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Corewin
Gallente
Deathwatch Inc.
Black-Out
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Posted - 2007.11.07 12:32:00 -
[31]
If the player base is ok with a mediocre game its going to continue to get a mediocre developer involvement.
Not that I am saying Eve is such a game, but you should never loose sight of the fact you are paying for this game monthly. In doing so you are paying for the continuous growth of said game. Always compare the amount of involvement/time and money you have put into this, to the updates in content and how often they are applied.
Every 3 months you are essentially buying a brand new game at $45, give or take depending on your own currency.
The real question over whether CCP cares about its customers is if you are truly getting a new game's worth out of 3 months of a game you've been playing for X amount of months or years.
Additional content is what makes an old game seem new, not changing aspects to the current items within it. (those should be a given)
I am not paying to read the story of Eve, I am paying to see the fantastic ideas, we see developers praise, become reality in Eve. "soon tm" should not be a means of timing these expansion, but rather on the customers needs for new content in a nessicary time span.
This is how CCP will have to "care" about its community.
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Jakus Cemendur
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2007.11.07 13:04:00 -
[32]
Well personally i'd put a complete overhaul of the graphics engine for free as a good sign relating to CCP, given the fact other companies would probably have released it as "EVE 2"
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Alloures
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Posted - 2007.11.07 13:06:00 -
[33]
The armchair CEO is even better than the armchair psychologist.
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Corewin
Gallente
Deathwatch Inc.
Black-Out
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Posted - 2007.11.07 13:12:00 -
[34]
 Originally by: Jakus Cemendur
Well personally i'd put a complete overhaul of the graphics engine for free as a good sign relating to CCP, given the fact other companies would probably have released it as "EVE 2"
You DID pay for it (back to that whole monthly subcription fee), but yes a graphic overhaul is a good sign. However, it has been brought to CCPs attention for quite some time now that a graphics overhaul was in extreme order. Some may even argue that it is "late" in terms with how long the game has been out.
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BLAIYNE
Goats With Aqualungs
Derek Knows Us
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Posted - 2007.11.07 13:14:00 -
[35]
The answer has to be both A and B.
They have to make money, otherwise they couldn't afford to continue paying their staff and keeping the game going.
But they also care about the community and what the players actually think far more than any other game I've played.
Sure things don't always work out the way they plan them or the way some people want them to, but that's life. At least they care enough to want to keep trying. If they didn't, they'd just leave the basic game unchanged, charge us for upgrades/add-ons, and concentrate on maximising the numbers of new players.
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Gaven Blands
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Posted - 2007.11.07 13:15:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Verone
A
If they didn't give a toss, why would they bother setting up fanfests or flying equipment and people half way across the world to run an alliance tournament every 6 months?
$ $ $ $ $
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Awwwww Diddums! Did I wardec your highsec alt recently or something? |
Gaven Blands
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Posted - 2007.11.07 13:16:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Verone
You obviously don't even have the slightest grasp of how much time, and cost go into producing an alliance tournament, or the fanfest.
You obviously don't have the slightest grasp of "speculate to accumulate". Or have we both "obviously" got a case of the "Mother of all assumptions"?
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Awwwww Diddums! Did I wardec your highsec alt recently or something? |
Gaven Blands
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Posted - 2007.11.07 13:19:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Taz Devlin
Very basic question: Do you think CCP cares about Eve and it's community?
A) Yes they do.
B) Nope, only about where to get the next beer from.
A) They hope I have money and continue to have money.
B) They care about my money becoming their money.
You can't please all the people all of the time, but you can please enough people enough of the time to be able to afford your vices.
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Awwwww Diddums! Did I wardec your highsec alt recently or something? |
Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators
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Posted - 2007.11.07 13:23:00 -
[39]
Edited by: Le Skunk on 07/11/2007 13:26:24
Originally by: Verone
A
If they didn't give a toss, why would they bother setting up fanfests or flying equipment and people half way across the world to run an alliance tournament every 6 months?
Because its good PR. Because it reignites interest in players growing bored of the game. Beacuse WOW and other games do it. Why do soft drink firms sponosr the olympic games, why do cigarette firms sponsor F1, why is the local wing at the hospital sponsored by a fast food firm.
Dont be naive.
A pretty bland question from the OP.
