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T'Amber
anomandaris demaleon
Vaccaei Imperial
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Posted - 2007.11.05 16:06:00 -
[1]
I happened upon an interesting forum thread while browsing the internet for EVE news and media.
It is definitely worth taking a 5min break and reading what WOW players think of EVE along
with the various views on Leveling Up VS Skill Training and Directed Play VS Self Direction
 Quote:
"So hereÆs the thing: Eve Online is a better model for making an MMO than World Of Warcraft. If someone, right now, was looking for a way to create an interesting MMO they should take Eve as their mechanical gameplay model, and not WoW."
World of EveCraft
(This link will take you to a thread written by Jim Rossignol (Oct 19, 2007) on the Rock, Paper, Shotgun website)
Quote:
No longer is there level 35 cake you canÆt eat because youÆre only level 30
a n o m a n d a r i s . d e m a l e o n
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John McDuff
Caldari
Jovian Labs
Kinetic Maelstrom Alliance
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Posted - 2007.11.05 16:13:00 -
[2]
Quote:
Now that doesnÆt necessarily mean that Eve Online is a better MMO than World Of Warcraft. Eve is messed up and broken in all kinds of outrageous ways, and the PvP-heavy spaceship-centric world design puts most people off the idea completely.
I stopped after this. If "PvP-heavy spaceship-centric" is a big part of the expectation of eve putting ppl off the man can only be a hello kitty fantasy fanboi and his story not worth my time.
---
"Everyone speaks of my drinking, but never of my thirst"
Everyone can now start bowing down to me in an orderly fashion...
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SoftRevolution
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Posted - 2007.11.05 16:16:00 -
[3]
Originally by: John McDuff
Quote:
Now that doesnÆt necessarily mean that Eve Online is a better MMO than World Of Warcraft. Eve is messed up and broken in all kinds of outrageous ways, and the PvP-heavy spaceship-centric world design puts most people off the idea completely.
I stopped after this. If "PvP-heavy spaceship-centric" is a big part of the expectation of eve putting ppl off the man can only be a hello kitty fantasy fanboi and his story not worth my time.
DURF DURF.
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Kazuma Saruwatari
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Posted - 2007.11.05 16:19:00 -
[4]
Sadly, the majority of people out there dont exactly appreciate the harsh "death penalty" EVE offers, whilst more than a few thrive on it, especially if they're winning.
The sad part is, because of the harsh penalties, emotions can spike up a lot more negatively, sooner, than less harsh PvP-based MMO's.
Also, because the balance is tipped in favor of who has the bigger/better/more ships in EVE, it favors someone who's been in the game quite a while. EVE isnt friendly on newbies enough for most people because of this.
Roughly 70-80% of all MMO players favor a PvE/PvP without consequences based game.
-
Odd Pod Out, a blog of EVE Online |
Asestorian
Domination.
|
Posted - 2007.11.05 16:20:00 -
[5]
Originally by: John McDuff
Quote:
Now that doesnÆt necessarily mean that Eve Online is a better MMO than World Of Warcraft. Eve is messed up and broken in all kinds of outrageous ways, and the PvP-heavy spaceship-centric world design puts most people off the idea completely.
I stopped after this. If "PvP-heavy spaceship-centric" is a big part of the expectation of eve putting ppl off the man can only be a hello kitty fantasy fanboi and his story not worth my time.
Actually I think the guy does like EVE. He's just stating facts. EVE's PvP heavy sci-fi theme is not the most appealing thing in the world for the vast majority of MMO players.
---
MOZO
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Verone
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Posted - 2007.11.05 16:21:00 -
[6]
Whoever wrote that is a complete spanner, and has very limited knowledge of the way eve works, if at all.
>>> TRIBUTE TO A FALLEN WINGMAN <<<
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An Anarchyyt
Gallente
Sublime.
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Posted - 2007.11.05 16:23:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Asestorian
Originally by: John McDuff
Quote:
Now that doesnÆt necessarily mean that Eve Online is a better MMO than World Of Warcraft. Eve is messed up and broken in all kinds of outrageous ways, and the PvP-heavy spaceship-centric world design puts most people off the idea completely.
I stopped after this. If "PvP-heavy spaceship-centric" is a big part of the expectation of eve putting ppl off the man can only be a hello kitty fantasy fanboi and his story not worth my time.
Actually I think the guy does like EVE. He's just stating facts. EVE's PvP heavy sci-fi theme is not the most appealing thing in the world for the vast majority of MMO players.
You have to understand, the vast majority of MMO players are casual gamers, who in many cases have never even played many other games before, or have much interest in it. Most of the people I know who play WoW, that is the only game they play, and in many cases, the first.
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
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John McDuff
Caldari
Jovian Labs
Kinetic Maelstrom Alliance
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Posted - 2007.11.05 16:24:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Asestorian
Originally by: John McDuff
Quote:
Now that doesnÆt necessarily mean that Eve Online is a better MMO than World Of Warcraft. Eve is messed up and broken in all kinds of outrageous ways, and the PvP-heavy spaceship-centric world design puts most people off the idea completely.
