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Daelin Blackleaf Aliastra	Posted - 2007.10.28 15:53:00 - [31] Originally by: Trishan Originally by: Ubaricous A lot of these setups will convince a Vaga to run away, but it takes something pretty special to actually trap the ****** and nothing Caldari really springs to mind for that. And, yet, more than a half of the vagas that have been built have been destroyed and The build/survival ratio of the cerberus is better. (Source, 2nd econoblog) "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." How many of those Cerbs are used for PvE? How many never leave empire? Now the same questions for the Vaga... (source: common sense)
Mr Bodacious mUfFiN fAcToRy	Posted - 2007.10.28 16:11:00 - [32] I'm gonna have to say half the vagabond pilots don't actually know how to pilot them properly. Rare is it to find a vagabond pilot that truly out-maneuvers you... most think its cool to orbit at 7 km/s
TOPSTER Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency	Posted - 2007.10.28 16:31:00 - [33] my caldari char with max missle skills (over 10 million in missiles) i dont think that the cerb even with precision will hurt a vaga going max speed? I've seen a few people posting that the cerb pwned the vaga going 16k or whatever could they post a video of this? Most of the time when i have tested this the missles do 1 damage or something silly like that. But if people have demonstrated otherwise i would be really interested in seeing evidence of this. _______________ MK2
Anon Forumalt	Posted - 2007.10.28 18:09:00 - [34] Above poster is correct...in theory it is IMPOSSIBLE for a Cerberus (or any other missileboat, for that matter) to hit a Vagabond. With 5/5 Target Navigation Prediction and 2 explosion velocity rigs, explosion velocities on Heavy Missiles BARELY pass 2000 m/s. Any vagabond that takes anything above 10% damage from a Cerberus is either fit horribly, piloted horribly, or both.
Ryysa Caldari	Posted - 2007.10.28 18:23:00 - [35] Edited by: Ryysa on 28/10/2007 18:24:35 Originally by: Anon Forumalt Above poster is correct...in theory it is IMPOSSIBLE for a Cerberus (or any other missileboat, for that matter) to hit a Vagabond. With 5/5 Target Navigation Prediction and 2 explosion velocity rigs, explosion velocities on Heavy Missiles BARELY pass 2000 m/s. Any vagabond that takes anything above 10% damage from a Cerberus is either fit horribly, piloted horribly, or both. Actually, vagabonds do not speedtank while shooting. Reason is, they won't hit anything, even with maxed skills (or gimp their already pathetic DPS). So perhaps before making such bold statements, you should try piloting the ship first. It is pointless to attack cerberus with vagabond unless cerberus is **ty fitted. Originally by:** Soros lots of torps in the air + a neut will insta volley a vaga anyday Perhaps you should fly the ship and do your math right, before you make random claims. Any vaga will gtfo if it seems it's cap is dying, it's a complete noob mistake to cap out so hard that you have no cap for mwd on the vaga. If you see that it's going that way, you gtfo. If not, you are a noob vagabond pilot. A vaga pilot who dies to that, will probably die to a good taranis pilot. Originally by: Trishan And, yet, more than a half of the vagas that have been built have been destroyed and The build/survival ratio of the cerberus is better. That's because a vagabond is used exclusively for PvP. A cerberus is used mostly for carebearing. You'd have to fail pretty hard to lose as much ships carebearing as PvPing. As for how to kill vagabond (keeping in mind, i've flown one for... a rather long time...). 1) Use a neut BS, with serious amount of neuts... Fit a rokh with enough neuts to empty his cap INSTANTLY, and you should also have MWD with dual overloadable webs to mwd up to him and ***him the moment he tries to get away. 2) Jump through a gate, then keep mwding back to the gate. If he is***y, he will come and try to bump you. When he does that - overload dualwebs. 3) Huginn. A single huginn can solo two vagabonds. The crappy part is, that Huginn is not caldari, so you will have to stick with option 1) or 2). Good luck vagahunting. EW Guide - KB Tool - My Music
Baron Primus	Posted - 2007.10.28 20:12:00 - [36] Nanos still have use? Pardon my noobishness please.. I know the speed boost was kicked off, but what other use do they serve? Originally by: SoftRevolution WoW is computer AIDS.
