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Medigan Kostas
Gallente Capital Experiments Libertas Fidelitas
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Posted - 2007.11.07 04:30:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Medigan Kostas on 07/11/2007 04:30:18 I am currently training to get into a Harbinger but I wonder where I go from there. I could go one of two conceivable directions. I could go toward Command Ships or Battleships of Amarr persuasion. I already fly a Myrmidon and yes, I am voluntarily going Amarr, I stepped into a Coercer the other day to test out their ships and felt as though I were the prodigal son come home at last.
I am wondering what the difference in effect skills would be, I know I'd need more Spaceship Command and Leadership for Command Ships but Battleships have their own quirks too. I have low perception so I need to focus carefully on what I am training. As far as the Absolution and the Damnation what are the experiences people have had with them? What do they each do well? Poorly? Better than one or the other? I know one is a missile boat, how feasible is this given the Amarr faction rewards and so on. Same goes for the battleships. Which of the three does what best and so forth?
I am primarily a mission runner with some ratting on the side.
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Ecky X
The Aforementioned
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Posted - 2007.11.07 04:33:00 -
[2]
Command-ships are kindof a dead-end training path. I would only train them if you intend to use them for gang support. -----
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Nummb
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Posted - 2007.11.07 04:40:00 -
[3]
It really depends on what you are doing in your ship. If you are just going to run missions then the easist and quickest way is to simply train for your chosen spec of race and train battleship.
On the other hand, if you are going to do a little of both, i.e. mission run and gang warfare, then by all means the Command Ship route is very rewarding. If you have friends and fly in a gang then you will learn that sometimes it is not always about being in a bigger ship, sometimes its about bringing the right ship with the right skills (player skills not trained skills) and right mods. A command ship is faster, smaller than a battleship and lets you use gang mods which benifit the entire gang.
On the plus side, you can really train away on some nice charisma based skills if you chose command. If you have low charisma and low perception, wtf were you doing when you created yourself
Best of luck, and Amarr can kick arse with armor tanking and missiles.
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Praxis1452
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Posted - 2007.11.07 04:52:00 -
[4]
I was going to train command ships... then I realized that I could probably never afford to lose one. BS's insure beter.
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Deschenus Maximus
Amarr Digital Fury Corporation Digital Renegades
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Posted - 2007.11.07 05:05:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Medigan Kostas
I am primarily a mission runner with some ratting on the side.
Battleships.
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Wrayeth
Shiva Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2007.11.07 05:08:00 -
[6]
If you're planning on using them for PvE, I'd suggest command ships. Their tanks are utterly insane, allowing you to basically ignore mission spawns. However, if you plan to PvP in the future, I'd suggest going with battleships. They're still quite useful for missions and have the added advantage of versatility; while command ships are excellent in PvP as well as missions, they're only good in a short range role. In contrast, battleships can be fit for either short range or snipe/fleet engagement range.
Oh, one other plus to using battleships: fully insurable.
(I fly Caldari and Matari battleships and command ships, amongst other things.) -Wrayeth n00b Extraordinaire
"Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing to this thread!" |
Shardrael
Caldari AWE Corporation Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2007.11.07 05:54:00 -
[7]
I am a command ship pilot on my main and tbo I absolutely love em, they can tank better then non faction fitted battleships and do pretty damn good dmg when well skilled.
however being that you fly amarr and I think they have some of the best battleships in the game I would say in your case do the battleship thing.
also battleships really need a severe amount of skill training to make em effective, I would say if you solely dedicate on training battleship skills and skills for the modules on the battleships you are flying 12 million sp is enough to be decent. if you are not focused solely on battleships maybe around 17mil + you are decent.
my amarr bs pilot has 16mil atm and that is all the char really gets into and I still would like to have another 4 mil or so in various areas to feel like I am well skilled.
command ships although they have more training to get into em, dont need as many sps to do well in them, due in part to lesser tech 2 weapon skills but also because the ships themselves are so good that when you can fully t2 fit em they are pretty potent.
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Julius Romanus
Amarr Bloodmoney Incorporated
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Posted - 2007.11.07 06:24:00 -
[8]
I've never flown an absolution. But I have had a harbinger shot out from under me by one. Felt like i wasnt even shooting back -- All these graphs show is how bad the apocalypse is with different kinds of weapons. -Dr Jigglez |
Forsch
Auctoritan Syndicate Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2007.11.07 06:27:00 -
[9]
I'd go Battleship first. They are faster to train, good for missioning and good on insurance. After that you can still do Command Ships.