Of course the real answer is both a and b.
SKUNK
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Jakus Cemendur
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2007.11.07 13:27:00 -
[40]
Edited by: Jakus Cemendur on 07/11/2007 13:27:12
Quote:
You DID pay for it (back to that whole monthly subcription fee), but yes a graphic overhaul is a good sign. However, it has been brought to CCPs attention for quite some time now that a graphics overhaul was in extreme order. Some may even argue that it is "late" in terms with how long the game has been out.
True i did pay for it in my monthly fee, but other MMOs would have charged on top of that for a complete graphics engine overhaul, or even for expansions with CCP releases for free(not counting monthly fee). Plus, with all the expansions, graphics overhaul and general bug fixing and running the servers, things would take a while, i mean do people expect them to constantly churn out tons of new content when their resources will be divided between different things.
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Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators
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Posted - 2007.11.07 13:35:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Jakus Cemendur
Edited by: Jakus Cemendur on 07/11/2007 13:27:12
Quote:
You DID pay for it (back to that whole monthly subcription fee), but yes a graphic overhaul is a good sign. However, it has been brought to CCPs attention for quite some time now that a graphics overhaul was in extreme order. Some may even argue that it is "late" in terms with how long the game has been out.
True i did pay for it in my monthly fee, but other MMOs would have charged on top of that for a complete graphics engine overhaul, or even for expansions with CCP releases for free(not counting monthly fee). Plus, with all the expansions, graphics overhaul and general bug fixing and running the servers, things would take a while, i mean do people expect them to constantly churn out tons of new content when their resources will be divided between different things.
If CCP dared to try to charge for a content overview, they would lose a lot of their player base.
They are running a fine line with the players (what with various scandals in the past, overactive use of the nerf bat, unimaginative fresh content, and a general malaise and lack of direction in the gmae). Its only the addictivness of the game, in game ties, and the feeling of 'waste' that recyling your main character that keeps a lot of people playing.
This leaves them kind of stuck with the business model they have now.
SKUNK
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Torco
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Posted - 2007.11.07 13:35:00 -
[42]
the point is, that good customer care is key for a successful game. With so many big and good mmorpgs around the customer just choses the best all around package. Look at SOE they suffer from their actions they did in the past. They are the "bad" mmorpg company and they will never recover from it.
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Haks'he Lirky
Dominion Imperium
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Posted - 2007.11.07 13:37:00 -
[43]
A
I dont think any mmo company is as involved with the community as ccp is.
I sincerely think that the situation we have today, where people express their overly dramatic sentiments towards nerf/improvements, is because of that involvement from ccp.
They want to control what ccp does, not influence, and they do this with negative feedback and by trying to induce guilt by throwing around large negative "truths" about their feelings.
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Mashie Saldana
Minmatar
Hooligans Of War
Insurgency
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Posted - 2007.11.07 13:46:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Le Skunk
I note people who make the trip to the fan fest, and are courted by CCP ( a in joke with a Dev here, a sneaky preview there, an invite to EVE tv in between) are normaly more rabidly supportive of CCP then the normal player. Seems you lose your sense of perspective.
Or people that didn't have time and/or money to go there are bitter as they feel left out.
I do admit, after a few round table discussions with devs they do become a bit more than an anonymous name with a [CCP] tag. 
As for the OP, of course they want to make money but at the same time they are damn passionate about the game.
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Esmenet
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.11.07 13:53:00 -
[45]
A)
But ofcourse every mmo company is a business like any other. That should not surprise anyone. But having played a lot of mmo's i have never seen a game where the devs have been so active in the community as in EVE.
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Cailais
Amarr
W A R
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Posted - 2007.11.07 13:57:00 -
[46]
A.
Some players just don't understand the huge ammount of effort and the vast complexity of Eve Online and they come here to whinge about not getting instant gratification 100% of the time. Its a sad indication of how selfish and self obsessed modern society has become.
C.
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
Dehumanisation - griefers are cool and if you are not a griefer, you do not belong here.
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Jakus Cemendur
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2007.11.07 13:59:00 -
[47]
Quote:
If CCP dared to try to charge for a content overview, they would lose a lot of their player base.
