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Ransoming built into UI + "Calling for help."

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Caffeine Junkie Caldari The Ministry Of Funny Walks	Posted - 2007.10.31 14:42:00 - [31] Originally by: b0ing 2) You are running a mission with your friend in high sec space. You are using smart bombs. Your smart bomb hits one of your friends drones. Concord will only come if you press the now flashing "SoS" button. If it was accidentally still on "Auto-SoS" setting, you can disengage the SoS by pressing the button as soon as you see concord appear, before your friend loses his 3b ISK Navy Raven. ...form a gang. Owner of the Kyonoke Pit
Nicholas Barker MASS Ministry Of Amarrian Secret Service	Posted - 2007.10.31 14:48:00 - [32] quick b0ing, another thread is failing, start another! also wall of fail. ---
Sylvia Lafayette	Posted - 2007.10.31 15:24:00 - [33] I like your ideas... it seams the only fix is something like this or remove killmails which causes the e-peen huggers to cry and we cant have that... /signed
dupral	Posted - 2007.10.31 15:35:00 - [34] Edited by: dupral on 31/10/2007 15:41:25 Not to be an A** or anything but when I was sitting here reading the idea about the sos button all I could think was calling 911... and I could just imagine how that would go... The following is a dramatized 911 call to The Citadel Police Operator: The Citadel 911 is this an emergency? Dupral: Yes, I'm in my ship and I'm being shot, he's firing rapidly, I need help quicky plz!!! Operator: are you being shot at right now? Dupral: No I'm guessing that he's going to shoot me in a minute... YES HE's SOOTING and orbiting me at 1000 m/s and my mining lasers arn't doing a thing??? Operator: Sir please calm down I will dispatch Concord immeadiately but I need to know your location. Dupral: UHHH... I'm in Eitu... HURRY!!! Operator: Where exactly in Eitu? Dupral: I don't Effing Know? somewhere, theres a giant veldspar rock next to me? I think I passed moon VII and theres a guy in a hulk next to me named m1n3r693r can't you just have them warp to me or something i mean comon? their concord right?? Operator: OK we are dispatching concord to Konola II Moon VI. Thank you, and remember that this call was provided in part by the Quaffe beverage drink, where every last drop counts. Is there anything else I can help with? Dupral: YEA you can send concord to Eitu? are even listening? You'd better hurry im hetting pwned out here... I am already at 10% sheilds COMEON!!! Operator: Sir I'm going to need you to Cal.. Dupral: Will you dispatch concord already??? I'm in my armor!!!!! Operator: Sir I'm going to have to ask you to calm down or I will be forced to leave the call. Dupral: O great Hes in my structure. Operator: Sir i have already dispatched Concord, they should be there monmentairly. Dupral: Great, I'm done, my ship is now a heaping pile of flaming scrap metal... Thanks im now im my personal Pineapple... You guys are freaking amazing! Operator: Ok then, Thank you, and remember that this call was provided in part by the Quaffe beverage drink, where every last drop counts. Is there anything else I can help with? Dupral: Yea can you upgrade my clone? Operator: no that can only be done at a station w/ a suitable medical bay. Dupral: GREAT Operator: Alright then if theres nothing else I can help you with, Thank you, and remember that this call was provided in part ::Click:: ::Edit:: Needless to say m1n3r693r was able to warp out, and as I warp in to check out my wreck and see if anything was still there (which it wasn't) I notice all the conord flocking about 50k from my empty wreck. I'm sorry its so long... but thats how I imagined that the sos (call concord button would work) now if perhaps you set personal standing to someone at maybe a +10 then they can shoot at you in empire space w/o concord attacking... --Dupral
Ipos	Posted - 2007.10.31 15:55:00 - [35] I hate it for all the reasons I love EVE. - Sorry but I think it's a terrible idea.
