammers will have multiple old and seemingly unconnected alts. Thirdly, because I (or anyone else) could decide tomorrow that they are going to run a scam IPO. I am also unsure what a site like this would actually be used for. The investment market is pretty good these days, the market forums do a great job of flushing out scam/bad IPOs. It only takes a few minutes usually to search around and find if a character has a slightly dodgy history.
Shadarle	Posted - 2007.10.18 11:59:00 - [11] What I could potentially see this being useful for is Jita morons. People who, while in Jita, read local and see someone like Fiona/Starscream, etc advertising shares. They could look these people up and see the bad rep they have. The site would have to be VERY clear that it is not the final source on anyone and it could be wrong. But then go ahead and point to the proof, multiple threads if needed, so people can make up their own minds. Tanking Setups Compared Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained
Sphynx Stormlord Gallente Anqara Tech	Posted - 2007.10.18 12:45:00 - [12] Originally by: Shadarle What I could potentially see this being useful for is Jita morons. Sadly anything designed to help morons is fundementally flawed. Morons are not going to check, and will be easily parted from their isk.
Setana Manoro Gallente Firefly Inc.	Posted - 2007.10.18 14:41:00 - [13] Edited by: Setana Manoro on 18/10/2007 14:42:10 I'll have to say this again, I don't care if she is a scammer or not, and untill she runs off with the money she cannot be judged as such, to each his own interpretation. I had little respect for Curzon Dax, but when i saw that he used out of game resources to "prove" what is otherwise a player, playing the game in a way that CCP condones, i have lost all little respect i had. Curzon, you are a piece of **. Replace ** with whatever you want. Good thing you had the brains not to publish his/her IP or i would be have been the first to petition your ass. Failgeddon wrecks CCP for XXX annoyed customers !
LaVista Vista Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2007.10.18 14:54:00 - [14] Originally by: Setana Manoro Care to link Curzon's post ? http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=612192&page=3#83 Proud nublet of more public ISK than * CAP4U - The Plan
Motivated Prophet Zerodot Schools Power Corrupts Industry's	Posted - 2007.10.18 15:29:00 - [15] Originally by: LaVista Vista Originally by: Setana Manoro Care to link Curzon's post ? http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=612192&page=3#83 To be fair, in that post, Curzon says he matched "MAC Addresses", which would be impossible, as they are a layer-2 address and aren't carried anywhere in the packet that arrives at the Poker Mavens server (the frame and its associated sender MAC address, of course, never having exiting the LAN). Then again, he might have meant "PC ID", which is a Poker Mavens-specific identifier consisting of the HDD serial number (trivially forgeable, but it would largely discount the possibility that they merely have the same ISP). MP -- Proud steward of 47 billion isk in public money, and counting. Ask me about mineral compression!
Shadarle	Posted - 2007.10.18 16:07:00 - [16] Originally by: Motivated Prophet Originally by: LaVista Vista Originally by: Setana Manoro Care to link Curzon's post ? http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=612192&page=3#83 To be fair, in that post, Curzon says he matched "MAC Addresses", which would be impossible, as they are a layer-2 address and aren't carried anywhere in the packet that arrives at the Poker Mavens server (the frame and its associated sender MAC address, of course, never having exiting the LAN). Then again, he might have meant "PC ID", which is a Poker Mavens-specific identifier consisting of the HDD serial number (trivially forgeable, but it would largely discount the possibility that they merely have the same ISP). MP If he matched a # derived from a HDD serial number that is far more conclusive than even an IP is... but an IP is pretty damn conclusive as it is. I wouldn't kill anyone over an IP match, but I sure as hell wouldn't give the person my money either. I have no sympathy for scammers... and even if the person in question is not a scammer she deserves what she gets because she is acting like a baby. Tanking Setups Compared Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained
Robacz Essence Trade Essence Enterprises	Posted - 2007.10.18 16:42:00 - [17] Originally by: Motivated Prophet To be fair, in that post, Curzon says he matched "MAC Addresses", which would be impossible, as they are a layer-2 address and aren't carried anywhere in the packet that arrives at the Poker Mavens server (the frame and its associated sender MAC address, of course, never having exiting the LAN). Then again, he might have meant "PC ID", which is a Poker Mavens-specific identifier consisting of the HDD serial number (trivially forgeable, but it would largely discount the possibility that they merely have the same ISP). MP I don't know what exactly is "Poker Mavens server", but if there is a custom client software run on client computer, it is possible to get MAC addresses (client software can read it locally and send it to server at login as part of login data). If it was web based client, there is a way how to read MAC via Java applet and log it on server side. MAC can be faked though. However we used MACs to ban a lot of cheaters in another online game, becouse they thought IP is the only thing our cheat protection could see.
