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Stengerlan
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Posted - 2003.06.09 16:31:00 -
[1]
I've only had the game for a couple of weeks, i've not really been involved with any PvP to speak of. I have only run into a PC pirate or two, and escaped.
However, I see what looks to be a few holes in the game in terms of leaving it wide open to rampant abuse and griefing.. Granted, this isn't a concise list, but what I noticed in a day or two.
1) Station Camping - even in high security areas, a cruiser or two can endlessly camp the entrance to a station. If the cops get them low, they can just dock in the station to wipe agro, repair, go back out and gank more newbs.. Considering a well geared cruiser, can kill a newb in 1 hit, and even more advanced players in 2-3 hits, this is a serious griefing tactic.
Possible solutions: No docking permitted if you are engaged in combat within a certain perimeter of that station.... Or how about cops don't lose agro, and will pursue you to jumpgates and such even AFTER you dock, or warp out, they will remmeber you?
2) Jumpgate Camping - Seems to me jumpgates are an unwelcome chokepoint for PvP, especially when you factor in the 5-15 seconds it takes to load your ship after a jump. Far far too vulnerable, and a very cheap tactic.
Solution: Strong Sentry guns at most jumpgates, possible police presence. Or how about making jumpgates linked, and closer together?
3)Too few chokepoints to engage in battles - Eve is huge, the game really channels pirates to camp stations or jumpgates as the most viable place to find targets.. This is flawed, as the places you DON'T want pirates are those areas!
Solution: Figure out a way to create chokepoints. Every PvP game has chokepoints, a place that drives people looking for fights to the same general areas... In DAOC is Emain, in Shadowbane is Khar, in Neocron its Pepper Park... Eve is so big, and spread out, and with people able to jump immediately all around, theres only a couple viable spots it seems to fight.
Thats about it, but a couple of things I noticed immediately when I booted the game up.
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Tsaya
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Posted - 2003.06.09 16:53:00 -
[2]
About 1.: Totally valid, i agree that this is a problem atm.
About 2 and 3: You missed the point there, sorry ;).
Eve is NOT about consentual PvP. Eve is a game of non-consentual PvP and jumpgates are exactly the place where PvP combat should take place.
It is the beauty of the eve concept that there are no PvP "zones", that there is a gradual change from safe to totally lawless environments.
I said eve concept, cause the implementation of the concept is flawed at many points at the moment (see other topics), but installing guns at every gate would be a step in the entire wrong direction.
Many of us have enough fears about the dev-post regarding changes to travel like gate guns, and the idea you brought forth could, if implemented, kill the spirit of eve and ruin (read: destroy) the game longterm (no offense meant ;).
Linking the gates, likewise mentioned in the dev-post, sadly, would make the situation you described (problem of attacks while system is loading) much worse, cause then you could camp the droppoints, which you cant easily atm.
And about pirates being where you dont want em:
Of course they are not dumb enough to sit somewhere and wait till you turn up to shoot them, but try to hit you where you are most vulnerable, to get maximum profit for smallest risk. Thats just natural.
Edited by: Tsaya on 09/06/2003 16:58:36
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Laguna
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Posted - 2003.06.09 18:01:00 -
[3]
The problem is certainly in the implementation. Having someone warp to their death because they are waiting to load needs to be fixed.
I wouldn't mind jumpgate camping if the load issue wasn't there. That is exactly the point I think the poster was trying to make.
How to fix it:
Once you enter a jumpgate, make it so that you get 10 to 12 seconds of invulnerability and the inability to attack or use anything that effects another player. During that period, you should also not be able to jump through a gate.
That way, you have time to respond, and gate campers would still have the chance to kill you. You would not be sitting there waiting to load only to find out that you are already dead.
Think of it as coming back into phase from your warp fully if it makes you feel more warm and fuzzy about it :)
I guess something else to consider as a side effect to warping in other scenarios like roid fields. The same rules could apply, and less people would be subjected to pirates killing them before they load.
Just an idea. I mentioned it before, but I don't think the right eyes managed to get ahold of it. I think I'll post this in a new thread too.
Laguna
Edited by: Laguna on 09/06/2003 18:06:08
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Alvarrez
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Posted - 2003.06.09 18:58:00 -
[4]
One very easy way to implement a fix for most of these problems is through a minor client-side modification. Have the client send a signal to the server once the sector that was just entered has been loaded, and THEN have the ship visible to other players. That way there is no lag time between when you become visible to others and when you can actually control your ship.
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Alvarrez
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Posted - 2003.06.09 18:59:00 -
[5]
Another solution is to maybe start pre-emptive loading on approach to the jumpgate.. not sure how that would lag up playing on the beginning side of the jumpgate, but it would improve the in-between jump times.
Edited by: Alvarrez on 09/06/2003 19:04:09
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Alvarrez
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Posted - 2003.06.09 18:59:00 -
[6]
Damn SQL server errors!
Edited by: Alvarrez on 09/06/2003 19:01:26
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Seribus
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Posted - 2003.06.09 20:20:00 -
[7]
I have to disagree the jump gates should be choke points. In truth, jump gates are the most valuable asset a system has. Without them a system is cut off from the rest of the universe. These things should be heavily defended by sentri guns. The last thing the empires want is to have a gate destroyed as a result of collateral damage (I know it can't happen in the game, but it would be a legitimate concern if this were RL).
There are, however, plently of placed for PVP to occur. They are called asteroid fields. These are places that players are at constantly. It does not take much effort to scout around the fields in a system looking for a player.
