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Daughter's Farmer
0
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Posted - 2012.01.26 17:54:00 -
[1] - Quote
Before we start talk about what Escort carrier in eve should be lets look at a Typical (yet generalized) Escort carrier used in WW2.
Weakness to the design if Escort-Carrier
Modify cheap ship with limited capabilities Limited speed : then to slow down fleet and is often reallocated to escorting transport ship. Limited capacity: can't hold many fighter and capacity to do maintenance is limited if in fleet: escort carrier fighter used in defense matter to protect carriers fleets that have deployed all they fighter in a offensive tactics
Advantages: Cheap compare to a carrier
Flavor texte: Caldary state: Response to SANSHA INVASION, with main fleet protecting the border there was a new niche created with the Sansha invasion that are skipping border defence with wormhole. It was proposed to use (in creative way) those large fleets of outdated scorpion design in the scrap yard. It was thought that using 2 strip out hull of scorpion could free enough space for a few fighters. Many design concession was made to keep the price tag low since no funds are available to create this support fleet.
Tech 3 CPU similar to battleship (thus no drone control unit) Effective HP should be double of battleship(ex: scorpion) but with double signature radius (to create a weaknees to dreadnoughts) Volume: 2,750,000.00 m3 (can't fit supercarrier)
High slot: 4 no turret no missile pod
Med slot 4
Low Slot 2
Rigs: 3 Slot: 400 calibration
Skill bonus
Carrier: Can fit one caldary fighter per level (special launcher ramp ignore drone bay size) 20% bonus to drone upgrade
Battleship: 15% damage bonus heavy and sentry drones 15% bonus to logistic & electronic warfare drone effectiveness
target range 35km (due to interference from twin warp engine)
Drone bay size 400 square metre
+2 warp strength due to twin warp engine Warp: 0.85 AU/S (safety lock down to prevent ship ripping in 2 pieces)
Note: I would have attached a pic of the design but it seems I am as much Lazy as the forum design, so not gonna into the trouble of external link when I could just attach low rez pic like in many forums
P.S. constructive criticism is required |

Khrage
90
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Posted - 2012.01.26 18:10:00 -
[2] - Quote
Daughter's Farmer wrote:P.S. constructive criticism is required
good luck with that. |

Michus Danether
Immortalis Silens Intrepid Crossing
15
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Posted - 2012.01.26 20:28:00 -
[3] - Quote
Okay so the initial presentation was a bit muddled but I wonder if the OP has the right general idea?
There is a big jump between battleships and carriers and not much in the way of intermediate ship classes unlike the frig->destroyer->cruiser->battlecruiser->battleship thing we have at the moment. A 'battle carrier' or something might be interesting? I dunno. Something somebody should think about. |

mxzf
Shovel Bros
391
|
Posted - 2012.01.26 20:36:00 -
[4] - Quote
Sounds semi decent, not as bad and OP as some of them that I've seen. I doubt it'll make it into the game, but I do like the idea of a step between Domi/Rattler and Carrier somewhere in the middle.
One thing though, if English isn't your first language, please don't try and write flavor text, it's just painful to read. |

Whiteknight03
WESAYSO Industries
28
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Posted - 2012.01.26 21:00:00 -
[5] - Quote
Your presentation could use a bit of work, but otherwise the idea sounds somewhat decent. An Orca sized combat ship would certainly be interesting. Perhaps giving these Escort Carriers 4-5 high slots, with 4 unbonuse Large guns/missiles could provide some more options? I'm imagining something designed for roaming far away from it's base for a while, to better respond to threats where ever they appear.
The main problem is, of course, that one should not obsolete battleships with these changes. I like your suggestion of higher sig radius, but double a BS's ehp would probably make them too tough. With a large sig, they're weak to the new T3's, as well as stealthbombers.
Also, a good sized cargohold or maybe even a small (2500m3?) corp hangar could provide interesting new options for supporting fleets.
|

Maluscious Melody
Frequent Moose
6
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Posted - 2012.01.27 11:43:00 -
[6] - Quote
Erm, so basically you want a warp stabbed fighter spewing Caldari Domi that can carry 5 fighters with a huge ECM drone buff but reduced slot layout? |

Patient 2428190
DEGRREE'Fo'FREE Internet Business School
27
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Posted - 2012.01.27 11:59:00 -
[7] - Quote
Built in stabs on a combat capable ship = massive fail
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Rel'k Bloodlor
Mecha Enterprises Fleet
104
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Posted - 2012.01.27 12:01:00 -
[8] - Quote
Tho I'm not for this, I do want some gaps in ship types closed. Ships frigg to tier one BC have roles, and that style of fleet needs ships to take on roles with in it.
Tier2 and BS are looser able to usually cover 2 rolls and .5 a third one (like tackle).
After that huge gap and dreds and carriers, one has a roll and can fight some other things ok, the other has like 3 rolls it dose well at the same time.
Then gap supers and titans, witch do death star and little star Base that moves stuff. Not really a roll other than battle field supremacy.
They may be could fill in some of it. Those holes. I am in Factional Warfare. Have been from day one.-á-áI will never work for a mega corp in null-sec. Do not make FW like null-sec.-áMake FW worth our time. Reword us for what we already do.Give us some more activities to do. |

Vicky Somers
Rusty Anchor
0
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Posted - 2012.01.27 12:51:00 -
[9] - Quote
So you essentially want to duct tape two scorpions together to create a sub capital carrier? |

Christine Peeveepeeski
Killing With Kindness The Obsidian Front
44
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Posted - 2012.01.27 13:53:00 -
[10] - Quote
You know, the idea is sound.. his implementation of it would be bad.
Something that can use up to 5 fighters, has the ehp of a decently tanked BS, can't jump and can use gates would actually be quite cool.
Not sure how I'd balance it though, problem being that isk does not balance ships really because you'll get alliances that just roll with 'lets take 500 of them'.
It'd be a nice hop on the long train to getting a carrier at any rate.
I don't know.... sounds cool, just not sure it'd work in EVE. |
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Marcus Henik
Dark Nebula Academy O X I D E
6
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Posted - 2012.01.27 14:13:00 -
[11] - Quote
Like the concept, but think it should be a freighter hull to stay more in line with the general idea of a ww2 escort. Perhaps a converted orca? Put it in the same speed catagory or a little faster. |