Forsch Defender of the empire
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Riho
Magnificent Beavers Exquisite Malevolence
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Posted - 2007.11.07 08:30:00 -
[10]
i chose commands.... so far i havent had the need to train BS skills high :D i have 27,5m sp in combat skills so cant say im really a starter char :P
my amarr alt is about the same. she will be able to fly absolution when i bother to do the damn leadership skills :P
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Rex Wolfen
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.11.07 12:42:00 -
[11]
Howdy,
im 27 million gallente gunnery focused player. got around 8 mio in gunnery and gal BS5. Have flown Hyperion for a longer time and since 3 weeks Astarte.
My Sugesstion is CS. I have helluva fun flying my Astarte.
As for missions, i find lvl 4 missions have alot of smaller targets then BS and u ripp thru them like no tomorrow. Same short work with BS. Flying Hyperion was always same, u have to rely on transversal and always fly away from rats to get transversal low, tracking of BS Rails ( same for other BS longe range guns ) have poor tracking, and same bad affects when it comes to signatur resolution compared to sig of all below BS sized vessels. Sure u have drones for the small stuff, but well....
CS med guns have superior tracking compared to that and signatur isnt a problem. Add to that the excellent tank and ur no more te running chick, no, u go straight in there where it hurts and start slaughter away.
And when u start fighting in gangs ur mates will love the CS Bonus u bring. Apart from that it makes me feel good to be some kind of unique, when the raven parade leaves the Agentbase....
Maybe with the new T2 BS in line u might have a look at those, if its apealing, go for BS and open the door for the new toys.
Just my 2cc, Wolfen out.
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J0HNNY BRAV0
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Posted - 2007.11.07 12:58:00 -
[12]
T2 battleships in pvp - Yeeha - might be the best solution, as long as u have ChribbaŠs wallet :)
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Hyakuchan
Earth Federation Space Force
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Posted - 2007.11.07 13:55:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Hyakuchan on 07/11/2007 14:04:35
Originally by: Medigan Kostas
I am currently training to get into a Harbinger but I wonder where I go from there. I could go one of two conceivable directions. I could go toward Command Ships or Battleships of Amarr persuasion. I already fly a Myrmidon and yes, I am voluntarily going Amarr, I stepped into a Coercer the other day to test out their ships and felt as though I were the prodigal son come home at last.
...
I am primarily a mission runner with some ratting on the side.
Personally, I'd advise against deviating from your already developed Gallente skills. Avoid the Amarr and get yourself a 'Thron or Hyp.
I think the Hyperion is just about the best thing after sliced bread when it comes to NPC work.
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Liet Traep
Minmatar D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.11.07 15:01:00 -
[14]
Depends on what you're going to do. For pve or small gang I'd use the CS. They've been out for a long time now and I've managed to lose only 3 absolutions. Incredibly tough ships. BS have one big advantage. Range. If you're attacking a POS or sniping at an enemy station or MS you want a BS. The Absolution and the Astarte do insane damage and tank amazingly well. Nighthawk is great for popping small ships and also tanks very well. Sleipnir is fast, shield tanks well, does great damage and just is a terrifically well rounded ship. What you choose is up to you.
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Tearavygh Quillam
Caldari Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2007.11.07 15:31:00 -
[15]
If it is for PvP only, I prefer BS over CS anytime. BS are expandable, due to full insurance payout, while CS are more of a luxury to lose when **** happens.
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The Djego
Minmatar FORTES FORTUNA ADIUVAT CORP. Veritas Immortalis
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Posted - 2007.11.07 17:28:00 -
[16]
Well lots of my 27 M Skillpoints are focused on BS(BC L3 ). Well I canŠt fly Commands but i learned by Hacs a bigger Ship(Tier 2 BC anyone ) can outperforme you at a lesser price. BS can to with to CS but not at a cheap level. If you are fly a Command, pimp it and you got a very decent Ship for Solo, small Gang. If you got a BS you canŠt chase most of the targets solo but you get a hell of DPS(more than a CS) and forcused on Tank(Tier 3) you also get a deacend Tank.
