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Singularity: Jump freighters now on the market in FD-MLJ

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Mechanikus Battlestars GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.11.06 16:07:00 - [31] This is the worst ship EVER! Who do you expect to fly this thing and test it for you. Who in their right mind would ever, EVER, train Freighter 5?? Massive failure on CCP's part, take your ship and go home, we don't want it.
Eleana Tomelac Gallente Through the Looking Glass	Posted - 2007.11.06 16:26:00 - [32] Sooo, it's training a rank 10 skill at 5, paying from 3 to 8 billions for a ship with smaller cargohold? Wait, isn't it faster (cheaper) to build a titan and use jump portal if you need the equivalent of 5 standard freighters? Titan logistics wins? -- Pocket drone carriers (tm) enthousiast ! Say hello to my tiny friends !
Tonto Auri	Posted - 2007.11.06 16:45:00 - [33] Edited by: Tonto Auri on 06/11/2007 16:45:50 Originally by: Lock out Originally by: AMD383 Edited by: AMD383 on 05/11/2007 23:08:09 look at this and then at this and then you see it it's more then 2.4b isk i understand this whats Anathema post abaut 9b isk .... Capital Comonents have 100x for low end and 10x for high end components. I melted a t2 freighter on sisi today, and with perfect refining the parts are worth about 2.2bil... so considering the waste on the bpcs, 2.4 seems about right. Those t2 cap component bpos look nasty though, I wonder how much they're going to cost. Typical wastage factor on T2 ship BPC is about 30-40%. I saw 80% wasted BPC. So, for 2.2 multiplyed by 1.4... 3 billions? Get it twice to cover invention... 6 billions MINIMUM for one freighter? And 12-15 bill to sell it? Who want to buy this **** for 12 bil? It just not worth that many. -- Thanks CCP for cu<end of sig>
infinityshok	Posted - 2007.11.06 16:45:00 - [34] Originally by: Mechanikus This is the worst ship EVER! Who do you expect to fly this thing and test it for you. Who in their right mind would ever, EVER, train Freighter 5?? Massive failure on CCP's part, take your ship and go home, we don't want it. Signed. CCCPs staff shortages are at the point theyre hiring from the local homeless crak addict population. That is the only plausible explanation for this sorry excuse for a ship.
Levrin Atischa	Posted - 2007.11.06 17:24:00 - [35] Well they will have there uses. At least I hope they can use regular gates. The replies so far have not been all equaly constructive. Looking at the the stats and considering the skilltime + buildcost its probably going to be economicly more viable to use a rorqual with extenders and cap rechargers for transporting stuff using a jump engine. If one compairs the two: jumpfreighter: Fuel: ~ 2700 cargo:~ 270k m3 cap: ~ 360s rorqual: Fuel: 1000 cargo: 126k m3 (with t1 rigs and t2 expanders) cap: ~820s (with t2 cap rechargers) The jump range is the same. The rorqual will be cheaper in purchase and have less fuell consumption per m3 even with lvl 4 in jump freighter. It will have to travel two times to move the same amount. The training time is about the same but here two a rorqual is more efficient in the skills as you get mining barge lvl 5 for free instead of the long freighter lvl 5 skill . And the rorqual has more functionality. besides hauling wich will make it a more solid investment. If one has to move a large quantitiy of materials a jump bridge might be more usefull but as it stands i dont know if freighters can use them and what the cost would be. Looking at the jump freighters they need to have a little bit more space to make them compatitive as jump haulers and be able to fullfill there role.
bluecheast Four Rings Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.06 17:34:00 - [36] I had no idea such a bad design could be even imagined on LSD or something, Im pretty sure ccp will realize the mistakes and fix em, if not Ill be amazed ------------------------- (Our Forums)
Ket Halpak Cold-Fury Southern Cross Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.07 06:36:00 - [37] I am curious to know why tech t2 was chosen over teir 2. For the high skill requirements, I have an alt that has had amarr freighter 5 for a while now and already meets the skill requirements (except jump freighter 1), so I think I'll test these out on sisi tonight. Can a dev please shed any light on this as I am genuinly curious to find out.
