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Brixer
Dai Dai Hai
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Posted - 2007.11.06 11:55:00 -
[31]
Not only thinking about ECM/damps here, but I wonder, on a general basis, WHY does CCP seem to balance everything with a freaking sledgehammer ?
How about trying to do small changes to the ships/modules until the point fewer are using them, or more people are fitting them. I bet it's possible to monitor such things based on killmails/DB SELECTS or whatnot.
ofc you can't nerf warp disruptors and webs just because everyone is using them, but I guess a lot of modules/ships are just favored over others. You could look at the market too. Prices would dictate the most popular ship in a class, and those balancing ships could look at that ship to see if there is any imbalance.
NO, I don't want every ship to be the same, but when half EvE start training minmatar cruiser to 5 and****abond prices going through the roof someone should get the hint to look *IF* there where anything seriously imbalanced. (Nah, I think****as are ok.. They will be cought more often now with the new ships.)
Instead we see random hardcore nerfs left and right. I guess the word 'adjust' means something like 'hit it until it dies' in Iceland. 
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F90OEX
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Posted - 2007.11.06 12:00:00 -
[32]
I don't think there is one nerf/change that anyone is going to like, this is just another example.
Time to adapt I guess 
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Brixer
Dai Dai Hai
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Posted - 2007.11.06 12:04:00 -
[33]
 Originally by: F90OEX
I don't think there is one nerf/change that anyone is going to like, this is just another example.
Time to adapt I guess
Seeing you are a Caldari you won't have to. 
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d026
THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS....
R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.11.06 12:30:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Brixer
Originally by: F90OEX
I don't think there is one nerf/change that anyone is going to like, this is just another example.
Time to adapt I guess
Seeing you are a Caldari you won't have to.
caldari had to take heavy nerfage in the past to. welcome on board!
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Phaedruss
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Posted - 2007.11.06 12:42:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Brixer
Instead we see random hardcore nerfs left and right. I guess the word 'adjust' means something like 'hit it until it dies' in Iceland.
I would have thought that 5 years into development, 'tweaking' would have become the way to achieve their conception of balance. Not just because one would expect huge problems requiring huge swings of the nerf bat to have been dealt with in the beta stages of the game (yes I know, Eve is STILL in beta apparently), but also because the sledgehammer approach should only be required if you just dont have the skills or knowledge to make more precise and subtle changes.
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Kerfira
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Posted - 2007.11.06 13:18:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Phaedruss
Originally by: Brixer
Instead we see random hardcore nerfs left and right. I guess the word 'adjust' means something like 'hit it until it dies' in Iceland.
I would have thought that 5 years into development, 'tweaking' would have become the way to achieve their conception of balance. Not just because one would expect huge problems requiring huge swings of the nerf bat to have been dealt with in the beta stages of the game (yes I know, Eve is STILL in beta apparently), but also because the sledgehammer approach should only be required if you just dont have the skills or knowledge to make more precise and subtle changes.
That would require them to have a good overall view of how the game works.... and would also require them to constantly consider all items together.
The approach though seems to be to let problems stay unresolved for a long time until the forum whinage gets too much, and then suddenly overcompensate.
TBH, it seems to me they're not managing on which problems the devs spend their effort, but just let whichever dev takes an interest in a certain part/problem work away on it. If they're understaffed that's understandable, but still the wrong approach.
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
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Buyerr
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Posted - 2007.11.06 13:36:00 -
[37]
ehh... you kind of forget, damps makes the "i win" if they get your targeting under the range your at, ecm makes the temporarily "you can't shoot" if they work, tracking makes the "you have a hard time hitting" if they work, so all in all it is balanced that damps are the hardest to get to work...
so stop the whining..
and YER! no **** that you need a tackler with you if you want to do the "i am impossible to hit WEEEHEEE" thing
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Miss KillSome
Caldari
School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2007.11.06 13:36:00 -
[38]
its another of CCPs useless and stupid nerfs..
get used of it, looks like they cannot handle this much of subscribers and they are making a game suck, so they dont get so much of a lag problems (at least thats why they think so..)
