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Dammar
Amarr Ephorate
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Posted - 2007.11.01 22:11:00 -
[31]
Die OP'd, FOTY, ***lentee scum.
Nerf em s'more weeeeeeeee.
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Dave10
Sulithus
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Posted - 2007.11.01 22:18:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Xequecal Edited by: Xequecal on 01/11/2007 22:07:08 Edited by: Xequecal on 01/11/2007 22:05:49
Quote: Xequecal, I never said the hyperion can fit full neutrons. It can reach 1k dps with electrons+ions without any PG rigs giving it a rediculous tank However, you pretty much have to go for neutrons on the kronos. Unless of course, you want to use 2 tank rigs, at which point you've paid quite a bit for a hyperion that gets jammed easily
Why do you "have" to use neutrons on the Kronos? Just to satisfy some arbitrary argument? If you can downgrade the Hyperion to Ions, you can downgrade the Kronos to ions much more easily.
yes you can. Downgrading each gun on the kronos has a more profound effect however than downgrading each gun on a hyperion, which you can mix guns on to get 1k dps, with 3 tank rigs and 37.5% tank bonus. On the kronos however, downgrading so you dont have to fit a PG rig, combined with this lovely nerf, results in dps close to the hyperion's. And whats the point in having a ship that does the same dps as the hyperion but tanks worse? A kronos with 2 rep rigs and 30% bonus(marauders is a rank 10 skill ) won't be as good as a hyperion tank with 37.5% and 3 rigs.
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Xequecal
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Posted - 2007.11.01 22:24:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Dave10
Originally by: Xequecal Edited by: Xequecal on 01/11/2007 22:07:08 Edited by: Xequecal on 01/11/2007 22:05:49
Quote: Xequecal, I never said the hyperion can fit full neutrons. It can reach 1k dps with electrons+ions without any PG rigs giving it a rediculous tank However, you pretty much have to go for neutrons on the kronos. Unless of course, you want to use 2 tank rigs, at which point you've paid quite a bit for a hyperion that gets jammed easily
Why do you "have" to use neutrons on the Kronos? Just to satisfy some arbitrary argument? If you can downgrade the Hyperion to Ions, you can downgrade the Kronos to ions much more easily.
yes you can. Downgrading each gun on the kronos has a more profound effect however than downgrading each gun on a hyperion, which you can mix guns on to get 1k dps, with 3 tank rigs and 37.5% tank bonus. On the kronos however, downgrading so you dont have to fit a PG rig, combined with this lovely nerf, results in dps close to the hyperion's. And whats the point in having a ship that does the same dps as the hyperion but tanks worse? A kronos with 2 rep rigs and 30% bonus(marauders is a rank 10 skill ) won't be as good as a hyperion tank with 37.5% and 3 rigs.
A dual-rep Hyperion setup with 3 tank rigs won't fit with ions, let alone "mixing" ions and neutrons. You have to mix in electrons with ions to get it to fit, while the Kronos can fit straight ions with no problems, I think it can even mix in some neutrons. It has an extra low slot for more resists to get a better tank as well, cancels out the third rig.
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Dave10
Sulithus
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Posted - 2007.11.01 22:30:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Dave10 It can reach 1k dps with electrons+ions without any PG rigs giving it a rediculous tank
If you use all the lows dedicated to tank, yes. But mag stabs are normally the module of choice with a 5 slot tank
Like I said, in PvP in its current state its really good as a plate gangmobile mega. But theres no point in bringing one over a mega in a gang really. In tank mode you gain around 20% dps now due to this nerf, and lose 30% tank over a hyperion not really giving it huge merit over the tier 3 tech 1.
In PvE the tractor bonus and 3 spare highs for tractors I suppose make them valuable, if the runner isnt just using a hauler alt to get the loot. Other than that it isnt really a big enough upgrade over the existing tech 1 ships to constitute the price.
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Susan Acid
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.11.01 22:31:00 -
[35]
Ubar? Ja!