Anathema Matou Moonmaiden Ltd. Avateas Blessed	Posted - 2007.11.08 09:47:00 - [38] Aye, that's the basic question Halpak. At least I can now assume I haven't overlooked "the great thing" because it just isn't there. The thing is, this ship doesn't really have any t2 attributes at all, apart from the 10% (sic!) resistance bonus. Jump drives are t1, and a speed-bonus in exchange for cargo space isn't exactly t2 either.
Nyack GREY COUNCIL Cruel Intentions	Posted - 2007.11.08 10:04:00 - [39] Originally by: Eleana Tomelac Sooo, it's training a rank 10 skill at 5, paying from 3 to 8 billions for a ship with smaller cargohold? Wait, isn't it faster (cheaper) to build a titan and use jump portal if you need the equivalent of 5 standard freighters? Titan logistics wins? nope t1 freighters will get huge mass increase which will make em cost tons to jump bridge
Eleana Tomelac Gallente Through the Looking Glass	Posted - 2007.11.08 10:13:00 - [40] Originally by: Nyack Originally by: Eleana Tomelac Sooo, it's training a rank 10 skill at 5, paying from 3 to 8 billions for a ship with smaller cargohold? Wait, isn't it faster (cheaper) to build a titan and use jump portal if you need the equivalent of 5 standard freighters? Titan logistics wins? nope t1 freighters will get huge mass increase which will make em cost tons to jump bridge It has been increased, but a dev said it was wrong values that should be reverted... Maybe he mistaked, but in case the values are back to normal as he says, it should be fine. The mass increase was 10x. I don't know how much it uses, I don't know how much it costs tu jump portal a freighter, I only know that the change did 10x. But for alliances with already a titan and pack of freighters, I'm not sure buying jump freighters will be a good investment. Need to see what huge amount of cargo you can move at these costs before paying as much as a jump freighter... -- Pocket drone carriers (tm) enthousiast ! Say hello to my tiny friends !
benze Caldari Perkone	Posted - 2007.11.08 11:36:00 - [41] The freighters cost 800M without BPC, the add to construct the T2 cost near 1B, 600M of capital components T2 and 300M of capital components. But the invention and the bpc of the new component T2 will heavily increase the prize, because of this cap compo T2 bpo will surely cost near 1B each. with all skill at 4, you consume near 2X more than a rorqual for a quantity of materials near 240K for rorqual, 280K for the jump freigthers. But the advantage of the jump freighters is that it can use gate(atm in the test that work) and it can jump directly in 0.0 from 1.0. So you need a 0.4 only for the returns in empire, you jump on a cyno alt in empire, warp on gate, jump, you re in empire. And the second is tthat you can take repakage ship and 5 bs in the same time. Rorqual is atm better than it but when the jump freigthers prize will be slowly(and the skills needed really stronger than rorqual), it will be more interressant. So when CCP will invent an other capital T2 to decrease the prize of the capital components T2? Titan T2, lol
Tres Farmer	Posted - 2007.11.08 11:47:00 - [42] Originally by: Levrin Atischa Well they will have there uses. At least I hope they can use regular gates. Yes they can! :) You can fly with those JF's through normal gates.. means you can WTZ at every damn low-sec-entry/exit system and get out of low-sec to high-sec very secure. And back to low-sec/.0 works also fine with cyno-jump. As I don't have JumpCalibration on my frighter pilot I was only able to jump max 5ly, but the test was from Chesiette (a .6 system in placid) to M2-CF1 (.0). Works like a charm. So, you here got a hauler, which can AVOID gate-camps, for 3 times the price of a normal frighter and a cargo bay of 30% of that, with skillrequs which are manageable for industrialists (compare rorqu to t2 frighter), who should