They are running a fine line with the players (what with various scandals in the past, overactive use of the nerf bat, unimaginative fresh content, and a general malaise and lack of direction in the gmae). Its only the addictivness of the game, in game ties, and the feeling of 'waste' that recyling your main character that keeps a lot of people playing.
This leaves them kind of stuck with the business model they have now.
SKUNK
Wait, so despite the fact that other companies would charge a seperate fee for things like Revelations or any of the other expansions that added in loads of new ships, tech 2, POS and all that jazz, if CCP did it it would be wrong?
Now i'm not saying they should, far from it as i really like CCPs policy of releasing loads of new content for free(excluding the monthly fee of course).
As for nerfs, i just view them as the devs attempting to balance the game and change things they didn't want to happen. And i speak as a person who's flying a Myrmidon with a drone bay full of Ogre IIs.
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spurious signal
Caldari
Brainiacs
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Posted - 2007.11.07 14:02:00 -
[48]
A, obviously.
People only think B when they're angry about something. MMORPGs tend to generate strong feelings from their players and EVE is no exception. When we're blinded by strong emotions our brains don't work logically and we think and post stupid things.
Of course you missed out "C: EVE's devs care deeply but since they farmed some of their best talent off to run the (failing) China server the remaining team have lost their direction a bit."
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Leya Marcsson
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Posted - 2007.11.07 14:31:00 -
[49]
Of course they do care about the community. Not only do they love Eve, but we also pay their bills.
I have yet to see a MMORPG with better community-communication and -management than EvE have. Name me one!
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Avon
Caldari
Black Nova Corp
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.11.07 14:38:00 -
[50]
Ah, this old chestnut.
CCP are a business, and have to pay the bills, otherwise no amount of caring about the community will make any difference.
I'm sure CCP are still passionate about their product, and the community - but I guess older players might see it differently to how it was "back in the day".
The old gits (and I include myself), especially those from beta and early release, were playing Eve because they shared a passion and a vision with CCP .. even if the actual product was, um, unpolished.
As Eve has evolved it has gained subscribers on the actual merits of the product, and that is great, but it changes to some extent the outlook of the community. As it grows the community moves away more from the dreamers and more in to the hands of the consumers.
I think CCP have done a great job of moving with that change, and whilst I yearn for the "good old days", and miss many aspects of the old community, I can honestly say that, with a few notable exceptions, the Eve community is still something to be very proud of.
Sure maybe CCP have traded a little vision for growth, but if their vision does not evolve with the community both will stagnate, and then Eve dies.
I am actually quite excited about the next patch, because there is a lot there that harks back to an older vision of Eve - but with bells an whistles.
The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
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Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators
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Posted - 2007.11.07 14:55:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Jakus Cemendur
Quote:
If CCP dared to try to charge for a content overview, they would lose a lot of their player base.
They are running a fine line with the players (what with various scandals in the past, overactive use of the nerf bat, unimaginative fresh content, and a general malaise and lack of direction in the gmae). Its only the addictivness of the game, in game ties, and the feeling of 'waste' that recyling your main character that keeps a lot of people playing.
This leaves them kind of stuck with the business model they have now.
SKUNK
Wait, so despite the fact that other companies would charge a seperate fee for things like Revelations or any of the other expansions that added in loads of new ships, tech 2, POS and all that jazz, if CCP did it it would be wrong?
Now i'm not saying they should, far from it as i really like CCPs policy of releasing loads of new content for free(excluding the monthly fee of course).
As for nerfs, i just view them as the devs attempting to balance the game and change things they didn't want to happen. And i speak as a person who's flying a Myrmidon with a drone bay full of Ogre IIs.
What I meant was, having established their business model (free content updates) for them to successfully flip to a pay per update system would require an overwhelmingly happy player base. This, even the most optimistic and blinkered fan will agree, they do not have.
That said, As I have said before, its an adrenalin pumping, excellant game 5% of the time. And a pretty good experience for the rest of it, and its incredibly cheap (in cash) compared to many alternative hobbys.
SKUNK
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Eriv Kendri
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2007.11.07 14:56:00 -
[52]
They care. Nothing this good ever got built because it provided a pay check.
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Val Vympel
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Posted - 2007.11.07 14:58:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Alloures
The armchair CEO is even better than the armchair psychologist.
(Val Vympel raises hand)
Armchair
Please correct me if I'm wrong...but...this comment seems to suggest that nobody here speaks from practical business experience.
