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LUH 3471
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Posted - 2007.10.27 01:58:00 -
[31]
the only thing that needs to be nerfed in eve are whiners
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Iscandar
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Posted - 2007.10.28 08:35:00 -
[32]
DAMP THE DAMPS!!! |
CommanderInChief
The-Secret-Service
Retribution.
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Posted - 2007.10.28 13:20:00 -
[33]
damps are way way too powerful, i had 2 SB IIs fitted and still couldnt target at 10km in a scorp! if your damped your pretty much dead, i would like to see then either seriously nerfed or removed completely
And before you say it yes i trained them to t2 versions, so i would lose out too.
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SpawnSupreme
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Posted - 2007.10.28 16:42:00 -
[34]
ballance if you are specilized in guns then you will whoop me anyday guns vs guns but i happen to be well trained in everything so if my guns dont beat you my damps will hehehe this is an idea that should be skipped
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Tarron Sarek
Gallente
Endica Enterprises
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Posted - 2007.10.28 18:35:00 -
[35]
Edited by: Tarron Sarek on 28/10/2007 18:41:52
Nice thread.
Regarding ECM and RSD balance, that's not a trivial comparison.
First and foremost: Countermeasures
- The counter for ECM is ECCM, which doesn't improve your setup in any other way. ECCM is limited to that one special purpose.
- The counter for RSDs are sensor boosters, which do improve a PvP setup, even if it's not used to counter RSDs. Most people use sensor boosters in PvP.
Second: Usability
- ECM is effective at any range, as it simply shuts down the target for 20 seconds.
It's harder to jam larger ships.
- RSD is most effective at long range, where it can break, prevent, or at least slow down locking. At short range it can only slow down locking.
Regarding scan resolution it's generally more effective to dampen larger ships.
Regarding targeting range it's more effective to dampen small ships.
Third: Ease of use
- ECM is kinda hard to use. To apply the effect it usually requires 3 or more modules, a specialised ship and some skills.
- RDSs are easy to use. The effect always applies and even one module on a ship without bonuses can have quite an effect on the target.
As one can see balance between those two is quite intricate. In certain situations dampeners are both easy to use and they have a devastating effect. Medium to long range, target without sensor booster..
This can make them appear overpowered. However the pilot has to dictate and choose the situation carefully. At short range against a target with sensor booster(s), it'll look quite different.
Anyhow, just like with ECM, the focus should be on specialised ships. On non-bonused ships the effect of RSDs should be much easier to compensate.
I think before changing the whole concept, the devs should first take a long hard look at the numbers. Some tweaks might be all that's required.
One has to realise that currently a ship without a bonus to dampeners can negate 2 sensor boosters with just 1 dampener.
60% booster <-> 48% dampener might look balanced at first glance, but at any rate it isn't.
The 2:1 ratio may be alright for specialised ships, but not for non specialised ships.
At the risk of repeating myself too often, this is my suggestion:
Target range reduction
40,0% Phased Muon Sensor Disruptor I/Remote Sensor Dampener II
38,5% Low Frequency Sensor Suppressor I
37,0% Indirect Scanning Dampening Unit I
35,5% Kapteyn Sensor Array Inhibitor I
34,0% Remote Sensor Dampener I
All bonuses are a bit closer together, so that the std. T1 damp doesn't become totally worthless, and the max is reduced by 8%. It's a small change to begin with. But small tweaks > big changes.
Scan resolution reduction
Half the current or modified values. Effectively much less than atm.
Signal Suppression Bonus
3% instead of 5%.
Specialised Ship Bonus
Probably 7,5% instead of 5%. Might require additional reduction of the module bonus.
_________________________________
- Balance is power, guard it well - |
Dotard
Minmatar
Vale Heavy Industries
Molotov Coalition
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Posted - 2007.10.28 20:36:00 -
[36]
[sarcasm]
Why doesn't CCP just nerf everything? Every ship of every race is exactly the same except for the skins. With different skins the whiners can still complain the other ships are prettier than theirs and call for nerfing of the shiney-ness of the other guys ship.
Make all the ships of each class have equal HP's on shields, armor and hull. Remove bonuses, remove any tanking mods, remove all the mods that do not pew-pew. No damps, disrupters, ECMs, speed mods. Only mods are the weapons that all do the exact same amount of damage, just some are pretty laser looking and some are flashy streaks of light like projectiles.
Oh, and put in joystick flight control like a flight sim. And no skills, remove them too so everyone from the newest noob to the veteran vet will be on equal footing.
[/sarcasm]
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Nerf You! Buff Me!
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Buyerr
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Posted - 2007.10.28 22:18:00 -
[37]
they are getting the nerf bat . 33% less effective :)
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Karentaki
Gallente
federation navy taskforce
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Posted - 2007.10.28 22:19:00 -
[38]
 Originally by: LUH 3471
the only thing that needs to be nerfed in eve are whiners
QFT
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Tarron Sarek
Gallente
Endica Enterprises
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Posted - 2007.10.28 23:52:00 -
[39]
Ah I knew it was a mistake to post in a thread with that kind of subject..
_________________________________
- Balance is power, guard it well - |
Saki Vashtal
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Posted - 2007.10.29 08:37:00 -
[40]
Damp Damps!! |
bulabuba
Gallente
Klima Galactic
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Posted - 2007.10.30 12:57:00 -
[41]
Edited by: bulabuba on 30/10/2007 13:02:11
Edited by: bulabuba on 30/10/2007 12:58:12
They should get the same treatment as ECM, and only be effective on E-War boats. Same with disruptors. Arguably the same should be done with Nos and Neuts.
All of these changes really only point in one direction, that is making just about every boat a role-player with significant weaknesses and vulnerabilities solo against anything but a "soft target" like a hauler, and making players more reliant on other players to augment their abilities with other specialties. This is seen in just about every MMO out there. No reason to have a massively multi-player game if everyone is going to play solo.
Every ship/setup should be pretty vulnerable to a number of other ships/setups in the game in a solo engagement if the enemy uses the correct tactics. Players (naturally) look for the ship/setup that makes them invulnerable most or all of the time. For a while it was nanophoons, now its damps.
The only problem I see with e-war ships as currently constituted is that they have weak tanks, when the opposite should probably be true. They should have weak offense, but hard-as-hell tanks since they are immediately primary in just about any gang or fleet fight.
The only thing that I don't like about he OP is the elitist "my SP should rule all" whine. That doesn't bode well for a game where it takes literally years to train up that SP no matter how much you play. Player skill, fitting choices, and tactics should be > SP. Not just a little. A lot. There should absolutely be ways for a 10m SP player to negate the SP of a 40m SP player if he uses more skill and better tactics or happens to have the right counter-setup. If this game gets nerfed to the point where SP rules all, and there's no way for newer players to catch up on SP, guess what? No new players. Dead game. Nobody wants to start playing a game where they'll be second best - forever.
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Are GoonSwarm ever going to be allowed to build up in any way in 0.0 space again?
No.
-DB Preacher[BoB] |
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