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Illaria
POS War Deserters
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Posted - 2007.10.29 11:21:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Illaria on 29/10/2007 11:20:51 Dear CAOD reader,
you've probably read about Goons and even more from Goons, but all these sources show a terrible lack of comprehension for the "Goon situation" that dominates so much of EVE politics for so many months now. As I have said in my The common grunt in the Great War article I had the opportunity to study the Goons for a good two months in their natural habitat, much like Jane Goodall studied primates by living among them.
Recently the Goons posted a Response to the Vaccum video of BoB announcing the retreat from three regions in the south. This response video was interesting, as it was one of the rare occasions of Goons trying to explain themselves. This self explanation contains some truths but carries also the taste of cheap excuses. It's the topic of this post to shed light onto Goons and their relationship with the rest of the EVE community.
"We are the monsters you created..." This sentence from the aforementioned Response vid, embodies, more than anything else ever said and written, the very core of the Goon self-conception.
Goons see themselves, as well as Red Alliance, as victims of the EVE community. Shunned, harassed, hunted to the brink of extinction, they don't feel like paying respect to enemies, that have never granted it themselves. They are ruthless, because their enemies didn't take prisoners either. They ridicule the established EVE community, because the old chaps were patting each other on the back for going after some newbs in T1 frigs.
Now that they are strong, they're eager to pay back for all the slights suffered when they were small and weak. Especially in regard to BoB. Killing BoB, not just defeating, but killing every BoB assest within their reach is their raison d'etre, their ultimate goal in this game. The day after BoB collapses, so will also Goonswarm, bereft of their sole reason of being. This really has to be stressed: There will never be peace between Goons and BoB, there will be no mercy, and no measure will be judged as too excessive. Their war is a total one.
The question of course is whether their own self conception is correct. The excuse "society made me do it" is as old as it lame. Indeed a lot of the Goon behavior can be explained simply by the immature and puerile attitude. A lot of them just like being a jerk, and in general Goons don't make for very pleasant company. This doesn't make them unique; they are like countless of unknown low sec corps, full of immature people, that romanticize their social ineptitude, as being pirates and hardcore PvP'ers. The Goons are just bigger.
But taking a look at the EVE community is also worthwhile: EVE is a game with huge barriers to entry. It has a very unfriendly newbie experience, and due to the "real time skill system" an almost impossible hurdle to catch up for new players. Couple this with one of the most condescending "old boys club" attitudes of the MMO world ever, and you might find that the Goons are perhaps not entirely at fault for the current situation.
EVE is not overly complicated. Within two months you basically know 95% of all things there are to know about this game, yet there's the overwhelming attitude of the "old community" that newbies shouldn't be in 0.0. You should earn the right of being in 0.0 by first spending months in Empire doing mind numbing mission running, or pointless low sec ganking before you are experienced enough to set a foot in 0.0. This is bull**** and the Goons called the community on it, and the old boys decided to punish the newbies for their insolence. So indeed there is some truth to the Goon claim that the community itself is responsible for their irreverence of it.
If the community wants to stop the Goon blob, they need to come down from their high horse. The Goons can blob because they have the pilots. Just sayin...
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Illaria
POS War Deserters
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Posted - 2007.10.29 12:37:00 -
[2]
Originally by: Qual OK, your argument is self defeating.
The avarage EVE player stays in the game for 7 months. The Goon/BoB conflict has gone on for way longer than that. ALas Goons are by all means old boys by now.
So the fact that it took so long for them to actually be able to hold and conquor 0.0 space kinda only reinforeces the notion that n00bs really cant survive in 0.0, and not that n00bs can take 0.0 easily...
Goons have been a lot younger when they first ventured in 0.0 space and left their mark so to speak. But it's not really about them being able to conquest 0.0 space from established alliances that earned them the wrath from the old boys, but that they even dared to try.
Look there's no hard reason for newbies not going into 0.0. It's just the elitist attitude of the old guard to teach them a lesson.
Originally by: WoHen Nankan actually went and read your other thread.
if you hate 0.0 warfare so much why stay?
I honestly dunno. I like the accompayning politics I guess. vv
Besides I couldn't stand Goonfleet anymore. Doesn't mean I'm a BoB/BoB Pet/Alt btw. My sympathies for BoB are limited to individual persons only, much like with Goonswarm.
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Illaria
POS War Deserters
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Posted - 2007.10.29 12:50:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Illaria on 29/10/2007 12:51:46
Originally by: WowZilla
They just present the image of being r-tards, cos they know it really winds up guys like you.
May I ask where the difference is between "presenting an image of a ******" and being one? If you constantly act like a ****** to wind people up, well, then you are indiscernible from one.
