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Menkaure Amarr Vanitas Corp.	Posted - 2007.10.21 17:24:00 - [1] My GOD. Can we not succeed at anything conclusively? Why does it ALWAYS come down to the last match, the last race, or whatever.... Just watching Hamilton, the poor kid. This after losing against Russia, although the RWC was a pleasent surprise. British sportsmen are ALWAYS down to the wire, on everything we ever do. My heart can't take it anymore...
benzss The Increment Retribution.	Posted - 2007.10.21 17:31:00 - [2] lol, we compete in so many sports it's nice even to get the chance to succeed in all of them. And I doubt other countries' experiences are less heart-stopping ;)
Ulendar M34t p0p s1ckle Manufacturing Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.21 18:02:00 - [3] Well Menkaure, us germans aren't much better off tbh, or let's say, at least not in the sports I care for. Winning a F1 title is out of reach since Schumacher retired, and while we have a decent football team, I doubt they are good enough to win a big tournament in the foreseeable future. Don't even get me started about ice hockey .. that about does it. I hear we're pretty good at other sports, handball and the likes, but I really don't care for those so .. >_> __________
Luthair StoneDog Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2007.10.21 18:26:00 - [4] I kinda, sorta feel for you. A tiny bit... I'm a Scot, and was naturally cheering for South Africa.. but that try you almost got. Wow, I can see how heartbreaking that would be. (His toe was definately on the line though) The reason I can empathize so well is.. well, Scottish football! I can't believe that we beat France (finalists in the last world cup), TWICE, we defeated the Ukraine (quarter finalists in the last world cup) we have held our spot as number 1 in our qualifying group for the best part of a year... and then we go to bloody Georgia and get cuffed 2-0!! Now it's, as you said, down to the wire. We have got to beat Italy (winners of the last world cup) in our last match. No pressure... (watch us go out on goal diff.)
Xen Gin The Dragoons	Posted - 2007.10.21 19:39:00 - [5] Originally by: Menkaure My GOD. Can we not succeed at anything conclusively? Why does it ALWAYS come down to the last match, the last race, or whatever.... Just watching Hamilton, the poor kid. This after losing against Russia, although the RWC was a pleasent surprise. British sportsmen are ALWAYS down to the wire, on everything we ever do. My heart can't take it anymore... British are they now? What happened to English? That seems to disappear every time they lose.
Yao Shiu	Posted - 2007.10.21 19:57:00 - [6] I dont know what you're complaining about, we english excel at coming second
Menkaure Amarr Vanitas Corp.	Posted - 2007.10.21 20:59:00 - [7] Originally by: Xen Gin Originally by: Menkaure My GOD. Can we not succeed at anything conclusively? Why does it ALWAYS come down to the last match, the last race, or whatever.... Just watching Hamilton, the poor kid. This after losing against Russia, although the RWC was a pleasent surprise. British sportsmen are ALWAYS down to the wire, on everything we ever do. My heart can't take it anymore... British are they now? What happened to English? That seems to disappear every time they lose. You know, I did think of correcting that typo, but didn't think that anyone would think enough of it to comment on it.
Derovius Vaden	Posted - 2007.10.21 21:08:00 - [8] Originally by: Menkaure Edited by: Menkaure on 21/10/2007 20:58:17 My GOD. Can we not succeed at anything conclusively? Why does it ALWAYS come down to the last match, the last race, or whatever.... Just watching Hamilton, the poor kid. This after losing against Russia, although the RWC was a pleasent surprise. English sportsmen are ALWAYS down to the wire, on everything we ever do. My heart can't take it anymore... Thats because Englishmen are lazy; when everyone else wised up and swam back to mainland Europe back in caveman times, the Limey's said they'd wait for winter to freeze up the channel.
Kirjava Lothian Quay Industries Zzz	Posted - 2007.10.21 21:14:00 - [9] First of am ashamed to say my father was supporting South Africa. I ask people to consider again - ditch English/Scottish sports and make it BRITISH. Been 300 years since the bloody union of Parlaiment - why on Earth do we still need different sports teams to fuel the resentment. Seriously my dad's getting embarresing with his hatred of the English, what makes the two more different than differences between Newcastle and London, Glasgow and Manchester Originally by: CCP Morpheus Post with your alt.