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Buyerr
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Posted - 2007.11.06 13:43:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Kerfira
Originally by: Phaedruss
Originally by: Brixer
Instead we see random hardcore nerfs left and right. I guess the word 'adjust' means something like 'hit it until it dies' in Iceland.
I would have thought that 5 years into development, 'tweaking' would have become the way to achieve their conception of balance. Not just because one would expect huge problems requiring huge swings of the nerf bat to have been dealt with in the beta stages of the game (yes I know, Eve is STILL in beta apparently), but also because the sledgehammer approach should only be required if you just dont have the skills or knowledge to make more precise and subtle changes.
That would require them to have a good overall view of how the game works.... and would also require them to constantly consider all items together.
The approach though seems to be to let problems stay unresolved for a long time until the forum whinage gets too much, and then suddenly overcompensate.
TBH, it seems to me they're not managing on which problems the devs spend their effort, but just let whichever dev takes an interest in a certain part/problem work away on it. If they're understaffed that's understandable, but still the wrong approach.
ehh soo which game doesn't have the nerfing when balancing a game out ? now talking of mmo's of cause?!
OW NON! is that really so?! well duhh.. why don't you then just craw back into your hole untill you get a valid argument!
the truth is that they can't possible be able to find every loophole that the player base find and exploits.
that is why they fix them as they come.
how long time did it take before people actually thought of the nanoships or the nos+drone ships, or the, or the, or the etc.
and that is 30k+ player base, how much do you think they can do at once?!
stupid ***** get your find right and start having some reality sense.
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Kerfira
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Posted - 2007.11.06 13:54:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Buyerr
Stupid post....
Go away, troll!!
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
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Gaogan
Gallente
Solar Storm
Sev3rance
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Posted - 2007.11.06 18:10:00 -
[41]
If damps needed a nerf then everyone and their mother would be fitting them, and that is simply not the case. When was the last time you fit one on a bs? How about a non specialist cruiser? The only time I use them is on the gallente ships with the bonus, and on stealth bombers since they operate at 100k, which is the sweet spot for damps to still work, and one will keep most people from locking quite that far.
Unless the majority of players are fitting damps on non specialist ships, your argument that they are overpowered hasn't got a leg to stand on; you are just whining because you got beat by them once. You would probably complain that rock is overpowered because you picked scissors expecting your enemy to choose paper.
Let's compare a lachesis to a falcon shall we? Falcon can render 4 enemies completely useless with ecm, at least most of the time using one mod per ship, using the remaining modules as needed. The lachesis has to put 2 or 3 damps on each target to be useful, and even then, they can still lock things that are close. So that leaves the lachesis able to neutralize 2 enemy ships, and the falcon 4. Why would you ever use a lachesis again? Why bring an expensive t2 ship to a fight that can ( mostly ) neutralize 2 enemies when you could bring a cheaper battleship that actually can deal and take damage? Or a falcon that can jam 4.
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d026
THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS....
R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.11.06 18:16:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Gaogan
If damps needed a nerf then everyone and their mother would be fitting them
everybody and there mother ARE fitting them. probably you play a different game than i do..
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Gaogan
Gallente
Solar Storm
Sev3rance
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Posted - 2007.11.06 18:29:00 -
[43]
Originally by: d026
Originally by: Gaogan
If damps needed a nerf then everyone and their mother would be fitting them
everybody and there mother ARE fitting them. probably you play a different game than i do..
Apparently... do you just like the sound effect they make or something? Throw two of them on a blasterthron and what do they get you? Absolutely nothing. You will only take your enemy's lock range down to maybe 50km, and you will be closer than that. Maybe you like to use them on vagabonds? No? Maybe they do some good on sniper fleets? Oops, they don't work over 100k, so not so useful I suppose.... what exactly is the draw again?