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Starshaker
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Posted - 2003.06.09 21:04:00 -
[8]
Jumpgate camping is reasonable in low sec areas. In fact it would be totally logical for pirates to be there. In high sec areas there should be bountiful defenses put up by the owning empire to protect assets and trade. It's a no brainer.
Station camping is not game playing nor role playing but simply griefing. Only a sociopathic moron would bother to kill worthless noob ships over and over. But then every MMO has them. They are like a virus. If someone makes an offensive move against another player within a certain distance of a station they should not be allowed docking priveleges accept in a low sec system.
Stellar Products and Quality Resources
ticker: SPQR
established 6-03 |
MaiLina KaTar
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Posted - 2003.06.09 21:55:00 -
[9]
I often have it when I come out of warp that when I try to lock something I get this "Your ship is realigning its magnetic field" message. Why not simply make that a feature? So when you undock you canŠt lock anthing or dock at the station again for about 15 to 20 seconds or something because your ship has to realign its magnetic field. That would make station camping a no go IMO.
Mai's Idealog |
Khyle
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Posted - 2003.06.10 11:27:00 -
[10]
To laguna:
Again (can be read at many places): There is 10 second invulnerabity implemented after every jump and warp (and login, afaik). Btw, that is the reason for the "sensors cant lock" thing that was mentioned.
System loading takes often longer than that, for some people sometimes up to 30 seconds.
A 30 second invulnerability clearly is off-limits, it would annoy the hell out of us all. Therefore an invulnerability phase cant be the solution we are looking for. Only a change in the implementation of the jump process, loading system first and then moving the ship (out of "void") into the system can solve the issue thouroughly.
Please stop posting the invulnerability thing (have seen it posted not only once in the last days), posting it confuses people, cause its already there, and diverts attention away from a search for the real solution.
Best thanks.
Edited by: Khyle on 10/06/2003 11:33:20
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Alexander Drake
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Posted - 2003.06.10 21:29:00 -
[11]
1) Increase warp-in and warp out distances as well as invulnerability periods.
2) Give larger stations (and those in high-secuity regions + starting stations) intense EW that discourages locks withing a 10km radius around the station.
3) Deny docking privileges in empire space to characters with sec ratings below -5.0.
4) Introduce warp-out distances that are approximately 50-75% of the warp-in distance of 20km (if a player has to warp in 20km away from a given target, he/she should not be able to warp away from close range with large objects like stations and asteroids, this have the dual advantage of making a player's position in a system more of a tactical point, AND forcing combat further away from stations = killing campers).
All fo the above things would not be hard to do and would immeasurably improve n00b safety and gameplay in general.
-=-------------------------------------------=-
"Violence is not the answer, it is the question. YES is the answer."
::CEO/Founder:: -=Draconis Heavy Industries=- |
Van Halen
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Posted - 2004.05.13 02:16:00 -
[12]
or u kno how ur cloaked right? well lest say u just jumped out of a gate and now ur cloaked. well they could make it to where they cant lock u while ur cloaked or something so as soon as u moev they can fire. it also shouldnt show ur name to non gang members while ur cloaked.
2004.09.10 01:59:13 ] (combat) <color=0xffbbbb00>Your Heavy Neutron Blaster I perfectly strikes Ater Draconis [MYT], wrecking for 361.2 damage. |
Bubba1977
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Posted - 2004.05.13 02:17:00 -
[13]
This is from june of last year...why'd u bump it?
__________________________________________________
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vecdran
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Posted - 2004.05.13 02:35:00 -
[14]
 Originally by: Van Halen
or u kno how ur cloaked right? well lest say u just jumped out of a gate and now ur cloaked. well they could make it to where they cant lock u while ur cloaked or something so as soon as u moev they can fire. it also shouldnt show ur name to non gang members while ur cloaked.
Blithering idiot.
The Civilized Civire |
MooKids
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Posted - 2004.05.13 03:25:00 -
[15]
I was about to flame Stengerlan for being an idiot that didn't realize that these aren't a real problem and have been fixed. Then I realized this was a year old and now I am wondering why a newbie brought it back from the dead.
IN BEFORE THE LOCK!
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CCP can patch away bugs, but they can't patch away stupidity. |
Nafri
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Posted - 2004.05.13 07:57:00 -
[16]
camping stations with sentries in cruisers??
last time 2 dudes attacked me with their cruisers thy got blown up next to the station 
Wanna fly with me?
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Cardassius
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Posted - 2004.05.13 08:01:00 -
[17]
check the freaking post date dude..pfff..for crying out loud..digging up these old posts..
do you have too much time?!?!?!?
ASCI Recruiting! |
Neko Makai
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Posted - 2004.05.13 08:38:00 -
[18]
STOP BUMPING THIS TREAD....... oops i just did
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swisher
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Posted - 2004.05.13 09:48:00 -
[19]
Edited by: swisher on 13/05/2004 09:50:39
This is why most of us pvp vets in the game hate people like yourself (Stengerlan) your like every other carebear in the game always whining about something..and you know what CCP has given you guys everything and more..and to be honest this game wouldnt be anything with out pirates or pvpers..because no one would lose bs's markets would crash because everyone is just all carebearish people..if you want that kinda of game..go play Sims or something..but stop your whining.
-swish
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Orestes
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Posted - 2004.05.13 09:54:00 -
[20]
Ancient thread..
Join the IC! |
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