Luthair StoneDog Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2007.10.21 22:29:00 - [10] Originally by: Menkaure Originally by: Xen Gin Originally by: Menkaure My GOD. Can we not succeed at anything conclusively? Why does it ALWAYS come down to the last match, the last race, or whatever.... Just watching Hamilton, the poor kid. This after losing against Russia, although the RWC was a pleasent surprise. British sportsmen are ALWAYS down to the wire, on everything we ever do. My heart can't take it anymore... British are they now? What happened to English? That seems to disappear every time they lose. You know, I did think of correcting that typo, but didn't think that anyone would think enough of it to comment on it. Well.. it's not a trivial thing. British and English are not interchangable terms. We Scots resent it when the English wave British flags at games where only England is represented.. we would rather you sang your own national anthem, rather than the British one, and we'd rather you didn't talk about British anything when you really mean English. If you mean all of Britain.. then fine.. if not, say England. (Trust me,.. I'll never say Britain when I mean Scotland.)
Luthair StoneDog Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2007.10.21 22:32:00 - [11] Originally by: Kirjava Edited by: Kirjava on 21/10/2007 21:19:18 First of am ashamed to say my father was supporting South Africa. I ask people to consider again - ditch English/Scottish sports and make it BRITISH. Been 300 years since the bloody union of Parlaiment - why on Earth do we still need different sports teams to fuel the resentment. Seriously it's getting ridiculous with this, what makes the two more different than differences between Newcastle and London, Glasgow and Manchester Umm.. Scotland and Wales are very proud of their seperate identities. The English might think we're just 'English people with funny accents'.. but the opposite is true.. And I wouldn't be thinking about unifying the sports teams in a year that the SNP, a party dedicated to full independence, won the election and formed the government of Scotland. ;)
Mtthias Clemi Gallente Infinitus Odium The Church.	Posted - 2007.10.21 22:37:00 - [12] I'm British. I like Scotland and wales, and will gladly cheer for them if england aren't in the running! National anthem should blates be Rule Britannia, i love that song -------------------------------------------- THE CAKE IS A LIE! THE CAKE IS A LIE! THE CAKE IS A LIE! THE CAKE IS A LIE! THE CAKE IS A LIE!
Luthair StoneDog Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2007.10.21 22:45:00 - [13] Edited by: Luthair StoneDog on 21/10/2007 22:45:13 Well.. I'm not speaking for all of my countrymen.. I wouldn't presume to do so.. but I would be surprised if you found very many Scots who would describe themselves as British first. If you ask a Scot what nationality he is.. he'll say Scottish. Hah.. I even know a few who'd say they were European before describing themselves as British. This isn't a reflection on England.. so don't get too worried.. it's just that we Scots have a very strong national identity. In England.. you really, deep down, see Britishness as an extension of Englishness.. which is just not who we are. Also.. and this is a reflection on England.. haha.. the majority of Scotas are just never going to root for you. (Though we're fine about the Olympics! :) )
Patch86 Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.21 23:58:00 - [14] Originally by: Luthair StoneDog Originally by: Menkaure Originally by: Xen Gin Originally by: Menkaure My GOD. Can we not succeed at anything conclusively? Why does it ALWAYS come down to the last match, the last race, or whatever.... Just watching Hamilton, the poor kid. This after losing against Russia, although the RWC was a pleasent surprise. British sportsmen are ALWAYS down to the wire, on everything we ever do. My heart can't take it anymore... British are they now? What happened to English? That seems to disappear every time they lose. You know, I did think of correcting that typo, but didn't think that anyone would think enough of it to comment on it. Well.. it's not a trivial thing. British and English are not interchangable terms. We Scots resent it when the English wave British flags at games where only England is represented.. we would rather you sang your own national anthem, rather than the British one, and we'd rather you didn't talk about British anything when you really mean English. If you mean all of Britain.. then fine.. if not, say England. (Trust me,.. I'll never say Britain when I mean Scotland.) You have it wrong, my friend. English people are both English and British. And European. And humans. And Earthlings. And Solarians. And such. In other words, we have room for multiple layers of identity. People waive British flags at England games because it IS a British team. Its not the ONLY British team (Scotland, Wales and NI being 3 other fine examples of Brits), but it is A British team. Is it not OK to support our British lads with British flags, just because there might be some other people who aren't playing whom the flag may apply to? Does that mean Americans couldn't waive the Stars And Stripes at a match between a Canadian and US team, in case it offends all the other American teams that aren't playing today? And on that matter, why do the Scotts hate the English so much in sports? Why do they despise their countrymen so much that they'll boo when they do even slightly well? As an Englishman I'd always cheer the England team if they were playing against a Scottish or Welsh team (we'd totally kick your ass. Honestly. Don't look at me like that. Russia who?). But when it's Scotland vs. [Someone else] I always think "Show them how a British team does it! Go go!". I don't think "Boo Scotland, go Moldova, or whoever you happen to be!". But then, I think it's probably just trendy to hate England. Hey, if it was in fashion in the 17th century, it's got to be cool, right? ------ Originally by: CCP Prism X There's no such thing as playing too much EvE! You all obviously need more accounts!
