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Aranbaal Minmatar Malevolent Intentions	Posted - 2007.12.02 02:58:00 - [1] Well having read the OP i desided to crunch the numbers .. With al skills at lvl 5 and 3 dmg mods fitted on each ship heres what i get with the tier 3 bs's. These are all with highest dmg t2 ammo. Dmg Mega - 949dps Abaddon - 929dps Mael - 890dps rokh - 867dps So the abaddon comes second in the dmg stakes here by a mere 20dps. Ina fight the abaddon (and all amarr ships) have one advantage over every other race which everyone seems to forget. They can switch ammo types to the best one for teh job in a fraction of the time. Which means there guns are active more maing them the most effective. Also factor in that lasers dont need regular reloads in the fight (and if if your crystals do pop it is a fraction of the ime to add new ones) gives the abaddon a better effective dps. If the other ships had to reload 3 times during the fight thats 30 seconds of not shooting.. so thats 929x30 = 27870 extra dmg the abaddon does in that fight over any of the other ships. I havent included drones in this dmg because i for one never get to use drones. I am a low sec pirate and drones get popped by gate guns so arent worth using to teh averae pirate. Range Abaddon - 25km Rokh - 16.3km Mega - 13.1km Mael - 13km So abaddon is clear winner here with lasers having much better range than other guns. Tank Well you cant really compare armor tanks with shield tanks. Tere are far too many difference's to factor in. Armor 1st Abaddon 2nd Mega Shield 1st Rohk 2d Mael usin the omni tank of 2x eanm 1xdcu and 1 repper on the armor tankers teh abaddon is far better than the mega its resist bonus's give it a much more effective tank. So in conclusion, after doin the maths myself i cannot see what is worng with amarr and lasers. Do the maths yourself and you will see that in a normal fight the abaddon is far better than the other tier 3 battleships. Am i missing something here ? whats broken?
Aranbaal Minmatar Malevolent Intentions	Posted - 2007.12.02 03:41:00 - [2] Originally by: Jonny JoJo 1. Crystal take longer than conventional ammo to change if you have more than 4 turrets. This is because all slots load up the same crystal, as crystals load up differently from conventional ammo, as t2/faction crystals (i.E pvp crystals) they load up in different stacks. Also, players need to carry 16 minimum, sometimes as much as 32 or 48 crystals (to cover long and shortrange, and a backup set should they blow) this is 40-60mil in ammo. Next, DPS. What is the DPS does Amarr do? Thats right, EM, which is the highist resist on Armour tankers and the second highist resit on Shield tankers. (2 invul II = 1 EM hardner) Now work out the real DPS done after resist - you will see Amarr doing almost half real damage. Range. your chart is inaccurate. Rokh is longest range, able to hit 249km in sniper mode. Amarr with long range ammo need 3-4 tracking mods to be able to hit 160+. Except they have no slots free after fitting mods and heatsinks/cap mods. unless they want to cut back on recharge/damage, which is what they are doing currently. other races do not have this as a problem. Tank. Abaddon has resist bonus, so does rokh. Shield tankers are better than armour tankers for tank function, so Rokh wins here. Abaddon resist bonus does not mean much if it has to throw slots away for cap recharge/fitting as a player could put in a EANM and get the same effect. In your post, if we follow your logic, a Rokh using tach is the best ship for range + tank. Obviously this is not correct, now is it? Well you came out with exactly the responce expected. Firstly go actually read my post. Tanking .. i stated you cant compare armor and shield tanks they are completely different and work in totally different ways. That is why i state of the armor tankers the abaddon is the best. As for dmg type .. so amarr do the highest resists on armor tanks, so you say thi smenas they nead a buff. Well mimmi do the 2 highest resists of shield tanks which you have yourself admit the shield tank bs tanks better than the armor tank one, so this means by your own logic mimmi needs buff to dmg also. Changing a crystal - what about 1-2 seconds Changing ammo - 10 seconds Big differnce. Also you say you need to carry many different ammo types to be effective at different ranges, so does everyone else, difference is others cant really do it as amo takes up far more room than crystals. Ok so how is my range maths flawed? I stated all ships were fit in exactly the same style. guns and 3x dmg mod. under that fit the abaddon has better range with its high dmg ammo as my post states. I didnt fit sniper fits to the ships. So your arguemnt of dps needs buff cause of dmg type works exactly the same for minmatar as well. And as you stated shields tank better than armor so mimmi dmg must be even more broken than amarr dmg, by your logic. Your arguement of amarr being broken based on what you are saying now seems very flawed .. Do all the math yourself and see the results. Every race has benifits and deficits. Being minmatar means i have to skill both armor and shield tank so my skill tree is longer to master my own race and i have shorter range than others in normal fights, while doin less dps than most. But i dont complain i learn to fit arround the flaws of my race.
