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Singularity: Jump freighters now on the market in FD-MLJ

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CCP Mindstar	Posted - 2007.11.05 17:24:00 - [1] Just a quick FYI that these are now available for testing. Ships + skill to fly them are available on the market in FD-MLJ. -- The cake is a lie!

Laendra	Posted - 2007.11.05 17:33:00 - [2] Are they T2 or Tier 2? -------------------
Tergiminius	Posted - 2007.11.05 17:38:00 - [3] You could try refining one to see what the mats are to tell if it's T2.
Jita TradeAlt	Posted - 2007.11.05 17:39:00 - [4] Thanks i bought all the rheas to give it some proper testing o/
Feng Schui Minmatar The Ninja Coalition Drunken N Disorderly	Posted - 2007.11.05 18:46:00 - [5] Edited by: Feng Schui on 05/11/2007 18:46:43 T2 it looks like. Morphite, capital jump drive, capital cargo bay, capital antimatter reactor unit, and some other stuff edit: and the freighter bpo's now have an invention tab. 64 x2 datacores, and the interface.
Vulture Virtue Caldari Pyrrhus Sicarii The Church.	Posted - 2007.11.05 19:04:00 - [6] Just a quick reminder that you won't get very many people testing them since next to no one has Freighter 5.
maarud Knight of Anubis	Posted - 2007.11.05 19:06:00 - [7] Originally by: CCP Mindstar Just a quick FYI that these are now available for testing. Ships + skill to fly them are available on the market in FD-MLJ. Yeah, I'll test em if you boost my skills to use em :( Maarud. Proudly a Ex-BYDI member <t20> i'd rather have a python in my pants than a sleipnir
Random Womble Minmatar Master Miners Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.05 19:08:00 - [8] Originally by: Vulture Virtue Just a quick reminder that you won't get very many people testing them since next to no one has Freighter 5. Actually i know a number of dedicated freighter pilots who do however unfortunately all of these are high sec only people who wont actually be using one.
Anathema Matou Moonmaiden Ltd. Avateas Blessed	Posted - 2007.11.05 20:11:00 - [9] Thanks CCP Mindstar. Now, just so I get this right - what we get there is a ship that's probably on the order of 8b to build, requiring invention and new capital tech2 components, still with no slots to fit a repairer (not that there would be any risk of exceeding the 1m m3 cargo volume on them!), with a 10% resistance bonus, 20% more hitpoints, 20% more speed and 20% agility, double the cap recharge time to make us wait longer between jumps and about 40-50 days extra training for Freighter-5. All in exchange for the Carrier-Cargo-Nerf, Correct? On the other hand, we have Cargo-Revelations which have lower capacity, much much lower price, existing pilots and tech-1 BPOs and existing manufacturer infrastructure, as well as a tank, self defense capability and the same jump range. Don't misunderstand me here, I like the extension of the construction to capital tech2 components, although I have yet to see the prices for BPOs for them. We will have more of that manufacturing diversity with tech-3 anyway. Also I'm fine with having to invent them, more or less. But I am currently mildly confused about the value I get for all of this - I surely must be missing the great thing about the new freighters? Somebody enlighten me please. Anathema Matou
Kokob	Posted - 2007.11.05 21:07:00 - [10] build cost has been pegged at around 2.4 bil at current prices to build... might wanna jump off that speculation band wagon.
Riley Craven Caldari Sunshine Carebear Crew	Posted - 2007.11.05 21:21:00 - [11] Originally by: Kokob build cost has been pegged at around 2.4 bil at current prices to build... might wanna jump off that speculation band wagon. Doesnt matter what the actual or estimated build cost is. Having to use BPCS that take months to make is going to cost you a premium. Rarity is part of an Items cost. Your an idiot if you think otherwise.
Kokob	Posted - 2007.11.05 21:52:00 - [12] Ofcourse market price will be different than the cost. However, people have been saying the bar starts at 8 bil where as the bar is much lower, from there its the market that decides the price.