Vincent S	Posted - 2007.10.28 20:58:00 - [37] Originally by: Baron Primus Edited by: Baron Primus on 28/10/2007 20:27:08 Nanos still have use? Pardon my noobishness please.. I know the speed boost was kicked off, but what other use do they serve? EDIT: Whats the point of reducing mass? Reduced mass = higher top speed when MWD:ing
Ryysa Caldari	Posted - 2007.10.28 21:23:00 - [38] Originally by: Baron Primus Nanos still have use? Pardon my noobishness please.. I know the speed boost was kicked off, but what other use do they serve? EDIT: Whats the point of reducing mass? A mass reduction does not only equal the same reduction to the agility modifier, but also if you take a look at the speed formula, it affects how much your MWD boosts you speed. EW Guide - KB Tool - My Music
Maeltstome Minmatar D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.10.28 22:15:00 - [39] Originally by: Ryysa Edited by: Ryysa on 28/10/2007 18:34:05 Originally by: Anon Forumalt Above poster is correct...in theory it is IMPOSSIBLE for a Cerberus (or any other missileboat, for that matter) to hit a Vagabond. With 5/5 Target Navigation Prediction and 2 explosion velocity rigs, explosion velocities on Heavy Missiles BARELY pass 2000 m/s. Any vagabond that takes anything above 10% damage from a Cerberus is either fit horribly, piloted horribly, or both. Actually, vagabonds do not speedtank while shooting. Reason is, they won't hit anything, even with maxed skills (or gimp their already pathetic DPS). So perhaps before making such bold statements, you should try piloting the ship first. It is pointless to attack cerberus with vagabond unless cerberus is **ty fitted. Originally by:** Soros lots of torps in the air + a neut will insta volley a vaga anyday Perhaps you should fly the ship and do your math right, before you make random claims. Any vaga will gtfo if it seems it's cap is dying, it's a complete noob mistake to cap out so hard that you have no cap for mwd on the vaga. If you see that it's going that way, you gtfo. If not, you are a noob vagabond pilot. A vaga pilot who dies to that, will probably die to a good taranis pilot. Originally by: Trishan And, yet, more than a half of the vagas that have been built have been destroyed and The build/survival ratio of the cerberus is better. That's because a vagabond is used exclusively for PvP. A cerberus is used mostly for carebearing. You'd have to fail pretty hard to lose as much ships carebearing as PvPing. As for how to kill vagabond (keeping in mind, i've flown one for... a rather long time...). 1) Use a neut BS, with serious amount of neuts... Fit a rokh with enough neuts to empty his cap INSTANTLY, and you should also have MWD with dual overloadable webs to mwd up to him and ***him the moment he tries to get away. 2) Jump through a gate, then keep mwding/moving back to the gate. If he is*y, he will come and try to bump you. When he does that - overload dualwebs. 3) Huginn. A single huginn (with faction disruptor) can solo two vagabonds. The crappy part is, that Huginn is not caldari, so you will have to stick with option 1) or 2). Good luck vagahunting. TY for addressing the points that needed slapped down. im glad to see you never took the bait about a crow solo'ing a vagabond this time ;) Only vagabond ive ever lost (thats right, ive lost one... touch wood) was to a trap involving 2 rapiers and a lachesis... vaga's just can't handle rapiers when they are damped (if you've ever seen a***y rapier pilot get within 20km of a vaga, youll know they melt fast). P.S. Huginn is win for solo PVP, it gets primaried in gang/fleet, but solo you got a much better survivability factor than the vaga due to the web range bonus combined with lock range and sensor strength. P.P.S. Get a HAM cerb, it kills vaga's dead if they are crazy enough to stay around for more than a few volley's.