Aranbaal Minmatar Malevolent Intentions	Posted - 2007.12.02 04:06:00 - [3] Edited by: Aranbaal on 02/12/2007 04:10:22 So just got an amarr corp mate to check how long it takes hm to switch out crystals in his abaddon, total of abotu 5-6 seconds to select each one and switch teh crystal .. actuall putting in the crystal takes abotu 1 second. So on my maelstrom i have to go allong and switch out ammo on each gun seperatly just as the abaddon guy does wight take 5-6 seconds just the same and then i find myself still waitng for new ammo to load and being shot by an abaddon that has already switched out its. So i dont see what your saying. Afer testing i see it as far quicker to change crystals than normal ammo. Only thing i can think of is you must be doin somethign wrong if it is taking you longer. Reading your post it also seems that you seem to be saying that normal guns all switch out at once.. ? have you never fitted normal guns you have toi select and switch ammo in everyone seporatly just the same as lasers do.
Aranbaal Minmatar Malevolent Intentions	Posted - 2007.12.02 04:46:00 - [4] The test was done switching different amarr navy crystal's and he switched a hell of allot faster than i could switch my ac ammo, he switched from mid short range (scorch are they) to multi freq. I switched from my ranged t2 ammo Barrage to my short range t2 ammo hail . which i have to be honest i dont normally carry cause its teh worst ammo in the world ... too many downsides to it faction emp is beter than it but no faction stuff is better than barrage. Sorry dude i real cant see where you are comig from, and i cant tell you now that as soon as i can fly a vag i will be skilling for the abaddon because it is the best battlehips. It outtanks and out dmgs the others if you knwo how to fit it.
Aranbaal Minmatar Malevolent Intentions	Posted - 2007.12.02 05:15:00 - [5] Edited by: Aranbaal on 02/12/2007 05:21:56 Edited by: Aranbaal on 02/12/2007 05:19:26 Originally by: Judas Jones Aranbaal is the classic case of someone who plays with quickfit and does not actually have a 'clue' when it comes to Amarr ships. Im not a offline player myself so heres some in-game basics: The Hyperion is the Gallente tier 3 BS and NOT the Megathron as you previously stated. You have failed to take resists into account, Capacitor calculations, Damage types which invaludate your ** poor effort to play Eve Offline quickfit. the Maelstrom can run a near perma tank and offers some serious firepower with changeable range and** damage type without the laggy crystal change times. In neither PvE or PvP do you warp into a combat situation and trow raw dps at someone highest number wins, considering you have to take into account, rof, drones, sp's, range, resists, capacitors, numbers, jamming, tracking etc... all these things which you seem to have no basic grasp off. The difference between a newb and n00b is that a newb will not always be one you sir are clearly the latter. Try playing the game online and try commenting on ships/weapon systems you can actually use ya muppet and then compare them. Firstly does anyone actually use quickfit anymore seem as its so far out with most things? As for capaictor caculations all run till they run out of cap boosters which means they all easy last most average fights so not an issue. Resists would affect all the dps's. so i fail to see your point with tha. And dont use the old amarr we do the highest armor resist type dmg, when as pointed out above minmatar do the highest shield resist type dmg and as stated above shield tanks are better than armor tanks so if you do all teh calculations the minmatar dps suffers most. But there is no need to go into the who resist thing. You dont knwo what ur gonna be shooting at and hwo they gonna fit in advance. As also posted above yes i forgot about the hyp, i dont fly that ship or that race at alkl and knwo very few people that do. This is a basic comparison foo all those ships with max skills involved. So sp isnt an issue, drones were left out for reason posted above, range on those