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Shed light on this piracy?

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Exuscon Amarr	Posted - 2007.11.01 14:19:00 - [31] I'll pay you for his location and I will pretend to be new on my other account. I love killing these sheep. He gonna be in for a rude awkening. I usualy do not take the time to look for this crap going on. It's about time we give somthing back to where we came from.
Dzajic Gallente	Posted - 2007.11.01 14:25:00 - [32] Sad thing. Cant be fixed. You cant anchor secure cans in 1.0, and they are too small. To mine spend 30$ per month for 2 accounts and have a hauler alt. After some months you will be able to pay both accounts by ISK with GTC trades. (If CCP doesn't discontinue the GTC game)
WarlockX Amarr Free Trade Corp Kinetic Maelstrom Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.01 14:35:00 - [33] why do you ppl give him such a hard time when this is a know bug/exploit. ----------------------------------------------- "I often quote myself. It adds spice to my conversation."
Shanur Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2007.11.01 15:18:00 - [34] This is exactly why i NEVER turn the stealing warning off.
Detrol Caldari	Posted - 2007.11.05 22:38:00 - [35] Originally by: WarlockX why do you ppl give him such a hard time when this is a know bug/exploit. I'm sure with such a statement, you have the link to that Dev response ready to be posted. That dev post where it was explained that this is an exploit.
Ki An Gallente Filiolus Of Bellum	Posted - 2007.11.05 23:48:00 - [36] Can swapping in its various forms is a great way to pick a fight with Empire dwellers. Often they will totally freak out about the 'grief' you put them through by stealing their ore, and you might end up getting to fight their combat ship. Of course, this won't work on a two week old player as they won't have any combat ship to speak of. It is also used to **** off macro miners, as some of them stay in high-sec all the time, stripping the belts and preventing normal miners from gaining isk. Most likely you (OP) encountered a bored player who just wanted a kill while waiting for something else. If he does it right you will smack him in local, and post a whiny thread on the forums. This is fuel for his fire, and is pretty damn funny. In order to prevent this from happening to you again, I would propose you do either or all of the following: Go below .7 space and use an anchored secure container. Make a few friends and do a mining op where you haul out the ore you mine instead of leaving it floating in space. Never ever smack the ore thief in local, as this is one of his primary objectives. If you are in a player corp this might net you a war declaration as well. Never post like this on the forums. If you want to ask questions, use the help channel. You have probably contributed to a laugh or two in the thief's corp chat with this thread. In closing, Eve is a PvP game, which means you are in direct competition with everyone else all the time. This time you got bested. It's part of the game. Beware: I'm a "viscous pirate"!
Alora Venoda Caldari GalTech Giant Space Amoeba	Posted - 2007.11.05 23:59:00 - [37] respond to an ore thief by leaving, and don't ever sit in a belt with a full jetcan. either stop and switch to hauler when the can has enough to fill your hauler, or use a hauler alt/friend to collect the ore as you mine it. alternatively, you can load up a level 1 mission and mine the veld in there instead of in a standard belt. it will be somewhat safer from the usual ore thieves. and a number of missions have better ores than veld, especially level 3 missions or higher. ~~~~ ~~~~ ~~~~ Take away the risk and it would make flying around in space utterly pointless. Take away the flying around part and you make EVE into a space themed spreadsheet application.
Manatheren Wraith Recondite	Posted - 2007.11.06 10:42:00 - [38] Originally by: Telkwa From what I see this game needs new members/players. Being flippant to new comers only hurts this community and would drive people away. This is where I lost all sympathy. **** you, you're not special because you're new.
