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Ishkur
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Posted - 2004.02.25 01:32:00 -
[31]
Well, first of all, self destructing should destroy your cargo. I'd like the ability to self-destruct my drone bay separately, frankly. The whole idea of self destructing is to give the big finger to the pirate who is shooing you (and please don't yammer on about alliances -- they are no better than the average pirate).
That said, I think EVE should implement some insurance ratings. Basically, just like RL insurance, if you are particularly "accident prone" you should pay a higher % for your ship's insurance. If you are not, you should pay a very low premium.
For example, I'm about to renew the insurance on my Thorax now for the third time. Which is annoying, because at that rate, I could have bought another Thorax right out.
This is tantamount to a person who owns a $40,000 BMW paying %$15,000 a month for insurance. It is absurd, especially if you never get into an accident!
So I'd set it so that all people start off with a 0.0 Insurance rating. Every time you renew your insurance without incident, you gain 2 points, and 10 would be the maximum. At level 10, your insurance rate would be extremely low (i.e., about 1/2 the "Basic" price for full insurance).
At a -10.0 your insurance would be hideously expensive (about 4x the "Premium" price for Premium insurance).
Yes, that means basically if you have -10.0 Insurance you might as well not bother.
And while we're on this topic, can I suggest that CCP make insurance like factories? Have SCC send us a bill when it is about to expire and let us renew it from our "Bills" interface in the wallet? It sucks that you get no notice whatsoever that your insurance is about to run out!
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Triniton
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Posted - 2004.02.25 02:24:00 -
[32]
ok lets say self-destructing would kill all your modules BUT NO WAY IN HELL IT SHOULD GIVE U YOUR INSURANCE TO mmkey.. 
Just plain stupid. How about when we loose our ships, we all get new ones with exact same modules and stuff and go frag each other in the yulai map, sounds great right?
ZOMBIE PRUNES! |
Carmen Electra
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Posted - 2004.02.25 03:08:00 -
[33]
 Quote:
In real life theft is also punishable by jail or fine. Yet, in EvE it is fully acceptable and not sanctionable. Thus comparisons with real life dont always go up.
LOL, but IRL, insta-warp bookmarks would work ...so why don't you bring it up in that argument.
^2
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Leitari
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Posted - 2004.02.25 03:23:00 -
[34]
What needs to be done is:
Disable insurance payout if a ship SELF destructs. (makes no sense why this is possible)
Limit the free insurance to an age of a player (3 months? or more?) I dont want this free insurance.
rethink this damned plan 50 times over before implementing it coz its not that well thought out.
Here, Only the silent survive.
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Imperishable
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Posted - 2004.02.25 04:35:00 -
[35]
The point of self destruct is to prevent people from getting loot, right? But there's got to be a disadvantage, something better than "I'm a noob so I didn't know, but now I do"
Either put a 1 minute delay timer on it or make insurance void.
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Doppleganger
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Posted - 2004.02.25 05:18:00 -
[36]
Edited by: Doppleganger on 25/02/2004 05:22:13
Quote:
The point of self destruct is to prevent people from getting loot, right? But there's got to be a disadvantage, something better than "I'm a noob so I didn't know, but now I do"
Already a disadvantage since even the isk from platinum insurance doesn't pay for ship & mods & cargo in most cases.
Quote:
Either put a 1 minute delay timer on it or make insurance void.
1 min delay... too long, the way game mechanics are now ppl can log out and log in an alt in less than 1 min and their ship is gone and saved so we would probably see a rise in that if a 1 min delay was added.
I do agree with making the insurance void and think that would be the best alternative.
edit: messed up spelling of quote
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Nyrram
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Posted - 2004.02.25 05:57:00 -
[37]
As for insurance payout, I suppose it would be logical to eliminate or reduce payout on a self-destruct.. there could even be an extra insurance option that costs a lot extra that covers self-destruct..
As for modules/cargo dropping after a self destruct, no.. absolutely not. The point of self-destructing in a bad situation is identical to the point of scuttling a ship that you don't want to fall into enemy hands.. in fact, the example earlier about the wild seas outside of Cuba was right on the money.. you self-destruct BECAUSE you don't want the enemy to profit from your destruction... it's like giving your foe the finger right before you die...