With good Skills a BS will outperforme a CS by Damage and Cost efficency while it will have less tank, Agility, Scan Resulution, Speed and Tracking. Putting a decend Fitting for the ISK andvantage of the BS on it will make it more effective against larger targets(BC, BS) while the CS will be more effective against Cruisers, HACs, Reacons and Frigs. BS vs CS at the same Price(Ship + Fitting) I would say BS will win because of the better DPS and the (cheap) Faction tank thats let it least longer because of the pure HP advantage. Nerf Tank, boost Gank! XD
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Liet Traep
Minmatar D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.11.07 21:14:00 -
[17]
Originally by: The Djego Well lots of my 27 M Skillpoints are focused on BS(BC L3 ). Well I canŠt fly Commands but i learned by Hacs a bigger Ship(Tier 2 BC anyone ) can outperforme you at a lesser price. BS can to with to CS but not at a cheap level. If you are fly a Command, pimp it and you got a very decent Ship for Solo, small Gang. If you got a BS you canŠt chase most of the targets solo but you get a hell of DPS(more than a CS) and forcused on Tank(Tier 3) you also get a deacend Tank.
With good Skills a BS will outperforme a CS by Damage and Cost efficency while it will have less tank, Agility, Scan Resulution, Speed and Tracking. Putting a decend Fitting for the ISK andvantage of the BS on it will make it more effective against larger targets(BC, BS) while the CS will be more effective against Cruisers, HACs, Reacons and Frigs. BS vs CS at the same Price(Ship + Fitting) I would say BS will win because of the better DPS and the (cheap) Faction tank thats let it least longer because of the pure HP advantage.
Actually in many respects a cs is cheaper. A Cs costs about the same as a tier 3 bs and yes it's not fully insurable. but after that you come to the modules. BS modules are more expensive than Cruiser mods. Check the price on heavy beam II's versus tachy II's. Or check the price on medium rails versus their BS equivalents. In my experience with the exception of fleet fights you get more bang for your buck with a CS. And I have 40 mill SP's and can fly any non capital Amarr or Gallente combat ship. frigs, destroyers, cruisers, bc's, bs, inties, af's, hacs, logistics, interdictors and CS. CS are damned good and there's a reason why a lot of vets fly them.
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bldyannoyed
Un4seen Development
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Posted - 2007.11.07 21:32:00 -
[18]
Well.
It would take mebbe 2 weeks to do amarr bs4 and large energy turrets 4.
OR, you can spend 2 months training for a CS.
Do the BS first, and if you dont like it you've lost 2 weeks tops, instead of 2 months deciding you dont like CS.
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Setana Manoro
Gallente Firefly Inc.
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Posted - 2007.11.07 21:41:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Medigan Kostas Edited by: Medigan Kostas on 07/11/2007 04:30:18 I am currently training to get into a Harbinger but I wonder where I go from there. I could go one of two conceivable directions. I could go toward Command Ships or Battleships of Amarr persuasion. I already fly a Myrmidon and yes, I am voluntarily going Amarr, I stepped into a Coercer the other day to test out their ships and felt as though I were the prodigal son come home at last.
I am wondering what the difference in effect skills would be, I know I'd need more Spaceship Command and Leadership for Command Ships but Battleships have their own quirks too. I have low perception so I need to focus carefully on what I am training. As far as the Absolution and the Damnation what are the experiences people have had with them? What do they each do well? Poorly? Better than one or the other? I know one is a missile boat, how feasible is this given the Amarr faction rewards and so on. Same goes for the battleships. Which of the three does what best and so forth?
I am primarily a mission runner with some ratting on the side.
Abaddon and the new Paladin are going to be ok in missions. Geddon as pulse and Apoc as sniper fit with tachyons are quite good in gang pvp.
Go BS's. They also do more damage then Commands and don't have a small engagement range like the Commands.
Failgeddon wrecks CCP for XXX annoyed customers ! |
James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
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Posted - 2007.11.07 22:45:00 -
[20]
Battleships.
Commands are nice, but they're more like toys, than actual workhorses.
Although, if you are looking at missions, the damnation (with variable damage types) is probably a good solid choice.
Regardless, if you're asking the question, chances are you're not rolling in isks, so stick with the BS training path. (It's shorter too). A command ship costs ... well, more than the base hull, and has bad insurance payout to boot. -- Crane needs more grid 249km locking? GMP and TNP |
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James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
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Posted - 2007.11.07 22:47:00 -
[21]
Originally by: J0HNNY BRAV0 T2 battleships in pvp - Yeeha - might be the best solution, as long as u have ChribbaŠs wallet :)
Replacement cost of a CS is noticably higher than the replacement cost of a BS. Assuming equivalent grade fittings of course. -- Crane needs more grid 249km locking? GMP and TNP |
PCaBoo
RennTech SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2007.11.07 22:56:00 -
[22]
train both. :p Bs's first, then move to cs's when you're ready to support it (financially and sp-wise). ________________________________ Stop nerfing everything! |
Baaldor
Caldari Igneus Auctorita GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.11.07 23:18:00 -
[23]
Originally by: James Lyrus Battleships.
