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Bellum Eternus
Gallente
Blood Corsair's
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Posted - 2007.10.24 05:25:00 -
[1]
I see one ship with something of an improvement due to drone bandwidth: the Vexor. Other than that, pretty much every other drone ship in Eve has been crippled in the DPS/flexibility department due to drone bandwidth.
I expected the Myrm (don't care really, Myrm with anything less than 5x heavies *and* backups is useless), but the Eos *and* the Ishkur getting nerfed? And the Eos losing 2x turrets AND not getting an improved tank? Seriously?
I guess I should just thank my lucky stars the Ishtar didn't get ruined as well.
Bellum Eternus
[Vid] L E G E N D A R Y
[Vid] L E G E N D A R Y I I |
achoura
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Posted - 2007.10.24 10:42:00 -
[2]
Not true, look at the amarrian ships the curse, pilgrim and arbitrator. They all have 150 drone bays now, bigger bays than the supposed drone race apparently.
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Velox Idolon
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Posted - 2007.10.24 11:12:00 -
[3]
buuut we lose the ability to fit 2 heavies 2 meds 1 light |
Eleana Tomelac
Gallente
Through the Looking Glass
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Posted - 2007.10.24 11:29:00 -
[4]
I forgot to look the stats of the ishkur, what bandwidth does it have now?
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Pocket drone carriers (tm) enthousiast !
Say hello to my tiny friends ! |
Velox Idolon
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Posted - 2007.10.24 11:30:00 -
[5]
25 mbit/s (5 lights) |
R'adeh
Gallente
0utbreak
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Posted - 2007.10.24 11:56:00 -
[6]
If I understand it correctly the patch will have the following consequences for drone ships:
- Smaller drone bays in a lot of cases
- Only smaller drones usable
- No drone shield recharge at scoop
I have no issue with point 3 whatsoever, even though I never thought it to be terrible overpowered because if they scoop drones you don't do any damage, and a clever pilot would not allow you to come close enough to play the scooping game.
However, all those nerfs together are a bit much for dedicated drone pilots. Drones will die a lot faster, and in most cases I'll have less spares. Every noob going after my drones will now kill me with ease...and there's nothing I can do about it unless I use damps. So is it CCPs goal to force me to use damps on all my drone ships? Do they realize that sometimes fitting damps on a drone ship isn't really an option?
I don't mind the Myrmidon nerf since it'll still be a good ship, but the Eos and Ishkur as it stands are dead.
The Eos will have a sub-par tank, damage that in line with others at best but not really if you consider the extreme range limitations, and the worst ganglinks every compared to the other commands.
I can't help it, but I feel CCP just kicked drone users in the balls. I was actually looking forward to the new drone changes because they sounded interesting, but as it stands it seems CCP just wants to reduce drone usage to help with the whole lag mess.
Good job! 
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<Random sig with a hot chick> |
Stribog
Caldari
0utbreak
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Posted - 2007.10.24 12:05:00 -
[7]
 Originally by: R'adeh
If I understand it correctly the patch will have the following consequences for drone ships:
- Smaller drone bays in a lot of cases
- Only smaller drones usable
- No drone shield recharge at scoop
I have no issue with point 3 whatsoever, even though I never thought it to be terrible overpowered because if they scoop drones you don't do any damage, and a clever pilot would not allow you to come close enough to play the scooping game.
However, all those nerfs together are a bit much for dedicated drone pilots. Drones will die a lot faster, and in most cases I'll have less spares. Every noob going after my drones will now kill me with ease...and there's nothing I can do about it unless I use damps. So is it CCPs goal to force me to use damps on all my drone ships? Do they realize that sometimes fitting damps on a drone ship isn't really an option?
I don't mind the Myrmidon nerf since it'll still be a good ship, but the Eos and Ishkur as it stands are dead.
The Eos will have a sub-par tank, damage that in line with others at best but not really if you consider the extreme range limitations, and the worst ganglinks every compared to the other commands.
I can't help it, but I feel CCP just kicked drone users in the balls. I was actually looking forward to the new drone changes because they sounded interesting, but as it stands it seems CCP just wants to reduce drone usage to help with the whole lag mess.
Good job!
I have to agree to all the points here. Im fine with the myrmidon getting smaller drones, but the Eos really lived on the fact it could field 5 heavys. Ah well, seems like they finnaly decided it was time for the Gallente nerf, and they did it pretty awesomely, good job ruining alot of our ships.