Bent Barrel
20
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Posted - 2012.01.27 14:21:00 -
[12] - Quote
I am all for the sentry bonuses. double the drone bay please :-) maybe it could get +1 drone controlled per level instead of the fighter bonus. not exactly a carrier but enough DPS to be noticed in a fight especialy with 10 sentries out.
maybe a combat refited Orca hull would make sense for this.
however I am missing the fighter bay numbers :-) |

Hrett
Quantum Cats Syndicate
38
|
Posted - 2012.01.27 14:34:00 -
[13] - Quote
I dunno, i kinda like the general idea.
Have to make their bonuses so they are a true support ship though. No offensive or defensive capabilities other than the fighters and maybe a drone bay and bandwidth for a flight of light or mediums. Make them expensive, and paper thin (maybe 2x battleship ehp) and slow.
Bonus to Racial remote repair Bonus to Racial self repair +1 fighter per level. Can only hold 5 fighters max.
Give them a ship hanger that can carry up to 4 fitted frigs, or two fitted cruisers. Give them a small maintenence bay that allows refitting/resupply of ships.
It would have to be escorted by support ships or a dead duck. Useful for escorting/supporting small fleets in hostile space. Perhaps give it a really weak capacitor so it has to fit cap boosters to run its tank/RR or during sustained warping. That would give it a 'supply' limitation so it cant stay out unsupported indefinately.
A escort or scout carrier would be fun. would be great for small scale territorial wars. Make em really expensive so they dont blot out the sun. |

Proteus Maximus
Drunken Old Farts Innovia Alliance
53
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Posted - 2012.01.27 14:44:00 -
[14] - Quote
I respond to this thread every time with the same correction. Flack turrets only capable of defeating a % of incoming missiles ans a wall of damage a friget can penetrate with moderate damage. Drones should be tracking dissruption, neutralizing ans sensor dampening. The ship should be able to project an emergency defense bubble not unlike a poss shield at a huge fuel expence with a duration of 5 minutes & a 20 minutes recovery. Shields may not be deployed with in 20k of one another & not cover am area greater than 10 k. Eve... Burn it....Burn it All |

stoicfaux
697
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Posted - 2012.01.27 14:59:00 -
[15] - Quote
A high-sec baby carrier that can assign fighters to mission runners? The number of alt accounts it would create would make CCP dance for joy (and drive plex prices up.)
You can tell me what is and isn't Truth when you pry the tinfoil from my cold, lifeless head.
|

Hidden Snake
Inglorious-Basterds
93
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Posted - 2012.01.27 15:18:00 -
[16] - Quote
stoicfaux wrote:A high-sec baby carrier that can assign fighters to mission runners? The number of alt accounts it would create would make CCP dance for joy (and drive plex prices up.)
Well station gaming thrown to another level ...   IBS recruiting >>> http://ingloriousbs.wordpress.com -á>>> questionable ethics >>> tears >>> happy snakes>>>frog cocktails free>>>free ****>>>????
Public ch.: Basterds on vacation-á |

Wacktopia
Noir.
149
|
Posted - 2012.01.27 15:26:00 -
[17] - Quote
Daughter's Farmer wrote:+2 warp strength due to twin warp engine
You get your carrier tackled and ganked or something?...
Apparently we're getting censored now. |

Vicky Somers
Rusty Anchor
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.27 18:43:00 -
[18] - Quote
Instead of taping two scorpions together, perhaps a more realistic explanation would be a on Orca modified for battle. Kind of like the Minmatar version of pimp my ride. |

Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
184
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Posted - 2012.01.28 11:44:00 -
[19] - Quote
Patient 2428190 wrote:Built in stabs on a combat capable ship = massive fail
Ever heard of supercaps?  |

Hound Halfhand
Mom 'n' Pop Ammo Shoppe R.E.P.O.
5
|
Posted - 2012.01.28 15:21:00 -
[20] - Quote
Christine Peeveepeeski wrote:You know, the idea is sound.. his implementation of it would be bad.
Something that can use up to 5 fighters, has the ehp of a decently tanked BS, can't jump and can use gates would actually be quite cool.
Not sure how I'd balance it though, problem being that isk does not balance ships really because you'll get alliances that just roll with 'lets take 500 of them'.
It'd be a nice hop on the long train to getting a carrier at any rate.
I don't know.... sounds cool, just not sure it'd work in EVE.
I agree. 1 fighter per skill level and some kind of fleet roll that does not involve remote repairing. I was thinking that maybe it can fit 7 or 8 small turrets/launchers and get a bonus to tracking/optimal (similar to the guys flak suggestion above me). Would be good against small ships but not battlecruisers and battleships. Also its bonuses would revolve around projected ECCM, remote sensor boosters, remote sensor dampening, etc. Also possibly 5 drones in addition to 5 fighters also it should have a hell of a tank. It should be T2, size/mass of the Orca but heavily modified hull, uses jumpgates, not cynos and more expensive than a marauder or faction battleship. Really skill intensive, give something real for 100m sp guys to train for.
On a side note, make it something a dreadnought can easily track and hit, at the same time improving the dreadnought's roll.
Again, EVE players have been asking for the "Escort Carriers" for years and it is probably something CCP wants to look into. Probably the most desired next ship after the "T3 frigates". |
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Death Toll007
Fleet of Doom Psychotic Tendencies.
25
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Posted - 2012.01.28 16:29:00 -
[21] - Quote
The ship concept in history was to create something that was not as good as the real thing, but could sort of do it for a cheap price tag and in quick fashion. Usually old warship or transport ship hulls.
Therefore it should be 1. Racial specific 2. Not as good as a carrier by any strech. 3. Better than a BS, because BS were susceptible to them in conflict. 4. Cheap price tag, say about 30% more than a tier 3 BS?
Forget the orca... use the freighters as mentioned earlier in the post.
They have the hitpoints he recommends, strip the cargo bay for drone bay, and add visible openings to the models on their cargo bays to identify as fighter bays. If all five fighters are fit, then only about 150-250m3 should remain for other drones.
Like the flavor of limited fitting, but go 4/4/4 +2 appropriate for race(can be split). Prevents overtaking BS, and ensures role fitting.
Add maintenance bay, fuel bay for triage, and small corp bay.
Role Bonus: Able to launch five fighters or ten drones. (allows limited offensive role). Capital remote repair and local repair systems are PG/CPU reduced to fit two appropriate for race, can fit triage (if triage is active can run two capital remote/ local repair mods stable [run the role bonus numbers to apply to cap usage of mods only during triage] otherwise Cap use of capital mod with cap of BS).
Racial Battleship skill: Same as racial carrier bonuses
Scan res of ship equivalent of racial carrier.
Targeting range equivalent of racial battleship.
HP about 2x BS.
Capacitor equivalent of battleship (forces triage to utilize capital remote repair role).
Maybe this: Cannot be rigged due to extensive modification of hull
-DT |