I stopped after this. If "PvP-heavy spaceship-centric" is a big part of the expectation of eve putting ppl off the man can only be a hello kitty fantasy fanboi and his story not worth my time.
Actually I think the guy does like EVE. He's just stating facts. EVE's PvP heavy sci-fi theme is not the most appealing thing in the world for the vast majority of MMO players.
Doesn't really interest me if he likes eve or not, i have a fundamental problem with discussing game mechanics while putting a value on content. Speaking of which - WOW's PVE heavy fantasy theme is not the most interesting thing in the world either :)
Originally by: SoftRevolution
DURF DURF.
translation?
---
"Everyone speaks of my drinking, but never of my thirst"
Everyone can now start bowing down to me in an orderly fashion...
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Xaen
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2007.11.05 16:25:00 -
[9]
I've been saying it for months, and QFT:
Originally by: Jim Rossignol
Eve is messed up and broken in all kinds of outrageous ways...
[ 11.05.07 11:24:08] (combat) CCP's Lack of Perspective Beam II perfectly strike's CCP's foot, wrecking for 234023029.33 USD.
--
Support fixing the EVE UI
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Sheriff Jones
Amarr
Please Enter Password
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Posted - 2007.11.05 16:26:00 -
[10]
Originally by: An Anarchyyt
You have to understand, the vast majority of MMO players are casual gamers, who in many cases have never even played many other games before, or have much interest in it. Most of the people I know who play WoW, that is the only game they play, and in many cases, the first.
Which is rather funny, 'cause i(a MAJOR MMO player), have found that EVE is probably the first and only casual MMO out there 
My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit. |
An Anarchyyt
Gallente
Sublime.
|
Posted - 2007.11.05 16:28:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Sheriff Jones
Originally by: An Anarchyyt
You have to understand, the vast majority of MMO players are casual gamers, who in many cases have never even played many other games before, or have much interest in it. Most of the people I know who play WoW, that is the only game they play, and in many cases, the first.
Which is rather funny, 'cause i(a MAJOR MMO player), have found that EVE is probably the first and only casual MMO out there
They happen to just casually grind. Sometimes they bump too.
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
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Haniblecter Teg
F.R.E.E. Explorer
Atrum Tempestas Foedus
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Posted - 2007.11.05 16:28:00 -
[12]
Quote:
One of EveÆs failures is the obscurity of its aspirational targets û any game wanting wider appeal needs to present this more clearly.
Interesting read. But I disgree wth a couple finer points, including the above. While alot of hte 'ancillary' skills really do just increase your stats by 5% or less, alot of them are necessary to getting into better ships or using better 'items'.
-----------------
Friends Forever
Kill.
BoB.
Dead. |
T'Amber
anomandaris demaleon
Vaccaei Imperial
|
Posted - 2007.11.05 16:31:00 -
[13]
Edited by: T''Amber on 05/11/2007 16:33:59
Originally by: SoftRevolution
Originally by: John McDuff
Quote:
Now that doesnÆt necessarily mean that Eve Online is a better MMO than World Of Warcraft. Eve is messed up and broken in all kinds of outrageous ways, and the PvP-heavy spaceship-centric world design puts most people off the idea completely.
I stopped after this. If "PvP-heavy spaceship-centric" is a big part of the expectation of eve putting ppl off the man can only be a hello kitty fantasy fanboi and his story not worth my time.
DURF DURF.
It's actually a very well balanced article and the author hasn't let his own point of view taint his subject matter.
The replies are interesting as well and I would suggest short 3min cycles of perusing to pass the time 
a n o m a n d a r i s . d e m a l e o n
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Haniblecter Teg
F.R.E.E. Explorer
Atrum Tempestas Foedus
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Posted - 2007.11.05 16:31:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Kazuma Saruwatari
Sadly, the majority of people out there dont exactly appreciate the harsh "death penalty" EVE offers, whilst more than a few thrive on it, especially if they're winning.
The sad part is, because of the harsh penalties, emotions can spike up a lot more negatively, sooner, than less harsh PvP-based MMO's.
Also, because the balance is tipped in favor of who has the bigger/better/more ships in EVE, it favors someone who's been in the game quite a while. EVE isnt friendly on newbies enough for most people because of this.
Roughly 70-80% of all MMO players favor a PvE/PvP without consequences based game.
Yea, he missed a coupple of hte finer points that seperate EVE and WOW. And the big one I feel is how importnat the death loss is..not just to actual podding here, but how harsh it can be to lose a 00 station, what would be his reasource forts out in th wilderness. New people dont want that kind of drama because:
WOW offers a very colorful chat program that can give you some goals to accomplish that are outside the real world.
EVE gives you blood hunger.
hint, people want the latter.
PS - Love that 3rd post, somtimes, its all you can respond to an idiot.
-----------------
Friends Forever
Kill.
BoB.
Dead. |
Karen Serasia
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Posted - 2007.11.05 16:32:00 -
[15]
The guy seems to be regurgitating stuff that has already been said before.