Thorliaron	Posted - 2007.10.22 00:02:00 - [15] Ignore the Scots, their just bitter little buggers, must suck having been **e at sports and being Englands *** for so long
Sehanine Caldari Solitary Confinement	Posted - 2007.10.22 01:09:00 - [16] Originally by: Thorliaron must suck having been ****e at sports We do perfectly well for a population of 5 million. England doesn't really have an excuse.
Luthair StoneDog Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2007.10.22 01:37:00 - [17]
Luthair StoneDog Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2007.10.22 01:38:00 - [18] Edited by: Luthair StoneDog on 22/10/2007 01:38:31 I donÆt have it wrong, but the reason takes a tiny bit of explanation. You are perfectly right, English people are English and British and Human and Solarsyteminians and Milkywayoonians. But that isnÆt the issue we were discussing. We do have multiple layers of identity.. (and by the way, people from Northern Ireland are not British. They are Irish. The Full name for the Union is ôThe United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Irelandö.. if you check, youÆll find that Northern Ireland is not on the island of Great Britain.).. but it is the order in which we express and value those particular layers of identity which differs between the constituent nations of the Union. English people are very likely to consider their Englishness and their Britishness to be of similar, if not equal worth. They are also prone to interchanging the terms.. saying one when, if you look at the context, they really mean the other. (Referring to England when they really mean the UK as a whole is a good example.) Now. Your analogy with the US Canada game isnÆt a particularly good one, because the United Kingdom is made up of four constituent NATIONS, at least three of which have extremely strong individual national identities which are (especially in Scotland) more important to their people than that of the Union. This is simply not true of the US states.. (except possibly Texas.. wow.. those Texans).. You will never, never ever see a Scottish, or a Welsh fan waving a British Union flag at a Scotland or Wales game... simply because that flag does not apply in the situation. It is the wrong flag to use.. which is why it irks the crap out of us when we see English people waving it in the same situation. It implies that Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland have something to do with the game.. when this is simply not true. IÆm ranting.. Look at that.. hmm. I think IÆm almost done. Look.. in school you learn about your nationÆs history right? English kids grow up learning about how awesome it is to hate the French.. and how everything bad that ever happened in English history had something to do with them. Well.. in Scotland we learn about our history.. and in the 13th, 14th, 15th, 16th, 17th, 18th centuries.. pretty much everything bad that ever happened to our country had something to do with the English. We donÆt factor much in your history.. but you do in ours. It would probably be a good idea for you to remember that we have completely different perspectives. And as for the ôFashionable to hate the Englishö thing... blame the English media.... 1966 was 41 years ago!! %$:^%$G
Luthair StoneDog Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2007.10.22 01:38:00 - [19] Umm.. blank post..?
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.10.22 11:18:00 - [20] Don't worry lads, we're still the best in the world at darts! Except when Barneveld wins of course... Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
Mtthias Clemi Gallente Infinitus Odium The Church.	Posted - 2007.10.22 11:28:00 - [21] Actually i do history, and we don't learn about how to hate the French, we learn how henry the eighth was an absolute fool of a man, i particularly remember when he attacked the scots to try and get them to sign a treaty, (well thats going to work isn't it you absolute idiot..) I would never wave anything other than the English flag at an england game, but if it was an English team (arsenal villa man u whatever) at a foreign ground it would be perfectly acceptable to wave around the ol union if you so wish, i mean why not? I had got a bit of a ramble planned, but i shall desist since i am very tired. -------------------------------------------- THE CAKE IS A LIE! THE CAKE IS A LIE! THE CAKE IS A LIE! THE CAKE IS A LIE! THE CAKE IS A LIE!
