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Jim Raynor	Posted - 2004.02.24 08:03:00 - [1] I am tired of seeing people using battleships as mining platforms. Is this really intended? I mean people own armageddons/apocolypses/megathrons/ect for the sole purpose of mining. I think we're missing a class of ship here, mining ships. Simular to industrials, perhaps a bit sturdier, and much better suited to mining. Mining lasers should be made so that they are easy to fit on mining ships but insanely difficult to place on battleships (make mining lasers use 200-300 CPU). ------ ROBBLE ROBBLE
Baun	Posted - 2004.02.24 08:07:00 - [2] The CPU option sounds viable. One might also consider having Mining Laser hardpoints, but this would require a rebalancing of all cruisers and frigates and is thus probably not a good idea. Then again, the CPU idea would also require a rebalancing of all cruisers and frigates. The Enemy's Gate is Down
Karsten	Posted - 2004.02.24 08:14:00 - [3] Edited by: Karsten on 24/02/2004 08:21:13 Why do people who do not mine complain about the way other people use thier ships? I dont care what you do in your ships - so dont complain how i handle my ships. BTW: what ship below a BS can survive staying in a belt in 0.0 systems now? PS: i dont love mining but when i have to do it i want to get it done fast and effective so i use the best platform i have to do it. Karsten "All your ISK belong to the Viking Brewery"
Jim Raynor	Posted - 2004.02.24 08:21:00 - [4] Quote: Edited by: Karsten on 24/02/2004 08:21:13 Why do people who do not mine complain about the way other people use thier ships? I dont care what you do in your ships - so dont complain how i handle my ships. BTW: what ship below a BS can survive staying in a belt in 0.0 systems now? PS: i dont love mining but when i have to do it i want to get it done fast and effective so i use the best platform i have to do it. who says arkanor belts are supposed to be mined solo? ------ ROBBLE ROBBLE
Karsten	Posted - 2004.02.24 08:22:00 - [5] Edited by: Karsten on 24/02/2004 08:23:29 me :-) (joke) before castor i did a lot of 0.0 mining and the only way to do it was in a BS Karsten "All your ISK belong to the Viking Brewery"
MSDborris	Posted - 2004.02.24 08:38:00 - [6] jim the best frig to mine in is gal imicus and with elte frigs. the Elite Frig (>Insert Name here >) Can use T2 DCM Lasers... but compare this to a megathon and mega wins... if ppl can afford to lose these its there choose Arg spelling so bad ( been up 20 hours or something Must Get sleep ! ) *** " MSDborris, " Baka!, Hentia! " ***
Siddy	Posted - 2004.02.24 09:14:00 - [7] yes.. we need.. seing Apoch stripping 1.0 is just discusting sight -------------------------------------------
Karsten	Posted - 2004.02.24 09:28:00 - [8] Quote: yes.. we need.. seing Apoch stripping 1.0 is just discusting sight what will it change? instead of Apochs the "special mining" ships will do this. it changes the optics but not the fact that it is possible to strip 1.0 systems. Net effect: - 1.0 system will be stripped as before - most people must learn skills for a new ship class Karsten "All your ISK belong to the Viking Brewery"
ElCoCo	Posted - 2004.02.24 10:31:00 - [9] Besides... Seeing a battleship in circulation makes you wonder if he`s setup for mining or fighting. Having mining ships will spoil the surprise! j/k Can`t say I like the idea of battleships mining but I`m one of those guys that seldom mine I vote yes!
Carpo Roolie	Posted - 2004.02.24 10:52:00 - [10] So people use a battleship to strip mine. So ? What other equipment is available for a career miner ? Most people seem to think uber mining shouldnt be a career. The only option to stop people mining in a BS but to allow people to rightly have a career in mining/refining is to create a miner with 7/8 lasers. They will still be able to strip mine however. The one benefit this would provide would be to give specialist roles. However this will not stop people whining about people being able to strip mine.