Shadarle	Posted - 2007.10.18 16:51:00 - [18] Originally by: Robacz Edited by: Robacz on 18/10/2007 16:47:47 Originally by: Motivated Prophet To be fair, in that post, Curzon says he matched "MAC Addresses", which would be impossible, as they are a layer-2 address and aren't carried anywhere in the packet that arrives at the Poker Mavens server (the frame and its associated sender MAC address, of course, never having exiting the LAN). Then again, he might have meant "PC ID", which is a Poker Mavens-specific identifier consisting of the HDD serial number (trivially forgeable, but it would largely discount the possibility that they merely have the same ISP). MP I don't know what exactly is "Poker Mavens server", but if there is a custom client software run on client computer, it is possible to get MAC addresses (client software can read it locally and send it to server at login as part of login data). MAC can be faked though. However we used MACs to ban a lot of cheaters in another online game, becouse they thought IP is the only thing our cheat protection could see. While a MAC can be faked it is very rarely faked, especially because most people don't think they need to. Tanking Setups Compared Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained
Fitz VonHeise The New Order. United Connection's	Posted - 2007.10.18 17:35:00 - [19] Edited by: Fitz VonHeise on 18/10/2007 17:37:30 Originally by: Shadarle The site would have to be VERY clear that it is not the final source on anyone and it could be wrong. But then go ahead and point to the proof, multiple threads if needed, so people can make up their own minds. This is exactly what I have done. And if the person mentioned questions being one I even put up that comment with "disputed" next to their name. People can then read and make up their own mind about the veracity and trustworthiness of the person mentioned and those who make statments against them. (And I fixed the link above to go to correct one)
Oron	Posted - 2007.10.18 18:07:00 - [20] witch-hunt.
bluejeansandpudding	Posted - 2007.10.18 18:26:00 - [21] I looked at the list and there was a fair amount of universally recognized scammers. However you also placed many innocent people there with the only proof being a link to a thread in which they posted with no hint of any scamming. Do you ever remove names from your questionable list?
Fitz VonHeise The New Order. United Connection's	Posted - 2007.10.18 21:22:00 - [22] Originally by: bluejeansandpudding you also placed many innocent people there with the only proof being a link to a thread in which they posted with no hint of any scamming. Do you ever remove names from your questionable list. The list is now made up of mostly Corp Thieves... not scammers. And if someone disputes their name being there I list it as being disputed and people can read both sides of the argument to determine whether they should deal with them. Now if I had people with great reps in Eve vouch for them I would include that as well. Proving beyond a shadow of doubt guilt or innocence is about impossible in Eve. So people will have to make up there own mind about an accusation.
Shadarle	Posted - 2007.10.18 21:26:00 - [23] Originally by: Oron witch-hunt. Burn the witch! Tanking Setups Compared Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained
Oron	Posted - 2007.10.18 22:09:00 - [24] Edited by: Oron on 18/10/2007 22:09:30 Originally by: Shadarle Originally by: Oron witch-hunt. Burn the witch! Come on, Shadarle. Our recent conflict must not lead into general trollage. That would be market discuession unworthy, would you agree? :) On the other side, there is no way to rescue this thread anyway....
bluejeansandpudding	Posted - 2007.10.18 22:33:00 - [25] Originally by: Fitz VonHeise Originally by: bluejeansandpudding you also placed many innocent people there with the only proof being a link to a thread in which they posted with no hint of any scamming. Do you ever remove names from your questionable list. The list is now made up of mostly Corp Thieves... not scammers. And if someone disputes their name being there I list it as being disputed and people can read both sides of the argument to determine whether they should deal with them. Now if I had people with great reps in Eve vouch for them I would include that as well. Proving beyond a shadow of doubt guilt or innocence is about impossible in Eve. So people will have to make up there own mind about an accusation. I see several names there and I know why. None of it has anything to do with corp thievery.