Sarkkon	Posted - 2007.11.06 11:42:00 - [39] Edited by: Sarkkon on 06/11/2007 11:44:27 If it was your can, and not the pirates, there is a fairly well know loot lag/desynch issue that flags the Owner of the can to the person stealing from it. Since the OP claims it was a cargo can, (standard container) no just a jetison can, i am assuming this pirate got lucky. This only works some of the time, and not very reliably, but they (pirate) steal a small amout of ore, and jetison it to their own can. They then select remaining ore stacks in owner can and click/drag/hold over their can. When they see miners ore stacks start to dissapear they drop entire stack to their. Server then either gives an 'item xxxxxx is not yours to take' message or desynchs and transfers ore from pirates can to miners. There is no warning message and owner of items flags for taking items from what is his can or wreck, unfortunatly the item belongs to theif now even tho it appears to owners as still in his can. I have lost a few ships rating and to mission invaders doing this same trick.( the ships crew in 'worlds colide' flagged me to pirates when i took them from the wrecked HERON can) Since CCP cant figgure out how it happens (they KNOW it happens, but since they cant reliably re create this bug its not an exploit and they pretend it doenst happen and cant replace ships and property stolen in this manner.) I have gotten lucky with this several times myself recently taking ore from macro hulks. Its unintentional, i just take / flip / shoot cans untill some protector accounts shows up in a combat ship. And then blow up the protecotors. But, CCP's bug hunters cant recreate it [I have filed several bug reports. All i can say is that you miners try it and file bugs with log included when it works for you- maybe CCP will fix it someday]
Verite Rendition Caldari F.R.E.E. Explorer Atrum Tempestas Foedus	Posted - 2007.11.06 11:46:00 - [40] Originally by: Bish Ounen Keep in mind that if it was just a standard can (NOT necessarily a Jetcan) then anyone can access it. Only anchored secure cans require a password to access. I've actually seen this before. A greifer will go and patrol the local belts looking for an easy target. He will come upon a newbie miner out mining using either an unanchored secure can, or a regular can. He will pull up to the can, open both his cargo and the can. he will then move the contents of the can to his cargo, thereby stealing it, and making it his, and then back to the can. Now HIS cargo is in someone else's can. The miner, not necessarily noticing the move (if you do it quick enough, sometimes the other player's client won't update in time to see the move) just goes and grabs the ore, trying to protect it. Unfortunately for the miner, the ore isn't his anymore. He just stole from the griefer, and get's flagged for it. Keep in mind, that the warning screen can be turned off (the "do not show this warning again" checkbox) Many people inadvertently turn off the warning, and so when a greifer comes along and pulls this stunt THEY DON'T GET THE WARNING. Now the poor unsuspecting newbie miner is flagged, and the griefer proceeds to get his teeny tiny e-peen hard by slaughtering someone who can't fight back. I'm fairly certain that this is what happened to the OP. It sucks, but it happens, and it's totally allowed by game mechanics and rules. The only real way to change it is to institute a mechanics change whereby if you put something into someone else's can, it becomes theirs, and you give up the rights to it. To the OP: I'm sorry this happened to you, and I know it's frustrating. The only advice I can give is to not let it get to you. Pick yourself up, buy a new ship, and move on. Please remember. EVE is specifically designed to not be very safe. While hi-sec space (0.5 - 1.0) is safer than lowsec (0.1 - 0.4) it is not completely safe. Since EVE's designers wanted a risky and dangerous world, this allows some players to grief, and puts solo players at a distinct and severe disadvantage. Like any other game, there are plenty of people in this game that take a great deal of enjoyment out of ruining another player's day. The best way to beat them is to not make yourself a target. Find a like-minded group of players, and join up with them in a corporation. Like anyting else online or offline, there is strength in numbers. Even players in T1 mining ships can fend off a lone greifer, IF they are in a group and defend one-another. So go find a good corp and apply for membership. You'll make more ISK, lose less ships, and generally have a heck of alot more fun. Good luck! This is the first I've heard of this specific mechanic, but if it's true then CCP needs to get off of their asses and change it. Can flipping is harsh but valid, but poisoning other people's cans and allowing them to get themselves flagged without a warning is being way too hard on the players. ---- FREE Explorer Lead Megalomanic EVE Automated Influence Map
ShadowFox 07 Gallente Shadows of the Dead Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.06 11:47:00 - [41] Wow, whiners make me laugh too much now days. Next time buy a secure can mate or don't mine, problem solved. Besides who mines now days
Gypsio III Darkness Inc.	Posted - 2007.11.06 12:03:00 - [42] Originally by: Sarkkon Edited by: Sarkkon on 06/11/2007 11:44:27 If it was your can, and not the pirates, there is a fairly well know loot lag/desynch issue that flags the Owner of the can to the person stealing from it. Since the OP claims it was a cargo can, (standard container) no just a jetison can, i am assuming this pirate got lucky. This only works some of the time, and not very reliably, but they (pirate) steal a small amout of ore, and jetison it to their own can. They then select remaining ore stacks in owner can and click/drag/hold over their can. When they see miners ore stacks start to dissapear they drop entire stack to their. Server then either gives an 'item xxxxxx is not yours to take' message or desynchs and transfers ore from pirates can to miners. There is no warning message and owner of items flags for taking items from what is his can or wreck, unfortunatly the item belongs to theif now even tho it appears to owners as still in his can. I have lost a few ships rating and to mission invaders doing this same trick.( the ships crew in 'worlds colide' flagged me to pirates when i took them from the wrecked HERON can) Since CCP cant figgure out how it happens (they KNOW it happens, but since they cant reliably re create this bug its not an exploit and they pretend it doenst happen and cant replace ships and property stolen in this manner.) I have gotten lucky with this several times myself recently taking ore from macro hulks. Its unintentional, i just take / flip / shoot cans untill some protector accounts shows up in a combat ship. And then blow up the protecotors. But, CCP's bug hunters cant recreate it [I have filed several bug reports. All i can say is that you miners try it and file bugs with log included when it works for you- maybe CCP will fix it someday] I've had a couple of experiences similar to this - miners who start flashing for no apparent reason, but who appeared to be taking ore from their can just as I do the same. I've never been able to reproduce it, so it seems to be related to lag/desync and pure (bad) luck.