Ryysa Caldari	Posted - 2007.10.28 23:15:00 - [40] Edited by: Ryysa on 28/10/2007 23:16:13 Hehe, even one rapier with damps and some damp rigs can own you pretty hard :( People must realize that a vagabond is only as good as the pilot flying it. You can kill lots of dumb pilots, the problem why people are whining is, that it is pretty much impossible to die in a vagabond, unless you mess up. Good pilots don't mess up often, thus the wrong vagabond "invulnerability" image. Lots of vagabonds die every day. I found E-R's "hauler's kill vaga" movie particularily hilarious. EW Guide - KB Tool - My Music
6Bagheera9 Slacker Industries Exuro Mortis	Posted - 2007.10.29 01:08:00 - [41] The absolute minimum required to kill a Vaga using only Caldair ships would be a BB with racial ECM, 1 or 2 ceptors, and something to do damage. Once perma-jammed, the Vaga can be safely tackled by the ceptors and the rest is easy. But as many have already stated a decent Vaga pilot will bail if he sees that he's gonna be hopelessly jammed.
Sharupak Minmatar Knights Of the Black Sun Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.10.29 02:23:00 - [42] Originally by: Mortuus Tracking Disrupter or Minmatar ECM will work. WIN! Funny thing about minmatars even if we suck royally at it, we are gonna try to pull it nonetheless! _______________________________________________ RuntimeError: ChainEvent is blocking by design, but you're block trapped. You have'll have to find some alternative means to do Your Thing, dude.
Sorja E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.10.29 02:34:00 - [43] Leviathan. See, there's one! ____________________ A gentleman is someone who can play the bagpipe, but who does not.
Ishmael Hansen No Quarter. Vae Victis.	Posted - 2007.10.29 03:12:00 - [44] The only thing that will kill a vaga is poor piloting. Now a caldari ship that can kill it. A couple weeks ago killed a vaga with a navy caracal nanoed up, he was not that fast, around 5/6 km/s, my caracal does like 5km/s overheated. He was off guard as I was in a myrm when I first engaged him, then I changed to a caracal and made my first offensive move, mwd towards him and fire missiles, let him laugh at the 0.1 damage, then I mwd back to gate, he stays annoying people, after jumping a couple times back and forth he agresses a buddy and I go towards him with a point on him. At this time I just try to keep in the 24km till he loses cap for mwd and missiles hit him for damage. Imo he would rip my caracal apart if he decided to actually stop mwd around and engage without, also had no tank but cap boosters kept my shield booster running for enough time. He was too*****y and died because of it, otherwise don't think a single caldari ship can solo a vaga.
Trishan Green Men Incorporated	Posted - 2007.10.29 03:42:00 - [45] Originally by: Daelin Blackleaf How many of those Cerbs are used for PvE? How many never leave empire? Now the same questions for the Vaga... Oh, maybe all those cerberuses that died did so in empire, of old age. Or maybe people buy them and suicide them in front of a gate. Ooorr maybe its because they do use them in pvp and die like the other ship in question.
Trishan Green Men Incorporated	Posted - 2007.10.29 03:53:00 - [46] Originally by: Ryysa Originally by: Trishan And, yet, more than a half of the vagas that have been built have been destroyed and The build/survival ratio of the cerberus is better. That's because a vagabond is used exclusively for PvP. A cerberus is used mostly for carebearing. You'd have to fail pretty hard to lose as much ships carebearing as PvPing. Exactly my point, even accounting for the carebearing cerberuses. That each may have different "best case" scenarios, true. Quite frankly, either you neut them, drop a trail of missiles after the vaga so it has to run away (therefore "stopping getting pwned") before the cap runs dry, or you just go back to the gate and jump through. Not that hard, and it dies pretty frequently. Why all the continous whining about it?
Alyxa Mahan	Posted - 2007.10.29 11:26:00 - [47] Don't know, maybe cause most of the suggestions in here to stop one require a specialized battleship? Mind you, to stop one, not to kill one...
Plague Black 4S Corporation	Posted - 2007.10.29 13:08:00 - [48] Blackbird: low: skill based med: 2x minnie racial jammer 3x web 1x discruptor high: 3x launcher 1x blaster Ihe steps in too close he is toast. Apart from that he cant harm you orbiting at 16km and being jammed 100%.