Ehn Roh
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
14
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Posted - 2012.01.28 20:39:00 -
[22] - Quote
Khrage wrote:Daughter's Farmer wrote:P.S. constructive criticism is required good luck with that.
And yet it happened anyways. I'm mildly surprised.
I like the general idea, and quite a few of the subsequent ideas.
|

Death Toll007
Fleet of Doom Psychotic Tendencies.
25
|
Posted - 2012.01.29 08:08:00 -
[23] - Quote
I wonder if any devs have read this thread :(
-DT |

Gellenter Pl
The Final Solution Inc. Exiled Ones
11
|
Posted - 2012.01.29 11:35:00 -
[24] - Quote
the idea of escort carrier is pretty awesome, but it will be hard to balance this class of ships. How strong should it be? Also racial specific bonus isn't good because of the differences between fighters. |

Omnathious Deninard
M'Tar Deadspace Guard Night Sky Alliance
13
|
Posted - 2012.01.30 03:21:00 -
[25] - Quote
Rather than a bonus to a racial fighter, you could add a role bonus of "+100% Fighter bandwith needs" limiting a player to 5 fighters or 10 drones |

Rel'k Bloodlor
Mecha Enterprises Fleet
109
|
Posted - 2012.01.30 04:55:00 -
[26] - Quote
I'm on the fence but a lot of the post so far have been just sad. Fighters cost a lot so 5 plus cargo would be a BS all buy its self in cost Can't assign fighters in .4 systems and up so the missioners can't use this in a ult assigning fighters to there main. The OMG WHATS WRONG on the forums the week after such a launch would be worth it breaking the game. But would break it at all? The place they would work best in is still low sec. And theres real carriers there. It would be cool to travel in gang tho. I am in Factional Warfare. Have been from day one.-á-áI will never work for a mega corp in null-sec. Do not make FW like null-sec.-áMake FW worth our time. Reword us for what we already do.Give us some more activities to do. |

To mare
Advanced Technology
16
|
Posted - 2012.01.30 06:48:00 -
[27] - Quote
Patient 2428190 wrote:Built in stabs on a combat capable ship = massive fail
yep we all know how much super carriers and titans are fail
|

Wyte Ragnarok
4
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 17:24:00 -
[28] - Quote
Heck. If this thing could use 10 drones, I'd skill up for this thing. It sounds awesome. Even if this "Escort Carrier" isn't implemented, CCP need to take a look at the massive gap between subcapital ships and capitals. And then again the massive gap between capitals and super caps (even though I doubt anything will be done with the latter).
Most subcapital pilots would fly with Battleship 4. For them to get into a capital (dread or carrier) then need the science and navigation skills, the Battleship 5, any associated drone/weapon skills AND capital repair systems and other capital skills. I would like to see this "Escort Carrier" or anything else that breaches the gap use subcapital modules (Large Armor Repair Systems, not Capital Armor Repair Systems).
The +2 warp strength is ********. You should make it so that if you commit this ship to a fight; you're staying there. That would be the whole point of it. I think this thing should require Battleship 5, just less requirements from the capital-like skills. Also, what would the highs do? Remote repair, gang assist mods, little flak turrets?
Anyway, love this idea! |

Rel'k Bloodlor
Mecha Enterprises Fleet Villore Accords
115
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 18:37:00 -
[29] - Quote
Well a fair trade for a mini carrier would be... Only one high slot or none.(the external ports are hard wired to allow fighters) Almost no structure, and only 50% or less of primary tank in off tank.(as most of the internal structure is need for "space" the fighters) Only 5 fighters(or less), and no ability to use Drone Control Units.
This should look like how an Orca is to a Rorqual. The one being better the other offering convenience. I am in Factional Warfare. Have been from day one.-á-áI will never work for a mega corp in null-sec. Do not make FW like null-sec.-áMake FW worth our time. Reword us for what we already do.Give us some more activities to do. |