F90OEX	Posted - 2007.11.06 12:11:00 - [43] Originally by: Bish Ounen Keep in mind that if it was just a standard can (NOT necessarily a Jetcan) then anyone can access it. Only anchored secure cans require a password to access. I've actually seen this before. A greifer will go and patrol the local belts looking for an easy target. He will come upon a newbie miner out mining using either an unanchored secure can, or a regular can. He will pull up to the can, open both his cargo and the can. he will then move the contents of the can to his cargo, thereby stealing it, and making it his, and then back to the can. Now HIS cargo is in someone else's can. The miner, not necessarily noticing the move (if you do it quick enough, sometimes the other player's client won't update in time to see the move) just goes and grabs the ore, trying to protect it. Unfortunately for the miner, the ore isn't his anymore. He just stole from the griefer, and get's flagged for it. Keep in mind, that the warning screen can be turned off (the "do not show this warning again" checkbox) Many people inadvertently turn off the warning, and so when a greifer comes along and pulls this stunt THEY DON'T GET THE WARNING. Now the poor unsuspecting newbie miner is flagged, and the griefer proceeds to get his teeny tiny e-peen hard by slaughtering someone who can't fight back. I'm fairly certain that this is what happened to the OP. It sucks, but it happens, and it's totally allowed by game mechanics and rules. The only real way to change it is to institute a mechanics change whereby if you put something into someone else's can, it becomes theirs, and you give up the rights to it. To the OP: I'm sorry this happened to you, and I know it's frustrating. The only advice I can give is to not let it get to you. Pick yourself up, buy a new ship, and move on. Please remember. EVE is specifically designed to not be very safe. While hi-sec space (0.5 - 1.0) is safer than lowsec (0.1 - 0.4) it is not completely safe. Since EVE's designers wanted a risky and dangerous world, this allows some players to grief, and puts solo players at a distinct and severe disadvantage. Like any other game, there are plenty of people in this game that take a great deal of enjoyment out of ruining another player's day. The best way to beat them is to not make yourself a target. Find a like-minded group of players, and join up with them in a corporation. Like anyting else online or offline, there is strength in numbers. Even players in T1 mining ships can fend off a lone greifer, IF they are in a group and defend one-another. So go find a good corp and apply for membership. You'll make more ISK, lose less ships, and generally have a heck of alot more fun. Good luck! Quality post of the week...
Sarkkon	Posted - 2007.11.06 12:22:00 - [44] Ok so looks like we have 2 distinct Issues here with agression flaggin. First with standard/anchored cans where anyone besides the can owner can put anything in them thus 'poisioning' then and setting up an unwitting theft flag.[never tried this one, ill have to check it out myself] Second seems to be a desynch issue with mission wrecks and jetison cans. Where items transfer at diffrent rates in respects to server and the clients of players involved. So player A loots from player A's can( player A sees his items in Player A's) but server takes items from Player B's can post theft from Player A and flags player A to B for theft. The first one seems easiest for CCP to fix if this works and isnt just some varient of desynch. Might be a desynch that allows the non owner to use can. or might be result of non ownsip since can not really anchored, I do know there is no criminal flag for scooping non anchored cans.
