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Futher Bezluden
Minmatar
ORIGIN SYSTEMS
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2007.10.29 17:02:00 -
[1]
CCP, this is just another gripe for you to completely remove passive tanking from the game. Caldari need to know the love of active shield tanking like the minmatar. Gallente ships passive shield tanking, even for missions is canonically wrong with them being an armor tanking race.
Simple elimination of shield rechargers and shield power relays will kill off the turtles (drake, nighthawk/falcon) and bring balance to the force -I mean EVE.
THUKKER -Be Paranoid
Skeet Skeet L33t |
Eleana Tomelac
Gallente
Through the Looking Glass
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Posted - 2007.10.29 17:14:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Eleana Tomelac on 29/10/2007 17:15:51
Removing stuff directly is bad, you can't take a child's toy and watch him cry...
It is the shield power relays that have a very high impact on the passive shield tankers.
This is why myrmidon has extreme tanking with 6 lows, hurricane, even with his few meds is a better passive shield than armor tanker.
So, the answer is in lows.
Caldari super shield tanking ships have 4 or 5 (only nighthawk) lowslots. Ships with 5 or 6 lows have really really too short recharge rate.
We know that modules that are stack nerfed are reduced around this : (totally not exact values)
1st 100%
2nd 85%
3rd 58%
4th 28%
5th 10%
6th 2%
So, if the shield power relays gave a higher recharge bonus but were stacking nerfed, the 4 low slots ships would take advantage and get only a slight nerf, the 5 and more low slots would get close to nothing from the last power relays.
Then :
Myrmidon passive tanks no better
Hurricane gets a big hit, in fact, it will not have a good tank.
Nighthawk gets to focus more on damage, realising a ballistic control unit will be more useful than 10% of the bonus.
Drake is not hit or only lightly hit.
Same for ferox and other 4 low slots ships.
The issue is with the ships that had less lows and that were bad passive tankers. What happens? We don't want to make them uber... How is this avoided?
PS : remember, I am telling to INCREASE the shield power relay bonus and to make it stack nerfed so that when you fit 4 of them, it is EXACTLY the same as now, but ships with more than 4 gets penalized.
PS2 : this weekend, I realized how good at passive tanking can be an ishtar and it was frightening, and it is because it has 5 lows... Passive tanking gets too good over 4 lows!
--
Pocket drone carriers (tm) enthousiast !
Say hello to my tiny friends ! |
Krissie
Shadows of the Dead
Aftermath Alliance
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Posted - 2007.10.29 17:16:00 -
[3]
pro-nerf? moron, stop encouraging them
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Eleana Tomelac
Gallente
Through the Looking Glass
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Posted - 2007.10.29 17:19:00 -
[4]
Looks like you read what I wrote and understood...
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Pocket drone carriers (tm) enthousiast !
Say hello to my tiny friends ! |
Cythrawl
Caldari
Central Defiance
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Posted - 2007.10.29 17:33:00 -
[5]
It's good to see people scream for a nerf when they're completely oblivious to the reasons its ok they can passively tank.
One:
Shield tanking a passive setup is a one-trick pony. You can't get shield back if you break a passive tank's recharge rate. It dies without being able to pull back any type of shields.
Two:
Sacrifice everything for a tank. You get maybe 2 free slots, in the middle and the lows on a passive tank. Tell me the awesome things you'll do with that room, and I'll give you a cookie for trying. You'll fail.
Three:
There is no cap. Granted, the major passive boats you're talking about can completely passively setup their ship to the point they need not even worry with cap. BUT, the best tank comes with active shield hardeners. Take out those by removing the cap and when it's em resists go to the low 10s on a non-drake or mid 30s on a drake, it's a cake-walk for any pvp fitted ship except maybe gallente to eat it alive.(em missiles, emp ammo, lasers)
Fourth:
On the limited possibility you'll see these in pvp, mostly drakes tanking sentries, they're going to move like glaciers because they don't have the room to fit an affective passive tank and still be nimble enough to get close plus lock someone down and kill them all at the same time.
If you run into a gang, you're screwed. But if they're alone, you can just fly away. You'll probably move faster than them unless you're in a bs. Then again, you can tank them. Their DPS is usually horrible. And the myrm is getting fixed by drone bitrate balancing.
Seriously though, don't you have anything else you can suggest nerfing? Like multispectral eccms or something?
.:.
 Originally by: Krazy Bitsch
Originally by: Virtuality
In before the first troll.
i do believe you are too late for this....
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Valerax Orion
Fourth Circle
Total Comfort
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Posted - 2007.10.29 17:44:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Futher Bezluden
CCP, this is just another gripe for you to completely remove passive tanking from the game. Caldari need to know the love of active shield tanking like the minmatar. Gallente ships passive shield tanking, even for missions is canonically wrong with them being an armor tanking race.
Simple elimination of shield rechargers and shield power relays will kill off the turtles (drake, nighthawk/falcon) and bring balance to the force -I mean EVE.
I got killed by a passive tanked drake even though it's dps is appauling, waaaaaaah *throws toy out of pram*
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Icome4u
Caldari
Dark and Light inc.
D-L
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Posted - 2007.10.29 17:46:00 -
[7]
You guys fail to see that by giving up dps (and usually ewar) the pilot boost its tank. Nothing wrong with that.