Of course, if you reduce or elminate insurance payout for self-destruct, then the penalty would probably curb this from happening as much, except for indies of course.. they are basically disposable... pple won't be self-destructing alot of bships though if they can't get insurance payout on them.. thumbing your nose at your enemy isn't quite worth that much.. or is it?
Personally, I will never employ this tactic, unless they use equally lame tactics, such as a mass login gang... if a person can honorably outwit/outplay me and destroy my ship, then I believe they deserve my cargo, or what survives of it..
--
Nyrram |
Busko Moonwalker
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Posted - 2004.02.25 07:47:00 -
[38]
Well the self destruct is for the option when you DONT want the pirats to get the CARGO and MODULS etc.
Also EVE is not RL becuse if you start on that road then you will never end.
You could say 100 stuff that happens in RL but not EVE or the other way around 
The insurance company said in a statment that they like it more when Pilots self destruct then stuff the pirats pockets with isk. And thats why they will contiue to pay out isk to the pilots. 
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Kathira
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Posted - 2004.02.25 08:11:00 -
[39]
I see ppl say here something about RL Insurance ... . Forget it.
I have never seen a RL insurance whith conditions like these .. Pay 30 % of the price for your car for a short term. So I see it the following: I secure my ship cause the Insurance will pay me money ( or give me a similar ship back ) when my ship is destroyed. Thats it.
Maybe self destruct is lame. But it happens in outer space where nobody will have notice of.
I see ppl. write that the Insurance should have had informations about self destruct or not. But ... do you play this game? ... You see on one side of a gate an ARMADA of Concord ... and on the other side one single lame game camper. So this gate camper can do it for hours whithout beeing noticed by this ARMADA? I think when the concord cant notice about gate campers or pirates in the next system how should an Insurance get notice of a self destruct ship in this system?
For me its simple I pay a very high price for a very short time so when my ship is gone in any way I get my money back ... .
Self destruction in space is a technik to provide others to gain something so its more than ok that there is no loot.
Yeah and that 1 Minute time. Sorry but then you mostly can forget that self destruction in all ships except maybe that the BSs. You knock it. Then youre ejected. Then it makes boom. Thats it.
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zincol
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Posted - 2004.02.25 09:45:00 -
[40]
Self Destruct shouldnt Pay out insurance.
or
Items should be in da can ;-)
w00t!
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Aelius
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Posted - 2004.02.25 10:30:00 -
[41]
1st- Self Destruct SHOULD NOT be payed by insurance unless you pay considerably extra (insurance) to do it (like cars full insurance)
2nd- Self Destruct would create a powerfull blast incinerating everything in X(ship class)kms radious doing X(ship class)damage
3rd- Self Destruct means NO loot
4th- Characters with MORE than 2 month time COULD NOT have free insurance
I think this will make everyone happy because pirates will have loot (not everyone can afford to full insure their ship) and people who want can pay for it.
Selling Raven BPC ME20 3M at Yulai 1st Station |
Aelius
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Posted - 2004.02.25 10:31:00 -
[42]
1st- Self Destruct SHOULD NOT be payed by insurance unless you pay considerably extra (insurance) to do it (like cars full insurance)
2nd- Self Destruct would create a powerfull blast incinerating everything in X(ship class)kms radious doing X(ship class)damage
3rd- Self Destruct means NO loot
4th- Characters with MORE than 2 month time COULD NOT have free insurance
I think this will make everyone happy because pirates will have loot (not everyone can afford to full insure their ship) and people who want can pay for it.
Selling Raven BPC ME20 3M at Yulai 1st Station |
Aelius
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Posted - 2004.02.25 10:33:00 -
[43]
Ups... Sorry about the double post guys.
Selling Raven BPC ME20 3M at Yulai 1st Station |
Kathira
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Posted - 2004.02.25 11:31:00 -
[44]
Btw. can pirates can have an Insurance for their ship? If the answer is jes then why?
When ppl. who start a fight get the money back after loosing that fight its the same as selfdestroying the ship.
And whats about war ... should the Insurance sleep during wars between corpses?
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Busko Moonwalker
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Posted - 2004.02.25 12:34:00 -
[45]
Longer insurance that is one the line now should make more peeps take part in PvP games.
Still even if u pay the best incurance you will not get what your ship is worth + all the modules u have on it.