No level gaps, newbies and vets can work together effectively, wow has more instant gratification and relies mostly on xp Eve has make-your-own targets and relies on money.
Not really anything new said at all to be honest.
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T'Amber
anomandaris demaleon
Vaccaei Imperial
|
Posted - 2007.11.05 16:45:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Stark
I really admire the EvE-Online folks for their persistent skills-based system, I just canÆt seem to stay interested in it past the 14 day trial. 10-20 minutes of intense action followed by 90 minutes of stargate jumping, repeat.
Sounds similar to the last time i had sex, except afterwards I spent 90 minutes trying to get jumpstarted not stargate jump. 
a n o m a n d a r i s . d e m a l e o n
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T'Amber
anomandaris demaleon
Vaccaei Imperial
|
Posted - 2007.11.05 16:58:00 -
[17]
Edited by: T''Amber on 05/11/2007 17:00:08
Originally by: Karen Serasia
The guy seems to be regurgitating stuff that has already been said before.
Not really anything new said at all to be honest.
Yes the content may be old, but that doesn't mean its not new for a reader.
I don't get too much time to read the forums and any posts of similar subject matter have been drowned
beneath all the other thousand threads.
Any links to similar threads please share.
a n o m a n d a r i s . d e m a l e o n
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Arenis Xemdal
Amarr
Obsidian Core
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Posted - 2007.11.05 17:03:00 -
[18]
I read that article last week, and the author is quite the idiot. The fact that WoW is so popular has more to do with Blizzard's penchant for throwing hundreds of developers, millions of dollars, years of development at something until its buffed and shinier than Catherine Bell's glistening tanned body on the flight deck of the USS Enterprise. They took pretty much the worst concepts in MMORPG gaming, and made them more approachable. But at the end of the day, its still a level/xp grind where you bash mobs for phat lewts and preen over high end gear until a new generation of dungeons comes out to render your many hours of grind irrelevant. At the end of the day, you're still keeping customers attracted through addictive and repetitive gameplay rather than social and interactive bonding you might want to see in a virtual world. Hell, at the end of the day, its not even a virtual world - its doing the same exact things Diablo tried only expanding it further.
I am convinced, utterly convinced, that EVE could be just as popular with the same technical support base WoW had, WITHOUT using any of its gameplay elements.
How far back EVE was set because of some early stability, performance, balance and exploit issues is almost frightening to imagine right now. There were points in EVE's history were even tiny simple fixes could have made a massive difference, but were delayed until the next major release.. allowing for up to 6-12 months of game-damaging effect. Its also frightening to imagine what kind of room for expansion and potential EVE still has left in comparison to WoW. And thats just for space. When you throw ambulation and planetary interactions you essentially end up with all of the possible environments that currently exist in our universe, available to developers.
Its one of the reasons I believe EVE developers might be the luckiest bastards in the gaming industry. They essentially get to develop multiple games in the future without constantly laying out the groundwork for each new title, or switching companies.
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Kayna Eelai
Gallente
GNATHIC
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Posted - 2007.11.05 17:08:00 -
[19]
it's a very good read. most of us (the eve players) probably knew it and don't see much sense in writing such a text, but the ones of those 8.5million wow players that have been thinking of eve or heard about it, will find a good read in it.
specially this:
Quote:
You might respond to all this and say: ôbut levelling up gives us something to aim for, the skilling in Eve is so much more nebulous, so to speak. ItÆs better to have quests and a magic horse at level 40 I can aim for. That is why WoW has some many millions of people playing it.ö This is correct, and itÆs another reason why the principles, rather than the execution, of Eve Online are worthy of copying. If you were to base your game on Eve youÆd make skills, items, and equipment both aspiration-worthy and customisation-friendly. ItÆs about presentation as much as mechanics. Many of EveÆs skills are little more than percentage stat increases, so any game wanting Warcraftian appeal needs to make more of these skills have direct and obvious ramifications on characters û pets, mounts and transport, even player owned structures and one-off items. One of EveÆs failures is the obscurity of its aspirational targets û any game wanting wider appeal needs to present this more clearly.
which imho is 101% true and discourages many people from playing eve (which from our point of view can be good... or bad)... if they read it, they will know this before trying the game. if they don't they find this out the hard way: eve is too hardcore for most of the people, and it can become pretty much boring on "short term" than the ones who plan to play eve long term.
fixed to 23.15 kB (23710 bytes) |
Kayna Eelai
Gallente
GNATHIC
|
Posted - 2007.11.05 17:09:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Arenis Xemdal
I read that article last week, and the author is quite the idiot. The fact that WoW is so popular has more to do with Blizzard's penchant for throwing hundreds of developers, millions of dollars, years of development at something until its buffed and shinier than Catherine Bell's glistening tanned body on the flight deck of the USS Enterprise. They took pretty much the worst concepts in MMORPG gaming, and made them more approachable. But at the end of the day, its still a level/xp grind where you bash mobs for phat lewts and preen over high end gear until a new generation of dungeons comes out to render your many hours of grind irrelevant. At the end of the day, you're still keeping customers attracted through addictive and repetitive gameplay rather than social and interactive bonding you might want to see in a virtual world. Hell, at the end of the day, its not even a virtual world - its doing the same exact things Diablo tried only expanding it further.