Jim Raynor	Posted - 2004.02.24 10:57:00 - [11] Quote: So people use a battleship to strip mine. So ? What other equipment is available for a career miner ? Most people seem to think uber mining shouldnt be a career. The only option to stop people mining in a BS but to allow people to rightly have a career in mining/refining is to create a miner with 7/8 lasers. They will still be able to strip mine however. The one benefit this would provide would be to give specialist roles. However this will not stop people whining about people being able to strip mine. This isn't about strip mining its the fact I can't stand the fact the best mining ships in this game are battleships. Battleships should be for fighting not for mining. ------ ROBBLE ROBBLE
Carpo Roolie	Posted - 2004.02.24 11:07:00 - [12] .... and until there are mining ships you cant whine people use the only available option
Siddy	Posted - 2004.02.24 11:08:00 - [13] jim is right.... and besides.. seing Big ugly Dedicatet miner indy whould be cool..... also Remove the Can mining....!!!!!!!!! -------------------------------------------
Denst Rowell	Posted - 2004.02.24 11:24:00 - [14] i always thought that a good idea would be to have mineing laser hardpoints like turret and missle. pooer frigs could be made better than some of the better frigs/cruisers by having more miner hardpoints. you could also give bs mabey 1 or 2 , why would a battle ship have mining lasers?????? bs should be for killing nuff said ----------------------------------------------- The Return Of Denst
Mamarto	Posted - 2004.02.24 11:30:00 - [15] You're forgetting that for the dedicated mining ship to be a better option than the bs mining ship, it would need to have a drone bay of 1500m¦ to 2500m¦ and defences to match the bs, otherwise it will never replace the battleships. Protection is a major issue, even to miners.
Dayon	Posted - 2004.02.24 11:55:00 - [16] Quote: The CPU option sounds viable. One might also consider having Mining Laser hardpoints, but this would require a rebalancing of all cruisers and frigates and is thus probably not a good idea. Then again, the CPU idea would also require a rebalancing of all cruisers and frigates. Why not make a big mining ship low Powercore and a huge amount of CPU. Then increase the CPU needs of miner2 and better but leave the miner1 as it is. This will not hurt the new players that need to mine in frigates and the ships could stay as they are. I think the miner ship should be a big slow ship like indy's with medium shield/armor a large structure and about 7 Hi slots and a cost at about 7-8mil. This ship should not be able to defend itself and would need excort. Solo miniers would still need to use BS but would not be the most efective way to mine anymore.
Slithereen	Posted - 2004.02.24 11:57:00 - [17] This has been said countless times before for many moons now, but CCP has not listened. Or perhaps its been heard and probably in planning stages but there are more immediete "content" that needs to go to the game first. I can imagine something like this. For example, an Amarrian miner, using the Bestower hull. The mass is the equivalent to a cruiser, can use the cruiser MWD. The powergrid however, is small, so you can't use medium guns. Don't want this to replace cruisers you know. It has significant armor though. It has multiple turret slots for mining turrets and a generous drone space. The price puts it in the range of a level 1 to 2 cruiser. It should require Miner 5 skill, drone 5 and drone interfacing skill, and a new mining-industrial skill. _______________________________________________ "Is it me or the bad guys just getting totally pathetic?"---Clover, Totally Spies, "Hope is wasted on the Hopeless."---Mandy, The Grim Adventures of Billy and Mandy. "Stars are holes in the sky from which the light of the Infinite shine through."---Confucius.
Gariuys	Posted - 2004.02.24 12:12:00 - [18] Quote: Quote: So people use a battleship to strip mine. So ? What other equipment is available for a career miner ? Most people seem to think uber mining shouldnt be a career. The only option to stop people mining in a BS but to allow people to rightly have a career in mining/refining is to create a miner with 7/8 lasers. They will still be able to strip mine however. The one benefit this would provide would be to give specialist roles. However this will not stop people whining about people being able to strip mine. This isn't about strip mining its the fact I can't stand the fact the best mining ships in this game are battleships. Battleships should be for fighting not for mining. For most if not all, and especially the newer players, mining