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Petition: Not to Nerf Carriers

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 1 post(s)
Javeoon	Posted - 2007.10.22 22:52:00 - [1] Ok this isn't meant to be a discussion about the nerf to carriers brought up in the dev blog, just a place where people who don't like the idea can just type /signed not to do it. If you do like the idea for whatever reason just ignore the post. /signed
Twin blade Minmatar The Triangle Exa Nation	Posted - 2007.10.22 22:55:00 - [2] Its not a nerf god dam you are stupid grow up its a fix not a nerf. !
ViperVenom Labteck Corporation LTD. Libertas Fidelitas	Posted - 2007.10.22 22:56:00 - [3] /Signed 100% lets reflect... Triage mod-->Suxs Nidhoggur --> Suxs Make the Carrier /MOM a better supports ship--> SUXs Is George Bush running CCP? --www.yarrburger.com-- Also www.Pwnageinc.org-- If u whine about it,then it shall be nerf batted. Lets just stop pod killing while we at it!. --J/P--
ITTigerClawIK Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.10.22 22:58:00 - [4] /Sighned Fire the new guy CCP Sig space reclaimed in the name of me -courtesy of Tiggy ([email protected])
ViperVenom Labteck Corporation LTD. Libertas Fidelitas	Posted - 2007.10.22 22:58:00 - [5] Originally by: Twin blade Its not a nerf god dam you are stupid grow up its a fix not a nerf. Its a fix.. umm let me think about that.......... Drones Interface lv5 Wasted skill Minnie Carrier 4 Wasted Skill Fighter 5 Wasted skill (only a lil bit) U spend that much time on skills to be wasted and call it a fix! --www.yarrburger.com-- Also www.Pwnageinc.org-- If u whine about it,then it shall be nerf batted. Lets just stop pod killing while we at it!. --J/P--
Hudsonn Infinitus Odium The Church.	Posted - 2007.10.22 22:59:00 - [6] what are they nerfing? ___________________________
Gladiator Jonny Repo Industries	Posted - 2007.10.22 23:00:00 - [7] I dont even fly carriers, but the proposed changes are just wrong.
Twin blade Minmatar The Triangle Exa Nation	Posted - 2007.10.22 23:06:00 - [8] Originally by: ViperVenom Originally by: Twin blade Its not a nerf god dam you are stupid grow up its a fix not a nerf. Its a fix.. umm let me think about that.......... Drones Interface lv5 Wasted skill Minnie Carrier 4 Wasted Skill Fighter 5 Wasted skill (only a lil bit) U spend that much time on skills to be wasted and call it a fix! It only don't make them skills a waste in any way its trying to fix the fact carrier's are not used as support and stop them been used solo. I have most of the skills needed for a maxed out Nid and i don't see them as been a waste of time in any way as you can still send out as many fighter's as you could befor only not control them all your self. !
Perfect Diamond	Posted - 2007.10.22 23:13:00 - [9] I'm guessing ___ won't like this because they can't blob a system with fighters to lag incoming attackers from attacking their titans or pos. Isn't that their normal tactics? Although I don't like to hear that people will loose time for training. This idea does have some merit since it will cut down on the use of fighters to lag severs.
Shintai Gallente IonTech Corporation	Posted - 2007.10.22 23:23:00 - [10] Oh noes...the carrier becomes a support ship and not the first line attacker? Its not a nerf, its a fix! Abstraction and Transcendence: Nature, Shintai, and Geometry

Kell Braugh Caldari letter of marque Plunder-Bears	Posted - 2007.10.22 23:24:00 - [11] /signed Its kills small corp/alliance power with carriers as their capitals as it requires larger fleet actions involving a bunch of pilots for the power (if any is left) of the carrier to be truely realized. evil prevails when good men do nothing.