Like the ide with blas that kills other stuff next to it when u self destruct.
Also that no Loot is left ( THATS why u self destruct in the first place not to give anything to the enemy)
Its like saying everone with - sec rating should not be able to use incurance coz they are bad killing and plundering :D
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Alien8
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Posted - 2004.02.25 12:59:00 -
[46]
I aggree with those ideas :
1. S-D should not pay out insurance.
2. Blast would destroy ship and harm surrounding ships (makes for a nice last attempt at killing your opponent).
3. Loot can should not drop.
4. Older than 2-3 month characters should not get free insurance, if someone is actually flying a BS he must be able to insure it (more so now that insurance is going to be 6 weeks long).
Seems to me most of the ppl putting their cents into this discussion could agree on the above points. 
As for pirates not getting insured  there will always be dodgy insurance companies like most other companies, may let it cost more for pirates to insure ???
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Jarjar
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Posted - 2004.02.25 13:08:00 -
[47]
I also agree to those points.
That people are self-destructing because they gain money is stupid, you shouldn't GAIN money to self-destruct over getting killed.
1) No insurance payout when you destroy your own ship - why would they pay you for that?
2) No loot dropped - doesn't matter since people won't self destuct battleships without insurance payout, unless they have REALLY REALLY good modules they don't want the enemy to have.
Btw, if you want people with low secrating (aka. pirates? Wrong!) should pay more for insurance - this is absurd. 4 times the regular money if you have a -10 secrating?!
Do you honestly want them to pay 120M for the insurance and get a 110M payout? 
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Alien8
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Posted - 2004.02.25 17:03:00 -
[48]
Edited by: Alien8 on 25/02/2004 17:05:00
I would like to add here the question that was brought up in the CSM chat today and the answers from the devs here for further discussion.
Quote:
MOOstradamus > Q: <Carda> Please elaborate on your thinking with regards to Ship Insurance and the recent Chaos patch tweaks (and potential Implant & Module cover too) ... Are you purposefully trying to lessen, even further, the penalty of death ?? Why does Insurance still payout on 'Self-Destructs' ?? Why a 12 week term ?? Why isn't char SEC status and loss history, type & frequency taken into account for pricing yet ??
Good question 
Quote:
TomB > We are decreasing the cost for players not dying, and also lessening the cost for players that are new to the game.
Players won't need to keep track of payments as often, and if they do forget,
How about when the insurance runs out a small popup appears giving you the option of renewing the insurance. That would solve all problems of insurance running out at bad moments.
Quote:
the cost won't be as dramatic as it can be. There were examples of players loosing ~10 frigates simply trying to finish a level 2 agent mission, and also many players in their big battleships have lost them because their time exceeded the insurance payment time by only a few minutes. Currently it's just a hot-fix, a better insurance system will perhabs be build later.
TomB > These sure are special cases, but they do fill up the customer service office with petitions.
I myself have lost 3 ships which were uninsured and 2 of them (apoc and scorp) in a span of 3 days when i recently started playing EvE again so i do understand the situation. But i didnŠt go petitioning it because i knew, as it was, that insuring my ship was my own responsibility and i had noone to blame but myself.
Quote:
* MOOstradamus thinks that maybe the discussion can occur on the boards after the LOG is posted - End.
Decreasing cost of insurance ??
Lessening cost for players that are new to the game.??
No answer to the self destruction part of the Question.
You can do better than this TomB
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Latinum Smith
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Posted - 2004.02.25 23:00:00 -
[49]
I have read all three pages about the insurance and self destructing.
Heres my idea and how it will work for the current system.
Why not have insurance handed out by individual corporations. That way if you have a high standing then that corporation will charge less for the same cover than another corporation with a lower standing. This will then cover the following situations.
1) Self destructing will stil pay out as most corps will not want others making a profit from a destroyed ship. Self destrusting hurts the enemy as it were.
2) Self destructing destroys everthing. Thats the whole point of it.
3) You get free insurance is you remain in the noob corporations. If you join another corp then that corp should look after you. I know some experianced players stay in the noob corps but they miss out on stuff and at the moment everyone gets it anyway. If you want it that badly stay with the beginners.
4) Pirate with good standings with the pirate corps can still get cheap insurance, and will tend to have to pay big figures with empire corps.