Ruciza	Posted - 2007.11.05 21:58:00 - [13] Not to speak of the invention balancing that is going on at the moment.
Seonae STK Scientific	Posted - 2007.11.05 22:02:00 - [14] Originally by: Ruciza Not to speak of the invention balancing that is going on at the moment. Stop .. -THINK- ... now do the math: assume 2.4b ( completely invalid as price gouging will go into effect on datacores ), base build cost. Now take into account you can spit out -1- BPC for a freighter every 28 days w/ max skills in a mobile lab (1 run max per BPC) Now account for the fact that you're going to -FAIL- a generous minimum of 50% of the time on the invention. Now take into account the 30 day build time. Now take into account that CCP has it in their thick skulls that this is how they want logistics people to suffer. 8b isn't a fallacy, I'd call it the low end of the pricing spectrum. Face facts and just come to the realization that CCP was looking for yet another time/isk sink in another foolish attempt to ruin their own game.
Vladimir Tinakin Caldari Hadean Drive Yards Archaean Cooperative	Posted - 2007.11.05 22:12:00 - [15] Edited by: Vladimir Tinakin on 05/11/2007 22:12:45 More to the point, each invention attempt is going to cost about 200M (BPC) + 30M (SS Eng datacores) + 130M (Mech Eng Datacores) + 20M (decryptor, though those will likely go way up in price thanks to COSMOS nerf). So each attempt is 380M. We'll call you "Lucky" and say you get a success at 6 attempts, with the result being a 3-run BPC. Thats 6 attempts at 380M, which is 2.28 billion isk. Divide that by 3, you get 760M surcharge to the construction cost. That surcharge only goes up if you're unlucky and have to go to 8,10,12 attempts before the "success!" message is received. That brings you up to about 3.5 billion. Add in POS fuel for the construction site (or factory fees if done in an NPC station) and you can tack on another 20-40M or so. Then you get to factor in rarity, market demand, and greed. I'd be surprised if these things dip below the 5.5-6 billion range for the first 3-4 months. Thats assuming the construction cost estimate holds true; increased demands for reactions will likely make them increase in price, so that might tick up a few hundred million by the time production of these things goes beyond the first initial lucky BPC "winners." I will say that its a damned sight better than how they were initially presented, but their overall utility value is still...questionable. A few mid and lowslots would REALLY help this thing sell itself. As someone mentioned, there's zero chance for this thing to break the 1M m3 needed to lug around capships. ----------------------------------------------- Adm Vladimir Tinakin CFO Hadean Drive Yards
Ruciza	Posted - 2007.11.05 22:20:00 - [16] The hare has been gutted, and the liver was as clear as day...
Ricky1989 Caldari Battlestars GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.11.05 22:43:00 - [17] CCP Mindstar, thanks for adding them to the test server, now can you please query the database so we can all test them? Thanks Love Ricky1989. "I Can Make A Mess Like Nobody's Business"
AMD383 The X-Trading Company Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2007.11.05 23:07:00 - [18] Edited by: AMD383 on 05/11/2007 23:08:09 look at this and then at this and then you see it it's more then 2.4b isk i understand this whats Anathema post abaut 9b isk .... Capital Comonents have 100x for low end and 10x for high end components.