Ahrieman
Heretic Army Heretic Nation
25
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 20:18:00 -
[30] - Quote
Patient 2428190 wrote:Built in stabs on a combat capable ship = massive fail
The minnie militia will blot out the sun with these I scam on my main |
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Trinkets friend
Obstergo NEM3SIS.
124
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 02:23:00 -
[31] - Quote
CCP does want to look into more variety in the capital class of ships (see last CSM minutes) so this is a valuable discussion to be having at this time.
I'm coming from the POV of wormhole dwellers here, so bear with.
An Escort Carrier is needed in w-space (as is a mini-dread, lets call it a Monitor) for several reasons, not least of which is that in low-end wormhole space it is prohibitively difficult to evict a well entrenched organisation, for several reasons. Firstly, you cannot easily get capital support to assault a POS, which means you see C1's with a dozen deathstarred large towers running massive lab operations, gas refining operations, etcetera. They do this because they know they are basically immune from eviction under normal circumstances.
Secondly, without a capital you rely on subcap fleets and this requires social engineering beyond the bounds of most corps - and then the residents will likely have the ISK resources from their rent-seeking to hire the appropriate coalition to defend themselves. This IS fun, mind you, and nothing wrong with that, but the hurdle of C1 mass restrictions presents barriers to assaulting POSs in them which are very steep indeed.
An ossified wormhole space is stagnant, stale, lame. So there's a role for a capital class ship which can enter low-end w-space (including C1's, mind you!) to throw the door open to conflict. This is where an escort carrier/monitor concept could come in.
As to the ship and its capabilities and restrictions, I think it should be similar to regular capitals regarding a restriction from entering highsec. The idea of an orca sized carrier with 5 fighters doesn't sit well for me in a hisec missioning context, because of the assigned fighters helping people pwn missions. Similarly, the metagame will see these ships proliferate and station humping mongoloids would camp Amarr EFA undock in a dramiel or Cynabal with 20 alts in escort carriers 30 AU away with 100 fighters assigned to them, and this would become riitard. No, no, no.
So, they must have a jump drive, and be restricted to lowsec, nullsec, and w-space. Or the CONCORD jammer effect should work similar to the bomb launcher on a SB, neutralising all your abilities and allowing you to transit without altering the state of play in hisec.
To throw C1's open to mini-capital assault, a module could be created which would allow them (and only them) to shave 80% off their mass to allow them to jump a C1 mass restriction - similar to the warp disruption generator's effect upon the HICtor. Lets call it a Graviton Flux Coil.
This of course then places an upper limit on the ship's mass to allow them to fit in a C1 (N110, J244, Z060 - but not the transient Z-class).
As for the capabilities, I think they need roughly BS sized tanks and active rep bonuses...though in the case of the Caldari and Amarr escort carriers you would have to provide for a significant passive tank. 250-350K EHP is fine, as is a 1100-1500DPS active tank without crazy faction gear - allowing them to survive a significant amount of punishment but still be vulnerable to a BS once they cap out. Or a small gang of cruiser/BC's/T3's.
I agree with their aility to have a fitting service, a ship maintenance bay and corporate hangar array. Size thereof? Well, not big enough to pack a BS, maybe 2-3 BC's and that's it. This will allow them to work as cloaky logistic bases inside w-space and k-space, and allow people to store a limited selection of PVP ships to swap out of scanning frigates. This is the role played by the Orca currently, so its nothing new - you'd just get a handful of fighters to deploy.
As for what they should fit...no capital RRs. To suggest that they should fit capital RRs would see them be able to spider tank inordinate amounts of damage, just like cap ships, or tank 40K DPS like a carrier can do in Triage. This would be broken, even if you could neut them to death faster.
They should, however, be able to fit at least two large smartbombs, or 3 large remote reps, or 3 heavy neut/NOS, plus drone links, to give them the flexibility to defend themselves. So, 4 high slots.
Tank wise, you need a 5 or 6 slot tank. This would see, for instance, a 6 mid, 3 low Caldari slot layout, a 5/4 Minnie, a 3/6 Amarr and a 4/5 Gallente. You will of course see the mids filled with prop mods, ECCM's, heavy cap boosters, perhaps even webs/points. eg, a 3 midslot Amarr ship would have ECCM, cap booster, TP or MWD // 2 x EANM's, Explo Hardener, 2 x LAR, DCU 5 midslot minnie would have 2 Invul, XL booster, Cap booster, ECCM or MWD // DCU, CPRs, nano (lol) 4 Midslot Gallente would have cap booster, ECCM, web, MWD // DCU, EANM, Explo Hardener, 2 LARs 6 midslot Caldari would have: 3 x LSE, 2 x Invul, MWD // DCU, 2 SPR's
Remember with 5 fighters you'll only be pushing 500DPS, so either a fighter DPS bonus would be needed or you'd need to envisage doing 1000DPS with heavy drones or sentries - which means a 100% drone DPS bonus. Which is fine - a ship of this size should dish out more DPS than a HAC or a destroyer, but not eclipse a BS.
I'm torn on whether they should be able to Triage. I wouldn't want to see them muscle in on the territory of Logistic ships, because then you'd have a situation where people would deploy these for logistics operations because they'd be impossible to alpha. Thus, triage rep bonuses and logistic ship rep range would be dangerous things to give a ship with +100K EHP. Three normal RR's, however, would be fine. You'd have to form a mini-carrier ball similar to a domiblob, and they can be taken out pretty easily these days.
Just my 2c The skilful employer of men will employ the wise man, the brave man, the covetous man, and the stupid man. Sun Tzu @trinketsfriend on twatter
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Dbars Grinding
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
346
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 03:38:00 -
[32] - Quote
sure why not |

Emiko Luan
Ekchuah's Shrine Comporium
27
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 03:40:00 -
[33] - Quote
I'd love a logistics battleship. +welcome to my world+ http://venomzer0.deviantart.com |

Ahrieman
Heretic Army Heretic Nation
26
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 04:24:00 -
[34] - Quote
Emiko Luan wrote:I'd love a logistics battleship.
This is good since fights with logi's right now are too fast and it's too easy to kill ships when only 3 cruiser sized logi's are spider tanking  I scam on my main |

Rel'k Bloodlor
Mecha Enterprises Fleet Villore Accords
119
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 06:49:00 -
[35] - Quote
Trinkets friend wrote:As to the ship and its capabilities and restrictions, I think it should be similar to regular capitals regarding a restriction from entering highsec. The idea of an orca sized carrier with 5 fighters doesn't sit well for me in a hisec missioning context, because of the assigned fighters helping people pwn missions. Similarly, the metagame will see these ships proliferate and station humping mongoloids would camp Amarr EFA undock in a dramiel or Cynabal with 20 alts in escort carriers 30 AU away with 100 fighters assigned to them, and this would become riitard. No, no, no.
Na make them orca sized and use gates so us not WH people can have a ship that moves with gang and "escorts". No need to frett about fighters, can't assign them in .4's and up so the only way to use it would be to take it in the mission or have it on the station, putting it at risk. Also you can only have your drone level - the number of drones your curently control out at any time. So max 5. I am in Factional Warfare. Have been from day one.-á-áI will never work for a mega corp in null-sec. Do not make FW like null-sec.-áMake FW worth our time. Reword us for what we already do.Give us some more activities to do. |

Rhianna Ghost
Eagle Technologies Avateas Blessed
12
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 07:22:00 -
[36] - Quote
Another possibility of avoiding nasty ganking scenarios would be:
Concord assumes damage done by the fighters to be done by the Escort Carrier. So, if expensive enough, (assuming pricing in the area of an Orca) there would have to be pretty expensive stuff shipped out to be worth using it that way.
Leaves the possibility of using them in missions. Not a good idea either. To make fighters only assignable in .4 and down seems the best solution to that, honestly. |