b0ing Sequential Digits	Posted - 2007.10.31 15:55:00 - [36] Originally by: Yellow Pixie Your idea has so many flaws. What if I am flying through 0.0 and someone begins sending ransom request after ransom request at me, making it so I get killed by a gate camp? Think before you post. 1. Anyone can currently do what you are talking about now. They could send you gang requests or private convo requests. If someone is spamming you with ransom requests, block them. Did you read the OP? Originally by: Yellow Pixie What if I accidentally ransom request my friend in high security space and concord kills me? Think before you post. What if you accidentally shoot someone in high sec? Pressing F1 is easier than: Right Click -> Ransom -> Type ISK amount -> Your target is currently not in combat with you, are you sure? -> Yes -> Concord appears -> Your friend disengages the SoS button because he sees you are about to be PWNed. Originally by: Yellow Pixie What if I just ransom my alt in 0.0 space 50 times over and over 1 billion isk each time, and now I have an uber ransom history and everyone trusts me? Think before you post. There is a 10% tax on ransoming, so you'd lose 5 billion isk if you did that, and if your record was ever displayed where anyone could see it, they would see something wrong with the dates/isk amounts and know it was just you doing it. Originally by: Yellow Pixie There are more flaws, but I will stop there. You have not exposed any flaws. Originally by: Yellow Pixie PS: Think before you post. Please read before you post.
b0ing Sequential Digits	Posted - 2007.10.31 15:57:00 - [37] Originally by: Caffeine Junkie Originally by: b0ing 2) You are running a mission with your friend in high sec space. You are using smart bombs. Your smart bomb hits one of your friends drones. Concord will only come if you press the now flashing "SoS" button. If it was accidentally still on "Auto-SoS" setting, you can disengage the SoS by pressing the button as soon as you see concord appear, before your friend loses his 3b ISK Navy Raven. ...form a gang. Gangs do nothing to stop Concord from killing you. The only way to shoot someone in high sec and not get killed is if you are at war, in the same corp, or your target is flagged to you for stealing from your can or somesuch.
b0ing Sequential Digits	Posted - 2007.10.31 16:00:00 - [38] Originally by: dupral Edited by: dupral on 31/10/2007 15:41:25 Not to be an A** or anything but when I was sitting here reading the idea about the sos button all I could think was calling 911... and I could just imagine how that would go... The following is a dramatized 911 call to The Citadel Police (Stuff) now if perhaps you set personal standing to someone at maybe a +10 then they can shoot at you in empire space w/o concord attacking... --Dupral While your long 911 call was a funny read, it attributed nothing in actually demonstrating why the SoS feature is bad. Your +10 personal standing idea is excellent. Would have a few differences from what I proposed, but is very close. Not bad.
b0ing Sequential Digits	Posted - 2007.10.31 16:05:00 - [39] Originally by: Ipos I hate it for all the reasons I love EVE. - Sorry but I think it's a terrible idea. If my idea is so bad, why do I not see you protesting killmails, security status, and publicly viewable bounties? Also, did you miss the part where, if the community/devs wish it so, ransom history need not be displayed publicly?
dupral	Posted - 2007.10.31 16:15:00 - [40] Originally by: b0ing Originally by: dupral Edited by: dupral on 31/10/2007 15:41:25 Quote from me... While your long 911 call was a funny read, it attributed nothing in actually demonstrating why the SoS feature is bad. Your +10 personal standing idea is excellent. Would have a few differences from what I proposed, but is very close. Not bad. Yea I wasn't really expecting it to contribute too much, just kill the seriousness a little bit. But I've never really understood the standing thing, of course besides the getting positive standing w/ 0.0 stations owners and for flagging enimies in your corp. but I did notice that if you set someone to high standing that they can take from jet cans that belong to you w/o out being flagged as an agression. I think it would only be logical to allow aggression. now that would alo propose a problem or two: 1st, you would obvisiously have to trust the person you have set high standing to. as of right now, the only ppl I have set high standing to is a personal buddy and a couple people that I have spent coutless hours conversing with on Teamseak. 2nd, for someone that does rent 0.0 space, I think that there should be a in game function for doing something like that, whether the alliance ower gives the access away for free or they charge a fee per month. if the station owner sets you to positive standing then you can technically shoot at anyone w/ in their space... and if you happen to catch one of them in high sec. that would be unlikely but exploitable. So I would certainly say it would have to go solely off of personal standing or there could be an in game function for renting 0.0 space. --Dupral
MR CAPSLOCK	Posted - 2007.10.31 16:23:00 - [41] Edited by: MR CAPSLOCK on 31/10/2007 16:23:27 EVE = SANDBOX Yur Idea: EVE = WOW You do you need another feture when you can simple convo -> ransom?!?1?!
Arkanstar Caldari Perkone	Posted - 2007.10.31 16:25:00 - [42] I don't understand why people don't like this idea. It just makes official and streamlines processes that already exsit.
Arkanstar Caldari Perkone	Posted - 2007.10.31 16:27:00 - [43] Also, aside from the SOS button, he is not proposing any changes to gameplay!!!! Merely incorporating a user-friendly interface to make ransoming easier for everyone. If you want to kill afterwards, go for it.
