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Cobalt Digger	Posted - 2004.02.25 04:34:00 - [31] I too would like to see a mining ship for each race a Gallante drone mining one would be cool just say 2000 cargo and a drone bay of 1500 with a 5% bonus to drone mining +1 extra drone per mining indy skill and 1 Hi-slot (non missile or turret) ie you could mine with 15 harvies ---------
Roko	Posted - 2004.02.25 04:40:00 - [32] Edited by: Roko on 25/02/2004 05:06:04 Edited by: Roko on 25/02/2004 05:02:11 I agree that Eve needs a ship like this. Cruiser sized 15-20M ISK 8 high turret hard points 2 med 2 low 800 CPU 50-80 MW 2000 Cargo 1000 Drone Bay 100m/s (Minmatar one could go 300m/s.....j/k) Skills: Minmatar Industrial Level 4 Mining Level 5 Optional: 1)-4 charisma while piloting (miners often get dirty while dealing with minerals/ore) 2)+5% mining yield per level of industrial (they get dirty but they're still good at mining) 3)+5% standing gain when they do a fly-by of any corp stations that have "mining" in the title (it would be slow, I agree....and if you tried to do 2 fly-by's the station guns would open up on you) 4)whenever you pressed "open cargo" your ship would transform into a nigh-invulnerable chunk of ice, your eve client would start playing "no more Mr. nice guy" by Alice Cooper, as you started shooting out frozen orb's ala Diablo 2...this would only be for a short time, afterwards you could continue mining. ....it's late, I need to sleep..... ------------------------ croc-o bananes
Lansfear	Posted - 2004.02.25 06:34:00 - [33] I think everyone is just stuck on the name Battleship. Just think of them as multi-purpose vessals.
Slithereen	Posted - 2004.02.25 07:24:00 - [34] Siddy, If you bring the Kun-Laan to EVE, the sheer equivalent to it is a Titan, or even a Super Titan. The Hiigaran Mothership would be the equivalent of an Amarr station that could fly on its own power. I was thinking more like the original Resourcers in Homeworld 1, which is also similar to the Miners in Allegiance. Both are very similar in construction, tough, truck like ships with mining equipment. I think the equivalent would be an Indy in EVE mounting multiple mining lasers. As of now, this kind of dedicated miner would be the easiest to implement in EVE. Right now in the horizon, we're looking at a new class of Elite Frigate called the Deep Core Miners. These are based on mining frigate hulls like the Imicus, Probe, Bantam and Tormentor. The Deep Core Miners are but one of the new classes of Elite Frigs that include the Interceptors (released), Bombers, Special Ops ships and Gunships. What astonishing about EVE is this is the only game I know where miners are not an automated, NPC ship. In Allegiance for example, miners are now flown by anyone like with the other ships, but are only controlled by the team commander. In Darkspace, miners are also automated ships, you concentrate on the fighting, and let the miners do their tasks in an automated fashion. Another concept I like from Homeworld would be the Mobile Refinery. This is another class of industrial that not only processes ore, but also heals ships. A "healing" ship is something I noticed that EVE does not have, although it exists with Allegiance and Homeworld (though HW2 no longer has it too). Imagine a module called "Remote Hull Repairer" and a "Remote Armor Repairer". Basically you lock on to a teammate, activate the repairers like weapons (all high slot) and build back your teammate's ship. This could give new meaning to the concept of logistical support as well as teamwork. _______________________________________________ "Is it me or the bad guys just getting totally pathetic?"---Clover, Totally Spies, "Hope is wasted on the Hopeless."---Mandy, The Grim Adventures of Billy and Mandy. "Stars are holes in the sky from which the light of the Infinite shine through."---Confucius.
Imperishable	Posted - 2004.02.25 08:19:00 - [35] Let's face the reality - there is no room for dedicated mining ships as long as BS can equip mining lasers.