I am convinced, utterly convinced, that EVE could be just as popular with the same technical support base WoW had, WITHOUT using any of its gameplay elements.
How far back EVE was set because of some early stability, performance, balance and exploit issues is almost frightening to imagine right now. There were points in EVE's history were even tiny simple fixes could have made a massive difference, but were delayed until the next major release.. allowing for up to 6-12 months of game-damaging effect. Its also frightening to imagine what kind of room for expansion and potential EVE still has left in comparison to WoW. And thats just for space. When you throw ambulation and planetary interactions you essentially end up with all of the possible environments that currently exist in our universe, available to developers.
Its one of the reasons I believe EVE developers might be the luckiest bastards in the gaming industry. They essentially get to develop multiple games in the future without constantly laying out the groundwork for each new title, or switching companies.
fanboi much? lol.
fixed to 23.15 kB (23710 bytes) |
Seeing EyeDog
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Posted - 2007.11.05 17:12:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Xaen
I've been saying it for months, and QFT:
Originally by: Jim Rossignol
Eve is messed up and broken in all kinds of outrageous ways...
[ 11.05.07 11:24:08] (combat) CCP's Lack of Perspective Beam II perfectly strike's CCP's foot, wrecking for 234023029.33 USD.
and you're still here...can i have your stuff??
_____________________
Originally by: Locus Bey
Intelligence isn't a prequisite for being a Goon, in fact its a deficit.
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Kaakao
Insidious Existence
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
|
Posted - 2007.11.05 17:25:00 -
[22]
What I would like to see in WoW is eve like market. WoW has no market to speak of and crafting skills are almost worthless. It takes gazillions of gold or months of time to grind grafring skills to 375 (? I sstopped playing before tbc) and they only give your money back if you get the most rare recipies.
----
wtb signature |
Reem Fairchild
Minmatar
Republic University
|
Posted - 2007.11.05 17:31:00 -
[23]
Quote:
Now that doesnÆt necessarily mean that Eve Online is a better MMO than World Of Warcraft. Eve is messed up and broken in all kinds of outrageous ways, and the PvP-heavy spaceship-centric world design puts most people off the idea completely.
Total and complete moronic drivel right there.
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zwiss
StateCorp
The State
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Posted - 2007.11.05 17:31:00 -
[24]
Edited by: zwiss on 05/11/2007 17:33:42
The author of that particular piece of writing has been playing Eve since launch. And, let's face it, the PvP and spaceship stuff *does* put a lot of people off. They'd rather buff their elves.
Oh, and reading the entire article reveals it's pro-Eve, and not pro-WoW at all.
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Shevar
Minmatar
A.W.M
Ka-Tet
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Posted - 2007.11.05 17:40:00 -
[25]
Originally by: T'Amber
I happened upon an interesting forum thread while browsing the internet for EVE news and media.
It is definitely worth taking a 5min break and reading what WOW players think of EVE along
with the various views on Leveling Up VS Skill Training and Directed Play VS Self Direction
Quote:
"So hereÆs the thing: Eve Online is a better model for making an MMO than World Of Warcraft. If someone, right now, was looking for a way to create an interesting MMO they should take Eve as their mechanical gameplay model, and not WoW."
World of EveCraft
(This link will take you to a thread written by Jim Rossignol (Oct 19, 2007) on the Rock, Paper, Shotgun website)
Quote:
No longer is there level 35 cake you canÆt eat because youÆre only level 30
There is a difference between being able of being the most popular MMO with 6 million subscribers and having the most interesting concept.
Luckily for us I doubt CCP really wants 6 million subscribers, they always have had a niche part of the market and I really hope that they will be content with that.
---
-The only real drug problem is scoring real good drugs |
Aurinkokuningas
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Posted - 2007.11.05 17:41:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Kaakao
What I would like to see in WoW is eve like market. WoW has no market to speak of and crafting skills are almost worthless. It takes gazillions of gold or months of time to grind grafring skills to 375 (? I sstopped playing before tbc) and they only give your money back if you get the most rare recipies.
Pfft, carebear stuff 
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Kayna Eelai
Gallente
GNATHIC
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Posted - 2007.11.05 17:42:00 -
[27]
Originally by: zwiss
Oh, and reading the entire article reveals it's pro-Eve, and not pro-WoW at all.
exactly, but most ppl. here didn't make it past the 2nd paragraph before coming back here and flaming away.
fixed to 23.15 kB (23710 bytes) |
Kayna Eelai
Gallente
GNATHIC
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Posted - 2007.11.05 17:42:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Kaakao
What I would like to see in WoW is eve like market. WoW has no market to speak of and crafting skills are almost worthless. It takes gazillions of gold or months of time to grind grafring skills to 375 (? I sstopped playing before tbc) and they only give your money back if you get the most rare recipies.
lol and how many month does it take to get a eve char into INVENTION exactly, huh?
fixed to 23.15 kB (23710 bytes) |
Reem Fairchild
Minmatar
Republic University
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Posted - 2007.11.05 17:47:00 -
[29]
Originally by: zwiss
Edited by: zwiss on 05/11/2007 17:33:42
let's face it, the PvP and spaceship stuff *does* put a lot of people off. They'd rather buff their elves.