Originally by: WowZilla
Originally by: Illaria EVE is not overly complicated. Within two months you basically know 95% of all things there are to know about this game
WHAT? Have you EVER undocked from the n00b station you spawned in?
What concepts are so complicated, that you couldn't learn them in two months of dedicated gaming and reading up a bit on forums? It's not really rocket science you know. No MMO is.
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Illaria
POS War Deserters
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Posted - 2007.10.29 14:44:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Illaria on 29/10/2007 14:44:18
Originally by: fishblades First off, the propaganda machine keeps rolling. http://youtube.com/watch?v=lIVM-JMr-cg
High quality. http://senduit.com/ac3dc9
I like your style, keem 'em coming
Adding to the newbie debate: I have my issues with Goonfleet, but their integration of newbees is really excellent. They don't do it for altruistic reasons though. Goonfleet is very well aware that any additional pilot, even in a T1 frig, is an asset to their fleet. The problem i had was that you were treated like a mindless drone later on. Be there, shot POS, STFU.
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Illaria
POS War Deserters
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Posted - 2007.10.29 16:19:00 -
[5]
Originally by: The Mittani imma seriouspost here to be meta as ****
The issue with 'traditional' dialogue on CAOD is that it's just pretentious crap like what Molle or DBP would post. People acting INTERNET SPACE TYRANTS without a shred of irony and then getting their rocks off as sycophants lined up to suck them off on the forums. Or dabbling in 'real world' outrage over things and trying to take it out ingame, such as this idiot and his Vietnam meltdown and Avon lining up dutifully to wave the bloody flag.
You can't even parody this. I spent a long time deliberately imitating the drivel the BoB posters would spew, and the pubbies lapped it up as if I was preaching the gospel, rather than taking the **** on the whole institution. "Posting in a Mittani thread", what the christ... screw that.
So welcome to an era of total ****posting. You don't 'get' fakeposting. You probably won't 'get' ****posting, either.
The community relations and politics, are what makes this game special. I'd go even further and say that they are one of the redeeming factors in an otherwise mediocre game.
Sure people like DBP are pretentious *****s, but you know, at the end of the day, when we all end up in other MMOs reminiscing about the good ol' EVE times it'll be people like him that will be remembered and not Goon_1872 that posted "You don't 'get' Goons".
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Illaria
POS War Deserters
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Posted - 2007.10.29 17:02:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Illaria on 29/10/2007 17:02:33
Originally by: BoB sucks better to be an infamous ******* rather than a nobody amirite?
Let me put it this way: better be an infamous *******, then just an *******, like a lot of the forum whoring Goons here.
Seriously I don' think it's so hard to get: I'm not defending BoB. They started the metagaming, **** posting, path, that Goonswarm is so proudly marching down along now. But that doesn't excuse you from doing even worse then them, and with much less style even.
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Illaria
POS War Deserters
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Posted - 2007.10.29 17:50:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Bein Glorious thread sucks
Indeed, I should've know better than to make any attempt post something relating to Goons on this forum. Hopefully some moderator will give it the coup de grace.
The Vaccum Vid rekindled my fascination with EVE and made me reactivate my account. This here killed it again.
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Illaria
POS War Deserters
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Posted - 2007.10.29 22:44:00 -
[8]
Should the war turn around, I wonder if somebody will quote pretentious Goon posts from these days, like Goons do with old BoB posts now. I also wonder if we'll then see a sudden decrease in Goon forum activity, just as we've seen it with BoB in the recent weeks.
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Illaria
POS War Deserters
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Posted - 2007.10.29 23:25:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Tevlent Actually there is a girl in GS. Her name is nicnivin.
Allegedly...
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Illaria
POS War Deserters
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Posted - 2007.10.29 23:46:00 -
[10]
The interesting thing is, that it was never communicated to new Goonfleet members that said dead EVE player was a actually a BoB member. Personally I haven't known it before until this thread.
It was always said that it was a random EVE player and BoB took it upon itself to avenge his honor. If it was actually a BoB member the jihad BoB called on the Goons would be a lot more understandable indeed.
Interesting to say at least.
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Illaria
POS War Deserters
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Posted - 2007.10.30 00:06:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Ezoran DuBlaidd
what good can come from announcing a real life death on an online forum for a game played by thousands?
look at all the other games, where this exact same thing happened. the SAME thing happened every single time.
now tell me the good that could possibly come from announcing a real life death to THOUSANDS of strangers on the internet.
Even though it probably really isn't advisable to do it, it isn't an excuse for people to behave like *******s.
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Illaria
POS War Deserters
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Posted - 2007.10.30 00:39:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Tevlent I wonder if all these pubbies know that we have our own forum and that we only come to COAD to troll.