MR CAPSLOCK	Posted - 2007.10.31 16:29:00 - [44] Edited by: MR CAPSLOCK on 31/10/2007 16:29:11 Originally by: Arkanstar Merely incorporating a user-friendly interface to make ransoming easier for everyone. Its called a private convo. In RL you done see pirates having a secure process to ransom. THEY ARE PIRATES, THEY CROSS THE LAW, WHY WOULD CONCORD EVER PUT A SECURE RANSOMING FEATURE IN?
Arkanstar Caldari Perkone	Posted - 2007.10.31 16:35:00 - [45] Originally by: MR CAPSLOCK Edited by: MR CAPSLOCK on 31/10/2007 16:29:11 Originally by: Arkanstar Merely incorporating a user-friendly interface to make ransoming easier for everyone. Its called a private convo. In RL you done see pirates having a secure process to ransom. THEY ARE PIRATES, THEY CROSS THE LAW, WHY WOULD CONCORD EVER PUT A SECURE RANSOMING FEATURE IN? In real life you don't see pirates.... No, the thugs off the coast of Africa don't count.
MR CAPSLOCK	Posted - 2007.10.31 16:38:00 - [46] What your proposing requeres no skills you just input amount of isk they need to pay them either kill them or let them go. These days you have to private convo and physically type "500m or you die now" which makes it all the fun!
lolzor	Posted - 2007.10.31 16:42:00 - [47] Originally by: MR CAPSLOCK Edited by: MR CAPSLOCK on 31/10/2007 16:23:27 EVE = SANDBOX Yur Idea: EVE = WOW This tbh.
Kenjie Gallente Garoun Investment Bank	Posted - 2007.10.31 16:50:00 - [48] Look, I have ransomed a good amount of ships.... and I would hate this. The best part of ransoming is the conversation that you have with the person while your blowing his loved ship to pieces all the time trying to convince him its in his best interest to pay up. This would completely eliminate the fun in ransoming someone, not to mention then everyone would ransom ships and well most would just kill you afterwards! Basicly that would be like the cops giving car thieves a special machine that took debit cards so that they could ransom other peoples cars. I rate the idea as follows Creativeness: 4/10 Usefulness: 6/10 realisticness: 1/10 Overall: 5/10 Notes: If something like this gets implemented i'm going to stab my self in the eyes and start playing eve blind! Ok now on to the SoS concord idea.... Ummm.. WTF is all I have to say.. why on earth would you ever even think about wanting this feature with the amount of lagg that currently exists in the game. I meen currently now if you attack someone in empire, its pretty much almost instant WTFPWNage by the big cord. Well if you can get them away from the donuts. However what your proposing helps the people out that want to attack people in empire, cause now if they manage to create enough lag cough Jita cough they dont have to worry about you having time to press the SoS button, and there is a slight chance that lag could cause your SoS to go through slow or not at all. To play on the dudes story im going to create one of my own, not that its nessary but just cause it sounds fun! Kenjie - Dials 911 as he is being attacked at an empire gate camp 911 Dude - pssht he ho hlp yo. Kenjie - Arg! Hold on I only have 1 bar here, let me see if I can get a better signal! moves around in pod as he is getting wasted Can you hear me now? 911 Dude - Sir whats the problem? Kenjie - Im being wasted at an empire gate camp can you send concord please.. 911 Dude - Sir your breaking up and getting wasted at the 1 bar in the empire gate is not a reason to call 911. Kenjie - No no, Im taking shots. I need help im going to loose my ship! 911 Dude - Have a good day sir! Kenjie - what?? no!... BOOM!!! Im not going to even bother writing a rating for this idea. Keep the instant wtfpwn that the big cord has now.
Nicholas Barker MASS Ministry Of Amarrian Secret Service	Posted - 2007.10.31 17:33:00 - [49] You remind me of somebody b0ing. ---
b0ing Sequential Digits	Posted - 2007.10.31 18:01:00 - [50] Originally by: Arkanstar I don't understand why people don't like this idea. It just makes official and streamlines processes that already exsit. It appears, for the most part, that they do not like it because they do not understand it.