Shadarle	Posted - 2007.10.18 22:49:00 - [26] Originally by: Oron Edited by: Oron on 18/10/2007 22:09:30 Originally by: Shadarle Originally by: Oron witch-hunt. Burn the witch! Come on, Shadarle. Our recent conflict must not lead into general trollage. That would be market discuession unworthy, would you agree? :) On the other side, there is no way to rescue this thread anyway.... Sorry, what is your problem exactly? I don't see anything wrong with a website trying to create a system for people to call out scammers/thieves. Especially if it allows people to post comments and such. Sure it could be abused... but the fact that it could be doesn't mean it will be. Tanking Setups Compared Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained
Pang Grohl Gallente Sudo Corp	Posted - 2007.10.18 22:58:00 - [27] I'll say no thanks to McCarthyism. Si non adjuvas, noces (If you're not helping, you're hurting)
Shadarle	Posted - 2007.10.18 23:27:00 - [28] Originally by: Pang Grohl I'll say no thanks to McCarthyism. Witch hunt, McCarthyism, what other names can we think up for this? This is nothing like McCarthyism and likening it to McCarthyism is making light of McCarthyism. There is no one "in power" here who holds the final sway on anything. Anyone can post in that thread and can post in the threads linked in that thread. I really get annoyed when people compare things to historical events or people when they do not even come close in their severity. Tanking Setups Compared Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained
Pang Grohl Gallente Sudo Corp	Posted - 2007.10.19 00:18:00 - [29] Originally by: Shadarle Originally by: Pang Grohl I'll say no thanks to McCarthyism. Witch hunt, McCarthyism, what other names can we think up for this? This is nothing like McCarthyism and likening it to McCarthyism is making light of McCarthyism. There is no one "in power" here who holds the final sway on anything. Anyone can post in that thread and can post in the threads linked in that thread. I really get annoyed when people compare things to historical events or people when they do not even come close in their severity. It's funny how these kinds of things get softened by the same kinds of arguments. By comparison to witch trials and the Inquisition the McCarthy hearings weren't so bad. People weren't burned to death after all. Do you see where that kind of thinking gets you? In both witch hunts and the McCarthy hearings being accused was the equivalent of condemnation in the eyes of your neighbors. Regardless of the veracity of the claim, if you're accused of witchery, communism or scamming, you still bear the stigma of wrong doing. This is particularly true when the accusers and condemners get to be associated with positive concepts like patriotism, piousness, and security. The damage of the McCarthy hearings wasn't caused by a senator on a power trip, it was caused by average citizens using the commission to pursue their personal grudges and rivalries. So it will go with a name and shame website. Creating such a website creates the "authority". The "authority" gains credibility when ever the real thing is caught, which makes it that much harder for the wrongly accused to defend themselves. So, yes this is McCarthyism a la internet spaceships. Si non adjuvas, noces (If you're not helping, you're hurting)
Shadarle	Posted - 2007.10.19 01:54:00 - [30] Originally by: Pang Grohl So, yes this is McCarthyism a la internet spaceships. You can try to spin your comment any way you wish, it wasn't as bad to be labeled a communist as it was to be labeled a witch. Being shunned is not as bad as being burned alive or drowned or stoned or some other such horrible death. This is a member of the community making a collection of names of people who have scammed or stolen stuff. He even puts disputed next to any name in which someone disputes. And there is a link to the post explaining how the person stole or scammed. Do I see there being plenty of room for abuse in this? Yes. Do I think it is McCarthyism or Witch Hunting? No. First off, Witch Hunting was looking for something that wasn't even real. McCarthyism was looking for communists, which we now realize isn't such a big deal. In this case it is people who have actually done something specific which is not accepted by 99% of the community (namely stealing and/or scamming). It can be conclusively proven that someone has scammed or stolen something in at least some cases. In 10 years if people still play EVE they will not look back and say "those silly people, they didn't like scammers or thieves back then, how unenlightened they were". They will still hate scammers and thieves. It's apples and oranges and no matter how you spin it, calling this McCarthyism is merely an insult to anyone who was labeled a communist in that era and actually had to undergo real problems. Tanking Setups Compared Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained

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