ITTigerClawIK Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.10.22 23:30:00 - [12] Originally by: Shintai Oh noes...the carrier becomes a support ship and not the first line attacker? Its not a nerf, its a fix! it is already used extensively as a support ship, though it has to be on the front lines to be used as one and a carriers defence IS its fighters... how can a carrier not be able to controll around 15 manned fighters at a time it aint that hard Sig space reclaimed in the name of me -courtesy of Tiggy ([email protected])
Kuzya Morozov Gallente Beets and Gravy Syndicate	Posted - 2007.10.22 23:32:00 - [13] zomg stfu -------------------------- "There's always a bigger blob." -Qui-Gon Jinn
NoNah Unseen University	Posted - 2007.10.22 23:35:00 - [14] Signed. For the simple reason that this does not fix any of the current issues with carriers and motherships, and renders modules such as Drone Control Units pretty useless, as you will want to keep even 5's. Postcount: 583643 [02:40:22] <elmickers> if you're caldari in a fleet fight, bring a corp
Jordan Musgrat Convergent Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.10.22 23:53:00 - [15] Originally by: Perfect Diamond I'm guessing ___ won't like this because they can't blob a system with fighters to lag incoming attackers from attacking their titans or pos. Isn't that their normal tactics? Although I don't like to hear that people will loose time for training. This idea does have some merit since it will cut down on the use of fighters to lag severs. That's the thing, if you're serious about deplying caps, there will be exactly as many fighters deployed, and having billions of support will be mandatory if you want to use your dps. There will actually be more lag. Also, carriers are used as support all the time, get in one and you'll learn what it means to rep a station. If just for the introduction of station services and capital remote reps, they shouldn't nerf it any more. ----------- Primary is family values, secondary is 0.0...
Liang Nuren The Avalon Foundation Knights Of Syndicate	Posted - 2007.10.23 00:00:00 - [16] Signed. It's a nerf (not a fix) to carriers and it's a nerf (not a fix) to the gang overall, since the carrier's fighters supplant whatever drone dps the gang's ships would normally have had. Furthermore, it removes two roles from the carrier (self defense and any sort of respectable damage dealer), while giving nothing at all to the fleet that it doesn't already have. Some well fitted cruisers, and certainly the overwhelming majority of BC's, will be able to tank carriers ffs. Even right now, Carriers are not solo, not pwn, and not widely used as blob machines. And yes, I've been carrier/mothership blobbed by MC (darn them!). Also, it's just ridiculous that a Moros will do more damage with (only) 5 Ogre II's than a carrier is capable of outputting entirely. Liang -- Retired forum *****. Plz tell me to STFU. Yarr?
Krall Amarr Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.10.23 00:05:00 - [17] /signed
Zhaine B e l l u m	Posted - 2007.10.23 00:47:00 - [18] Originally by: Shintai Oh noes...the carrier becomes a support ship and not the first line attacker? Its not a nerf, its a fix! Queue. Eff. Tea.
C601	Posted - 2007.10.23 00:50:00 - [19] waaa waaaa mommy ccp are nerfing carriersss...call them up and make them stop waaaaaa CCP Nerf the carriers
Rudy Metallo Brutor tribe	Posted - 2007.10.23 00:53:00 - [20] Originally by: ITTigerClawIK Originally by: Shintai Oh noes...the carrier becomes a support ship and not the first line attacker? Its not a nerf, its a fix! it is already used extensively as a support ship, though it has to be on the front lines to be used as one and a carriers defence IS its fighters... how can a carrier not be able to controll around 15 manned fighters at a time it aint that hard I hardly call having 15 drones that can waste a BS in under a minute "defense". -- We are the revolutionaries. We are the usurpers of the heavenly throne. We are the enemies of the Gods.