b0ing Sequential Digits	Posted - 2007.10.31 18:05:00 - [51] Originally by: MR CAPSLOCK Edited by: MR CAPSLOCK on 31/10/2007 16:29:11 Originally by: Arkanstar Merely incorporating a user-friendly interface to make ransoming easier for everyone. Its called a private convo. In RL you done see pirates having a secure process to ransom. THEY ARE PIRATES, THEY CROSS THE LAW, WHY WOULD CONCORD EVER PUT A SECURE RANSOMING FEATURE IN? How is this a "secure process?" It's just a chat window with a visible ISK amount, changeable by the ransomer as he convinces his victim to pay. Chat is still happening. The ransomer can still collect the fee then kill. The big change has nothing to do with the visual appearance of the ransom/chat window. It's the fact that th entire ransom statistics will be recorded and saved for both parties, in a filterable and searchable database, just like killmails.
b0ing Sequential Digits	Posted - 2007.10.31 18:11:00 - [52] Originally by: MR CAPSLOCK What your proposing requeres no skills you just input amount of isk they need to pay them either kill them or let them go. These days you have to private convo and physically type "500m or you die now" which makes it all the fun! ...? In my proposed system you still chat with the victim. You still have to convince him, while he tries to either barter with you or stall while his friends come, or slowly inch closer and closer to the gate, or reject your request and face the consequences. It is all still there.
b0ing Sequential Digits	Posted - 2007.10.31 18:22:00 - [53] Originally by: Kenjie Look, I have ransomed a good amount of ships.... and I would hate this. The best part of ransoming is the conversation that you have with the person while your blowing his loved ship to pieces all the time trying to convince him its in his best interest to pay up. This would still be the core of the ransom in my proposed system. The ransom UI itself IS a trade-window(of ISK)/chatbox where you convince the victim to pay the ISK amount at the top of the chat window. Originally by: Kenjie This would completely eliminate the fun in ransoming someone... You misunderstand. Originally by: Kenjie ...not to mention then everyone would ransom ships and well most would just kill you afterwards! Why would this system make pirates kill a higher percentage of people after they pay? I do not see how it would affect it in that way. Please explain. Originally by: Kenjie Basicly that would be like the cops giving car thieves a special machine that took debit cards so that they could ransom other peoples cars. Again, this has nothing to do with concord. Did concord give us a trade window so that we can scam people? Did concord give us contracts so we can make sweet deals with faction items? No. It has nothing to do with any type of police force, in game or out. No one gave anyone anything, except CCP giving the players a sweet new feature if this is implemented. Originally by: Kenjie However what your proposing helps the people out that want to attack people in empire, cause now if they manage to create enough lag cough Jita cough they dont have to worry about you having time to press the SoS button, and there is a slight chance that lag could cause your SoS to go through slow or not at all. The dafault setting for SoS is set to automatic. Most people will never change this option, or even notice it. So someone attacking you now will result in the exact same outcome as someone attacking you after this button is implemented. Lag has nothing to do with this.
Baaldor Caldari Igneus Auctorita GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.10.31 19:09:00 - [54] b0ing, You have obviously took the time to work this out. However a little word of caution, the more complex the idea the less chance to ever be implemented and or followed. Most players have the attention span of a gerbil when it comes to this kind of stuff. The problem is that most pirates have already worked out the logistics and developed a method they are comfortable with. And most all of the methods used by pirates were created by the pirates themselves. Need to go back and trim the overhead on this hog and make it simple. K.I.S.S principal FTW! THE PREVIOUS VIEWS AND STATEMENTS DO NOT REPRESENT AND OR SUPPORTED BY THE MANY VOICES IN MY HEAD.
Kenjie Gallente Garoun Investment Bank	Posted - 2007.10.31 19:35:00 - [55] Originally by: b0ing Originally by: Kenjie Look, I have ransomed a good amount of ships.... and I would hate this. The best part of ransoming is the conversation that you have with the person while your blowing his loved ship to pieces all the time trying to convince him its in his best interest to pay up. This would still be the core of the ransom in my proposed system. The ransom UI itself IS a trade-window(of ISK)/chatbox where you convince the victim to pay the ISK amount at the top of the chat window. Originally by: Kenjie This would completely eliminate the fun in ransoming someone... You misunderstand. Originally by: Kenjie ...not to mention then everyone would ransom ships and well most would just kill you afterwards! Why would this system make pirates kill a higher percentage of people after they pay? I do not see how it would affect it in that way. Please explain. Originally by: Kenjie Basicly that would be like the cops giving car thieves a special machine that took debit cards so that they could ransom other peoples cars. Again, this has nothing to do with concord. Did concord give us a trade window so that we can scam people? Did concord give us contracts so we can make sweet deals with faction items? No. It has nothing to do with any type of police force, in game or out. No one gave anyone anything, except CCP giving the players a sweet new feature if this is implemented. Originally by: Kenjie However what your proposing helps the people out that want to attack people in empire, cause now if they manage to create enough lag cough Jita cough they dont have to worry about you having time to press the SoS button, and there is a slight chance that lag could cause your SoS to go through slow or not at all. The dafault setting for SoS is set to automatic. Most people will never change this option, or even notice it. So someone attacking you now will result in the exact same outcome as someone attacking you after this button is implemented. Lag has nothing to do with this. Im confused, you qoute me and tell me that the system your proposing is pretty much like the system already in place, execpt now theres a shiney little button...... umm... ya.... lets focus more on usefull things... like why the devs hate gallente so much, or all this damned lagg... and stop trying to extend a system thats already in place and works great for those who use it correctly.
