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Post Nerf - Carriers Will Retain Value...Seriously...as Melt

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Re Mi Caldari Funshine Unlimited	Posted - 2007.11.07 22:00:00 - [1] There has been a lot of talk about logistics, and how that will be ruined by the carrier nerf. I am not a carrier pilot myself, but I believe this problem is solvable so that alliances and corps aren't going to collapse post nerf. The way I look at this, with the nerf, carriers will lose a lot of their capacity to be useful as haulers. What most people fail to consider, is that most of the items they haul, get taken to a central depot where they are warehoused. Sometimes they aren't used for weeks. So there is a lag time that could be used for on site production, rather than importing items. 1. MELT YOUR CARRIERS - Melt your carriers to create an instant mineral stockpile, and use the minerals on site to build things you need, as you need them. For resupply of minerals, you would need a low sec capital production area to supply you with near cost carriers, ME 9+ carrier BPO and efficient production facilities. This has a dual advantage however. If you "stock carriers for melt" instead of minerals/mods, you have a ready made mini capital fleet at your logistics base (assuming you don't melt them before you need the minerals), and a surge capacity you can rely on for combat losses. With some creative clone use, a single person could haul 10 carriers into the back end of 0.0. Just suicide their pods at their destination and they can go back for another run. No need to guard freighter convoys or titan jump bridges to haul trit. It will cost 25% more for minerals delivered this way, but how much is your time worth? 2. Combat Logistics - A post nerf carrier is capable of maintaining a battlefield logistics role. It can hold enough mods and ammo for critical needs. Either way you need stockpiles of materials on hand for combat in your rear areas. Melting carriers, and building all your own mods, changes nothing in this regard. It won't reduce your ability to supply your fleet. You will need to plan more however and be more prepared with pre-positioned materials. 3. Production - This would require some changes. If you melt carriers, rather than import mods, you need to have the capability to build at wartime levels. This production team can be very mobile, but it also creates a weak spot that needs to be protected. Most alliances already have a production area, it would just need to be more scalable. Keep extra assembly arrays ready to be onlined. Fortunately under this system, if you need to escape, you can grab your BPO, your high end minerals, load them on one of your remaining carriers, and fly away. Or fly in as production support in a region that is under siege, or as part of a rapid advance, or base forward logistics team to keep fitting services supplied, making your supply chain impenetrable as long as you hold the line on front end systems, and keep fitting/manufacturing services on line. 4. A new occupation, the Covert Jump Courier - Your most crucial assets are your BPO/BPC, the patch will also bring a new ship, the Black Ops ship that can deliver them. With its ability to jump bridge vast distances, you can build a huge science base in empire that is impervious to war in 0.0. Your alts can farm data cores, and invent BPC 23/7. You can haul with alts that are NPC corp members and are virtually invisible to your enemies. Couriers can deliver these key materials, you only need risk a single ship and cargo, not your entire supply chain. 5. A simplified logistics chain - At the start of the production chain are T1 BPO/BPC and T2 BPC for all the mods and hulls you will ever need. They can be loaded in a single can in a covert ops ship, and jump bridged by a black ops ship directly to your key production facility. No fuss, no hassle. A carrier can just cyno in, and get melted. No need for extravagant supply lines. Your operation becomes lighter, more nimble, more mobile and you can replace labor with cash and a bit of cheap infrastructure. Funshine Unlimited - An Industrial Services Corporation
iknowWho Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2007.11.07 22:06:00 - [2] poast? Originally by: Stitcher Hold on, I think it's trying to communicate..... Bar wheep grada, wheep ninibong?
Koi Yokuma Praetorian BlackGuard PURGE.	Posted - 2007.11.07 22:08:00 - [3] hi mom
Re Mi Caldari Funshine Unlimited	Posted - 2007.11.07 22:13:00 - [4] oops wrong forum Funshine Unlimited - An Industrial Services Corporation
Vladimir Antlerkov GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.11.07 22:16:00 - [5] At any rate, Nozh has further specified some changes (jump freighter skill prereqs lowered to Freighter IV, carriers being able to alter their role through possible new riggings, and importantly, ships in the heavily enlarged SMA can still carry ammo) here: http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=631272&page=2 Should be a devblog up in a couple of days.