That's not the only part of the quoted paragraph that I think is moronic drivel.
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Kayna Eelai
Gallente
GNATHIC
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Posted - 2007.11.05 17:50:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Kayna Eelai on 05/11/2007 17:50:08
Originally by: Reem Fairchild
He can be "pro-Eve" and still be a complete moron. There's no necessary contradiction there.
and you know he is a moron coz you've read 3 lines of his 4 pages text, right?
in fact, in my opinion, a moron is some1 who calls others moron.
fixed to 23.15 kB (23710 bytes) |
Cabbs Babbage
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Posted - 2007.11.05 17:51:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Reem Fairchild
Quote:
Now that doesnÆt necessarily mean that Eve Online is a better MMO than World Of Warcraft. Eve is messed up and broken in all kinds of outrageous ways, and the PvP-heavy spaceship-centric world design puts most people off the idea completely.
Total and complete moronic drivel right there.
Whats that? Are you saying that Eve exceeds WoW in every single mmo aspect, and not just most of them? And that it is not broken in all sorts of horrendous ways? Explain yourself.
|
Sheriff Jones
Amarr
Please Enter Password
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Posted - 2007.11.05 17:59:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Kayna Eelai
Edited by: Kayna Eelai on 05/11/2007 17:50:08
Originally by: Reem Fairchild
He can be "pro-Eve" and still be a complete moron. There's no necessary contradiction there.
and you know he is a moron coz you've read 3 lines of his 4 pages text, right?
in fact, in my opinion, a moron is some1 who calls others moron.
Doesn't that, by some weird twist of forums, make you call yourself a moron? 
My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit. |
Demje
|
Posted - 2007.11.05 17:59:00 -
[33]
Edited by: Demje on 05/11/2007 18:00:27
and the problem is its these casual gamers who come to eve, hate how things are, and whine until CCP nerfs wardecs and other methods of controlling space and generally removes large isk sinks and real PVP from the game, particularly in empire, leaving it consensual PVP based, which is just like WoW. This is another factor contributing to the fact that eve is turning into Capitals online. I would go so far as to say having a capital here is like having a T3 set of armor in WoW, and a battleship is like a purple epic weapon. anyone can get it, and the people who have the means to own one, arent worried about where they will get another.
There's no consensual in true PVP.
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Reem Fairchild
Minmatar
Republic University
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Posted - 2007.11.05 18:01:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Kayna Eelai
Edited by: Kayna Eelai on 05/11/2007 17:50:08
Originally by: Reem Fairchild
He can be "pro-Eve" and still be a complete moron. There's no necessary contradiction there.
and you know he is a moron coz you've read 3 lines of his 4 pages text, right?
I read the entire thing.
Quote:
in fact, in my opinion, a moron is some1 who calls others moron.
He is what he is no matter what I call him or don't call him. In my opinion he is a moron.
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Reem Fairchild
Minmatar
Republic University
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Posted - 2007.11.05 18:02:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Cabbs Babbage
Originally by: Reem Fairchild
Quote:
Now that doesnÆt necessarily mean that Eve Online is a better MMO than World Of Warcraft. Eve is messed up and broken in all kinds of outrageous ways, and the PvP-heavy spaceship-centric world design puts most people off the idea completely.
Total and complete moronic drivel right there.
Whats that? Are you saying that Eve exceeds WoW in every single mmo aspect, and not just most of them? And that it is not broken in all sorts of horrendous ways? Explain yourself.
Yes, I do not think Eve is "broken" in any really significant way at all. And if it is, it is certainly the least broken of any other game out there at the moment.
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An Anarchyyt
Gallente
Sublime.
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Posted - 2007.11.05 18:07:00 -
[36]
What is most amazing, is all the people here, and apparently the writer of this article are playing Eve even though it is broken in all these "outrageous" ways.
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
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Snake Jankins
Minmatar
German Cyberdome Corp
Cult of War
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Posted - 2007.11.05 18:24:00 -
[37]
The author has a point.
If I log into an mmorpg, I want to experience an immersive virtual 'living' world/universe, inhabited by other human controlled characters. I want to experience an alternative exiting virtual life that's different to the one I have with different goals. I want to virtually 'live' in such an environment that I otherwise only know from the cinema and experience it together with friends.
I don't play for a level-char-and-collect-items contest to pose with that later.
I expect to enter another dimension with friends and be in the middle of a booklike exiting immersive story that writes itself , meet people/friends and where we can make a change.
I think that is one of his points.
Imho probably most players are maybe not ready for that yet. They prefer a diablo like static world and just hack and slay monsters and collect stuff.