At best a celestis could damp two enemies out of the fight on tq... I would never consider taking one to a fight instead of a blasterrax unless it was specifically to try and counter caldari jammer ships the enemy has.
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Cythrawl
Caldari
Central Defiance
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Posted - 2007.11.06 18:32:00 -
[44]
Read this post of mine.
I think this change would solve a lot of problems for the gallente recons. You'd have to work out the math on the amarrian ones yourselves since I don't care about tracking disruption myself. 
.:.
Originally by: Krazy Bitsch
Originally by: Virtuality
In before the first troll.
i do believe you are too late for this.... |
Amaki Tint
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Posted - 2007.11.06 19:22:00 -
[45]
just.../signed
Dont decrease effectiveness and limit to one effect.
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Melanger
EnTech
Brutally Clever Empire
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Posted - 2007.11.07 11:31:00 -
[46]
To get this out the way now "I fly Gallente Recons". I've not been doing it long but I enjoy it. My limited use of other EWAR probably makes me biased but this is my take on the situation.
End disclaimer.
From what I saw in the alliance tournament damps were used by everyone on ships of all kinds (damp caracals). They were very effective in the tournament at limiting the oppositions fire. Jamming saw limited use and was only effective on specific caldari ships which is fine as they are the racial specialists.
The Jamming Nerf: This nerf limited the effectiveness of jamming modules to specific caldari ships by lowering the overall stats of the modules and increasing the bonuses to compensate on those ships. By doing this Jamming was not blanket I WIN module that any ship could use but required a level of specialisation to use well.
The Damping Nerf: In everyday PVP damping is used everywhere. Most new players are shown early on that with a group of simple frigates with damps scrams and webs you can be quite effective. This is true because damps can be fitted to anything and be effective. What is proposed is an across the board drop in the effectiveness of damps to the point that like jamming modules they are not I WIN modules that can be fitted to any ship. This change gives the same effect as the Jamming nerf.
Where it differs in my eyes is the lack of corresponding boost to task specific gallente ships. Lets face it, the reason the caldari ships like the rook and scorpian are flown is not due to their firepower or tank but due to their jamming prowess. Like the Gallente, the Caldari ECM ships are pretty thin on protection and rely on their ECM to lock down the enemy ship.
Caldari have their problems with their ECM being chance but when jammed they cannot be touched.
Gallente rely on keeping the enemy at enough of a range to be unlockable but remaining within weapons range.
All I would ask is that when reducing the effectiveness of the module as a whole, the gallente specialist ships get a corresponding boost to allow them to continue fulfilling their role.
Come over to the dark side.. We have cookies! |
Gypsio III
Darkness Inc.
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Posted - 2007.11.07 12:31:00 -
[47]
Quote:
everybody and there mother ARE fitting them. probably you play a different game than i do..
QFT.
Drake and Raven currently make particularly good damp platforms. Unless I'm fitting for extreme range, I also put a damp or two on my ECM boats as well.
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big5824
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Posted - 2007.11.10 20:05:00 -
[48]
screw lachesis, boost the rook!
it CANT tank, it CANT nano, it can jam well, but if they have one too many targets ur screwed, and it only has one bonus compared to every other recons double bonus.
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Elmicker
Black Sea Industries
Cult of War
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Posted - 2007.11.10 20:54:00 -
[49]
Originally by: big5824
and it only has one bonus compared to every other recons double bonus.
You know, this is probably the best feature of the rook.
My favourite bit of the gallente EW nerf is a dev stating that it's "fine" that it now takes 4 max-skileld damps to knock a non-sensor boosted battleship down to 11km. Not even below web range.
The only useful recons for gang combat are now the huginn and rapier. The rook/falcon are too fragile (if powerful), the pilgrim and curse are now a tad on the **** side (no damps and no nos), and the arazu and lachesis are now glorified tier-1 interceptors.
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