Re Mi Caldari Funshine Unlimited	Posted - 2007.11.07 22:21:00 - [6] Edited by: Re Mi on 07/11/2007 22:23:07 As far as I know they are still going to cost 9 billion for jump freighters. Hardly seems worth it for a ship with no armor. By the way, excellent break down in your link. Funshine Unlimited - An Industrial Services Corporation
Celot GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.11.07 22:34:00 - [7] this thread is so horrible
Re Mi Caldari Funshine Unlimited	Posted - 2007.11.07 22:37:00 - [8] Originally by: Celot this thread is so horrible This is all part of my evil plan to bore you to death. Funshine Unlimited - An Industrial Services Corporation
Celot GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.11.07 22:45:00 - [9] stop posting
Vasili Z Beasts of Burden YouWhat	Posted - 2007.11.07 22:56:00 - [10] Carrier nerf kicks ass. ------- Everything I say represents my corporation and their views.
CaptainMiller	Posted - 2007.11.07 23:10:00 - [11] Originally by: Vladimir Antlerkov http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=631272&page=2 Should be a devblog up in a couple of days. YOU GOT ME! DAMN YOU! :D
King4aDay Minmatar Murder-Death-Kill	Posted - 2007.11.07 23:37:00 - [12] I'm a little confused so maybe the op can help me out. What does this have to do with goonswarm?
Goberth Ludwig eXceed Inc.	Posted - 2007.11.07 23:40:00 - [13] Black ops dont jump very far really. - Gob IXC Recruitment
Arbitrus Caldari InterGalactic Corp. Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.11.07 23:44:00 - [14] lawlz ----------------------------------------------- Come Home with your shield, or come home on it. Signature dimensions exceeds max 400x120 dimensions allowed. Mail us if you have any questions -Targoviste
Re Mi Caldari Funshine Unlimited	Posted - 2007.11.08 00:00:00 - [15] Edited by: Re Mi on 08/11/2007 00:05:27 Originally by: King4aDay I'm a little confused so maybe the op can help me out. What does this have to do with goonswarm? Not everything is about Goonswarm. Some posts are about BoB too. We need inter alliance cooperation when it comes to our carriers. This goes beyond the current wars. The best way to continue the 0.0 economy is to melt carriers. Funshine Unlimited - An Industrial Services Corporation
Kaaii Caldari Kaaii-Net Research Labs	Posted - 2007.11.08 00:02:00 - [16] Originally by: Re Mi Edited by: Re Mi on 07/11/2007 22:23:07 As far as I know they are still going to cost 9 billion for jump freighters. ...............You don't know very far....... According to Oveur, existing LSAA's already anchored will stay there. kieron Director of Community Relations,
Dete Data	Posted - 2007.11.08 00:03:00 - [17] Edited by: Dete Data on 08/11/2007 00:03:40 Originally by: Vladimir Antlerkov Cant tell ya how much this made me laugh.. .lawd
Re Mi Caldari Funshine Unlimited	Posted - 2007.11.08 00:28:00 - [18] Edited by: Re Mi on 08/11/2007 00:31:23 Originally by: Kaaii Originally by: Re Mi Edited by: Re Mi on 07/11/2007 22:23:07 As far as I know they are still going to cost 9 billion for jump freighters. ...............You don't know very far....... Uh, it is invented and a T2 ship. It will take 6-8 weeks just to make the freighter BPC like with standard T2 processes, which have a 1/4 chance of success and so you have 4 billion plus 200 or so data cores each try (which have doubled in price in anticipation of the new T2 ships) and decryptors and such, so we are at 6 billion in no time flat, and take 2000 morphite and stuff and little things you need to get and it will be a real pain to build. Then the person selling it will want isk, so they will charge a lot at first, and they won't sell very many for several months. These ships will cost 9 billion for the first couple months if you buy them on the market. They will not be economical until long after the carrier nerf, plus logistics people would need to train the skills, which are like 60 days or something for carrier pilots, who often don't even have industrial skills at V. Jump freighter will be a toy for the first 6 months. We will need good logistics, and carriers will be nerfed so we might as well melt them until the freighter thing is sorted out. Prices are already down to melt anyway soon. Or you can recycle them and build dreads and haul with that. But the best thing is to melt carriers, as they will no longer be a front line combat ship anyway. We need 0.0 production centers to stay on line, and this is a cheap and easy way to deliver trit, pye and mex. Otherwise all wars will stop. So carrier melt is a good short term fix. One carrier melted can supply a big war for a week with mods. Funshine Unlimited - An Industrial Services Corporation
Egne Ver Caldari The Reckoning	Posted - 2007.11.08 00:54:00 - [19] Originally by: Vladimir Antlerkov http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=631272&page=2 Damn you Originally by: CCP kieron If you feel we as an entity are corrupt and abhorrent, we bid you good luck in finding a game and company that suits your interests. i.e. If you dont like it quit
grindel Caldari Quantum Industries Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.11.08 03:00:00 - [20] Interesting perspective. Thanks for taking the time.
baalaagaa GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.11.08 04:19:00 - [21] I say the carrier nerf didn't go far enough! how you like them apples!