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Futher Bezluden
Minmatar
ORIGIN SYSTEMS
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2007.10.29 17:54:00 -
[8]
One day this will be a nicely formatted battle summary report. Honest :)
Time: 10/29/2007 5:07:54 PM
Character: Futher Bezluden
Location: BF 1 - Consensual combat only
Duration: 00:13:41
My Weapons Used
425mm AutoCannon II
Enemies Attacked
ISno god [FA.]<CODE>(Drake)
Damage Done: 120407.60
Damage Received: 2085.80 -a hyperion shot me a couple times
===================
2007.10.29 17:24
shield 30018
recharge 339.79 sec
2 invu t2
4 t2 large shield extenders
4 shield power relay t2
3 field extender I
res is em 61.18 - exp 84.47 - kin 76.71 - therm 68.95
===================
Sleipnir with 425mm AC II with EMP M ammo.
2.32s ROF, 8.99x damage
===================
Drake never dropped below 67% shields.
How is this even remotely balanced when a BC can tank that much damage for so long? All they really have to do it log off the moment they get agro'd and they live. Quite simply, I don't think there is a ship out there that can solo kill a drake setup for pure tanking like the above. So either eliminate or nerf the mods used for passive tanking.
THUKKER -Be Paranoid
Skeet Skeet L33t |
prathe
Minmatar
Omega Enterprises
Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2007.10.29 18:28:00 -
[9]
i agree that the passive tanked drake is kinda crazy 300+ secs on a 30000 shield ship
thats kinda nuts
but
1) it can be usefull
2) ive never met one that survived
signature removed - please email us to find out why (include a link to the image URL) - Jacques([email protected])
why dont you just tell me ? |
Valerax Orion
Fourth Circle
Total Comfort
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Posted - 2007.10.29 18:32:00 -
[10]
So what you are in fact saying is;
1) You can't kill a passive tanked drake solo,
2) You consider yourself "leet" and "an amazingly good evil nasty pirate".
Therefore: If an amazingly leet pirate like yourself can't kill something, they must be overpowered and therefore need some spanks from the nerfbat?
Really you are the kind of person that says: "A fleet of goonswarm killed me, either nerf all the ships/modules they are using or remove goonswarm from the game."
Note; I have nothing against goonswarm and actually think they are pretty decent guys.
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prathe
Minmatar
Omega Enterprises
Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2007.10.29 18:54:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Valerax Orion
So what you are in fact saying is;
1) You can't kill a passive tanked drake solo,
2) You consider yourself "leet" and "an amazingly good evil nasty pirate".
Therefore: If an amazingly leet pirate like yourself can't kill something, they must be overpowered and therefore need some spanks from the nerfbat?
Really you are the kind of person that says: "A fleet of goonswarm killed me, either nerf all the ships/modules they are using or remove goonswarm from the game."
Note; I have nothing against goonswarm and actually think they are pretty decent guys.
i think you need to lie down for a bit , or pratice reading comprehension cause i have no idea where that came from . your just ....lol dude wtf is that? 
signature removed - please email us to find out why (include a link to the image URL) - Jacques([email protected])
why dont you just tell me ? |
Blind Man
Angel Deep Corporation
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Posted - 2007.10.29 18:56:00 -
[12]
people that passive tank cant tackle or really be of any use in pvp so why does it matter?
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Futher Bezluden
Minmatar
ORIGIN SYSTEMS
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2007.10.29 19:00:00 -
[13]
Val, Troll much?
==========
most recent test:
One day this will be a nicely formatted battle summary report. Honest :)
Time: 10/29/2007 5:53:14 PM
Character: Futher Bezluden
Location: BF 2 - Consensual combat only
Duration: 00:27:37
My Weapons Used
425mm AutoCannon II
Enemies Attacked
Dred Tather [WARP]<FANG>(Drake)
Damage Done: 313845.60
Damage Received: 89737.50
Tanked 189.4 damage per second for almost half an hour. I finally ran out of EMP medium, but his shields never got lower than 30%. Whenever I reloaded, shields rose back to about 55%.
The passive tanking is a bit over the top when it can withstand that much damage without fear of dying so some re-examination of passive tanking is in order because the "nerf" hasn't changed a thing.
THUKKER -Be Paranoid
Skeet Skeet L33t |
Incantare
Caldari
Kernel of War
Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2007.10.29 19:08:00 -
[14]
Stop doing "tests" on sisi. On tq when you run into a passive tank you cannot break solo you call for a ganksquad in corp chat and wait while tanking pathetic dps from the immobile passive ship.
A passive tank gives up everything towards tank, including cap (yes it doesn't take cap, but try running any cap hungry mods with a passive tank and see what happens).
It's balanced.
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Valerax Orion
Fourth Circle
Total Comfort
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Posted - 2007.10.29 19:25:00 -
[15]
prathe; didn't mean you...meant the OP
And I apologise for trolling but a) ive had a bad day and need to let off some steam AND cant get on eve *shakes fist* and b) you are complaining about a ship setup that yeh, as has already been said, sacrifices most dps capability for durability.
However; my TQ pwn-train that is my drake with 7 t2 rocket launchers, and RoF rigs and mods out the jacksee, along with lots of shield extenders=win
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Gor Kraon
Minmatar
Red Alliance
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Posted - 2007.10.29 19:41:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Futher Bezluden
Tanked 189.4 damage per second for almost half an hour.
Is that supposed to be impressive? My Myrmiddon can tank over 1000 dps...
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