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Xequecal
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Posted - 2007.11.01 22:33:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Dave10
Originally by: Dave10 It can reach 1k dps with electrons+ions without any PG rigs giving it a rediculous tank
If you use all the lows dedicated to tank, yes. But mag stabs are normally the module of choice with a 5 slot tank
Like I said, in PvP in its current state its really good as a plate gangmobile mega. But theres no point in bringing one over a mega in a gang really. In tank mode you gain around 20% dps now due to this nerf, and lose 30% tank over a hyperion not really giving it huge merit over the tier 3 tech 1.
In PvE the tractor bonus and 3 spare highs for tractors I suppose make them valuable, if the runner isnt just using a hauler alt to get the loot. Other than that it isnt really a big enough upgrade over the existing tech 1 ships to constitute the price.
You need to stop posting this. It does not lose 30% tank. This is a flat out lie. +1 low slot -1 rig slot does not equate to 30% tank loss, no matter how you slice it.
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Gamesguy
Amarr D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.11.01 22:55:00 -
[37]
Edited by: Gamesguy on 01/11/2007 22:55:10
Originally by: Dave10
Originally by: Dave10 It can reach 1k dps with electrons+ions without any PG rigs giving it a rediculous tank
If you use all the lows dedicated to tank, yes. But mag stabs are normally the module of choice with a 5 slot tank
Like I said, in PvP in its current state its really good as a plate gangmobile mega. But theres no point in bringing one over a mega in a gang really. In tank mode you gain around 20% dps now due to this nerf, and lose 30% tank over a hyperion not really giving it huge merit over the tier 3 tech 1.
In PvE the tractor bonus and 3 spare highs for tractors I suppose make them valuable, if the runner isnt just using a hauler alt to get the loot. Other than that it isnt really a big enough upgrade over the existing tech 1 ships to constitute the price.
How about you conceed you don't know wtf you're talking about? You made a completely WRONG statement about something you've never flown and then tried to backpeddle like 5 times to make it seem like you knew wtf you were talking about.
Its pathetic. signature removed - please email us to find out why (include a link to the image URL) - Jacques([email protected]) |
Reem Fairchild
Minmatar Republic University
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Posted - 2007.11.01 23:04:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Xequecal HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Wow, you're on something here. You realize the Kronos with no drones in space and rail guns fitted will outdamage the Paladin WITH drones in space and Mega Pulse II with Scorch fitted?
No, I don't know that, because it's not the case.
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Dave10
Sulithus
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Posted - 2007.11.01 23:11:00 -
[39]
Edited by: Dave10 on 01/11/2007 23:11:49
Originally by: Gamesguy Edited by: Gamesguy on 01/11/2007 22:55:10
Originally by: Dave10
Originally by: Dave10 It can reach 1k dps with electrons+ions without any PG rigs giving it a rediculous tank
If you use all the lows dedicated to tank, yes. But mag stabs are normally the module of choice with a 5 slot tank
Like I said, in PvP in its current state its really good as a plate gangmobile mega. But theres no point in bringing one over a mega in a gang really. In tank mode you gain around 20% dps now due to this nerf, and lose 30% tank over a hyperion not really giving it huge merit over the tier 3 tech 1.
In PvE the tractor bonus and 3 spare highs for tractors I suppose make them valuable, if the runner isnt just using a hauler alt to get the loot. Other than that it isnt really a big enough upgrade over the existing tech 1 ships to constitute the price.
How about you conceed you don't know wtf you're talking about? You made a completely WRONG statement about something you've never flown and then tried to backpeddle like 5 times to make it seem like you knew wtf you were talking about.
Its pathetic.
No idea at all
Get EFT out and do the maths on it perhaps?
Thats the hypothetical full tank hype vs full tank kronos that I was never talking about, but theres a comparason for you to show how underwhelming it is.
The setup I was talking about involved mag stabs(shocking, I know) and their effect on the overall outcome. Which is a large loss in tankability for the kronos, but when combined with the PG rig and neuts makes for a ~20% dps increase. The offset of course is you loose a chunk of tank, which is quite considerable. The ship just seems to trade off tank for dps in equal chunks, and I cant really see where its an improvement over the hyperion, especially in PvP. Where they are intended to be used, just easily counterable.
edit: ignore the firepower on the kronos, I forgot to add ammo. But the 840 includes the updated dps with faction AM
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Leandro Salazar
The Blackguard Wolves Knights Of the Southerncross
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Posted - 2007.11.01 23:30:00 -
[40]
Where exactly are you pulling those PG problems on the Kronos from anyway? I mean, with 15000 PG and only 4 guns to fit, there are virtually no problems at all...