is not a goal, it's a means. Mining is not a profession it's what allows you do other stuff like fighting. Some people forgot that not all can afford to lose a BS or two and not care, cause they can replace em by the dozens. And noone is thinking about why exactly Jim Raynor would like mining ops consisting of something else then strictly BSs? O and not all like being grouped with a dozen other people causing major lag and graphic problems to do the most tedious and boring thing in game there is. Freelancers have a hard time in this game as is. no need to make it even harder on them. ~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~ A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool
Siddy	Posted - 2004.02.24 12:43:00 - [19] Any one of u that hawe played Homeworld Caraclysm must remeber the Kuun-lan? It was a miner support Ship, able to carry hevy ordinance and lots of escort fighters. (droned in our case) as the game advansed it turned into something else - resembling more like a Battleship... but in early stage of game it was purely a miner ship That kind of thing i whuld like to see in EVE i know that Titans are coming soon(tm) but they are more like a Motherships out of Homeworld Kuun-lan were dedicated miner. A miner able to defend itself from destroyer clas ships (cruiser in our case) but culd not stand it own against Battlecruisers (Battleships in our case) and refine mined ore on plase This thing whuld be able to mine in remote parts of space and refine ore after what it culd be shipped away right off sight mining by hauling indys and it whuld be cheaper than Titan to get (abaut 200 milion only) Make a Dedicated Miner Indy -------------------------------------------------------- Minmatar Miner: 8 Hig slots ( 8 Turret slots 2 Missile slots ) 2 Medium slots 2 Low slot 1200 CPU 500 Powergrid Ship specks ----------------------------------------------------------- Mass: 500 Mega newton (yes.. one big fat bastard) Hull: 1500 Armor: 2000 Shields: 1250 Capasitor: 900 Maximum Speed: 66m/s Cargohold: 6000 Dronebay: 4250m3 Sensor strenght: 11 Laddar Scan resulution: (Same as BS's) Siganture radius: (wery high) Max locked targets: 5 Usual armor and Shield Base resistance Skill reqs ----------------------------------------------------- Minmatar Industrial lvl5 Space Ship comanser lvl5 Super capital ship operation Skill lvl1 (something that is comparing to Titan skill) Exstra features ----------------------------------------- Mobile refinery unit Skill req --------------------------- Refining lvl5 Mobile refining lvl1 Ship bonuses per super capital ship level ------------------------ 5% more efisient refining plant 5% more miner yeld well its my idea... i am hoples Homeworld fan.... so shoot me -------------------------------------------
Nathan Zachary	Posted - 2004.02.24 16:21:00 - [20] shoots siddy hey... why not add fac slots too? Build more drones on the fly, hey, and add crusier sized drones too! and of course we need a blaster too...
Trevedian	Posted - 2004.02.24 17:21:00 - [21] Quote: I am tired of seeing people using battleships as mining platforms. Is this really intended? I mean people own armageddons/apocolypses/megathrons/ect for the sole purpose of mining. I think we're missing a class of ship here, mining ships. Simular to industrials, perhaps a bit sturdier, and much better suited to mining. Mining lasers should be made so that they are easy to fit on mining ships but insanely difficult to place on battleships (make mining lasers use 200-300 CPU). These "I want to spent alot more time mining posts are getting tedious..." How often does Mo0 mine and where? I think whining about how people with Battleships mine ore too fast is just silly. Mining sucks! I can't stand mining in an Apoc w/ 8 miner 2's and 6 Harvestor drones. I don't see how I ever mined in a tormentor etc. and kept my sanity. So CCP save your precious time, you need't worry about creating a new ship class to quiet a few whiners... The funniest part of Dim Jim's post is the part about making mining lasers insanely difficult to place on battleships, (wtf) how would that get justified? Sex0r > you're bounty turns me on.. you seem like the kind of amarrian to dominate me
Cold Heart	Posted - 2004.02.24 18:29:00 - [22] Jim how can you possibly expect ppl to NOT mine in a Battleship in an 0.4 or lower sys, when your Corp go out of it way to target ppl in these system. The only kind of protection when solo mining in these systems is a Battleship. As for mining a 0.5 system or above, 9 Frigates can strip a belt in the time it take a Battleship to. The idea of a dedicated mining ship is a good idea though .