Granmethedon III High4Life SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.06 12:30:00 - [45] Edited by: Granmethedon III on 06/11/2007 12:30:07 I love the way a griefer is assumed to be a poor player, rather than say, simply a bored nasty git. ;)
Saint Luka The Illuminati. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.11.06 12:32:00 - [46] It is called "Can Flipping" The "pirate" Jettison's his own can usually consisting of 1 round of ammo. He moves the contents of your can into his own making him "Flash red" as you have just gained 15minutes kill rights on him for stealing. When he did this your can disappeared as it was emptied. You took from the can he created therefore making yourself "flash red" to him, giving him 15minute killrights on you. Its possibly the lamest form of piracy but its totally legal. Want too avoid it? use secure cans. -
Honethite Gallente	Posted - 2007.11.06 12:32:00 - [47] Eve is harsh for the first few months, stick with it, it doesn't get any easier, but we like it this way. ----- --> Give Eve Online the score it deserves - Eve Online ftw ! <--
Telkwa	Posted - 2007.11.06 12:33:00 - [48] ShadowFox 07 - I'm sick to death with people like you and your "whiner" accusations. YouÆre callous and condescending, you ridicule people who donÆt fall under your definition of a forum post just to make yourself look superior. Log off and do some soul searching. Ki An û IÆve paid my monthly dues as have you. If I want to post questions on the forum about something that happened to me IÆll damn well do so. The World is so sorry the forum isnÆt tailored for your specific likes and dislikes. See message to ShadowFox 07 for further details. Quote: Never post like this on the forums. If you want to ask questions, use the help channel. You have probably contributed to a laugh or two in the thief's corp chat with this thread. Thanks for everyoneÆs insight and suggestions. The day I posted this and after getting an understanding about what the person did I sent the ôpirateö player a few angry messages about what he did and how pathetic it was etc. It was a plain jetcan that I used. Today, I am happy to post that the person who destroyed my ship in this fashion sent me a message saying He decided to compensate me for my loss and sent me a whopping 9 million Isk. I was pretty shocked. I picked up another Osprey and the fittings I had on it and sent him back 6 Million. It was generous to send 9 Million but was too much. Perhaps he read this forum post and felt bad. IÆm pretty impressed and thanks! I think IÆll continue with the game :).
Wizzkidy Demonic Retribution Pure.	Posted - 2007.11.06 12:35:00 - [49] OP. You seem to leak the whole point of the "act" they played on you. If you sent them a load of eve mails stating there "lame" they are just laughing back at you due to your "crying" Don't give them the satisfaction of your "crying" and learn and move on that is all.
Telkwa	Posted - 2007.11.06 12:40:00 - [50] Originally by: Wizzkidy OP. You seem to leak the whole point of the "act" they played on you. If you sent them a load of eve mails stating there "lame" they are just laughing back at you due to your "crying" Don't give them the satisfaction of your "crying" and learn and move on that is all. Ahem, Did you read my entire post? He gave me 9 million ISK.
Telkwa	Posted - 2007.11.06 12:42:00 - [51] Since when is telling someone what they did is wrong, crying? Are you an EVE snob too?
NeoTheo Caldari Dark Materials	Posted - 2007.11.06 12:46:00 - [52] rofl bbqfishsticks
Pindleskin Dark Materials	Posted - 2007.11.06 12:56:00 - [53] Can flippin is kinda fun tho. Ok, so agaist new guys maybe a little harsh but all the same you do learn this game the hardway. Pindle
Ki An Gallente Filiolus Of Bellum	Posted - 2007.11.06 16:17:00 - [54] Originally by: Telkwa Ki An û IÆve paid my monthly dues as have you. If I want to post questions on the forum about something that happened to me IÆll damn well do so. The World is so sorry the forum isnÆt tailored for your specific likes and dislikes. See message to ShadowFox 07 for further details. Quote: Never post like this on the forums. If you want to ask questions, use the help channel. You have probably contributed to a laugh or two in the thief's corp chat with this thread. Dude, I was giving you free advice. Normally you'de have to pay for that. If you're going to be a *** about it, I'm gonna make an example out of you. Don't a pirate off - another piece of free advice. Originally by:** Telkwa Today, I am happy to post that the person who destroyed my ship in this fashion sent me a message saying He decided to compensate me for my loss and sent me a whopping 9 million Isk. I was pretty shocked. I picked up another Osprey and the fittings I had on it and sent him back 6 Million. It was generous to send 9 Million but was too much. Perhaps he read this forum post and felt bad. IÆm pretty impressed and thanks! I think IÆll continue with the game :). Obviously you where extremely (read: EXTREMELY) lucky, as this is the first time I've heard about this happening to anyone. Normally when you start smacking in eve-mails the guy will just have a good laugh. I hope for your sake that you learned something from this experience though, because next time I guarantee you will not be as lucky. Beware: I'm a "viscous pirate"!
Aurinkokuningas	Posted - 2007.11.06 17:24:00 - [55] Can I have your stuff?

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