Rel'k Bloodlor
Mecha Enterprises Fleet Villore Accords
119
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 07:39:00 -
[37] - Quote
Rhianna Ghost wrote:Another possibility of avoiding nasty ganking scenarios would be:
Concord assumes damage done by the fighters to be done by the Escort Carrier. So, if expensive enough, (assuming pricing in the area of an Orca) there would have to be pretty expensive stuff shipped out to be worth using it that way.
Leaves the possibility of using them in missions. Not a good idea either. To make fighters only assignable in .4 and down seems the best solution to that, honestly.
No thats already how it IS now! You can't assign fighters in .4 and up. So the ship itself would have to agress to use fighters in hi sec. I am in Factional Warfare. Have been from day one.-á-áI will never work for a mega corp in null-sec. Do not make FW like null-sec.-áMake FW worth our time. Reword us for what we already do.Give us some more activities to do. |

AstarothPrime
Eternal Profiteers Eternal Syndicate
5
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 11:59:00 -
[38] - Quote
stoicfaux wrote:A high-sec baby carrier that can assign fighters to mission runners? The number of alt accounts it would create would make CCP dance for joy (and drive plex prices up.)
One word:
NO !!!
I. |

Rel'k Bloodlor
Mecha Enterprises Fleet Villore Accords
119
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 13:00:00 -
[39] - Quote
AstarothPrime wrote:stoicfaux wrote:A high-sec baby carrier that can assign fighters to mission runners? The number of alt accounts it would create would make CCP dance for joy (and drive plex prices up.)
One word: NO !!! I.
also face palm*
it would for like a day cause a huge spike in alts ....then the forums would light on fire as people in he-sec that have never used a carrier find out that you cant asign fighters in .4's and up and assinged fighters count twards your drone control cap. Then I would feast apon there pain and buy all the hulls at 1/2 price.
so to recap-can't asign in hi sec, can only have 5 on you and no drones, they do slightly more than oger II's
The REAL power would be in having that ship in fleets and moving with them through gates. If you make it jump only you just get a bad wanna be carrier.
I am in Factional Warfare. Have been from day one.-á-áI will never work for a mega corp in null-sec. Do not make FW like null-sec.-áMake FW worth our time. Reword us for what we already do.Give us some more activities to do. |

Arazel Chainfire
Sons Of 0din Fatal Ascension
72
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 13:26:00 -
[40] - Quote
Also, even if you could assign fighters in .4 and up, fighters can't pass acceleration gates. And if you actually take one into a site... 5 unbonused fighters (aka, fighters from anything other than a thanny) do all of 500dps. If the ship can use fighters, but doesn't have highslots for other things, a domi will still outdps it.
Personally, what I would want to see from an escort carrier is to have it be a t2 battleship off the teir 3 hulls. Same resist bonus as either the blackops or marauder (to prevent it from being too OP). Battleship bonuses would be the current teir 3's tanking bonus (either resist or self rep) and 40% to RR range per level. This would give RR's a max range of 27km, leaving logi's with significantly more range AND significantly more maneuverability to preserve their role. T2 bonuses would be 20% to RR amount, and can use +1 fighter per level or something like that. 4 highs, no gun/missiles, same mids and lows as current teir 3 BS's, no bonuses to cap usage, meaning that ships have to really gimp their fit to be able to run 4 reps, but can all run 2 without too much in the way of sacrifices. Dedicated fighter bay and drone bay.
-Arazel |
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Caius Sivaris
Dark Nexxus S I L E N T.
33
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 13:46:00 -
[41] - Quote
Wyte Ragnarok wrote: CCP need to take a look at the massive gap between subcapital ships and capitals.
What gap? Top of the line subcaps (Blackops, Marauders) are actually more expensive than a carrier and if you can fly either you're less than a month away from flying a carrier/dread respectively. |

Rel'k Bloodlor
Mecha Enterprises Fleet Villore Accords
119
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 14:10:00 -
[42] - Quote
Caius Sivaris wrote:Wyte Ragnarok wrote: CCP need to take a look at the massive gap between subcapital ships and capitals.
What gap? Top of the line subcaps (Blackops, Marauders) are actually more expensive than a carrier and if you can fly either you're less than a month away from flying a carrier/dread respectively.
A) Talking about hull size performance, role, and capabilities not price. B) Not so much, I can fly a black ops now I'm several months from caps. I am in Factional Warfare. Have been from day one.-á-áI will never work for a mega corp in null-sec. Do not make FW like null-sec.-áMake FW worth our time. Reword us for what we already do.Give us some more activities to do. |

Caius Sivaris
Dark Nexxus S I L E N T.
33
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 14:50:00 -
[43] - Quote
Rel'k Bloodlor wrote:Caius Sivaris wrote:Wyte Ragnarok wrote: CCP need to take a look at the massive gap between subcapital ships and capitals.
What gap? Top of the line subcaps (Blackops, Marauders) are actually more expensive than a carrier and if you can fly either you're less than a month away from flying a carrier/dread respectively. A) Talking about hull size performance, role, and capabilities not price.
The carrier is a convenient ship mover, but save that it's just a slow moving, easy to hit logistic ship bringing BC class DPS (practical, fighters miss a lot), that DPS being pretty easy to pop and costing a fortune to the owner.
Quote: B) Not so much, I can fly a black ops now I'm several months from caps.
That must be flying that black ops at an awfully inadequate skill level. The only black ops that would somewhat excuse not having Drone Interfacing 5 is the Widow, save that skill a black op pilot should only have Advanced Spaceship Command 5 to train (two to three weeks) then a few more days days for Capital Ships 3, the carrier skills and some level of capital mods. if you are months away there is something pretty wrong. |

Pinky Denmark
The Cursed Navy Important Internet Spaceship League
80
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 15:26:00 -
[44] - Quote
The carriers are already Escort Carriers however with a tweak as logistic platform...  |