Graalum Foundation R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.10.29 13:36:00 - [49] Originally by: Thad Raven Originally by: NoNah A crow should be able to do it somewhat easily.. Not a chance in hell. if you can get the vaga webbed and orbit at 500m all you have to worry about is drones... easier said than done though, and even then you still have to worry about drones.
Daelin Blackleaf Aliastra	Posted - 2007.10.29 15:31:00 - [50] Edited by: Daelin Blackleaf on 29/10/2007 15:35:39 Originally by: Trishan Originally by: Daelin Blackleaf How many of those Cerbs are used for PvE? How many never leave empire? Now the same questions for the Vaga... Oh, maybe all those cerberuses that died did so in empire, of old age. Or maybe people buy them and suicide them in front of a gate. Ooorr maybe its because they do use them in pvp and die like the other ship in question. Your proving my point. A greater proportion of Cerbs are used for PvE, both in empire and outside of it. This would mean there are indeed fewer losses because discounting inexperience the only way to lose a ship in PvE is to be jumped by enemies when outside of empire or to fall asleep in your pod. The number that are used and lost in PvP would therefore be far lower than Vaga before factoring in the survivability of the ship. Ergo the statistics are, as ever, misleading. I'm reasonably sure, though I don't have stats to prove it, that the number of PvP fitted Cerbs lost per PvP fitted Cerb in game would far out outweigh the number of PvP fitted Vaga's lost per PvP fitted Vaga in game. Do you really believe the Cerb has greater PvP survivability than a Vaga? Or are you just spouting statistics in the hope of stemming the tide of dissatisfaction that exists regarding speed-tanking. ------------- That aside the problem is not the Vaga. We simply have too many different ways of increasing the speed and it has now reached the point where speed can be higher for a great many ships than it should be. MWD... or even AB Triple Overdrives 3x Nano's/Mass reduction rigs Snake Implants (slots 1-6) +8% speed implant (slot 7) 2x AB/MWD boost implants (slots 8 and 10) We also have skirmish warfare - rapid deployment and the associated mindlink (slot 10 replaces a +5% to MWD/AB boost) Taken alone none of these create an immense problem but together, even sans a component or two due to price, they provide an unbalancing level of speed. The same could be said of shield boosting however you are far more likely to lose your investment, the shield tank will not help you get out of an unfavorable engagement, and it will not protect you from massed focused fire, therefore we don't see a great many Cyrstal+Gisti tanks outside of empire. A speed tank should be a viable tactic, reducing damage in a manner comparable to a standard tank while providing added mobility and range dictation, but it should not an I-win-or-I-run button.
Setana Manoro Gallente Firefly Inc.	Posted - 2007.10.29 15:34:00 - [51] Originally by: Dark hunter345 nano vagabond, is there any caldari ships/setups that can stop them? I am so tired of getting pwnd by them. Pls tell me how I can fit up a ship to stop the maddness.... Keep some Precision Scourge/Wrath with you. Keep a TD with you, and if you can 5 light neutralizing drones should screw him up badly. Oh, and if you are in a passive tanked Drake, switch to active and have a EM hardener with you. You'll also do more dps. Failgeddon wrecks CCP for XXX annoyed customers !
Commander Diaz Caldari TALON'S GRIP	Posted - 2007.10.29 16:10:00 - [52] Fit a raven with 2 or 3 heavy neuts and some t2 siege, sit in a belt and shoot rats. Wait for said vagabond to come and find you and et him tackle you. Shoot back with your torps and watch the vaga laugh to himself "silly carebear, his torps wont catch me." Wait a little while (i dunno 30 seconds or a minute, at least until there is a good trail of torps following him). Then hit him with your neuts. If he is really on the ball he will notice turn and try to warp, if he is a touch slow his microwarp will turn off and he will get hit by the torp train following him and that will be that. Alternatively just fit a domi web as someone said (or two) and overload it if you need to, they will be royally fubar'd.