There is no 'n' in turret There is no 'r' in faction There is no 'a' in Scorpion There is no 'e' in Caldari There is no makeup in rogue drones |
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Gamesguy
Amarr D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.11.01 23:47:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Dave10 Edited by: Dave10 on 01/11/2007 23:11:49
Originally by: Gamesguy Edited by: Gamesguy on 01/11/2007 22:55:10
Originally by: Dave10
Originally by: Dave10 It can reach 1k dps with electrons+ions without any PG rigs giving it a rediculous tank
If you use all the lows dedicated to tank, yes. But mag stabs are normally the module of choice with a 5 slot tank
Like I said, in PvP in its current state its really good as a plate gangmobile mega. But theres no point in bringing one over a mega in a gang really. In tank mode you gain around 20% dps now due to this nerf, and lose 30% tank over a hyperion not really giving it huge merit over the tier 3 tech 1.
In PvE the tractor bonus and 3 spare highs for tractors I suppose make them valuable, if the runner isnt just using a hauler alt to get the loot. Other than that it isnt really a big enough upgrade over the existing tech 1 ships to constitute the price.
How about you conceed you don't know wtf you're talking about? You made a completely WRONG statement about something you've never flown and then tried to backpeddle like 5 times to make it seem like you knew wtf you were talking about.
Its pathetic.
No idea at all
Get EFT out and do the maths on it perhaps?
Thats the hypothetical full tank hype vs full tank kronos that I was never talking about, but theres a comparason for you to show how underwhelming it is.
The setup I was talking about involved mag stabs(shocking, I know) and their effect on the overall outcome. Which is a large loss in tankability for the kronos, but when combined with the PG rig and neuts makes for a ~20% dps increase. The offset of course is you loose a chunk of tank, which is quite considerable. The ship just seems to trade off tank for dps in equal chunks, and I cant really see where its an improvement over the hyperion, especially in PvP. Where they are intended to be used, just easily counterable.
edit: ignore the firepower on the kronos, I forgot to add ammo. But the 840 includes the updated dps with faction AM
Ah so you're a liar as well. In your eft pic you had bs 5 for the hyperion and bs 4 for the Kronos(bs 5 gives 37.5% rep bonus, not 30%).
In addition, where does it show that the Kronos is worse than the hyperion by 30% in full tank mode? signature removed - please email us to find out why (include a link to the image URL) - Jacques([email protected]) |
Dave10
Sulithus
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Posted - 2007.11.02 00:01:00 -
[42]
Actually, I think you'll find the rep bonus is on the rank 10 marauder skill, not BS. 30% is a practical amount unless marauder 5 will be a common skill?
In addition, if you read the post, the picture doesnt show that its 30% worse in full tank mode nor did I ever state it did. I said it was worse in the setups that involve magstabs, which if you look at the picture, neither of those do.
Hype fits 1 magstab, Kronos uses extra low to fit another mag stab and fits neutrons, leaving 1 rig slot free for a tank slot. In this setup you get 1196 rep, and due to the lack of extra hardners, the extra resists you see in the picture I linked barely will change the outcome by ~10%, assuming equal damage spread. 1196*1.3 = 1554. Equal damage spread = 20% worse, if EM/EXP, 30% worse
Please do read the posts carefully I'm trying to point out how its not really superior than any existing ships, as it simply trades off dps for tank in equal quantities, and quantities which are not above those of T1 ships. It IS better as a plate gang mega, but thats really about it.
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Dors Venabily
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Posted - 2007.11.02 00:08:00 -
[43]
thx for pointing this out and saving me the agrevation of long training for ship that is hardly better then tier 3 t1 BS
and it goes round and round CCp nerfing the hell out of it btw why they don't use boost tactics rather then nerfing
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
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Posted - 2007.11.02 00:23:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Dors Venabily thx for pointing this out and saving me the agrevation of long training for ship that is hardly better then tier 3 t1 BS
and it goes round and round CCp nerfing the hell out of it btw why they don't use boost tactics rather then nerfing
all the skills are needed for a dread anyways
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Sikozu Prioris
Suns Of Korhal YouWhat
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Posted - 2007.11.02 00:29:00 -
[45]
According to the first dev blog on rev3, rev3 was ment to have some loving for the drone users.