coeathal vega Gallente Dark Centuri Inc. Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.10.23 00:54:00 - [21] Edited by: coeathal vega on 23/10/2007 00:55:24 /signed. I understand the need of balancing, so the new customers can actually play the game, low sp chars can fight someone with higher sp, but nerfing carriers is just wrong. AND it is a nerf. Logically, yes, a 1b isk ship can kill a BS in seconds (when skilled well and BS pilot is a dumbass). on the other hand, a blasterthron can kill a frig within seconds, does that mean it should be nerfed too? I mean... if someone plays 2/3/4 years, invests time (in boring skills) and isk, why punish them because a couple month old player whines? ffs... CCP if you want to root out older players, who loose interest in the game, because their favorite ships become crap, you're doing a good job. AND, if this is supposed to fix lag, think about this - okay, carrier can CONTROl only 5 fighters, but still can launch 12-15 and assign them to others. is that a lag fix you think? ----
Veng3ance Prophets Of a Damned Universe	Posted - 2007.10.23 01:00:00 - [22] Indeed!
strictnine	Posted - 2007.10.23 01:04:00 - [23] Hi, I'm Zalapurk and recently transferred from the Quality Assurance department to the Game Design team. IÆve been with CCP for just under two years now and donÆt plan on going anywhere. Say hello to your newest balancer (I still haven't received a nerfbat though). I'm posting here now because the last few days we've been looking at the way battleships are functioning on Tranquility, and to be honest weære a little concerned with the direction itæs taking. What we want is pretty basic: We want to make battleships more reliant on their support fleet and less of a direct nber deathbringer. How are we going to do it? Well, we have an idea, and before you go ballistic remember that this is an idea and weære still working on it: We plan on changing the way guns work, and have it so that you can still have all the guns you want (within limits of your ship/skills) but you can only directly fire 2 of them at a time. That means that a battleship can assign 2 guns to a gang mate, assign 2 more to another gang mate etc. etc. This means you will NOT be able to fire 6/7/8 guns from a battleship and aim them all to incinerate a cruiser in .2 seconds. It does however mean that you can assign 2 guns to each of your lilæ friends in the fleet and use them as the messengers of your burning fury. Remember, weære not messing with the final total amount of guns you can have, just the amount you can control and delegate at a time. You can of course also operate 2 guns and make them attack a target of your own choice, if it pleases you.
Closer Still	Posted - 2007.10.23 01:49:00 - [24] /signed
Duff Man Caldari The Nine Gates Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.23 02:02:00 - [25] /signed -----------------------
Rangloff God's Of War	Posted - 2007.10.23 02:07:00 - [26] Get off of your soap box and roll with the balances. If you can't then why should I. /me joins the masses. CCP BRING BACK MY NANOPHOON WAAAAAAAAAAA
Futher Bezluden Minmatar ORIGIN SYSTEMS Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.23 03:05:00 - [27] /signed. Carriers don't need a nerf. Snakes, wtfspeed ships, damps/tracking dis need balancing. THUKKER -Be Paranoid
xHalcyonx Amarr Wreckless Abandon Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.10.23 03:30:00 - [28] Originally by: Rudy Metallo Originally by: ITTigerClawIK Originally by: Shintai Oh noes...the carrier becomes a support ship and not the first line attacker? Its not a nerf, its a fix! it is already used extensively as a support ship, though it has to be on the front lines to be used as one and a carriers defence IS its fighters... how can a carrier not be able to controll around 15 manned fighters at a time it aint that hard I hardly call having 15 drones that can waste a BS in under a minute "defense". ------------------- ნỊs uʍop əpỊsdn
Arthur Frayn Veterans Of Liberation	Posted - 2007.10.23 03:36:00 - [29] /signed. -- Eve needs a dose of Top Gun without the sweaty shower scenes.