Calexis Atredies Quantum Industries Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.10.29 17:04:00 - [53] I almost wiped the floor with a vaga using a passive drake fitted with precision scourge and 5 t2 hob gobs... only time they are vulnerable is when they warp in and are getting their speed up. Once that happens he chooses the attack range... which means if he wants to get out of scram range he can literally bugger off whenever he feels like it
WildSide Spartan Industries Cruel Intentions	Posted - 2007.10.29 17:15:00 - [54] Edited by: WildSide on 29/10/2007 17:24:08 Edited by: WildSide on 29/10/2007 17:21:30 most scary and prob one of the most effeciv vs solo/small gang vagas(nb: if its a tackler for a bigger gang or a large vaga gang ure screwed unless ure able to dock ect)when flying caldari, might accually be the good old raven:p 1 overheated web and 1 heavy neut+1medium neut+warp disuptor. just tank the vaga for a little and unless ure racial fitted for ratting vs EM, and ure tanking him fairly well, he sooner or later gonna change for faction emp ammo and go under 10km then just turn on the neuts and web, and u got a dead vaga. its scaringly effective. However....the raven pilot just got the suprice factor...u only got 1 shot with the web+neut, or he just runs of....and altleast I tend to "test" myself (manualy piloting around 8-9k m in circels around him, rdy to hit the mwd and mwd out of web range again) witin the web range of even caldari ships before starting to click the orbit button ...to check if he got web. so u have to be pacient, and wait untill ure sure hes gonna get stucked. another also working(but alteast Im starting to get aware of it) is a drake with web, point and mwd. he slowboats in the beginning and as soon as ure to close and confident using the emp ammo...he mwd while webbing...ensuring not very fast, but certain death for the vaga pilot. Vids produced by me
Ryysa Caldari	Posted - 2007.10.29 18:17:00 - [55] Edited by: Ryysa on 29/10/2007 18:19:05 Originally by: WildSide most scary and prob one of the most effeciv vs solo/small gang vagas(nb: if its a tackler for a bigger gang or a large vaga gang ure screwed unless ure able to dock ect)when flying caldari, might accually be the good old raven:p 1 overheated web and 1 heavy neut+1medium neut+warp disuptor. Good vaga pilot will realize you are neuting him and bugger off. Also, good vaga pilot will see that raven is more than 2 months old, and bugger off. Quote: just tank the vaga for a little and unless ure racial fitted for ratting vs EM, and ure tanking him fairly well, he sooner or later gonna change for faction emp ammo and go under 10km then just turn on the neuts and web, and u got a dead vaga. Only a noob will suicide his ship like that. Quote: its scaringly effective. Against noobs. Then again, you can kill noobs with any ship. Quote: another also working(but alteast Im starting to get aware of it) is a drake with web, point and mwd. he slowboats in the beginning and as soon as ure to close and confident using the emp ammo...he mwd while webbing...ensuring not very fast, but certain death for the vaga pilot. Only a noob vagabond pilot goes into web range. L2P. Originally by: Graalum if you can get the vaga webbed and orbit at 500m all you have to worry about is drones... Any good vaga pilot had nos, now he has neut. Lol @ you doing anything with no cap. Vaga without neut = noob vaga. Seriously, the only ship you will kill the guy with, for which he doesn't have to screw up really bad is a nano-ed up huginn / damping rapier / insta neut bs. All the other tactics are fairly pointless, since you will only kill noobs with them, and generally, unless it's a rich carebear noob, they don't have enough money to keep wasting vagabonds, neither will they drop any good loot. Flying a Vagabond or a nanoed up Huginn requires pilot skill, that's why people whine. Because they reward people who are good at the game with not dying. And they are mostly flown by people who are good at the game. That said, DS pasted me a link on MSN with a dead vaga that was using pulse lasers. You wouldn't really need special tactics to kill that. However, when someone asks here about how to kill a Vagabond pilot, i'd assume, he's asking how to kill a decent vagabond pilot, and not how to kill ebayer or isk buyer. EW Guide - KB Tool - My Music