Shadowsword	Posted - 2004.02.25 08:47:00 - [36] I like a lot the idea of dedicaced mining ships. I think an elite version of current industrials wouldn't be hard to add to the game, for example an Iteron with slightly improved shields/armor, small drone space and 6 turret hardpoints. It would be nearly useless in low security systems, unless protected, but very usefull in empire space. Of course, current Battleships could mine better, and do it in low sec systems, but it would be still be usefull for small corps, who can't always divert a BS to mine when fighting another corp.
slothe	Posted - 2004.02.25 09:15:00 - [37] tho i generally agree with your posts i dont agree with this. let people mine in what they want. some ships do seem to be primarily suited for mining eg dominix, vexor etc. and some dont eg caldari. maybe you just ran out of other topics to post about Say hello on our forum @www.aserea.com or join our public channel ingame "MLM Public" http://www.khainestar.com/eve
John McCreedy	Posted - 2004.02.25 09:21:00 - [38] Quote: The CPU option sounds viable. One might also consider having Mining Laser hardpoints, but this would require a rebalancing of all cruisers and frigates and is thus probably not a good idea. Why? Simply create a Mining turret HP exclusive to mining ships and change the stats on mining lasers so they can only be fitted to this slot. Make a difference
vixit	Posted - 2004.02.25 09:30:00 - [39] What about a low slot module which gives you a mining hardpoint. So ship has default 0ne mining hardpoint and you can add points by putting more modules on your vessel, or even a medium module which gives two mining hardpoints. Just a small idea. CU in EvE and have fun.
Karsten	Posted - 2004.02.25 11:21:00 - [40] Quote: Quote: Edited by: Karsten on 24/02/2004 08:21:13 BTW: what ship below a BS can survive staying in a belt in 0.0 systems now? Actually it's quite the opposite. Ninja-mining (the most people-effective way to mine in 0.0) in a battleship is stupid. The huge ship can get stuck on asteroids, and losing your battleship while ninja-mining would be the ultimate humiliation. A fast cruiser is far batter suited to ninja-mining. If u are stupid enough to go close to the roids yes. Only a stupid captain sends his ship there in a dead end. A fast Crusier has not much cargo left... Karsten "All your ISK belong to the Viking Brewery"
Cadman Weyland	Posted - 2004.02.25 11:28:00 - [41] I gotta disagree with u Slo. I think if u asked around most folk would prefer to see mining vessels and not just Battleships. U dont go fishing in a frigate, u do it in a trawler, so why should eve be any different. Director of Empire Ops and Chief Carebear
Cirle	Posted - 2004.02.25 11:37:00 - [42] Quote: Jim how can you possibly expect ppl to NOT mine in a Battleship in an 0.4 or lower sys, when your Corp go out of it way to target ppl in these system. The only kind of protection when solo mining in these systems is a Battleship. As for mining a 0.5 system or above, 9 Frigates can strip a belt in the time it take a Battleship to. The idea of a dedicated mining ship is a good idea though . Mmmmmm... Catfish... :) Cirle
Mad Miner2	Posted - 2004.02.25 11:44:00 - [43] Edited by: Mad Miner2 on 25/02/2004 11:46:19 Quote: Any one of u that hawe played Homeworld Caraclysm must remeber the Kuun-lan? It was a miner support Ship, able to carry hevy ordinance and lots of escort fighters. (droned in our case) as the game advansed it turned into something else - resembling more like a Battleship... but in early stage of game it was purely a miner ship That kind of thing i whuld like to see in EVE i know that Titans are coming soon(tm) but they are more like a Motherships out of Homeworld Kuun-lan were dedicated miner. A miner able to defend itself from destroyer clas ships (cruiser in our case) but culd not stand it own against Battlecruisers (Battleships in our case) and refine mined ore on plase This thing whuld be able to mine in remote parts of space and refine ore after what it culd be shipped away right off sight mining by hauling indys and it whuld be cheaper than Titan to get (abaut 200 milion only) Make a Dedicated Miner Indy -------------------------------------------------------- Minmatar Miner: 8 Hig slots ( 8 Turret slots 2 Missile slots ) 2 Medium slots 2 Low slot 1200 CPU 500 Powergrid Ship specks ----------------------------------------------------------- Mass: 500 Mega newton (yes.. one big fat bastard) Hull: 1500 Armor: 2000 Shields: 1250 Capasitor: 900 Maximum Speed: 66m/s Cargohold: 