run those stuff.. sounds damn right for me. Originally by: Levrin Atischa The replies so far have not been all equaly constructive. Looking at the the stats and considering the skilltime + buildcost its probably going to be economicly more viable to use a rorqual with extenders and cap rechargers for transporting stuff using a jump engine. If one compairs the two: jumpfreighter: Fuel: ~ 2700 cargo:~ 270k m3 cap: ~ 360s rorqual: Fuel: 1000 cargo: 126k m3 (with t1 rigs and t2 expanders) cap: ~820s (with t2 cap rechargers) The jump range is the same. The rorqual will be cheaper in purchase and have less fuell consumption per m3 even with lvl 4 in jump freighter. It will have to travel two times to move the same amount. The training time is about the same but here two a rorqual is more efficient in the skills as you get mining barge lvl 5 for free instead of the long freighter lvl 5 skill . And the rorqual has more functionality. besides hauling wich will make it a more solid investment. Hm.. my frighter pilot was able to fly the t2 frighter after 1hr 30mins.. rorqual will take WAYY longer. Let's do a skill comparison: JF: racial frighter (5) -racial industrial (5) -advanced spc shp cmd (1) jump frighters (1) -industry (5) .. same as rorqu -advanced spc shp cmd (4) CMS: capital industrial shp (1) -adv spc shp cmd (5) ..RED -mining barge (5) ..RED --industry (5) --astrogeology (3) -cap shps (2) --adv spc shp cmd (5) ..RED cap shps (2) -adv spc shp cmd (5) ..RED jump drive op (1) -naigation (5) ..RED -warp drive op (5) ..RED Most of the stuff for the rorqu is actually RED for my frighter pilot.. where as he could step into the JF within 1hr. And if I look at advanced spaceship (5), mining barge (5), navigation (5) and warp drive op (5) and comepare this to racial frighter (5), my bets are, that more people will decide FOR a JF instead of a CMS if they need to haul stuff over large distances. Even more so, as the FJ can ENTER HIGH SEC, where as the CMS can't. BIG diasadvantage, if ya ask me.. So, the moment I can afford a JF, I'll have one, that's for sure. I'll add some comment later about the cap usage for large jumps and it's possible distance from high sec (Diaderi -> M2-CF1) 4.88 lightyears (0.8 -> 0.0)..
Tres Farmer	Posted - 2007.11.08 12:46:00 - [43] Originally by: Tres Farmer I'll add some comment later about the cap usage for large jumps and it's possible distance from high sec (Diaderi -> M2-CF1) 4.88 lightyears (0.8 -> 0.0).. Works fine (Diaderi -> M2-CF1). Capacitor after this large jump was at less than 5%.. but I think cap-pilots are used to this. Some kind of cap reacharger (mid-slot(s)/rigg-slot(s)) would be cool to have, at least compared to other ships capable of jumping through cynos. As I don't have numbers, what's the fastest time you can achieve for the next jump, after cap was at 0% with other capitals, which could be used as frighter?
Virtuozzo InterGalactic Corp. Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.11.08 13:50:00 - [44] These ships will die so horribly when using cyno generators to jump to the way people now use carriers :P
Kerfira	Posted - 2007.11.08 14:01:00 - [45] Originally by: Virtuozzo These ships will die so horribly when using cyno generators to jump to the way people now use carriers :P If jumping without a scout in destination system, or jumping to a system where there're hostiles in local (even just one) and no covering fleet..... ...they bloody well deserve to die horribly Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
Maliber Art of War Cult of War	Posted - 2007.11.08 14:49:00 - [46] the skill requirement will be lowered to freighter lvl 4 at least that was stated in this thread. This means that the biggest drawback is gone, ppl will be able to use the jump freighters with less skills. Wich is a plus for the jump freighter and a good move imho.