5) Corporations will still pay out in a war if the attacker is hostile to the players insured corp. Otherwise it wont. This would be easily done as it states in the log who destroyed you.
6) You get no pay out if you are destroyed by concord. If concord destroyed you then you have really been a bad boy/girl.
Just my ideas as how it would explain some of the payouts, why pirates get it, how to get discount, and why self destruct is so important.
Now this wont happen in the game, but a man can dream, can't he?
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Prodigious
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Posted - 2004.02.25 23:40:00 -
[50]
Quote:
Well...this post has been a while coming but here it is.
The thing is, EvE is starting to get more and more irrational every day,
ppl can at this moment self destruct their ships, claim insurance and
walk away from any confrontation they are likely to encounter in the game.
When somone destructs his own property (by fire or other means) and then claims
insurance this would in real life be deemed insurance fraud and punishable by jail or fine.
So i find it quite irrational that ppl in EvE can insure their ships, self destruct them and
walk away with the money in an act that in any rational society would be deemed criminal.
Another point on this, when ppl self destruct their ships, nothing of the ship drops into a
container, save for the drones from the drone bay, this also is very ill thought out and
should be remedied asap.
How is self destruction in any way different from getting blown up so that this difference
is ratified ? And to further that point, what is the reson self-destruct is even in the game?
Ppl should of course be able to eject, but who in his right head would self destruct his own ship ?
And this new thing which has already made Tranquility at this time, free basic insurance for
ppl and under the pretext tha it is for the newbies in the game ???
... Man i wish i could get free insurance for my car, since this is my first car and i just
turned 17 (being in the highest RISK category).
This again would cause any insurance company to go bankrupt.
Plz : rethink and remedy those points, you are already making this game as dull as
playing Tetris online and it aint getting better.
please, stfu there are bigger issues that have to be dealt with, which i wont go into. besides, people get away with insurance fraud in RL; if they didnt, there wouldnt be insurance fraud  (like my deductive skillz? knew u would.)
what do u want em to do? send an NPC insurance investigator to investigate your oh so very unorthodox act of cheating in EVE?
**imho**, u should find something better to do with your free time. like me.
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Saladin
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Posted - 2004.02.25 23:53:00 -
[51]
Quote:
If self-destructing gets a penalty, then so should clone-jumping.
No, the two are seperate issues.
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(c) Copyright Saladin, 2005.
Any editing of this post by a third party will be in violation United States Internet Copyright law 46525 of 2003. |
Alien8
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Posted - 2004.02.26 00:15:00 -
[52]
Quote:
please, stfu there are bigger issues that have to be dealt with, which i wont go into. besides, people get away with insurance fraud in RL; if they didnt, there wouldnt be insurance fraud (like my deductive skillz? knew u would.)
what do u want em to do? send an NPC insurance investigator to investigate your oh so very unorthodox act of cheating in EVE?
**imho**, u should find something better to do with your free time. like me.
I would like to take this forum space to thank Prodigious for his contribution to this discussion.
You are obviously a mature and well spoken gentleman and i take my hat off to you.
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Prodigious
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Posted - 2004.02.26 05:05:00 -
[53]
Quote:
Quote:
please, stfu there are bigger issues that have to be dealt with, which i wont go into. besides, people get away with insurance fraud in RL; if they didnt, there wouldnt be insurance fraud (like my deductive skillz? knew u would.)
what do u want em to do? send an NPC insurance investigator to investigate your oh so very unorthodox act of cheating in EVE?
**imho**, u should find something better to do with your free time. like me.
I would like to take this forum space to thank Prodigious for his contribution to this discussion.
You are obviously a mature and well spoken gentleman and i take my hat off to you.
u know it. im too cool for words
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Jash Illian
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Posted - 2004.02.26 06:58:00 -
[54]
If you find giving a pirate the finger to be so important, then it should at the price of your ship with no insurance. Your ego and pride are obviously big enough to shoulder the price of the insurance.
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
DREAMWORKS
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Posted - 2004.02.26 09:23:00 -
[55]
Selfdestruct of ship and modules = stay in.
Insurance = out.
Luckily there is no ensurance for modules etc.
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http://www.nin.com/visuals/thtf_hi.html |
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