For the first 38 years of my life I worked for my family business. My father groomed me to take over the business, and at the age of 18 due to my fathers ill health I did so.
I was the sole owner/operator of this business with a top payroll of 129 employees for nearly 20 years. Due to a degenerative condition that has left me deaf,I was forced to sell the business. I sold the business with the strict legal stipulation that the business be operated under the same principals it has operated under for 3 generations. My family name and reputation are attached to that product and as long as I'm alive I wanted to insure that a group of eager young college business graduates(all theory,ZERO experience) don't go and try to reinvent the wheel and drag my family name through the mud.
Allot of PERSONAL sacrifice went into making that business profitable. When a management team either because of apathy or greed loses sight of that,the business will decline.
Unless you operate a monopoly,you simply can't operate with indifference towards your customer base if you wish to stay in business long. No brainer right?...Well you can't tell that by the way many businesses are operated today.
As for the armchair....well technically you are correct,I'm in one right now. And proven business tactics,morals and ethics have allowed me to sit in this armchair playing EVE for as long as I like. As I'm semi-retired,hurt for nothing,and most important of all debt free
CCP would do well not to forget where they came from,what has made them successful and to whom they owe it all to: Themselves,their employees and their customers...in equal portion.
Sorry..for the longwind...feeling energetic this morning.
Cheers
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TheEndofTheWorld
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Posted - 2007.11.07 15:08:00 -
[54]
Edited by: TheEndofTheWorld on 07/11/2007 15:08:15
Originally by: Taz Devlin
A) Yes they do.
B) Nope, only about where to get the next beer from.
B - some of the obvious stuff that affects only a small % of the player base has still not been fixed.
let me give you an example:
Bug with mission standings, the one where you only got a small % of the standings - fixed in a few days
Logging off at gates when you jump into a small/solo hostile(s) to save your ships - still here after 2+ years
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Xaen
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2007.11.07 15:22:00 -
[55]
I think they care, but they're so out of touch with most of their players that they're no longer capable of making sensible, even handed decisions. And they've completely forgotten what it's like to start off fresh with no skills.
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Support fixing the EVE UI | Suggest Jita fixes
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Xaen
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2007.11.07 15:25:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Corewin
Originally by: Jakus Cemendur
Well personally i'd put a complete overhaul of the graphics engine for free as a good sign relating to CCP, given the fact other companies would probably have released it as "EVE 2"
You DID pay for it (back to that whole monthly subcription fee), but yes a graphic overhaul is a good sign. However, it has been brought to CCPs attention for quite some time now that a graphics overhaul was in extreme order. Some may even argue that it is "late" in terms with how long the game has been out.
The current graphics engine isn't that bad. What desperately needs an overhaul is the GUI.
Sure the current graphics engine looks slightly dated, but gaming co-workers are regularly impressed with in game screenshots of what it can already do. Several posters have specifically mentioned people that quit because the GUI was so awful. I think "idiot right click menus" was a phrase used.
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Support fixing the EVE UI | Suggest Jita fixes
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Tarminic
Forsaken Resistance
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Posted - 2007.11.07 15:26:00 -
[57]
A
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Tarminic - 29 Million SP in pink Forum Warfare  |
Jakus Cemendur
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2007.11.07 15:26:00 -
[58]
Quote:
What I meant was, having established their business model (free content updates) for them to successfully flip to a pay per update system would require an overwhelmingly happy player base. This, even the most optimistic and blinkered fan will agree, they do not have.
That said, As I have said before, its an adrenalin pumping, excellant game 5% of the time. And a pretty good experience for the rest of it, and its incredibly cheap (in cash) compared to many alternative hobbys.
SKUNK
Ah right gotcha, misunderstood what you were trying to say.
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Xaen
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2007.11.07 15:34:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Eriv Kendri
They care. Nothing this good ever got built because it provided a pay check.
Wow, that is one huge freaking lie.
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Support fixing the EVE UI | Suggest Jita fixes
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Kastar
Memphis Technologies
Intergalactic Brotherhood
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Posted - 2007.11.07 15:34:00 -
[60]
Sorry but this is a very stupid question.
Off course they care, it's their product. Not caring would lead to sloppiness and negligence, resulting in a worse product and subsequently less subscribers.
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