Thorliaron	Posted - 2007.10.22 13:47:00 - [22] Originally by: Sehanine Originally by: Thorliaron must suck having been **e at sports We do perfectly well for a population of 5 million.** England doesn't really have an excuse. Not going to many football tournies must be a really good achivement!
MrTriggerHappy Caldari Interstellar eXodus R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.10.22 13:57:00 - [23] Hell I was cheering for South Africa at the weekend.. it's the difference between the gf talking to me and her not talking to me. But to be fair, being yet another member of the Scottish Community.. I would of cheered them on regardless. Why, the "auld" enemy will always be the "auld" enemy, and generally their misconceptions about Scotland. Oh and on a note: Edinburgh is #1 place to live in the UK (was on channel 4 last night) -------------------------------- My Comments in no way reflect my corp or alliance
Yao Shiu	Posted - 2007.10.22 14:08:00 - [24] see, this is why I'm not a sports fan... it just ends up with nationalistic peen waving. cant you all just get along?
Weebear Celestial Horizon Corp. Valainaloce	Posted - 2007.10.22 14:43:00 - [25] Originally by: Thorliaron Originally by: Sehanine Originally by: Thorliaron must suck having been **e at sports We do perfectly well for a population of 5 million.** England doesn't really have an excuse. Not going to many football tournies must be a really good achivement! We are always there in spirit, supporting at least three other teams to begin with. Although we won't need to bother for the Euro Championships!
Luthair StoneDog Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2007.10.22 16:57:00 - [26] Originally by: Weebear Originally by: Thorliaron Originally by: Sehanine Originally by: Thorliaron must suck having been **e at sports We do perfectly well for a population of 5 million.** England doesn't really have an excuse. Not going to many football tournies must be a really good achivement! We are always there in spirit, supporting at least three other teams to begin with. Although we won't need to bother for the Euro Championships! WE HOPE!! Just have to beat those pesky Italians.. (At least it's a home game.. you know the Tartan army will be out in force!) I love how the Scots have taken over this thread!
Patch86 Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.22 18:12:00 - [27] Edited by: Patch86 on 22/10/2007 18:13:55 Originally by: Luthair StoneDog Englsih people are taught to hate the French in school? Thats a new one on me. I learned plenty about Scotland in school. Loads of the history curriculum (most of it, tbh- it was pretty much everything except the World Wars...) is entirely British-centric. What I learned is that the English really were bastards to the other Brits (of which I count the Irish, as inhabitants of the British Isles. Not mainland Britain, but the British Isles. Not perfect, but it is simpler when talking about the tangled history of our little cluster of nations). They invaded them, bullied them, manipulated them, and generally acted like imperialistic gits, as was the trend. I also learned that the English were nasty to the Indians. And the native Americans and Australians. And ESPECIALLY nasty to the Africans, who we enslaved for generations and shipped all over the world to do whatever nasty jobs we didn't fancy. But all of that happened centuries ago. I don't expect every Indian guy I meet to spit on me, or every Black guy to hold me personally responsible for what an ancestor of mine I've never met did to an ancestor of his he's never met 100 years before I was born. And as such, I can't understand why some Scottish people insist on holding me personally responsible for something some of our crazier dictators did north of the border back in the dark ages. Especially considering my only experience of English/Scottish relations personally is that of countrymen and compatriots, plus the occasional irrational hatred that is the subject of this mini-rant. It's just another form of racism...er, countryism...or whatever the correct word for arbitrary discrimination based on this particular brand of ethnicity is. And the reason we sing the British Nation Anthem at England games is because there IS NO English National Anthem. Sometimes Jerusalem gets trotted out (with a depressing lack of irony) or Land Of Hope And Glory, imperialistic twoddle that it is. But since England isn't a nation, it has no official national anthem. And since it's historic national anthem is God Save The Queen, and that's also been adopted as the British anthem. Personally, I'd advocate changing the British National Anthem to something a little less stuffy and less royal-centric, and let England keep God Save The Queen as it's own, but thats not gonna happen any time soon... /end rant. Needz moar g1n. ------ Originally by: CCP Prism X There's no such thing as playing too much EvE! You all obviously need more accounts!