coeathal vega Gallente Dark Centuri Inc. Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.10.23 03:45:00 - [30] Originally by: strictnine Hi, I'm Zalapurk and recently transferred from the Quality Assurance department to the Game Design team. IÆve been with CCP for just under two years now and donÆt plan on going anywhere. Say hello to your newest balancer (I still haven't received a nerfbat though). I'm posting here now because the last few days we've been looking at the way battleships are functioning on Tranquility, and to be honest weære a little concerned with the direction itæs taking. What we want is pretty basic: We want to make battleships more reliant on their support fleet and less of a direct nber deathbringer. How are we going to do it? Well, we have an idea, and before you go ballistic remember that this is an idea and weære still working on it: We plan on changing the way guns work, and have it so that you can still have all the guns you want (within limits of your ship/skills) but you can only directly fire 2 of them at a time. That means that a battleship can assign 2 guns to a gang mate, assign 2 more to another gang mate etc. etc. This means you will NOT be able to fire 6/7/8 guns from a battleship and aim them all to incinerate a cruiser in .2 seconds. It does however mean that you can assign 2 guns to each of your lilæ friends in the fleet and use them as the messengers of your burning fury. Remember, weære not messing with the final total amount of guns you can have, just the amount you can control and delegate at a time. You can of course also operate 2 guns and make them attack a target of your own choice, if it pleases you. you, sir, win this thread! ----

Shina Windol Caldari Dark Star LTD Atrocitas	Posted - 2007.10.23 04:19:00 - [31] /signed -------------------
Songlian Capsuleers inc	Posted - 2007.10.23 05:33:00 - [32] /signed
Letifer Deus A Astroid Belt	Posted - 2007.10.23 05:45:00 - [33] My main problem with this is that carrier pilots are now supposed to trust other people with with ~125-175 mil worth of uninsurable fighters? That sounds like a terrible solution to me. I DO agree that carriers need to be more support oriented, but the main reason they aren't is because carriers can't run remote reps in triage mode + their own reps for ****. They need a major capacitor capacity boost and remote systems energy usage reduction added to the triage. That way carriers A) don't get any better out at soloing and B) get much, much better at supporting. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Brought to you by the letter ARRR!"
BATTYMANNTHE DETSROYER	Posted - 2007.10.23 07:10:00 - [34] /signed
Futher Bezluden Minmatar ORIGIN SYSTEMS Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.23 07:23:00 - [35] Based on the love with which that dev's words have been embraced, I suggest you put him in protective custody during the fanfest or carrier pilots will be burning him in effigy -wait... in effigy means you don't actually burn them alive. nm. Just fire the noob and ship him off to work on Romanians in Space. THUKKER -Be Paranoid
k1Lz FinFleet Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.10.23 07:34:00 - [36] Signed
Jennifer Flate Caldari The Final Resurrection YouWhat	Posted - 2007.10.23 07:45:00 - [37] /signed
Times Drift Caldari Eden Project Empire Research	Posted - 2007.10.23 07:49:00 - [38] /signed From someone the other end of the fighters i can't fly a carrier but even i think i s bit of a silly idea hell I lost a perfectly good nighthawk to a nyx (while covering a retreat) but this is still a carppy idea
Mephistophilis hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.10.23 08:45:00 - [39] I think they should stop messing with a lot of things, fix this nerfd that. as soon as someone comes up with a new way of doing combat, people screem whaaaaa overpowered! CCP step in a hit with nerf bat! Stop messing ccp and let us deal with it
Mersault Gallente LFC FreeFall Securities	Posted - 2007.10.23 08:51:00 - [40] /signed

Skaaj FireStar Inc	Posted - 2007.10.23 08:59:00 - [41] Remember when Domi's could employ the 'cloud of death' people (domi pilots) whined about the nerf to drone control back in the day Domi is still good.... in fact very much favoured in PvP This isn't a nerf to Carriers, anyone who see's it that way is blind... and not that smart, This just means you'll have to take friends along to employ multiple fighter gankage... What on earth are CCP thinking trying to get people to fly around with friends!! What do they think this is... some sort of mmo game!!?
Duncan Storne	Posted - 2007.10.23 09:19:00 - [42] /signed If you believe carriers should be used in a support role more often than they are now, improve their ability to function in a support role.