6000 Dronebay: 4250m3 Sensor strenght: 11 Laddar Scan resulution: (Same as BS's) Siganture radius: (wery high) Max locked targets: 5 Usual armor and Shield Base resistance Skill reqs ----------------------------------------------------- Minmatar Industrial lvl5 Space Ship comanser lvl5 Super capital ship operation Skill lvl1 (something that is comparing to Titan skill) Exstra features ----------------------------------------- Mobile refinery unit Skill req --------------------------- Refining lvl5 Mobile refining lvl1 Ship bonuses per super capital ship level ------------------------ 5% more efisient refining plant 5% more miner yeld well its my idea... i am hoples Homeworld fan.... so shoot me bang anyway i think this ship can compeet to BS miners due to good protektion and large drone bay! and if u can refine ore on sight, u can turn this miner into a minig base in deep space operations! i realy like this idea
Randuin MaraL	Posted - 2004.02.25 12:05:00 - [44] As far as I know there exist plans for dedicated miners and repair drones - "If" and "when" they be available? ... Soon(TM) ____________________________________________________ Never be in the company of anyone with whom you would not want to die. MEDUSA veteran, Khumaak Award winner
Aerfen	Posted - 2004.02.25 13:35:00 - [45] Alot of npc indies have multiple turret hard points, 3 from the looks of it. So the model is already in game, it just seems a matter of making it available to players to use. The only downside with that is that you could easily afk mine which CCP never seems too keen on.
Gariuys	Posted - 2004.02.25 14:10:00 - [46] Quote: I agree with Jim here. EvE does need dedicated mining vessels. Currently I mine in an Apoc, I appreciate that is not what the ship was designed to do but as a professional miner what choice is there? If there were proper mining vessels, with decent enough defences ( drones ) I would gladly sell the Apoc. At least that way I would feel like a "Proper" miner. Battleships are exactly that, they are not minerships. It is just that the miners in EvE have no other choice. Who exactly said that Battleships where not ment to be the best miners in the world of EVE? did i miss a dev chat or something? Be happy ships that take ages to train for can surve multiple roles. ~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~ A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool
fras	Posted - 2004.02.25 14:30:00 - [47] It's a nice idea and one I would like to see, but a ship like that would be open to exploit and tbh, 'Battleship' is just a word, there's no reason why it shouldn't be configurable according to your needs. Imo there are more important things to be worked on. I'd much rather see a class of ship that slots between cruiser and battleship than a dedicated miner type ship. Not to mention features and bugs that need adding and fixing.
Jim Raynor	Posted - 2004.02.25 14:35:00 - [48] Guys I think you are all missing the point. What I am saying is that there should be very specialized ships with huge CPU output and fairly simular to industrials except with more turret hard points and very low powergrids. Mining Lasers should be a gigantic amount of CPU, and only be realisticly capable of being fit on specialized mining ships, make it neigh impossible for an Apocalypse or any other battleship to fit more than 2-3 mining lasers, due to the huge CPU fitting requirements. Why? Battleships aren't for mining, every race should have mining ships, and they should be fairly equal. I think the current system of 'train amarr bship for mining' is stupid. Every ship has industrials which are fairly equal in regards to training time put in, why not the same for mining ships as well? Obviously no one trains Minmatar or Caldari for mining, because they don't have as many turrets. Why not have mining be done by ships specifically designed for it instead of battleships, which in my opinion, should be used for strictly combat purposes. Battleships should be guarding miners, not mining themselves. ------ ROBBLE ROBBLE
Gariuys	Posted - 2004.02.25 15:02:00 - [49] Quote: :snip: Every ship has industrials which are fairly equal in regards to training time put in, why not the same for mining ships as well?:snip: Do you even look at the stats of those things, or are you just cranky again about your lvl 5 caldari BS skill not allowing you too mine like someone with lvl 2 amarr BS skill? ~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~ A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool
Jim Raynor	Posted - 2004.02.25 15:08:00 - [50] Edited by: Jim Raynor on 25/02/2004 15:10:08 Quote: Quote: :snip: Every ship has industrials which are fairly equal in regards to training time put in, why not the same for mining ships as well?:snip: Do you even look at the stats of those things, or are you just cranky again about your lvl 5 caldari BS skill not allowing you too mine like someone with lvl 2 amarr BS skill? Thank you for ASSumptions but I already have an Apocalypse alt on a second account loaded with 8 Miner IIs and max refining/mining/astrogeology/ect and an character capable of flying an Iteron MK5. So no, what I am suggesting is a fairly unbiased opinion on the current state of how people collect ore in this game and I feel that mining should be the job of mining ships and not battleships. Industrials are fairly balanced now considering the time invested to train for them. Only the iteron mk5 is clearly superior to all other industrials but hey look at the requirements for that sucker.. Sorry to burst you bubble but this has nothing to do with what ship I use for PVP. ------ ROBBLE ROBBLE
Gariuys	Posted - 2004.02.25 15:17:00 - [51] Quote: Edited by: Jim Raynor on 25/02/2004 15:10:08 Quote: Quote: :snip: Every ship has industrials which are fairly equal in regards to training time put in, why not the same for mining ships as well?:snip: Do you even look at the stats of those things, or are you just cranky again about your lvl 5 caldari BS skill not allowing you too mine like someone with lvl 2 amarr BS skill? Thank you for ASSumptions but I already have an Apocalypse alt on a second account loaded with 8 Miner IIs and max refining/mining/astrogeology/ect and an character capable of flying an Iteron MK5. So no, what I am suggesting is a fairly unbiased opinion on the current state of how people collect ore in this game and I feel that mining should be the job of mining ships and not battleships. Industrials are fairly balanced now considering the time invested to train for them. Only the iteron mk5 is clearly superior to all other industrials but hey look at the requirements for that sucker.. Sorry to burst you bubble but this has nothing to do with what ship I use for PVP. How can you say this without bursting out into laughter, at lvl 1 amarr indies are clear cut the best, at lvl4 the minmatar indy rules all at lvl 5 suddenly the iteron becomes the only option, exactly how is this equality among races. And how exactly does the above situation inspire you to come up with dedicated mining platforms that need yet again even more protection then current BS miners. Not everyone wants to dedicate a fleet to pull in some jaspet. ~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~ A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool
Jim Raynor	Posted - 2004.02.25 15:22:00 - [52] Quote: How can you say this without bursting out into laughter, at lvl 1 amarr indies are clear cut the best, at lvl4 the minmatar indy rules all at lvl 5 suddenly the iteron becomes the only option, exactly how is this equality among races. And how exactly does the above situation inspire you to come up with dedicated mining platforms that need yet again even more protection then current BS miners. Not everyone wants to dedicate a fleet to pull in some jaspet. Because each race now has a functional industrial ship IMO. Before the Badger MK2 for example, was a complete joke, the thing held like 4k cargo max, with the proper skill and cargo expanders, you can easily get 12k+ cargo space, which is a huge improvement and not too bad for an industrial you only need rank 3 for. No the industrials arent perfectly balanced but atleast now each race has a viable option. As for mining ships, why not? Why should battleships be the only viable mining platforms in this game? Shouldnt battleships be for combat and protecting miners? Oh god forbid you not be able to mine ark solo, so sorry. I forgot this is a single player game and not a MMO game, err wait.. ------ ROBBLE ROBBLE
Gariuys	Posted - 2004.02.25 15:31:00 - [53] Ark solo, should be seriously impossible IMHO. Was talking about jaspet, 0.2 empire, cause that's all that's there, anything but a BS will die there with a mining setup getting jumped by 3 serpentis cruisers that web scramble and own is quite likely, that's not a situation that you should risk losing your ship for. And making a mining ship with exactly the same tanking ability as a BS the same drone bay, the same amount of lasers, is just giving the damn thing another name, utterly pointless. ~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~ A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool
Mikelangelo	Posted - 2004.02.25 16:05:00 - [54] Battleships, and ships in general are just HULLS. They are hulls to be optimized for whatever purpose their owner decides. Why take away that freedom? The plug-in module system of Eve is perfect for player customizations. What good is a battleship or a cruiser without modules? Absolutely nothing but maybe some short range travel. Think of battleships as basic hulls, that when properly configured and equipped with the right modules, are adaptable to a variety of roles (mining, jamming, tanking, missile bombardment, gunboat, whatever). Hell, I know people who configure their battleship for fast cargo hauling from dangerous areas. If you're gonna argue that we need X ship class for X purpose, why not make a different battleship class for tanking, damage dealing, short range assault, jamming, missile support etc? (yeah ok, so some existing battleships are more suited to those roles than others, but you can still set them up for other purposes). Making ships for each and every role would be a little bit silly, not to mention a LOT of unnecessary work on CCP's part. Customization of battleships with modules for mining is NO different than a Scorpion being set up for EW/ganking one day, and for tanking the next day. Allow the players their choices, don't force them to buy silly specialized ships. Don't forget that the basic structure of, for instance, liberty ships in world war II, was used as a transport ship, escort carrier, minelayer and amphibious support ships. MODULAR systems will always win out over specialized ships, in terms of ease of production, cost, and flexibility, and adaptability for multiple purposes.
Ruby LeFonte	Posted - 2004.02.25 19:54:00 - [55] Put a decent dedicated miner ship in with fair amount of turrets and I'll take it. But I think CCP would actually have to disallow mining lasers on BS's before people will go over. A trend is set that is hard to break. Just because we are paranoid, doesn't mean you're not out to get us.
JackDonkey	Posted - 2004.02.25 20:16:00 - [56] whooooooooooooo cares!!!
Grissom	Posted - 2004.02.25 20:42:00 - [57] If mining laser's should only fit on specilised mining ships then how are noob's gonna mine ? _______________________ [URL=http://www.imageshack.us][/URL]
Layne Taro	Posted - 2004.02.25 20:48:00 - [58] I whole heartedly agree that there should be ships specifically for mining. I don't agree that it should be balanced out with CPU though. My preference would be creating a new type of hardpoint, that way you don't have to mess around with balancing CPU of ships and/or miners etc, that would create too many headaches. I just think it's kind of silly that these behemoths that are supposed to be equipped to the nuts with weapons and the like, instead are often used for mining because they can equip so many. It's the equivalent of a Battleship (the ocean plying kind) being used to drill for oil or gas. It's ridiculous, they have ships that are designed specifically for that. Each race should have one or two miners per class. They don't have to necessarily be equal, some races may be better at it than others. Some ships could have bonus's to cargo hold, or miner output etc. And these ships should NOT have much larger cargo space than they already have. If you give them a comparable amount of cargo space, as compared to a entry level indy, it will put things out of whack. The most important part of any MMORPG, IMO, is forced or at least strongly encouraged interdependence. Mining ops in low sec space should take a few escorts, a few miners, and maybe one or two haulers (at least, to mine efficiently). Allowing a new miner class to also be able to haul a significant amount of ore would basically make Indy's useless for helping out with mining ops, IMO.
Layne Taro	Posted - 2004.02.25 20:50:00 - [59] To answer the previous poster, there would be entry level frigates that could be used for miners and relatively cheap. Otherwise known as Bantams/insert racial ship here. And I don't think that regular combat ships should be barred from mounting any kind of miners whatsoever, just more limited. One miner on frigates, two on cruisers, three on BS. Or something like that.
Lysender	Posted - 2004.02.26 01:55:00 - [60] I wouldn't mind seeing a 8 mining laser ship with a large cargo hold and some decent armor/shields. But wait! Titans will be out in a year or two.

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