aaron 619 Gallente DAB RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.05 23:38:00 - [19] At the end of the day CCP only cares about the money. With such a large amount of people coming to age and flying carriers, some one might just stop playing because they can fly a omgwtfpwnmobile. thats the best I can come up with. they need people to want to fly something.....not have fun. if you want to fly a jump fraighter its going to take you this much time to pay for it, this much time to train. then we will make you need to do something else to keep you unsatfide so you keep coming back for more. CCP, you can only push us back so far. this game is not going to last forever and your efforts to make us think that a ship that takes over a year to train how to fly will help us reach our goal. then take it away and bait us again. I do not trust CCP anymore. this patch is going to push me further away from doing anything In 0.0 then any other patch has. Running pos's are hard as it is. now there ***** imposable. yes I understand that more people want in to 0.0, then pic a side and fight for them and work for them. we control the space. you don't like it, tuff**. so to rap up my point. the more time it takes up to train to fly something that would be needed to play the game and have fun is more time CCP can charge us every month and pocket the money. MONEY MONEY MONEY, Screw the game, we don't care about that. its like a wife that gets beat, we just keep coming back and letting CCP beat up on a game that USED to be fun. If I can do it, so can you! If you choose not to, your fault, not mine! Stop Spamming the T1 Nerf Torp CCP. Invent a T2 boost Torp and use it! Balance is Important, EVE still being fun, Priceles
Lock out Bald Industrial Corporation	Posted - 2007.11.05 23:38:00 - [20] Originally by: AMD383 Edited by: AMD383 on 05/11/2007 23:08:09 look at this and then at this and then you see it it's more then 2.4b isk i understand this whats Anathema post abaut 9b isk .... Capital Comonents have 100x for low end and 10x for high end components. I melted a t2 freighter on sisi today, and with perfect refining the parts are worth about 2.2bil... so considering the waste on the bpcs, 2.4 seems about right. Those t2 cap component bpos look nasty though, I wonder how much they're going to cost.
Mnengli Noiliffe	Posted - 2007.11.05 23:51:00 - [21] damn my alt has freighter 5 but he expired :(
Zachri Minmatar IVC Consortium INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.11.06 01:11:00 - [22] If only I could connect, sigh
Ambani Gallente Infinitus Morti R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.11.06 04:20:00 - [23] Few questions as my char doesn't have Freighter 5:( : 1. I see that the Jump calibration skill is not required anymore. Is this true - even if this freighter can jump? If not, what skills are needed? 2. Slightly off topic, Is the Weight nerf on t1 freighters gonna stay? meaning no more jump bridges for them? - I would say, please don't do this - Inside soverign space, this is gonna be a pain. 3. Can these use star gates as well? Where can the jumps be initiated - only in low-sec or everywhere? advanced thanks for the replies ;)
Bund GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.11.06 04:24:00 - [24] Originally by: Lock out Originally by: AMD383 Edited by: AMD383 on 05/11/2007 23:08:09 look at this and then at this and then you see it it's more then 2.4b isk i understand this whats Anathema post abaut 9b isk .... Capital Comonents have 100x for low end and 10x for high end components. I melted a t2 freighter on sisi today, and with perfect refining the parts are worth about 2.2bil... so considering the waste on the bpcs, 2.4 seems about right. Those t2 cap component bpos look nasty though, I wonder how much they're going to cost. You ignore the fact that these will require invention-based BPCs, which mean wasting 60-80% of the materials. You ignore the fact that invention-based BPCs will cost many hundreds of millions of isk a piece. You ignore the fact that you're looking at what is likely 20B isk worth of BPOs just for the components. You ignore the fact that a single ship absorbing such huge quantities of T2 construction pieces is going to have ripple effects throughout the entire economy. You ignore the fact that anyone who puts up with all of the above bull** is not going to settle for a 10% margin wtf The **tiest part about seeing all those T2 capital parts is it means this is just the first of many T2 capital ships.
voidvim Minmatar Genco Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.11.06 05:17:00 - [25] lets not forget that all the new t2 ships will increase the price of all the t2 components thus the T2 materials will go up in price. so I would factor in a 15% to 25% increase in cost to make the T2 capital components.
Kuolematon Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United Cult of War	Posted - 2007.11.06 06:29:00 - [26] So first we were promised Trinity upgrade in 2008.. then it was pre-nerffed to watered down version of Reveleations 3 and now we will get Revelation 2.3 .. a patch for patch of quick fix? Excellent. I'm glad that I currently play other game due cheer boredom and Amarr problems. Make up silly carrier nerfs and force people to train 60d more to move stuff .. bravo! How about instead of ***** over your people, easy invention to make it easier and cheaper? You know.. to pump up the FUN**? EVE was one of the games that didn't have "grind". How naive I was It's great being Amarr isn't it.