Imho that's nice for a single player game to relax a bit. But if I subscribe to something, I want another universe, where everything that people do gets some real meaning.
Grinding to lvl.100 over months to show off with the ultra-super-duper-sword-of-unbelievable-power is a waste of time in my eyes. But most games still work this way.
I expect a total-recall like experience. Enter another world, that feels real, get sucked in by the story and the dynamics that other players create and dive into action and conflict with friends and follow goals and make decision that make a difference in that world and change it, like it is in RL.
Only few games go into this direction so far.
Maybe people are not ready yet. If I subscribe to an MMORPG, I expect more than diablo-like hack&slay, yet most mmorpgs are basically still that.
___________
I've never been so serious as I am now. No, really. |
Stuart Price
Caldari
Havoc Inc
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Posted - 2007.11.05 18:25:00 -
[38]
Bear in mind that the author of the article has been playing Eve for a LONG time, slightly longer than me since it was the review of Eve in PC Gamer along with the free copy of the client on the disk that got me here in the first place.
So he has likely seen/used the following things:
1. Invul-shield tanked Apocs.
2. Dual-MWD torp-ravens.
3. Gankageddons (8 Heat Sinks without stacking penalty = instadeath for ANYTHING in range).
4. BM libraries from a Time Before WTZero.
5. Cruise-kessies suicide ganking bs's in highsec.
6. Cruise+Autotargetter Ravens 1-volleying 3+ frigs within 2 seconds of the engagement.
And will know about all the various changes since those days. Now there's no argument that things were incredibly broken back then and while the game continues to evolve and attempt to level the playing field, the developers are always going to run up against the biggest hurdle of all - the player base. I'm pretty sure the devs didn't foresee ANY of the above six things happening until players did them. Same with nos-domi's and, currently, nanofits.
For me their are parts of the game that are very broken but I have every confidence that they will be sorted AND more to the point, I still prefer this to anything else around, warts and all.
Now then CCP, fix lowsec! Start by moving all level 4+ agents into lowsec, move all the decent hihjsec ores into lowsec and fix the aggression timers! Oh yeah, and give the Eagle an extra turret.
A talking, flying pony would be nice while you're at it.
"I got soul but I'm not a soldier" |
Surreptitious
Isk Sink Inc.
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Posted - 2007.11.05 18:35:00 -
[39]
Edited by: Surreptitious on 05/11/2007 18:35:53
It's like arguing which LCD TV is best. They all have their shortcomings and ultimately the rule of "to each his own" should apply. Noone is an idiot for playing one or the other and some of the ridiculous fanboi comments posted on both forums make me laugh and actually pitty the person for being so wrapped up in a videogame.
In the end theres two perspectives. The player side and the business side. WOW wins the business side hands down, no-one could possibly argue the profitability WOW has created. Regarding the player side, well thats a toss up because,,,, to each his own.
I play both and for me personally the only time EVE is more fun is during those intense PVP battles. WOW cant touch that feeling with a stick but considering how often or easy those "fun" times are to come by in EVE I can't say that as w whole its more enjoyable or that it "wins".
Syrup
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Arenis Xemdal
Amarr
Obsidian Core
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Posted - 2007.11.05 18:41:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Kayna Eelai
fanboi much? lol.
A fanboi is someone who thinks the game is perfect, and praises the company regardless of what they do. I don't, and think CCP have sold out to mainstream beliefs of what a MMO should be in many aspects. That doesn't mean the concept behind EVE is any less admirable or superior, and it doesn't mean the potential that was there has vanished. So kindly shut your mouth the next time you consider spewing witty one-liners.
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Cabbs Babbage
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Posted - 2007.11.05 18:43:00 -
[41]
Edited by: Cabbs Babbage on 05/11/2007 18:46:00
Originally by: Reem Fairchild
Yes, I do not think Eve is "broken" in any really significant way at all. And if it is, it is certainly the least broken of any other game out there at the moment.
Eve *is* broken in all sorts of ways. Eve is so damn complicated and huge that to think all these (changing-per-patch) features mesh together without some serious flaws is staggeringly ignorant. Blob warfare that everyone hates? sometimes bizarre Concord behavior? FOTM and useless ship classes? Nano setups on the 'wrong' ships? POS exploits concerning server downtime? The fact Eve is fully functioning is a testament to how brilliant the game is. But the fact remains:
Wow is less broken than Eve Because Wow has less to break. Generally, when you have so many features that link together, the tiny flaws tend to multiply. Perfecting Eve is either impossible, or very very complicated. See above 'Eve is still brilliant' comment.
EDIT: Also, Arenis's post.
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Janu Hull
Caldari
Order of Z Industries
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Posted - 2007.11.05 18:58:00 -
[42]
EVE can be pretty casual, its just a matter of how you choose to pace your gameplay. God knows there was a stretch of four months where I logged in maybe once every three weeks, just to monitor skill training, maybe running a mission or two, before going off to do something else.