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Eleana Tomelac
Gallente
Through the Looking Glass
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Posted - 2007.10.24 12:30:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Eleana Tomelac on 24/10/2007 12:30:38
Trying to compare before and after of the ishkur (using EFT, all skills at lvl 5, yeah, a bit extreme, but...):
Ishkur from TQ with 3 150mm and AM : 211 DPS (I get 180 with my skills)
Ishkur with 25m3 bandwidth with 150mm and AM : 176 DPS (I get 159 with my skills)
Sure, it's lower than before, we knew it...
Let's compare to a railgun enyo :
Enyo with 4 150mm, empty high and 1 MFS II : 146 DPS (I get 140 with my skills)
Enyo with 4 125mm + std missile launcher and 1 MFS II : 151 DPS (I get 142)
My favorite enyo fit with neutron blasters and rocket launcher and 1 MFS II gets 228 DPS (218 for me) while an old blaster ishkur would get 253 DPS (221 for me) and the new one would get 218 DPS (200 for me).
Maybe the ishkur was overpowered on long range setups and better than an enyo on blasters (without using an MFS!)? I can't say otherwise, it's same tanking, faster, more firepower, longer range. I love the Ishkur, but I must admit it did rock and it will still rock. Anyway, I was already using lights (or only 1 med instead of possible2) in PvP to get replacement for lost drones...
Sounds like a balance between the enyo and ishkur...
PS : But yes, drones can be shot and we don't get free shield anymore! Drone survivability needs help!
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Pocket drone carriers (tm) enthousiast !
Say hello to my tiny friends ! |
Y3R M4W
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Posted - 2007.10.24 12:43:00 -
[9]
Too far with the Eos imo, as has been said, balanced dps, sub-par tank and crap gang links.
I don't mind the ishkur myself, I always carried only lights anyway, this is only a boost in my eyes.
And <3 arby + friends changes 
Note: YER MAW! is Scottish for Your Mother. |
Talos Munjab
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Posted - 2007.10.24 13:00:00 -
[10]
Im a little confused, why would they nerf a dedicated drone ship so that it has worse drone dps than the non drone race ships. this is insane. ive spent a lot of money on my ishtar, and from all the rumours ive seen flying about(a dev post to clear this all up would be nice) they will make the drone ships unflyabe, taking me back to lv3¦s while i train another races ships and skills in order to do lv4 missions.
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Iracham
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.10.24 13:03:00 -
[11]
Ishkur needs a real bonus now, since the +5 dronebay bonus is horrible considering it has a 25m3 base now.
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Stamm
Amarr
RHC
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2007.10.24 13:22:00 -
[12]
Why haven't they nerfed the Ishtar bandwidth? It's still showing as 125.
Galaxian Recruitment Info |
Eleana Tomelac
Gallente
Through the Looking Glass
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Posted - 2007.10.24 13:23:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Talos Munjab
ive spent a lot of money on my ishtar, and from all the rumours ive seen flying about(a dev post to clear this all up would be nice) they will make the drone ships unflyabe, taking me back to lv3¦s while i train another races ships and skills in order to do lv4 missions.
Sounds like nothing has changed for the ishtar, we said the ishkur (AS) changed.
The Ishtar is still a good HAC which does at 75 km same as a highly skilled dominix would do at 110 km... (using T2 sentry and big rails with spike)
And still has CPU issues (at least for me), but that's another subject.
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Pocket drone carriers (tm) enthousiast !
Say hello to my tiny friends ! |
Eleana Tomelac
Gallente
Through the Looking Glass
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Posted - 2007.10.24 13:32:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Stamm
Why haven't they nerfed the Ishtar bandwidth? It's still showing as 125.
And reduce the dominix bandwidth? 
The ishtar is not more powerful than a deimos, it's fine. On the opposite, myrmidon was much better than other tier 2 BCs and the ishkur was much better than the enyo.
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Pocket drone carriers (tm) enthousiast !
Say hello to my tiny friends ! |
Stamm
Amarr
RHC
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2007.10.24 13:33:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Eleana Tomelac
Originally by: Stamm
Why haven't they nerfed the Ishtar bandwidth? It's still showing as 125.
And reduce the dominix bandwidth?
The ishtar is not more powerful than a deimos, it's fine. On the opposite, myrmidon was much better than other tier 2 BCs and the ishkur was much better than the enyo.
No, the Dominix should stay at 125.
The Ishtar isn't fine.