Gazmin VanBurin
The Tower Of Nevaurus The 99 Percent
60
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 16:37:00 -
[45] - Quote
Caius Sivaris wrote: That must be flying that black ops at an awfully inadequate skill level. The only black ops that would somewhat excuse not having Drone Interfacing 5 is the Widow, save that skill a black op pilot should only have Advanced Spaceship Command 5 to train (two to three weeks) then a few more days days for Capital Ships 3, the carrier skills and some level of capital mods. if you are months away there is something pretty wrong.
if your only a month away from a carrier from a black ops, you must be planning on flying that carrier "at an awfully inadequate skill level" you have to train advanced space ship command to 5, carrier 4-5, all your capital repair and remote repair to 3-5 fighters to 3-4, and train logi 5 for triage. Its also good to make sure a handfull of suport skills are alittle hgiher than need be for a blops. Sure the jump drive skills save yu a bunch of time but its still 2-3 months after those to fly a carrier right.
Now for my opinion of a escort carrier, I think it shouldn't be allowed in high sec because even if not allowed to deploy drones it would just make station games even worse for bait or RR reasons. I like the idea of it being a modified orca or freighter. and yeah it should have around 300-400 ehp properly fit. I also like the idea of 5 fighters or 10 drones, aswell as having few fitting slots, like 3 highs, and a mix of 8 slots betweenthe mid and lows depending on race. price should be around 400mil. ill think of more stuff later. |

Gellenter Pl
The Final Solution Inc. Exiled Ones
11
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 17:15:00 -
[46] - Quote
And what CCP thinks about this idea? Whether any of the dev reads this? |

V'oba
The Kairos Syndicate Transmission Lost
12
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 18:09:00 -
[47] - Quote
I don't have the experience to comment on what the capabilities of this kind of ship should be, but just for the awesomeness-factor I want to suggest that these be T2 versions of Tier 3 Battleships.
I'm just imagining how cool T2 skins would look on abaddons/ hypes/ rohks/ maels. |

Silas Shaw
Coffee Hub
6
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 18:33:00 -
[48] - Quote
Hrett wrote:Give them a ship hanger that can carry up to 4 fitted frigs, or two fitted cruisers.
Make em really expensive so they dont blot out the sun.
See above: alliances/people that get 500 anythings as a "try it out in a blob" measure.
Also: "just how big is an unpacked frig or cruiser, anyway?" |

Gazmin VanBurin
The Tower Of Nevaurus The 99 Percent
60
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 19:00:00 -
[49] - Quote
Ah yes that was one of the main points i wanted to touch on, they shouldnt be made expensive, no more than 500 mil at them most, because everyone knows that price issent a factor for many null sec block and building a ship thats worth it.
They key is to give it as many weaknesses as it has strengths.
A - make it as slow as a frighter with gate jump ability and they will have to move them hours to the new attack location rather than jumping trough 3 cynos.
B - 10 drones or 5 fighters is great but we are talking on a ship that has a huge sig, slow as a snail, and only has the HP of 2-3 battle ships, without the amazing capital self rapiars and no capital rep chain amungs themselves, i see them dieign quite fast to stealth bombers under only a minet or two of fire.
C - have to travel in a gang because they are just to easy of targets by themselves, which gives small roaming gnags or blops gangs new targets to look for that cant just cyno away.
I would find it funny if they could fit 1 capital class gun for luls but I woud actualy rather see them get a bonus to smart bomb range or damage (since i wouldn't want them to have more than 3-4 highs anyway, and not want them in high sec)
D - maybe make them use some sort of special fule , or special ability that requires special fule so they would have to be more time consuming to manage (im all for making the new fule blocks good for other things like running special mods or ships |

Alain Badiou
Shinken Shobu
2
|
Posted - 2012.02.01 20:20:00 -
[50] - Quote
Death Toll007 wrote:The ship concept in history was to create something that was not as good as the real thing, but could sort of do it for a cheap price tag and in quick fashion. Usually old warship or transport ship hulls.
Therefore it should be 1. Racial specific 2. Not as good as a carrier by any strech. 3. Better than a BS, because BS were susceptible to them in conflict. 4. Cheap price tag, say about 30% more than a tier 3 BS?
Forget the orca... use the freighters as mentioned earlier in the post.
They have the hitpoints he recommends, strip the cargo bay for drone bay, and add visible openings to the models on their cargo bays to identify as fighter bays. If all five fighters are fit, then only about 150-250m3 should remain for other drones.
Like the flavor of limited fitting, but go 4/4/4 +2 appropriate for race(can be split). Prevents overtaking BS, and ensures role fitting.
Add maintenance bay, fuel bay for triage, and small corp bay.
Role Bonus: Able to launch five fighters or ten drones. (allows limited offensive role). Capital remote repair and local repair systems are PG/CPU reduced to fit two appropriate for race, can fit triage (if triage is active can run two capital remote/ local repair mods stable [run the role bonus numbers to apply to cap usage of mods only during triage] otherwise Cap use of capital mod with cap of BS).
Racial Battleship skill: Same as racial carrier bonuses
Scan res of ship equivalent of racial carrier.
Targeting range equivalent of racial battleship.
HP about 2x BS.
Capacitor equivalent of battleship (forces triage to utilize capital remote repair role).
Maybe this: Cannot be rigged due to extensive modification of hull
-DT
That was pretty well thought out (though I would keep it to just 5 drones or fighters). I support the above.
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Rel'k Bloodlor
Mecha Enterprises Fleet Villore Accords
120
|
Posted - 2012.02.02 08:40:00 -
[51] - Quote
OK my proposal (escort ships) New hull not a T2 They stay off the other caps turf, no triage or drone link, no logi bonus most of there HP in there races tank type, and almost no hull Can use gates bandwidth for 5 fighters or 10 drones. limited slot lay out and fittings.
Hear is my try at the Caldari one-
Karura
Hi-4 (3missile) Mid-5 Low-2 Rig-3/400 (large)
CPU-825 POW-9,750 Capacitor-18,500/recharge 15570s
Drone bandwidth-250 Drone bay-55,000 m3
Shield-55,500/recharge12500s Armour- 9,500 Structure- 5,000
Targeting range- 88k Scan Resolution-185 mm Gravimetric Sensor Strength-64 points Signature Radius- 745m
Corp hanger-5,000 m3 Maintenance bay-550,000 m3
Max Velocity- 75 m/sec Inertia Modifier- 0.075 Mass-390,000,000 kg Capacity 725 m3 Warp speed- 3 au
Roll bonus
75% reduction in duration and liquid ozone consumption for cynosural field generation 50% increase to shield booster repairer amount and capacitor use 200% bonus to Fighter control range Can deploy 5 additional drones
Escort bonuses
5% bonus to all Shield resistances per level 10% bonus to fighter and drone tracking, optimal range and max velocity per level I am in Factional Warfare. Have been from day one.-á-áI will never work for a mega corp in null-sec. Do not make FW like null-sec.-áMake FW worth our time. Reword us for what we already do.Give us some more activities to do. |