As if Goonfleet.com would be any better. Reading Goonfleet.com causes brain cancer, just sayin.
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Illaria
POS War Deserters
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Posted - 2007.10.30 00:54:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Illaria on 30/10/2007 00:54:13
Originally by: Ezoran DuBlaidd because i started playing before august 23, 2007 and um, Quand les riches se font la guerre, ce sont les pauvres qui meurent, connasse.
Keep your French for yourself or I'll start posting in German. And we all know how nber that is.
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Illaria
POS War Deserters
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Posted - 2007.10.30 01:05:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Hrin I like General Windypops, his forum whoring is strong and he doesn't let silly things like facts or cogent thinking get in the way of a post.
He is becoming that which he despises most, a goon at heart.
This reminds me of something, someone from rho squadron once said to me: "Don't read CAOD. Just post."
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Illaria
POS War Deserters
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Posted - 2007.10.30 16:30:00 -
[15]
Originally by: PaddyPaddy Nihildarnik
Originally by: Zell Shadowcast tl:dr
wd:ls
Well done: learn some.
I dont get angry when people dont read long posts, especially if they are badly constructed. But this new FOTM of throwing out a tl:dr to any post over two sentences is just sad. Isnt this a waste of bandwidth or something? whats the difference of putting out a non-post with tl:dr and simply just going "eoige mgejo gio gege ge [e]b prbnl;xa" on the keys? Both are useless.
Mods- I know its difficult but you really should just ban people from the forums for throwing out crap like that...
Don't get yourself trolled by Goons, because this is all what these catchphrases are supposed to do. Goons, the EVE kind, not necessarily the SA kind, are in general (there are notable exceptions, but these post mostly on SHC) the worst posters on the net.
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Illaria
POS War Deserters
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Posted - 2007.10.30 17:08:00 -
[16]
Originally by: NO BRAKES You're trying pretty hard.
What I always wanted to know: whose alt are you no brakes? Your post oscillate between genuinely witty and the worst kind of **** imaginable. Unfortunately it comes down more often on the latter side than the other.
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Illaria
POS War Deserters
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Posted - 2007.10.30 17:25:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Illaria on 30/10/2007 17:24:58
Originally by: Two Beans
Originally by: Two Beans Posting in a Two Beans thread
Post with your main, you alt poster.
Circlejerking with yourself, bro?
Usually people employ different accounts or chars for this, but let me guess: :effort: amirite?
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Illaria
POS War Deserters
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Posted - 2007.10.30 17:45:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Ramlir I hear ya, sister. Their use of catchphrases and mockery of dead people isn't what I'd expect from something awful members. How I yearn for the grey pastures of GBS or my home away from home, Post Your Favorite
You know well what I mean. It's not the catchphrases per se, it's the general level of posting displayed here, that'd never be tolerated on SA, except in FYAD, BYOB and YCS.
Damn, forum whoring is preventing my work from being done.
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Illaria
POS War Deserters
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Posted - 2007.10.30 17:50:00 -
[19]
Originally by: NO BRAKES
Originally by: Illaria
Originally by: Ramlir I hear ya, sister. Their use of catchphrases and mockery of dead people isn't what I'd expect from something awful members. How I yearn for the grey pastures of GBS or my home away from home, Post Your Favorite
You know well what I mean. It's not the catchphrases per se, it's the general level of posting displayed here, that'd never be tolerated on SA, except in FYAD, BYOB and YCS.
Damn, forum whoring is preventing my work from being done.
Also the whining and backseat moderating that would get you probated in a heartbeat.
The thing is: I wouldn't need to whine, because you'd been banned ages ago.
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Illaria
POS War Deserters
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Posted - 2007.10.30 21:45:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Ezoran DuBlaidd so about getting an alt into goonsomething. whom is going to sponsor said alt?
Me. Just mention Illaria sponsored you. They will be delighted.
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Illaria
POS War Deserters
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Posted - 2007.10.30 21:52:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Nymysys You forget that almost all Goons come from OUTSIDE the game. Something Awful is where we are born, EvE is just another medium to interact with our brothers and sister Goons and harass pubbies.
I would dare to say that you don't really have many brother and sisters on SA in general. Why don't you ask Axe Maniac about it?
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Illaria
POS War Deserters
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Posted - 2007.10.30 21:57:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Nymysys If you notice, we have are own subforum now.
To be more precise. EVE has an own subforum now. Not all space faring Goons are in Goonfleet.
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Illaria
POS War Deserters
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Posted - 2007.10.30 21:59:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Ramlir Just 95% of them, yes. Groon joined recently.
Where do you have pulled this number from? No better don't tell me.