Lock out Bald Industrial Corporation	Posted - 2007.11.06 07:01:00 - [27] Originally by: Bund Originally by: Lock out Originally by: AMD383 Edited by: AMD383 on 05/11/2007 23:08:09 look at this and then at this and then you see it it's more then 2.4b isk i understand this whats Anathema post abaut 9b isk .... Capital Comonents have 100x for low end and 10x for high end components. I melted a t2 freighter on sisi today, and with perfect refining the parts are worth about 2.2bil... so considering the waste on the bpcs, 2.4 seems about right. Those t2 cap component bpos look nasty though, I wonder how much they're going to cost. You ignore the fact that these will require invention-based BPCs, which mean wasting 60-80% of the materials. You ignore the fact that invention-based BPCs will cost many hundreds of millions of isk a piece. You ignore the fact that you're looking at what is likely 20B isk worth of BPOs just for the components. You ignore the fact that a single ship absorbing such huge quantities of T2 construction pieces is going to have ripple effects throughout the entire economy. You ignore the fact that anyone who puts up with all of the above bull** is not going to settle for a 10% margin wtf The **tiest part about seeing all those T2 capital parts is it means this is just the first of many T2 capital ships. I'm not ignoring any of that (aside from the invented BPC waste factor, I didn't realize it was that high), I was merely summing up the cost of the parts. Jump freighters will most likely fail miserably if they're invention-based, so I hope CCP has something else in mind. I can't imagine anyone wanting to buy one for 8-10bil, and it doesn't seem like they'd be worthwhile to build/sell for any less.
Kwint Sommer Incoherent Inc Otaku Invasion	Posted - 2007.11.06 09:27:00 - [28] Originally by: Bund The ****tiest part about seeing all those T2 capital parts is it means this is just the first of many T2 capital ships. My guess is after they've completely broken carriers and made them unusable they'll introduce T2 carriers and we'll thus be forced to use them...they will also require much more training time -because 1 year just isn't enough- and ISK and they won't be that much better than carriers originally were. Sig removed. Please keep sigs to 400x120 pixels and 24000 bytes in size or less. -Kaemonn
Jason Edwards	Posted - 2007.11.06 11:15:00 - [29] Originally by: Kwint Sommer Originally by: Bund The ****tiest part about seeing all those T2 capital parts is it means this is just the first of many T2 capital ships. My guess is after they've completely broken carriers and made them unusable they'll introduce T2 carriers and we'll thus be forced to use them...they will also require much more training time -because 1 year just isn't enough- and ISK and they won't be that much better than carriers originally were. tech 2 carriers! holy molllly. Mothership itself is way out in profit area. It components you can build the mothership for 17bil. Add in huge # of transportation costs of components and the fuel. Doesn't exactly = the 26-30bil. If they went tech 2 carriers... it'd be pretty crazy in terms of value. Same thing will go for these t2 freighters. Not many will be produced... as for the freighter 5... I think there are enough alts which have trained freighters that training for lvl 5 isn't that significant. Personally it's pretty easy to dictate the costs for the ships. They should have made them tier 2 and thusly like freighter lvl 2-3 only required to use it. They could set the quantity of components to the certain level to create the base minimum cost for the ship that is what they are aiming towards. I also believe they've made the changes to try to get people to start using freighters to move things around. If they can't afford the jump freighters... than with carriers not as effective... perhaps no more jumping and they will need to setup times that they will run groups of people while escorting some freighters to move their stuff. Having been in a 0.0 alliance of decent enough size. We typically had carriers running everything around. However, every so often freighter escorts become needed.
Damned Force	Posted - 2007.11.06 13:40:00 - [30] This ships are a joke. why the f.ck have a t2 ship(without real res) and most hp on a 0 res hull :) long before the ship would go from cynogen to bubble could be raped even by a small amount of ships. Poor pilots who would train months and pay 10+ bil for a such sux ship. Dev's failed by ship design and balancing again

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