apAzed
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
1
|
Posted - 2012.02.02 10:08:00 -
[52] - Quote
Hound Halfhand wrote:Christine Peeveepeeski wrote:You know, the idea is sound.. his implementation of it would be bad.
Something that can use up to 5 fighters, has the ehp of a decently tanked BS, can't jump and can use gates would actually be quite cool.
Not sure how I'd balance it though, problem being that isk does not balance ships really because you'll get alliances that just roll with 'lets take 500 of them'.
It'd be a nice hop on the long train to getting a carrier at any rate.
I don't know.... sounds cool, just not sure it'd work in EVE. I agree. 1 fighter per skill level and some kind of fleet roll that does not involve remote repairing. I was thinking that maybe it can fit 7 or 8 small turrets/launchers and get a bonus to tracking/optimal (similar to the guys flak suggestion above me). Would be good against small ships but not battlecruisers and battleships. Also its bonuses would revolve around projected ECCM, remote sensor boosters, remote sensor dampening, etc. Also possibly 5 drones in addition to 5 fighters also it should have a hell of a tank. It should be T2, size/mass of the Orca but heavily modified hull, uses jumpgates, not cynos and more expensive than a marauder or faction battleship. Really skill intensive, give something real for 100m sp guys to train for. On a side note, make it something a dreadnought can easily track and hit, at the same time improving the dreadnought's roll. Again, EVE players have been asking for the "Escort Carriers" for years and it is probably something CCP wants to look into. Probably the most desired next ship after the "T3 frigates".
Making them more expensive than marauder would be a bad idea, as people would just go with normal carriers, except for high sec wars, that is. Instead, make them as expensive than the orca, and more focused on solo work. We already have carriers which generally fulfil the role of an oversized logi - there is no need for more. |

Caius Sivaris
Dark Nexxus S I L E N T.
33
|
Posted - 2012.02.02 10:38:00 -
[53] - Quote
Rel'k Bloodlor wrote: Hear is my try at the Caldari one-
Karura
Hi-4 (3missile) Mid-5 Low-3 Rig-3/400 (large)
CPU-825 POW-7,750 Capacitor-18,500/recharge 15570s
Drone bandwidth-250 Drone bay-55,000 m3
Shield-57,500/recharge12500s Armour- 9,500 Structure- 5,000
Targeting range- 88k Scan Resolution-185 mm Gravimetric Sensor Strength-64 points Signature Radius- 745m
Corp hanger-5,000 m3 Maintenance bay-550,000 m3
Max Velocity- 75 m/sec Inertia Modifier- 0.075 Mass-390,000,000 kg Capacity 725 m3 Warp speed- 3 au
Roll bonuses
75% reduction in duration and liquid ozone consumption for cynosural field generation 50% increase to shield booster repairer amount and capacitor use 200% bonus to Fighter control range Can deploy 5 additional drones
Escort bonuses
5% bonus to all Shield resistances per level 10% bonus to fighter and drone tracking, optimal range and max velocity per level
So no useful bonus, pitiful DPS, just good at being a brick. Those would only be used in station games, like we need more of those. |

Vicky Somers
Rusty Anchor
3
|
Posted - 2012.02.02 11:49:00 -
[54] - Quote
Trinkets friend made a pretty good point on page 2. In reply to his idea of having a mini-carrier / dread for POS bashing in C1/C2 wormholes I'm guess this is a role that could be added to a T2 battleship like black ops by use of a mini-siege mode like module. For 5 or 10 minutes they get a boost to their damage output OR give the fleet a boost so that all large weapons do something like 400% more dps. To balance things out their tracking and/or explosion radius is completely crippled and they can't receive any RR but get a resistance bonus or slight boost in local rep. Thus turning all battleships/tier 3 BCs into mini-dreads that still need support to stay alive.
The mini-siege mod cannot be activated in high sec. |

Carniflex
StarHunt Broken Toys
10
|
Posted - 2012.02.02 12:34:00 -
[55] - Quote
In my opinion the "escort carriers" are the regular carriers in current EVE. The "true carriers" are the super-moms in the current EVE.
That out of the way I'm not against the idea of some kind of "escort carrier" altho - in my oopinion the easiest part would be removal of jump drive from a carrier and just castrating it somewhat. Like, for example, orca against roqual. So these "escort carriers" would be sort of the same as Orcas are to Roquals. |

Gazmin VanBurin
The Tower Of Nevaurus The 99 Percent
61
|
Posted - 2012.02.02 15:58:00 -
[56] - Quote
Carniflex wrote:In my opinion the "escort carriers" are the regular carriers in current EVE. The "true carriers" are the super-moms in the current EVE.
That out of the way I'm not against the idea of some kind of "escort carrier" altho - in my oopinion the easiest part would be removal of jump drive from a carrier and just castrating it somewhat. Like, for example, orca against roqual. So these "escort carriers" would be sort of the same as Orcas are to Roquals.
yeah i think thats the general idea, a mini carrier that cant jump trough a cyno, can use gates, less skill intensive, les ehp, less fitting grid and slots. |

Kn1v3s 999
Insurgent New Eden Tribe RAZOR Alliance
24
|
Posted - 2012.02.02 16:42:00 -
[57] - Quote
Yup, that' s what EVE need, moar capital ships
/thread |

Gazmin VanBurin
The Tower Of Nevaurus The 99 Percent
62
|
Posted - 2012.02.02 17:22:00 -
[58] - Quote
with out the ability to jump its more like a expensive fat dominix than a capital |