AK Archangel Warhamsters Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.10.23 09:33:00 - [43] /signed
LoganFire Quam Singulari	Posted - 2007.10.23 10:08:00 - [44] Who cares anymore, just do what I am doing and start looking for a new game to play.
WildSide Spartan Industries Cruel Intentions	Posted - 2007.10.23 10:14:00 - [45] signed try doing some of ure ideas with major lag before talking about changing stuff.. _______________________________ Vids produced by me
ViolenTUK Gallente Vindicated Exiles 101010 Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.23 10:40:00 - [46] Signed. Carriers dont need this pointless nerf. www.eve-players.com
mama guru Gallente Corp 1 Allstars Insurgency	Posted - 2007.10.23 10:45:00 - [47] Originally by: Twin blade Its not a nerf god dam you are stupid grow up its a fix not a nerf. you only say that because you cant use one. -YOU ARE NOW READING MY SIGNATURE- EVE is like the "Fisherman's Friend" of MMOs. If it's too hard, you are too weak.
mama guru Gallente Corp 1 Allstars Insurgency	Posted - 2007.10.23 10:46:00 - [48] Originally by: Shintai Oh noes...the carrier becomes a support ship and not the first line attacker? Its not a nerf, its a fix! Do you even know what their +400% hitpoint buff was for? -YOU ARE NOW READING MY SIGNATURE- EVE is like the "Fisherman's Friend" of MMOs. If it's too hard, you are too weak.
Atius Tirawa Minmatar Wreckless Abandon Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.10.23 10:51:00 - [49] talk to my sig cuz my head won't listin -----------
Gartel Reiman Project F3	Posted - 2007.10.23 11:10:00 - [50] /signed The carrier's 1000 DPS is attainable by short-range battleships that are a tenth of the price. This won't do anything to fix lag since it still allows the same number of fighters to be in space (although of course now you need a bigger blob to be able to control them all). If CCP wants them to be used in more of a logistics role, they should have attributes that support this (quicker locking times for gangmates would be a good start). Part of the problem as well seems to be with the lag. From what I can tell, people wouldn't mind the fighters quite so much if they could target and take action against them in large battles. The actual DPS of a carrier isn't the problem, and having people bring alts in frigates to bring that DPS to bear won't address any of the issues.

Karentaki Gallente federation navy taskforce	Posted - 2007.10.23 11:18:00 - [51] WOOOT - now only large corps with loads of people on at one time stand a chance in any engagements involving capitals. Seriously - now the lag in fleet battles is going to be even worse, and carriers will resort to sitting at posses with their highs full of DCU's delegating their fighters to other people. CCP, why not just remove carriers and motherships altogether and simply inrease the drone bay on BS's so they can carry fighters... Oh yeah, because then we wouldn't have anything to waste skillpoints on and spend hours repping posses with - how fun. I've never flown a carrier, never been killed by one, and haven't even started training for one, so don't just call me noob who doesn't want to lose his 'I WIN BUTTON'. /signed =======================
Inigo Firebird FireTech Pure.	Posted - 2007.10.23 11:19:00 - [52] Edited by: Inigo Firebird on 23/10/2007 11:19:41 /Signed In space licking your frozen corpse !
Mister Xerox	Posted - 2007.10.23 11:26:00 - [53] whistles Everyone thinks /this/ is a dumb idea? So were missile changes? Drone changes? NOS changes? CCP is a master at coming up with some epically idiotic ideas and managing to pull (a few) of them off. Now, I don't fly carriers, I'm barely out of a cruiser, but I sympathize. OTHER changes should be put through, the 5 drone limit will put Carriers smack in the 'long range logistic transport' role and freeze it there with the same utility as a Procuror. Here's a few suggestions for adjustments: Reduce fighter cost by 70%. Increase their sig radius by 100%. Lowsec sentries intierdict to 200km (perfect lowsec balance - fighters can still be deployed, but no more idiot smartbomb caps on gates w/o the high risk of any little tackler pinning it there, but snipe caps can still do their thing just fine beyond 200km). As for lag... I don't see why fighters lag any more than drones, so what's the big deal? If you are serious about this massive change then enhance what they can actually do. Since they're intended to be logistics platforms, enhance those capabilities to make them the more useful. Increase self-repair and remote repair range along the same lines as logistic cruisers. Introduce logistic 'fighers' (or all roles, as drones now enjoy) & enhance them in the same manner as logistics cruisers.