Delthus The Collective Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.11.08 11:37:00 - [22] carriers don't need nerf killed 3 last night with 30ish ships all non capital afaik
Ricco Lonestar Minmatar xtort Rare Faction	Posted - 2007.11.08 11:41:00 - [23] I thought you got the medium turret skill right at start? That along the not so expensive propulsion jam skill and a webber.(they don't have to be overpriced). Can kill fighters quite effeciently in my opinion.
Hey You Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.11.08 13:32:00 - [24] Originally by: Re Mi Edited by: Re Mi on 08/11/2007 00:31:23 Originally by: Kaaii Originally by: Re Mi Edited by: Re Mi on 07/11/2007 22:23:07 As far as I know they are still going to cost 9 billion for jump freighters. ...............You don't know very far....... Uh, it is invented and a T2 ship. It will take 6-8 weeks just to make the freighter BPC like with standard T2 processes, which have a 1/4 chance of success and so you have 4 billion plus 200 or so data cores each try (which have doubled in price in anticipation of the new T2 ships) and decryptors and such, so we are at 6 billion in no time flat, and take 2000 morphite and stuff and little things you need to get and it will be a real pain to build. Then the person selling it will want isk, so they will charge a lot at first, and they won't sell very many for several months. These ships will cost 9 billion for the first couple months if you buy them on the market. They will not be economical until long after the carrier nerf, plus logistics people would need to train the skills, which are like 60 days or something for carrier pilots, who often don't even have industrial skills at V. Jump freighter will be a toy for the first 6 months. We will need good logistics, and carriers will be nerfed so we might as well melt them until the freighter thing is sorted out. Prices are already down to melt anyway soon. Or you can recycle them and build dreads and haul with that. But the best thing is to melt carriers, as they will no longer be a front line combat ship anyway. We need 0.0 production centers to stay on line, and this is a cheap and easy way to deliver trit, pye and mex. Otherwise all wars will stop. So carrier melt is a good short term fix. One carrier melted can supply a big war for a week with mods. Oh dear We Ride Together We Die Together
Ponderous Thunderstroke Republic War Machine Industries	Posted - 2007.11.08 13:43:00 - [25] Originally by: Re Mi Edited by: Re Mi on 08/11/2007 00:05:27 Originally by: King4aDay I'm a little confused so maybe the op can help me out. What does this have to do with goonswarm? Not everything is about Goonswarm. Some posts are about BoB too. We need inter alliance cooperation when it comes to our carriers. This goes beyond the current wars. The best way to continue the 0.0 economy is to melt carriers. Who's BoB? Are they a Jita mining outfit or something??
Dafuzz Gallente Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.11.08 13:49:00 - [26] Originally by: Ponderous Thunderstroke Who's BoB? Are they a Jita mining outfit or something?? I am BoB, and yes I have mined in Jita. True story. BTW, I came up with the melting carriers idea long before you did. I even had Zzzzztrain train a racial skill up just so he could bring some to me as I didn't wanna train that particular race. -- -If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, riddle them with bullets..
Princess Jodi Vendetta Underground Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.11.08 15:23:00 - [27] I got a better idea: Melt/Sell your Carriers and buy GTC's with the isk. Then play CCP's game for years for free. Maybee when CCP stops getting my money they'll reconsider destroying the ship I've trained for.
Ecid Q'Wulf Caldari Galactic Fighter Syndicate Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2007.11.08 15:39:00 - [28] Originally by: Princess Jodi I got a better idea: Melt/Sell your Carriers and buy GTC's with the isk. Then play CCP's game for years for free. Maybee when CCP stops getting my money they'll reconsider destroying the ship I've trained for. The Problem with that argument is, that they will still recieve money, therefor not noticing any drops in value. (someone needs to buy GTC's for hard currencies so you can buy em for ISK). But how much i dislike the "canceling and their derivates" solution to the problem, i am pretty much unsure my self what to do with my carrier now. ________ A great man once said: "Rabble-Rabble" and "check my Corp-Ticker". Ive you come a across him, make sure to join his ranks (if your not german)

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