Galaxian Recruitment Info |
Eleana Tomelac
Gallente
Through the Looking Glass
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Posted - 2007.10.24 13:37:00 -
[16]
Man, I was joking about dominix...
What is sooo wrong with the Ishtar? Shouldn't it hold more firepower than the myrmidon?
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Pocket drone carriers (tm) enthousiast !
Say hello to my tiny friends ! |
Sofring Eternus
Amarr
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2007.10.24 13:38:00 -
[17]
I was wondering if a nice boost to drone users might be in order, something along the lines of:
Drone Durability: +drone shield hp, armor hp, and hull hp
Drone Sharpshooting: +drone optimal, falloff, tracking
Drone Navigation: +drone velocity, agility, -mass
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ΞνΞ ΘΠLІΠΞ |
Stamm
Amarr
RHC
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2007.10.24 13:50:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Eleana Tomelac
Man, I was joking about dominix...
What is sooo wrong with the Ishtar? Shouldn't it hold more firepower than the myrmidon?
Are you joking with this question? Of course it shouldn't, it's a cruiser, the myrmidon is a battlecruiser.
Galaxian Recruitment Info |
Eleana Tomelac
Gallente
Through the Looking Glass
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Posted - 2007.10.24 14:06:00 -
[19]
It is not a cruiser!
It is a Heavy Assault Cruiser!
If you can't see the difference, maybe you don't understand what they should be good at...
The caldari ones gets very high range,
The gallente ones gets high damage, at closest range or in vulnerable long range (anyone sending heavy drones far away should loose them, sentries are sitting ducks)
The minmatar ones, vagabond has speed and damage, the muninn has range and damage
The amarr ones, sacrilege gets high damage on short range missiles, zealot gets range and damage
Where is the imbalance here? Or ou want to nerf all HAS?
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Pocket drone carriers (tm) enthousiast !
Say hello to my tiny friends ! |
R'adeh
Gallente
0utbreak
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Posted - 2007.10.24 14:19:00 -
[20]
Well, I still hope CCP listens to some of our feedback and things might still change. Would be sad to see all drone users get nerf'ed so ridiculously hard.
Anyone suggesting to remove heavy drones from the Ishtar is crazy because that would leave us with 3 (!!!!) turrets and only med drones. 3 turrets with not enough CPU to realistically fit heavy hitting guns, so damage will be abismal, and so will range.
But there's so many people unable to use their brain to deal with drones that they cried nerf for months and I guess CCP finally got tired of it and decided to nerf stuff to shut 'em up.
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<Random sig with a hot chick> |
Arshes Nei
Omega Fleet Enterprises
Executive Outcomes
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Posted - 2007.10.24 15:04:00 -
[21]
The myrmidon from its inception was dodgy at best, a turret/drone hybrid with tanking boni. It was never supposed to be a heavy drone ship, it was supposed as a medium droneboat with turrets, heavy tank and spare drones. CCP let the dronebay at 125m¦ so people could have meds + spares, and because using heavys was kinda balanced by not being able to hold spares.
The ishtar from its inception has been a pure droneboat. 3 of its 4 boni are purely dronerelated. The only reason it even has a turretboni is cause its based on the vexor. It has been intended to be a heavy drone boat with spares right from the start. Taking away these heavy drones from it would make it much worse than a curse, and adding more weapon hardpoints to it would require a complete redesign of the ship due to fittings.
What drone bandwith changes is that now ccp can prevent certain min/max setup differences like myrms(5meds/5 heavys) and ishkurs(5lights/3meds 2 lights), which makes ships more predictable and thus more easy to balance. If you need to include "and then player x can do ... so its balanced" into your balancing its dodgy, because player x might exactly not be able to do that.
Not saying i agree with it, but that might be how ccp sees this. Personally i think with the shields no longer going to 100% with every scoop/relaunch these min/max setups are ok.
P.S. Im still hoping for the eos, like the ishtar it was supposed to be a heavy drone boat.
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DCLawson
Rulers Of Mankind
Knights Of the Southerncross
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Posted - 2007.10.24 15:38:00 -
[22]
Edited by: DCLawson on 24/10/2007 15:38:14
my question is... whats next for caldari? amarr were nerfed in rev 2, gallente are now getting nerfed, when do minmitar and caldari get nerfed?
or is it that ccp is trying to slowly force everyone to quite eve because they have made all the ships people have trained so long and hard for, useless pieces of ****?
*goes and tries to find ccp's nerf bats*
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