All we got was assist and guard commands and drone bandwidth was just a way for CCP TO NERF GALLENTE
Nearly every ship has the same bandwidth as it does drone bay.
Drone bandwidth was a complete waste of time, a crap feature and a nerf in disguse for gallente "A enemy fleet emerges from the shadows"
- What shadows!?! We're in ****ing space for gods sake
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Gamesguy
Amarr D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.11.02 01:42:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Dave10 Actually, I think you'll find the rep bonus is on the rank 10 marauder skill, not BS. 30% is a practical amount unless marauder 5 will be a common skill?
In addition, if you read the post, the picture doesnt show that its 30% worse in full tank mode nor did I ever state it did. I said it was worse in the setups that involve magstabs, which if you look at the picture, neither of those do.
Hype fits 1 magstab, Kronos uses extra low to fit another mag stab and fits neutrons, leaving 1 rig slot free for a tank slot. In this setup you get 1196 rep, and due to the lack of extra hardners, the extra resists you see in the picture I linked barely will change the outcome by ~10%, assuming equal damage spread. 1196*1.3 = 1554. Equal damage spread = 20% worse, if EM/EXP, 30% worse
Please do read the posts carefully I'm trying to point out how its not really superior than any existing ships, as it simply trades off dps for tank in equal quantities, and quantities which are not above those of T1 ships. It IS better as a plate gang mega, but thats really about it.
Ah so the Kronos tanks worse if you put 2 magstabs instead of using only one like the hyperion. Backpeddle more please.
Fact is, equal damage, the Kronos outtanks the hyperion, case closed. signature removed - please email us to find out why (include a link to the image URL) - Jacques([email protected]) |
Yukisa
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Posted - 2007.11.02 01:51:00 -
[47]
This brings us back to the orginal point..
That is.. what is the point of these marauder ships?
PvE? We don't need a better tank. The current t1 ships have plenty. So would you DEVS folk out 1B for a ship that performs the same or worse than current t1 in missions or npcing.. cos us players certainly wont.
Is it an improvement in current BSes in pvp? Heck no. At that price its an insult.
Back to the drawing boards! This time get rid of the monkeys in the design department or better yet, listen to your player base. We know this game collectively more than you guys given the man hours we spend in it. |
Cur
Dawn of a new Empire Pure.
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Posted - 2007.11.02 02:16:00 -
[48]
Edited by: Cur on 02/11/2007 02:16:32
Originally by: Yukisa This brings us back to the orginal point..
That is.. what is the point of these marauder ships?
PvE? We don't need a better tank.
Perhaps the better tank is for level 5-7 missions and exploration complexes.
"What is best in life?" "To crush your enemies, to see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of their women." |
Gaius Sejanus
Gallente Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2007.11.02 02:20:00 -
[49]
I didn't want a Kronos before...and that's under the rather wild hypothetical of only needing Battleship 4 to pilot it.
I want one even less now.
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icarus braciolini
Omen Incorporated CODE RED ALLIANCE
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Posted - 2007.11.02 02:32:00 -
[50]
faction domi please... For all of us drone users who use drones on missions period.. no reason to buy this ship... gonna buy the golem
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Yukisa
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Posted - 2007.11.02 02:38:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Cur Edited by: Cur on 02/11/2007 02:16:32
Originally by: Yukisa This brings us back to the orginal point..
That is.. what is the point of these marauder ships?
PvE? We don't need a better tank.
Perhaps the better tank is for level 5-7 missions and exploration complexes.
Assuming people will even run those missions. So few run level 5 as it is given its stupidly low rewards and high risk.
I don't see Pvers will be flying a 1B ship in low sec so they can do missions that aren't better income for a lot lower risk.
Marauders fail at pve (gimped dps) and fail horribly at pvp (way too expensive). |
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