Odium47	Posted - 2007.10.29 19:03:00 - [56] hahahaha The vaga is too fast to be easily killed with neuts or drones. Kill its speed and you have killed the vaga ! If 1 web does not work, maybe 2 will, but definetly 3 will hold it down! Hold it tied to you and then hit it...(well, think at the Sin City scene between Mickey and Elija)
WildSide Spartan Industries Cruel Intentions	Posted - 2007.10.29 19:56:00 - [57] Edited by: WildSide on 29/10/2007 19:58:45 Edited by: WildSide on 29/10/2007 19:57:43 Originally by: Ryysa Edited by: Ryysa on 29/10/2007 18:19:05 Originally by: WildSide most scary and prob one of the most effeciv vs solo/small gang vagas(nb: if its a tackler for a bigger gang or a large vaga gang ure screwed unless ure able to dock ect)when flying caldari, might accually be the good old raven:p 1 overheated web and 1 heavy neut+1medium neut+warp disuptor. Quote: Good vaga pilot will realize you are neuting him and bugger off. Also, good vaga pilot will see that raven is more than 2 months old, and bugger off I dunno how uber u are....but did u jsut read what I wrote? do both neut and webb at same time ..or he runs away. Also...ure reply says more about u than facts. if u find a raven alone with a pilot more than 2 mothns old and ure in a vaga u just run off? how many kills u gonna get then? blob mentalty at its best...I guess. Quote: just tank the vaga for a little and unless ure racial fitted for ratting vs EM, and ure tanking him fairly well, he sooner or later gonna change for faction emp ammo and go under 10km then just turn on the neuts and web, and u got a dead vaga. Quote: Only a noob will suicide his ship like that. I know very good pilots who have died to that trap. anyway..maybe that explain why u have no faith in be able to kill raven solo in a vaga? Quote: its scaringly effective. Quote: Against noobs. Then again, you can kill noobs with any ship. right... Quote: another also working(but alteast Im starting to get aware of it) is a drake with web, point and mwd. he slowboats in the beginning and as soon as ure to close and confident using the emp ammo...he mwd while webbing...ensuring not very fast, but certain death for the vaga pilot. Quote: Only a noob vagabond pilot goes into web range. u realise u do dmg at 15km right? unless u use barrage u doesnt hit at all almost. unless u got a gang to do the dmg sometimes u have to get closer to accualy hit with non tanked dmg like emp. Quote: However, when someone asks here about how to kill a Vagabond pilot, i'd assume, he's asking how to kill a decent vagabond pilot, and not how to kill ebayer or isk buyer. Not everyone is never making mistakes like u...sry...I fail...back to wow. Vids produced by me
Ishmael Hansen No Quarter. Vae Victis.	Posted - 2007.10.30 01:52:00 - [58] Originally by: Calexis Atredies I almost wiped the floor with a vaga using a passive drake fitted with precision scourge and 5 t2 hob gobs... only time they are vulnerable is when they warp in and are getting their speed up. Once that happens he chooses the attack range... which means if he wants to get out of scram range he can literally bugger off whenever he feels like it Almost
Rudy Metallo Additional Pylons	Posted - 2007.10.30 03:28:00 - [59] You're all forgetting the point of this thread. He asked if it will kill a Vagabond, and some of the setups will indeed do so, but the vagabond would have to be ***** stupid as hell to not run away once it realised what was going on. You're object is to hunt down and kill a vagabond, not to ask to to please stay while you kill it. In short, there are no such setups to do so solo in a Caldari ship, that I know of. MAYBE a rocket crow, but that would only work if the vaga had no drones. Which is, of course, perfectly viable, but unlikely. I know that I, being a vagabond pilot myself, always keep 5 spare drones in my hold in case I lose the ones in my bay. Takes 25 m3, saves you a **load of hassle and could possibly save your ass. Other than said situation, I can think of nothing that a good vaga pilot couldn't a) run away from or b) kill. -- We are the revolutionaries. We are the usurpers of the heavenly throne. We are the enemies of the Gods.
turbocrazy1989 Gallente The Lost Prophets Combined Planetary Union	Posted - 2007.10.31 19:07:00 - [60] Originally by: Dark hunter345 nano vagabond, is there any caldari ships/setups that can stop them? I am so tired of getting pwnd by them. Pls tell me how I can fit up a ship to stop the maddness.... no

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