Commands are nice, but they're more like toys, than actual workhorses.
Although, if you are looking at missions, the damnation (with variable damage types) is probably a good solid choice.
Regardless, if you're asking the question, chances are you're not rolling in isks, so stick with the BS training path. (It's shorter too). A command ship costs ... well, more than the base hull, and has bad insurance payout to boot.
Actually the CS ships ability to survive on the battle field is much greater than a BS. The CS is "the Work Horse" of a battle field. Command Ships are not toys by any stretch of the imagination. You need to stop back up and look at what it can actually do. And you will find that it will out strip BS's both in tanking and firepower. If you don't have the iskies nor skills to fly one well then it is a sad thing. But if you can and fit it out right you and fly it well..you will find your self in the same ship while your mates are searching for new BS hulls and fittings.
THE PREVIOUS VIEWS AND STATEMENTS DO NOT REPRESENT AND OR SUPPORTED BY THE MANY VOICES IN MY HEAD. |
ViolenTUK
Gallente Vindicated Exiles 101010 Alliance
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Posted - 2007.11.08 00:09:00 -
[24]
Command ships would never win a cap war against a Battleship.
www.eve-players.com |
Rawr Cristina
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.11.08 01:14:00 -
[25]
Amarr arn't very good at PvE by themselves sadly. If you get someone to tank for you then they're amazing, but trying to tank + gank Amarr ships in PvE is practically hopeless
What I used to do is have my Drake warp in to L4s, agro everything and passive tank it - then have a corpie/friend/alt in a Gank ship (I used Abaddon with Megabeams) to bring the DPS. Worked extremely well
If you don't have any choice but to go solo though,the Damnation might work.. or an Apoc/Abaddon with Artillery -----
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Cosmo Raata
Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.11.08 02:43:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Cosmo Raata on 08/11/2007 02:43:34 Command ships, hands down. With high enough skills, they do massive damage, tank very well, have much better manueverability than battleships and are really a lot more fun imho. People like to say they are only good at small gans, but I disagree. Here is my kill/death ratio. Judge for yourself the power of Command ships, you can also scroll to the recent Carrier kill where I topped BS's with my rails in damage dealt.
Linky!!! (click on stats to see ships used)
Don't Ban me for my Love of Amarr! |
Medigan Kostas
Gallente Capital Experiments Libertas Fidelitas
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Posted - 2007.11.08 03:41:00 -
[27]
I am specifically looking at a Damnation, it's gonna take a while to get into but I love the stats and the style
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Kadoes Khan
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Posted - 2007.11.08 06:53:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Rawr Cristina Amarr arn't very good at PvE by themselves sadly. If you get someone to tank for you then they're amazing, but trying to tank + gank Amarr ships in PvE is practically hopeless
What I used to do is have my Drake warp in to L4s, agro everything and passive tank it - then have a corpie/friend/alt in a Gank ship (I used Abaddon with Megabeams) to bring the DPS. Worked extremely well
If you don't have any choice but to go solo though,the Damnation might work.. or an Apoc/Abaddon with Artillery
hrmmm I have a geddon fit that gets about 650 DPS tank and deals about 800 DPS and is cap stable. My faction fitted drake has about the same tank and has no problem in lvl4's so I'd say that amarr not doing well in PvE solo is not quite true. You just need to pay attention to what missions need out of you. Abaddon with megabeams is obviously going to cap you out quick, you need a lot of cap to run lasers and a tank and you also want decent damage which to me screams geddon not abaddon, get it some faction gear and use heavy beams with faction/T2 ammo and you'll mow through things without the need for a helper. -=^=- "Someday the world will recognize the genius in my insanity." |
Siklone
The Arrow Project Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2007.11.08 09:15:00 -
[29]
Command Ships are a nice addition, but every pilot should fly a battleship before they get into one, so make sure you can fly and use them well before you get into CS.
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Ogdru Jahad
Amarr War Dawgs
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Posted - 2007.11.08 23:08:00 -
[30]
I trained this chr up for the absol exclusivly.
where have i got to go now? t2 bs. I am completly loving my abaddon. cant wait for a t2 ship. and kronus is one i am seriously thinking of training for or the rohk, -
At last the Gallente can finally lay claim to saying... "my DICtor" is bigger than yours.
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