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Illaria
POS War Deserters
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Posted - 2007.10.30 22:19:00 -
[24]
Originally by: BobVII umm excuse me illaria has been reading SA for six whole months and is a member of an important goon WoW raid guild i think he knows what he's talking about you disrespectful jerk
Haha, I didn't even know you had an active EVE account BobVII
Having trolled you out of your cave, will always be highlight of my internet career. How's SPYad doing without me. I know all my "annoying" posts desecrated this temple of measured and reasonable debate.
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Illaria
POS War Deserters
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Posted - 2007.10.30 22:29:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Cippalippus Primus Illaria you are DeusEx on the somethingawful.com forums; you live in Hamburg, Germany. We know who you are.
You have been banned for posting homosexual content in public forums in goonfleet.com, which is a bannable offense. Not once, but you kept spamming your own images of yourself and your boyfriend all over the forums before we had to ban you.
Now don't try to play the victim. Goonfleet respects everyone's personal behaviours, but posting your ****ographic, homosexual, and personal images in forums meant to be safe for work can't be tolerated.
See now you're crossing the fine line between just ****posting actually smearing people. Not that my SA profile information are any secret, but you try to spin it so, that it looks like you'd have hacked your way into it.
"We know who you are". What do you want to convey with this. A hidden threat? Aww c'mon...
bla, bla, posting homosexual images on your forum. You know trolling someone wit alleged homosexuality only works with insecure teenagers, but hey I can't blame you, Goonflet consists of mostly of such people after all.
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Illaria
POS War Deserters
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Posted - 2007.10.30 22:32:00 -
[26]
Originally by: The Mittani why dont you quit specops and goonfleet because you're butthurt over a post about it
I did both. I quit over a month ago, Mr. GIA.
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Illaria
POS War Deserters
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Posted - 2007.10.30 22:41:00 -
[27]
Originally by: BobVII you're gonna go take a **** tonight and he's going to jump out of the shower and yell "WELL WELL MISTER MITTANI IT SEEMS YOU ARE FINALLY WITHIN MY GRASP"
how will it feel to lose your life at the hands of what's his name
huh?
All this Goon meltdown just about me? How flattering
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Illaria
POS War Deserters
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Posted - 2007.10.30 22:52:00 -
[28]
I think this thread has become by now a conspiracy of CCP to center and confine Goon ****posting to one place. In this sense I kind of still retain my SPYad access. booya
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Illaria
POS War Deserters
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Posted - 2007.10.30 23:39:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Ramlir Can we get those pics of Ilaria up in here?
You misspelled my name and thus broke my heart. No pictures for you.
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Illaria
POS War Deserters
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Posted - 2007.10.31 09:41:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Pastora This "excuse" works for the Game. I can play "by the rules" in RL. However, in the game everybody can make their own rules, and try to follow them... or brake them. I can separate RL from the Game. Seems like you, Illaria, can't. Or can you?
This is what the difference between the Goons and the major parts of the community is all about, isn't it Pastora?
It's a game about make believe space ships and colored sovereignty dots on a star map. Inconsequential and fleeting, they'll be all gone, when the server shut down for their final downtime. But like with any MMO, most people don't really play them about ingame goods, but about sharing the experience with other people. When you look back at your EVE experience in a few years you'll hopefully your comrades in RA and not the ship you flew and how good the fittings were, or how many systems RA claimed sovereignty over. These things are only there to give you something to do, something to fight over, to catalyze the above experience.
And this the Goon failure: they don't deride the game, in fact they take it very seriously, they deride the people playing it if they don't happen to be currently useful to them.
P.S. what happened to the H8- memorial thread?
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Illaria
POS War Deserters
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Posted - 2007.10.31 12:14:00 -
[31]
Edited by: Illaria on 31/10/2007 12:14:07
Originally by: Cippalippus Primus The site administrator found your IP, and with a little of research we found out your name and address. Sunny day today in the port area, isn't it? Hamburg is nice this time of the year!
So you know Hamburg is a major port city? Congrats, on your leet googling skills, I guess?
Try harder.
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Illaria
POS War Deserters
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Posted - 2007.10.31 12:41:00 -
[32]
@Cippalippus Primus
You can consider me trolled.
In all honesty, I quite enjoyed our little flame war so far, but this has showed me what scum you and your bunch of fellows really are. God, and I once flew under your corp tag.
Really I can't fathom what can drive someone to such bitterness and hatred.
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Illaria
POS War Deserters
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Posted - 2007.10.31 13:07:00 -
[33]
I'm done with you all.
There will be no further frolic shooting **** at each other. I don't know how, but I will put all my ingame efforts into hurting the Goonswarm alliance from now on, as much as I can. Whether on the forums or ingame. I will not forgive you this.
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