The PvP side of things is extremely intense, usually requiring a significant investment of time to stay in the loop to compete in. But the PvE side? If you're smart about your choices, you can play this game and read a book without breaking a sweat. Ratting, mining, mission running, crafting, transport work occassionally gets rough (if you don't use that mush between your ears), but there's a very strong casual side to EVE that makes for a nice change of pace after a bad case of PvP burn settles in.
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T'Amber
anomandaris demaleon
Vaccaei Imperial
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Posted - 2007.11.05 18:59:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Shevar
There is a difference between being able of being the most popular MMO with 6 million subscribers and having the most interesting concept.
Luckily for us I doubt CCP really wants 6 million subscribers, they always have had a niche part of the market and I really hope that they will be content with that.
I'll second that. Could you imagine Eve with more 15year old boys pretending to be 18year old girls??
I can just imagine what it would be like now! Ok, we'd have better servers and CCP would have more money to throw around, but the effect on the community?? Hmmmm  Don't get me wrong either, alot of the time it can be the older players causing the grief.
I used to run a few BBSs back in the late 80s and I sometimes wish things were like they were back then. When I read replies and posts on the internet, whether its in a forum or on YouTube, I often cringe and wonder what happened to maturity, consideration and acceptance, constructive conversation and respectable behavior??
(I would include grammar but I'd be shooting myself in the foot)
I don't care what CCP nerfs, removes/ introduces or even what they choose to spend their time developing, as long they don't let EVE drop 10 years in average player age and maturity.
internet (n)
- A computer network consisting of a worldwide network of computer networks that use the TCP/IP network protocols to facilitate data transmission and exchange [syn: cyberspace]
- Two 40year old men pretending to be 16year old girls; having a l*****n relationship together.
/me 's head explodes
a n o m a n d a r i s . d e m a l e o n
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Snake Jankins
Minmatar
German Cyberdome Corp
Cult of War
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Posted - 2007.11.05 19:34:00 -
[44]
Edited by: Snake Jankins on 05/11/2007 19:36:51
Originally by: T'Amber
I'll second that. Could you imagine Eve with more 15year old boys pretending to be 18year old girls??
I'd prefer to play mmorpgs on a combined pvp/rp server, where that RL stuff stays out, except when friends decide to talk to eachother.
In Neocron I've been role-playing a nun for some months, who got dragged into a conflict and joined the rebels in their fight.
I had lots of fun doing that, lots of rp, lots of pvp together with my mates. It was great !
Had also made some good friends on the enemy side, out-of-character of course, ingame we kept killing us. 
After a few months my best game-mate on the enemy side asked me, if I'm really a girl. He had asked already sometimes before, but I evaded, because I saw it as an immersion breaker.
That day I told him the truth.
Until then I kept it as a secret to most people, except my clan mates. Those knew also my other male character tank with plasma gun, when I was in the mood to play that one.
But I wanted to experience my little rp-pvp-story in that game with my female nun char. I gave a crap, who some stranger was in RL and didn't tell strangers anything about my rl, if I was in character. I just didn't want to leave the immersion and switch to OOC.
Someday I decided to stop rp'ing and then I didn't care much anymore. Although someone flaming me as 'Stupid cow' (female) or talking about me as 'biatch' in that game later in pvp felt always great and so in-char. 
So well, be aware. If someone with a female char seems female, but evades RL questions, could be me in the mood to roleplay with a new character ... and I'm over 30.
___________
I've never been so serious as I am now. No, really. |
Danton Marcellus
Nebula Rasa Holdings
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Posted - 2007.11.05 19:36:00 -
[45]
No-one wants EVE to be as popular as WoW, can you imagine one server with millions on it? You'd have to pre-order modules from Jita a few weeks in advance.
Should/would/could have, HAVE you chav!
Also Known As |
Dilligaf Really
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Posted - 2007.11.05 20:40:00 -
[46]
I kinda like WoW more cause my whole week/month/6months iosnt destroyed when I Lag out in a fight an/or get killed. Here, unless the GMs agree that you got lagged out or node crashed etc etc then you go back to the week/month/6month grind to get the ship again and all the time till now is ruined.
I HATE WoW more cause im sick of the damned grind grind grind to get to 70 and then having little or nothing to DO AT 70. you grind yer character to 70 then you start over. For me, I can only do this so many times before i just give up.
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SiJira
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Posted - 2007.11.05 22:10:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Kazuma Saruwatari
Sadly, the majority of people out there dont exactly appreciate the harsh "death penalty" EVE offers, whilst more than a few thrive on it, especially if they're winning.
The sad part is, because of the harsh penalties, emotions can spike up a lot more negatively, sooner, than less harsh PvP-based MMO's.
Also, because the balance is tipped in favor of who has the bigger/better/more ships in EVE, it favors someone who's been in the game quite a while. EVE isnt friendly on newbies enough for most people because of this.
Roughly 70-80% of all MMO players favor a PvE/PvP without consequences based game.
and thus this allows something to really look forward to
it allows all your - building - in the game to mean something since it can be lost
ive talked to the grizzly veterans of wow
they grind for new gear week after week and try out the lame additions blizzard gives like arena tournaments
they only play because they are so uber in items and they dont want to be newbs at some other mmorpg
the only people that feel this way in eve are probably ex wow players since they still cant understand the game or what there is to do in it - and they happen to usually be the mission runners
____ __ ________
_sig below_
devs and gms cant modify my sig if they tried!