Cadman Weyland	Posted - 2004.02.24 19:06:00 - [23] Im a miner, a few corp members are pvps or dedicated ncps hunters. Im mulling over buying the BS skill, but its for mining not hunting. I reckon thats wrong. A mining class of ship id buy straight away, i dont really wanna fly a BS. Frigates and cruisers appeal more. Saying that the other poster had a point, mining in 0.4 and lower is difficult when the likes of Mr Raynors corp mates are hunting them does kinda ruin his argument. Director of Empire Ops and Chief Carebear
Deep Spacer	Posted - 2004.02.24 20:01:00 - [24] Edited by: Deep Spacer on 24/02/2004 20:02:23 i dunno if anyone said this already in this forum but i had an idea a while back that i was talking about in eve chat while mining in my armageddon... industrial ships all have massive CPU (my mammoth has like more then a BS). so why not make mining lasers variable depending on how much CPU u feed it? u got 700 CPU? then the miner sucks up like 350 units a minute (or sumthing) then u come to a problem here...with a bit of a fix when u give an indy a huge mining laser, people are gonna park it in a field and target an asteroid, then go read a book... solution: add a 10-20 minute time out in eve. u dont do anything for 15 minutes, all your modules deactivate, or worse, it dumps u from game entirely. the other idea is to make a mining ship with 2000 structure, 2000 armor, and 500 shields, with a slot config of 4 mining laser only slots, 4 med slots and 4 low slots. give it a 1000 cargo hold (or so) and a 5000 drone bay (or so). bonus's would be 5% mining laser yield and 5% drone yield per (race name) industrial lvl this would be a decent solo mining or group mining ship in any sec space. i would be glad to give up my armageddon for one of these, with the drones, and bonus's the mining yield wouldnt be 2 bad and i wouldnt be called a carebear miner (as much)... thoughts flames, whatever just a nice idea brought on by hours of mind numbing mining
Cao Cao	Posted - 2004.02.24 20:11:00 - [25] Quote: You're forgetting that for the dedicated mining ship to be a better option than the bs mining ship, it would need to have a drone bay of 1500m¦ to 2500m¦ and defences to match the bs, otherwise it will never replace the battleships. Protection is a major issue, even to miners. I agree. I'd say one mining ship per race per class. They should all have 1,500 drone bay small "frigate" mining vessels should have 2 mining HPs, medium "cruiser" ones 3 mining HPs, larger "battleship" ones should have 4 mining HP. All other ships should have ONE and ONLY ONE mining HP. The major difference would be the ships' defenses. You can even use the same friggin model as a current frig to make the specialized miners . . . just an altered hull or whatever. For example Gallente miners could have imicus hull, vexor hull, and maybe a new model for the "battleship" class mining ship. Or an altered dominix, whatever. The major difference between the smaller and larger versions of the mining ships should be the shield and hull/armor hit points, making them more suitable to low-sec mining operations. Basically right now its fking ricokculous the way things work, using battleships for mining, stupid IMHO.
Cao Cao	Posted - 2004.02.24 20:14:00 - [26] Quote: As for mining a 0.5 system or above, 9 Frigates can strip a belt in the time it take a Battleship to. (emphasis mine) Exactly. Nine DIFFERENT PEOPLE, you just proved the point of this entire thread.
Jayad	Posted - 2004.02.24 21:10:00 - [27] Yep, have very large mining ships about the price of a tier 1 BS, able to equip miners with large drone bay. THis would only be feasible if a miner slot was implemented. But its probably not going to happen :(
Nybbas	Posted - 2004.02.24 21:28:00 - [28] jim isnt complaining about BS miners, well he isnt complaining to them for doing and saying not to, he is pointing out the fact that a BS shouldnt be used for mining, its a disgrace, its not the players fault, i meant come on it is an easy decision if you are a miner, its the best out there for the job, he is saying something needs to be done to take battleships out of the roid belts and into the battlefields (unless of course the roid belt is the battlefield) i think a heavy duty mining ship, with 8 high slots or whatnot, with a rather large (low quality indy) cargo hold, would be great, give it skills that increase mining yield, and cargo capacity and whatnot, price it around 15 to 30 mil, seeing how a ship with 8 miner 2's and mining skills will strip a mine in a stupid amount of time, and faster than any BS would, give it good armor and shields, i mean it does cost 20 mil here, a nice sized drone bay, that could be used to mine AND defend, cuz 8 ogres is more than enough to defend from any belt pirates unless they are in medium groups of high level cruisers... anyways this ship would be more meant for group operations, it would have protection from maybe a battleship, and cruisers and whatnot. if you are afraid of it strapping on battleship guns or whatever, i dont think miners take up much powergrid, just nerf its powergrid, or find another way around that ya know?
Dudle	Posted - 2004.02.24 21:44:00 - [29] I agree with Jim here. EvE does need dedicated mining vessels. Currently I mine in an Apoc, I appreciate that is not what the ship was designed to do but as a professional miner what choice is there? If there were proper mining vessels, with decent enough defences ( drones ) I would gladly sell the Apoc. At least that way I would feel like a "Proper" miner. Battleships are exactly that, they are not minerships. It is just that the miners in EvE have no other choice.
Ronyo Dae'Loki	Posted - 2004.02.25 00:43:00 - [30] Quote: Edited by: Karsten on 24/02/2004 08:21:13 BTW: what ship below a BS can survive staying in a belt in 0.0 systems now? Actually it's quite the opposite. Ninja-mining (the most people-effective way to mine in 0.0) in a battleship is stupid. The huge ship can get stuck on asteroids, and losing your battleship while ninja-mining would be the ultimate humiliation. A fast cruiser is far batter suited to ninja-mining. ------------- My salsa makes all the pretty girls want to dance and take off their underpants. I <3 ( . Y . )

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