Omnathious Deninard
M'Tar Deadspace Guard Night Sky Alliance
14
|
Posted - 2012.02.02 20:51:00 -
[59] - Quote
If you want an oversized logi, then request carriers be allowed back in highsec, but with that dreadnoughts would also need to be allowed back in, though I would restrict siege and triage modules to security less than. 5, other wise make it a combat oreinted carrier for high sec. HP 2-3x battle ship as was said before. 4 high, 11 mid/low slots devided per race. 15% drone damage increase 10% drone HP and maybe resistance bonus for the ship. 1 additonal drone per level. Bandwith 250. Drone bay around 3000 and a special fighter bay of 25000. No turret or launchers. Role bonus of +100% fighter bandwith needs (this prevents launching 5 fighters and 5 web drones) size and sig should be that of an orca. |

The Ratface
Cold Moon Destruction
0
|
Posted - 2012.02.02 23:25:00 -
[60] - Quote
I see an easy solution to this (well, for us not really for CCP)
Just introduce Tech 3 battleships and have subsystems capable of turning it into a mini dread or carrier allowed in highsec. Make the carrier a middle ground between logis and carriers rep wise and maybe half the fighter power of a carrier. Make the dread subsystem give it the ability to fit a mini siege module that gives it a large bonus to large weapon damage but a tracking penalty just like a dread so it can only hit other sieged or triaged T3 and structures as well as capitals.
Obviously these would be fairly expensive since its Tech 3 but the ability to bring it into highsec and the fact that it has a variety of things it can do would make it worth the extra cost. |
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Trinkets friend
Obstergo NEM3SIS.
126
|
Posted - 2012.02.03 06:26:00 -
[61] - Quote
Caius Sivaris wrote:Wyte Ragnarok wrote: CCP need to take a look at the massive gap between subcapital ships and capitals.
What gap? Top of the line subcaps (Blackops, Marauders) are actually more expensive than a carrier and if you can fly either you're less than a month away from flying a carrier/dread respectively.
LOLwut? Nubian, please, you have no idea.
I have, currently, 79M SP's in subcaps, including BLOPs 5, 2 races BS5, 3 races cruiser 5, 13M missile SP's, large hybrid and projectiles 5, jump cal 4 and ofc the requisite nav skills to get into a black ops.
I've just started training capitals (saw no point in building a 1B asset which would be stranded or die lurking wormholes) and one and a half months in, I will still not undock my Niddy for love nor money because I'm so horribly crap with it its embarassing.
Fighter 5 is another month off, minnie carrier 5 a month after that. So I don't know what crack pipe you are smoking, but its probably one which makes you think that undocking with level 2 skills across the board in a carrier is a Good Thing TM. The skilful employer of men will employ the wise man, the brave man, the covetous man, and the stupid man. Sun Tzu @trinketsfriend on twatter
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Rel'k Bloodlor
Mecha Enterprises Fleet Villore Accords
122
|
Posted - 2012.02.03 06:52:00 -
[62] - Quote
Caius Sivaris wrote:Rel'k Bloodlor wrote: Hear is my try at the Caldari one-
Karura
Hi-4 (3missile) Mid-5 Low-3 Rig-3/400 (large)
CPU-825 POW-7,750 Capacitor-18,500/recharge 15570s
Drone bandwidth-250 Drone bay-55,000 m3
Shield-57,500/recharge12500s Armour- 9,500 Structure- 5,000
Targeting range- 88k Scan Resolution-185 mm Gravimetric Sensor Strength-64 points Signature Radius- 745m
Corp hanger-5,000 m3 Maintenance bay-550,000 m3
Max Velocity- 75 m/sec Inertia Modifier- 0.075 Mass-390,000,000 kg Capacity 725 m3 Warp speed- 3 au
Roll bonuses
75% reduction in duration and liquid ozone consumption for cynosural field generation 50% increase to shield booster repairer amount and capacitor use 200% bonus to Fighter control range Can deploy 5 additional drones
Escort bonuses
5% bonus to all Shield resistances per level 10% bonus to fighter and drone tracking, optimal range and max velocity per level
So no useful bonus, pitiful DPS, just good at being a brick. Those would only be used in station games, like we need more of those.
Well its Orca sized/mass/price so Logi stuff seams a waste, 10 sentry's with range and tracking bonuses Isn't that bad for a hull that could also assist you with 10 drones.
The point of the hull was to give players a lighter faster carrier. I went defence because its the caldari hull. I think you just under value what a corp hanger, 10 drones assisting your ceptor, and fighters chasing falcons will bring to low/null/WH roams.
Any thing that can tank well for 60 sec will be used in station games, so what? I am in Factional Warfare. Have been from day one.-á-áI will never work for a mega corp in null-sec. Do not make FW like null-sec.-áMake FW worth our time. Reword us for what we already do.Give us some more activities to do. |

Caius Sivaris
Dark Nexxus S I L E N T.
34
|
Posted - 2012.02.06 17:34:00 -
[63] - Quote
Trinkets friend wrote:Caius Sivaris wrote:Wyte Ragnarok wrote: CCP need to take a look at the massive gap between subcapital ships and capitals.
What gap? Top of the line subcaps (Blackops, Marauders) are actually more expensive than a carrier and if you can fly either you're less than a month away from flying a carrier/dread respectively. LOLwut? Nubian, please, you have no idea. I have, currently, 79M SP's in subcaps, including BLOPs 5, 2 races BS5, 3 races cruiser 5, 13M missile SP's, large hybrid and projectiles 5, jump cal 4 and ofc the requisite nav skills to get into a black ops. I've just started training capitals (saw no point in building a 1B asset which would be stranded or die lurking wormholes) and one and a half months in, I will still not undock my Niddy for love nor money because I'm so horribly crap with it its embarassing. Fighter 5 is another month off, minnie carrier 5 a month after that. So I don't know what crack pipe you are smoking, but its probably one which makes you think that undocking with level 2 skills across the board in a carrier is a Good Thing TM.
I said flying not flying well, but an "all cap skills at level 4" carrier is not that long for a good logi/blops pilot. Tbh unless you plan for a super Fighter 5 is a thing to train if you are out of ideas, you'll do pitiful dps either way (or none at all if in triage), and that's not your main role anyway. Carrier 5 otoh is an awesome skill.
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Razgriz20
The Industrialized Midgets of New Eden
0
|
Posted - 2012.02.06 20:04:00 -
[64] - Quote
So isn't that what the regular carrier is when it is in a fleet with a supercarrier? |
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