_lies above_
CCP Morpheus was here 
Morpheus Fails. You need colors!! -Kaemonn
[yellow]Kaem |
Kayna Eelai
Gallente
GNATHIC
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Posted - 2007.11.05 22:20:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Dilligaf Really
I HATE WoW more cause im sick of the damned grind grind grind to get to 70 and then having little or nothing to DO AT 70. you grind yer character to 70 then you start over. For me, I can only do this so many times before i just give up.
been there, done that. let me argue with it:
- grind to lvl70: i enjoy leveling chars the most. if done with 1 single friend, it is total fun too. specially if u drink while lvling ;) the grind in wow to lvl70 is not even 1% as bad as the boring grind in eve for the real good skills. large turret to lvl5: 22 days WTF? skillplan to fly a carrier 185 days LOL? it's a GAME, I don't even know if i'll still be playing this stuff in 22 or 185 days (not asking here for easy pew pew skills for every1, just trying to make my point a little clearer)
- game over: you're absolutely wrong. i've raid and guild lead a "casual friendly raiding guild" for over 2 years. game STARTS at lvl70, u just need to get into the right guild. much like eve: if u don't find a nice corp fast, you'll get bored pretty soon.
fixed to 23.15 kB (23710 bytes) |
SiJira
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Posted - 2007.11.05 22:22:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Kayna Eelai
much like eve: if u don't find a nice corp fast, you'll get bored pretty soon.
this might depend on the person or the definition of corp
most npc corps are great and ive sampled every race and profession npc corp
____ __ ________
_sig below_
devs and gms cant modify my sig if they tried!
_lies above_
CCP Morpheus was here
Morpheus Fails. You need colors!! -Kaemonn
[yellow]Kaem |
Kayna Eelai
Gallente
GNATHIC
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Posted - 2007.11.05 22:23:00 -
[50]
Edited by: Kayna Eelai on 05/11/2007 22:23:35
Originally by: SiJira
ive talked to the grizzly veterans of wow
they grind for new gear week after week and try out the lame additions blizzard gives like arena tournaments
i'd like to know to what noobish "veterans" you've talked.
my wife is in europeans top10 (pve progression wise) -top16 worldwide- guild and she is pretty happy with the game. maybe you should ask some1 else, get more opinions and get a CLUE before generalizing?
fixed to 23.15 kB (23710 bytes) |
SiJira
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Posted - 2007.11.05 22:24:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Kayna Eelai
Edited by: Kayna Eelai on 05/11/2007 22:23:35
Originally by: SiJira
ive talked to the grizzly veterans of wow
they grind for new gear week after week and try out the lame additions blizzard gives like arena tournaments
i'd like to know to what noobish "veterans" you've talked.
my wife is in europeans top10 (pve progression wise) -top16 worldwide- guild and she is pretty happy with the game. maybe you should ask some1 else, get more opinions and get a CLUE before generalizing?
your wife is 1 person
ive talked to over 50 wow veterans
face reality
____ __ ________
_sig below_
devs and gms cant modify my sig if they tried!
_lies above_
CCP Morpheus was here
Morpheus Fails. You need colors!! -Kaemonn
[yellow]Kaem |
Kayna Eelai
Gallente
GNATHIC
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Posted - 2007.11.05 22:32:00 -
[52]
Originally by: SiJira
your wife is 1 person
ive talked to over 50 wow veterans
face reality
lol
reality?
1) reality is that my WIFE is 1 person, yes. but she certainly did not achieve top16 worldwide PVE wise ALONE, ok? nor any other person in a guild.
2) reality is i've guild and raid lead a guild for over 2 years... many people come and go... i'd say much more than just "50"
3) reality is, my wife is a REAL veteran so to say... i'd like to say to what kind of "average joes" you talked to... i bet they just dinged 70 and didn't even know how a lvl70 epic item looks like.
/me loves clueless smarta$$ing bigmouthers
fixed to 23.15 kB (23710 bytes) |
Orree
Gallente
Shiva
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2007.11.05 22:53:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Kayna Eelai
Originally by: SiJira
your wife is 1 person
ive talked to over 50 wow veterans
face reality
lol
reality?
1) reality is that my WIFE is 1 person, yes. but she certainly did not achieve top16 worldwide PVE wise ALONE, ok? nor any other person in a guild.
2) reality is i've guild and raid lead a guild for over 2 years... many people come and go... i'd say much more than just "50"
3) reality is, my wife is a REAL veteran so to say... i'd like to say to what kind of "average joes" you talked to... i bet they just dinged 70 and didn't even know how a lvl70 epic item looks like.
/me loves clueless smarta$$ing bigmouthers
I'd be willing to bet that neither of you guys' sample sizes would produce a statistically significant result in a survey.
"How much easier it is to be critical than to be correct." ---Benjamin Disraeli |
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