Weebear Celestial Horizon Corp. Valainaloce	Posted - 2007.10.22 18:25:00 - [28] Originally by: Patch86 Edited by: Patch86 on 22/10/2007 18:13:55 Originally by: Luthair StoneDog And the reason we sing the British Nation Anthem at England games is because there IS NO English National Anthem. Sometimes Jerusalem gets trotted out (with a depressing lack of irony) or Land Of Hope And Glory, imperialistic twoddle that it is. But since England isn't a nation, it has no official national anthem. And since it's historic national anthem is God Save The Queen, and that's also been adopted as the British anthem. Personally, I'd advocate changing the British National Anthem to something a little less stuffy and less royal-centric, and let England keep God Save The Queen as it's own, but thats not gonna happen any time soon... Scotland also has no official anthem, other than God Save The Queen.
Jago Kain Amarr Ramm's RDI	Posted - 2007.10.22 18:32:00 - [29] Originally by: Patch86 Edited by: Patch86 on 22/10/2007 18:13:55 Originally by: Luthair StoneDog Englsih people are taught to hate the French in school? Thats a new one on me. I learned plenty about Scotland in school. Loads of the history curriculum (most of it, tbh- it was pretty much everything except the World Wars...) is entirely British-centric. What I learned is that the English really were bastards to the other Brits (of which I count the Irish, as inhabitants of the British Isles. Not mainland Britain, but the British Isles. Not perfect, but it is simpler when talking about the tangled history of our little cluster of nations). They invaded them, bullied them, manipulated them, and generally acted like imperialistic gits, as was the trend. I also learned that the English were nasty to the Indians. And the native Americans and Australians. And ESPECIALLY nasty to the Africans, who we enslaved for generations and shipped all over the world to do whatever nasty jobs we didn't fancy. But all of that happened centuries ago. I don't expect every Indian guy I meet to spit on me, or every Black guy to hold me personally responsible for what an ancestor of mine I've never met did to an ancestor of his he's never met 100 years before I was born. And as such, I can't understand why some Scottish people insist on holding me personally responsible for something some of our crazier dictators did north of the border back in the dark ages. Especially considering my only experience of English/Scottish relations personally is that of countrymen and compatriots, plus the occasional irrational hatred that is the subject of this mini-rant. It's just another form of racism...er, countryism...or whatever the correct word for arbitrary discrimination based on this particular brand of ethnicity is. And the reason we sing the British Nation Anthem at England games is because there IS NO English National Anthem. Sometimes Jerusalem gets trotted out (with a depressing lack of irony) or Land Of Hope And Glory, imperialistic twoddle that it is. But since England isn't a nation, it has no official national anthem. And since it's historic national anthem is God Save The Queen, and that's also been adopted as the British anthem. Personally, I'd advocate changing the British National Anthem to something a little less stuffy and less royal-centric, and let England keep God Save The Queen as it's own, but thats not gonna happen any time soon... /end rant. Needz moar g1n. I don't think that francophobia is actually on the cirriculum in schools here, but it's certainly part of the agenda in any discussion taking into account nationality in pubs. I too deplore the perpetuation of nationalist dogma that keep the Scottish, English, African, Indian, Australian, american, French, German, Irish, Welsh, whatever peoples from realising that we are essentially in the same boat and that the real enemy is the bastards who would have us all at each others' throats to take attention away from their hands in our pockets.... again. God Save The Queen needs scrapping as a national anthem for anywhere. I've never seen why it was neccessary to invoke the protection of a non-specific deity for a bunch of unelected, unaccountable, inbred, chinless wonders who have stolen most of Cornwall and get paid stupid amounts for setting a bad example. If we have to go with something involving god, can we please adopt One Love by Bob Marley as it is much more friendly and shouldn't upset our pale-blue cousins north of Hadrian's wall. Just a thought. ___________________________________________________ The game will never be over, because we're keeping the meme alive.
Kye Kenshin Martial.	Posted - 2007.10.22 18:42:00 - [30] Originally by: Patch86 Edited by: Patch86 on 22/10/2007 18:13:55 Originally by: Luthair StoneDog But all of that happened centuries ago. Its more like 60 years ago that imperialism ended. India only just gained independence after WWII. I agree our generation shouldn't be blamed for our ancestors actions. But the thing is nations have long memories and and actions of England in the past still affect the world today. Ever wondered why Ireland and Scotland have tiny populations compared to England or why Africa is still a constant mess? You just can't go around trying to subjugate a third of the world and expect people to just forget about it, especially since we still embrace it in our national indentity to this day, unlike Germans do with the facist years. -------------------------------------- Join Martial\|Beagle Corp Museum

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