Virtuozzo InterGalactic Corp. Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.11.08 15:21:00 - [47] Originally by: Kerfira Originally by: Virtuozzo These ships will die so horribly when using cyno generators to jump to the way people now use carriers :P If jumping without a scout in destination system, or jumping to a system where there're hostiles in local (even just one) and no covering fleet..... ...they bloody well deserve to die horribly Hehe :-) But not even that, these days folks leave people around logged off, park in side systems, log in two jumps out, T2 freighters without a serious logistics escort are silly. With their speed and hitpoints a good BS group can kill one with ease from outside scrambler range before it gets inside the shields :P Don't get me wrong, I like this bit. It will force people to do the shipping in teams even more, and make POS more of a combat environment for Gank 2.0 :P
Eleana Tomelac Gallente Through the Looking Glass	Posted - 2007.11.08 15:57:00 - [48] Originally by: Tres Farmer Capacitor after this large jump was at less than 5%.. but I think cap-pilots are used to this. Some kind of cap reacharger (mid-slot(s)/rigg-slot(s)) would be cool to have, at least compared to other ships capable of jumping through cynos. As I don't have numbers, what's the fastest time you can achieve for the next jump, after cap was at 0% with other capitals, which could be used as frighter? Seems like a jump freighter capacitor is much better than a rorqual's cap with full cap recharger fitting. So, the recharge time is reasonable, much better than any cap ship in game. The ETA for next jump will not be your issue here I think. Here figure as stated before : Originally by: Levrin Atischa jumpfreighter: Fuel: ~ 2700 cargo:~ 270k m3 cap: ~ 360s rorqual: Fuel: 1000 cargo: 126k m3 (with t1 rigs and t2 expanders) cap: ~820s (with t2 cap rechargers) The jump range is the same. I was just wondering if those values where with the cap recharge skill (energy systems op) at 5 or not. -- Pocket drone carriers (tm) enthousiast ! Say hello to my tiny friends !
Levrin Atischa	Posted - 2007.11.08 16:13:00 - [49] Originally by: Eleana Tomelac Originally by: Tres Farmer I was just wondering if those values where with the cap recharge skill (energy systems op) at 5 or not. Think i took the base stats with no skills so another 25% will go off.
Cyberus Caldari Wreckless Abandon Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.11.08 16:21:00 - [50] T2 JF is a lie................ CCp no cake for you this cristmas..... I promiss YOU!!!!!!!!
Eleana Tomelac Gallente Through the Looking Glass	Posted - 2007.11.08 16:29:00 - [51] If it's 360s without skills, it makes the fastes jumping ship ship in history, 270s is 4mins and 30 secs for full capacitor, and you don't need full capacitor if you have enough skills. So, you should reach any 0.0 destination from the empire space in maybe 15 minutes of chain jumping, sounds very good. -- Pocket drone carriers (tm) enthousiast ! Say hello to my tiny friends !
Grace Manturi Manturi Industries	Posted - 2007.11.08 17:03:00 - [52] Well, actually i have freighter lvl 5 That is what u get when u dont know what else to train. Also, what skills besides lvl 5 freighter do you need to operate one of these babies?
Verone	Posted - 2007.11.08 17:07:00 - [53] Originally by: Grace Manturi Well, actually i have freighter lvl 5 That is what u get when u dont know what else to train. Also, what skills besides lvl 5 freighter do you need to operate one of these babies? Just the "Jump Freighters" Skillbook. And yeah, my alt has Freighter V as well. It's worth it for the extra space you get in a charon IMO. >>> TRIBUTE TO A FALLEN WINGMAN <<<
Toku Jiang Jiang Laboratories and Discovery	Posted - 2007.11.08 17:40:00 - [54] Even if they lower the requirements to level 4 freighter, unless you want to spend a fortune on isotopes, and have 10 cyno pilots to pop cyno's for you every 5 ly, you are going to want to have JDO 5, JDC 4, and JFC 4, otherwise your going to spending a ton of money, not to mention the 5-6 billion isk your going to fork over for the jump freighter in the first place. I also hope you have escorts cause this ship is a sitting duck with zero defensive capabilities. The Rorqual will be the ship of choice. Ya it may take a few more skills to fly one, but not much (month or so, but who cares, you will be waiting a month or more for the first jump freighters to appear on the market at affordable prices anyway), and its not a one trick pony, and you can buy 3-4 of these for the price of a single jump freighter, and get use out of it for other projects.

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