Dant Kramble	Posted - 2007.10.31 19:45:00 - [56] I really like the idea. Perhaps I missed in discussion this being added, but here: The only addition I'd like to see is a flag for violating the conditions of the ransom. Perhaps using the 15 minute aggro counter in reverse - where a pilot who has paid ransom shows up (green?) to pirate corp members. I don't know if violating ransom conditions should impact sec status further, but it should be very quickly observable when a captive pilot decides whether or not to pay ransom. If the dev's were to go to the trouble of the system you suggest, they ought to build in a way to make it less scam-able. More profitable to pirates and victims, all good.
b0ing Sequential Digits	Posted - 2007.11.01 09:31:00 - [57] Originally by: Dant Kramble Edited by: Dant Kramble on 31/10/2007 19:48:33 I really like the idea. Perhaps I missed in discussion this being added, but here: The only addition I'd like to see is a flag for violating the conditions of the ransom. Perhaps using the 15 minute aggro counter in reverse - where a pilot who has paid ransom shows up (green?) to pirate corp members. If a pirate pods a guy who just paid ransom, that should become public knowledge as well (if the ransom itself becomes so). I don't know if violating ransom conditions should impact sec status further, but pirate's history should be very quickly observable when a captive pilot decides whether or not to pay ransom. If the dev's were to go to the trouble of the system you suggest, they ought to build in a way to make it less scam-able. More profitable to pirates and victims, all good. I might be wrong, but I think everything you mentioned except for "...a pilot who has paid ransom shows up (green?) to pirate corp (and gang) members." was covered in my OP. At any rate, good stuff. Thank you.
b0ing Sequential Digits	Posted - 2007.11.01 09:44:00 - [58] Originally by: Kenjie Im confused, you qoute me and tell me that the system your proposing is pretty much like the system already in place, execpt now theres a shiney little button...... umm... ya.... lets focus more on usefull things... like why the devs hate gallente so much, or all this damned lagg... For the things you were saying were flawed with my ideas, it will work the same after the implementation as it does now. For example, you said the SoS button will allow people to take advantage of lag and kill people in high sec. I said that anyone flying in highsec AFK or otherwise in a situation where a person might try to gank them will probably have the default autoSoS activated, so concord will come just as fast to help them as they currently would right now. Also, I do not see what lag has to do with anything. If someone shoots you in PVP, would making it so you can shoot back be a bad feature because then lag might make you respond 200 milliseconds slower than if you had no option to press a button to shoot back?
cal nereus Bounty Hunter - Dark Legion Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2007.11.01 11:39:00 - [59] Originally by: Baaldor b0ing, You have obviously took the time to work this out. However a little word of caution, the more complex the idea the less chance to ever be implemented and or followed. Most players have the attention span of a gerbil when it comes to this kind of stuff. The problem is that most pirates have already worked out the logistics and developed a method they are comfortable with. And most all of the methods used by pirates were created by the pirates themselves. Need to go back and trim the overhead on this hog and make it simple. K.I.S.S principal FTW! Quoting this because it makes sense. I agree that ransoming is a rare occurrence, but I still don't see the proposed system changing enough to justify its implementation. Then again, CCP has implemented some stuff that's even worse. --- Join BH-DL
Verone	Posted - 2007.11.01 11:47:00 - [60] I've been pirating and ransoming as long as I can remember... and IMO this kind of feature would destroy the profession. Simply because reputation is made by one sticking to their word. Governing descision making with a UI is a bad move. >>> TRIBUTE TO A FALLEN WINGMAN <<<

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