000Hunter000 Gallente Magners Marauders	Posted - 2007.10.23 11:33:00 - [54] Why bother? for me it is clear that some ccp staffmembers have very low regard for the playerbase. Apparently we are biased and should think further then our ' i-win' button. CCP, let us pay the online shop with Direct Debit!!! Magners is now recruiting, evemail me or Dagazbo ingame.
Leeach	Posted - 2007.10.23 12:28:00 - [55] /signed I am a carrier pilot with ALL the skills in lvl 5 and to be honest a good BS gang will kill me before I kill the first BS. Fighters are not direct damage and there are plenty ways of killing them or have them warp around before they kill the first BS. Is it me or is this more of a mothership problem.. ? Since they have 10 fighters more then a carrier with max skills.. Anyway a blaster mega with maxed skills will kill most BS in around 1 min will they get a nerf to.. ?
Nick Parker Caldari Elite Storm Enterprises	Posted - 2007.10.23 12:37:00 - [56] I looked through my collection of old games, and found the wing commander series, & descent freespace1 and 2. IN all those games a carrier could launch as many fighter wings as it had to defend itself or engage enemy ships. Now in eve, CCP thinks it's brilliant to buck the mold and let carriers NOT be able to launch all it's fighters in defense or offense. Even Modern earth carriers can do that. Truth be told carriers aren't solopwn mobiles. You have to have gang mates move you, a single tech 1 frigate can render you unable to target anything for offensive or defensive purposes, unless you enter Triage mode, which renders your offense to virtually nothing. Also, Reducing how many fighters someone can launch isn't going to reduce lag. It's going to increase lag, as more people show up to a fight with carriers involved to control the extra fighters. So you nerf a poorly designed ship group further and increase lag. You fail /signed PS My views do not represent my corps.
rus6 Macabre Votum INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.10.23 12:51:00 - [57] I can see the problem with MOM's in empire, especially smart bombing on gates. Carriers are very vulnerable already to roaming gangs, be it in empire or 0.0. Realistically you only need a sorted of gang of around 5 Hacs to kill a solo carrier.. So my suggestion would be to ban MOM's using fighters in empire space and then if really needed and I do mean really, then further nerf so that carriers can't use fighters in empire space. Who cares about carriers, moms having loads of fighters in 0.0 tbh blobs are perfectly able to handle carriers MOMs etc as is. So why change 0.0 behaviour, just keep the empire noobs happy.
Sally Fourth	Posted - 2007.10.23 13:15:00 - [58] Originally by: rus6 I can see the problem with MOM's in empire, especially smart bombing on gates. Carriers are very vulnerable already to roaming gangs, be it in empire or 0.0. Realistically you only need a sorted of gang of around 5 Hacs to kill a solo carrier.. So my suggestion would be to ban MOM's using fighters in empire space and then if really needed and I do mean really, then further nerf so that carriers can't use fighters in empire space. Who cares about carriers, moms having loads of fighters in 0.0 tbh blobs are perfectly able to handle carriers MOMs etc as is. So why change 0.0 behaviour, just keep the empire noobs happy. Good idea too
kessah Blood Corsair's	Posted - 2007.10.23 13:18:00 - [59] /not signed - its a fix not a nerf -------------------------------------------------------- [Video] Forever Pirate 3

ISD BH Kreul Intentions ISD BH	Posted - 2007.10.23 13:19:00 - [60] Multiple threads for a petition are not needed, please see the game development forum for the other one. Thank you. forum rules \| [email protected]




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