fits are posted above. identical dmg fits. Rof is taken into account when working out dps so you point with this is? As a whole you post seems to make little sense. The ships were fitted identically for dmg with high dmg ammo. You cant seriously expect someone to sit down and work out what dmg your gonna do to ever ship type with ever posible fit moving at every posible speed etc..?? I fail to see any real point in your coment. All i have posted is the result of the same fit in the ships and the results are posted above. Run the numbers yourslef you will get the same result. Look at things for what they are not from a deluded one sided point of view. I have looked at what others have said an posted the fits which show what most are saying isnt true. And to judas.. If you abaddon isnt tanking better than a hyp then you have the wrong fit. Seriously it out tanks all the armor tanking bs's. 1v1 a proper fitted abaddon will take a hyp apart with no problem ... To really out dmg the abaddon the hyp needs 3x dmg mods fitted leaving on 3 slots for a tank .. 3 slot tank = no tank. Cap issues are solved with cap 800's. Yes teh maelstrom is a good ship but the abaddon is far better. i am yet to see any non faction bs be able to fit the same tank the abaddon can fit. Even fiting the exact same fit on other armor bs's the canot een come close due to the high resists of the abaddon. Seriously people rethink your fits your obviously doin something wrong.
Aranbaal Minmatar Malevolent Intentions	Posted - 2007.12.02 05:39:00 - [6] Edited by: Aranbaal on 02/12/2007 05:45:15 Yes Grim86StonE alitle more cap wouldnt go a miss, that has to be agreed on. But still fitted right the ships work as they are now. At least you are not goin on about them not doin enough dmg as many people are, laser dmg is not broken at all. The ammount of amarr piltos that scream all amarr is broke is just stupid, when it is simple to prove they arent. All races need little things fixing, its just part of the game. trying to break a shield tank using minmatar is jsut as much of a pain t2 ammo is all on teh shield highest based resist just like amarr is on the armor. If i switch out to dmg faction ammo i am doin almost all my dmg to the highest armour resist so i cant win. But i work arorund it. And honestly the abaddon with the meanst armor tank arround. Am nto gonna give you my fit you can figure ur own, but having seen it in action time and time again ripping things to pieces while tanking everything in sight i know it works.
Aranbaal Minmatar Malevolent Intentions	Posted - 2007.12.02 16:26:00 - [7] I have ot love the you cant fly one so shut up people. make me chuckle everysinge time. Yes i have an alt adn yes he can fly an abaddon. So whats r next excuse for me not agreeing with you?? As for the maelstrom can switch ammo types to find the best one. Hae you ever tried carryin other ammo than crystals, you will find it tanks up massive ammounts of room so just isnt feesable to do when you need to carry cap boosters. Leavin a massive flaw in your point. The only race that truely can carry many different types of ammo at once is amarr, carrying anymore than 2-3 tops in anyother race means you leave no cargo space for your boosters. Also switching to other types of ammo with minmatar guns to break a heavy tank leaves you no longer doin any real dps so still unable to break the tank. You all sem to be having problems fitting an abaddon to make it work, you can give it a very very good passive tank and still do 700dps without implants. Damn that must mean its broken cause it tanks better than any of the other armor tanking bs's while doin more dps. Its fun to post in this threat, all the *****ing that goes on about various problems when the only thing that is even remotly valid is they are cap reliant. 6 minutes runing 8 mega pulse 2 a large armor repper a web and a scram isnt that bad at all. most fights dont last 6 mins, and if its big enough to last that long you are gonna die before you cap out it called primary anyway. And as for the point of drones, as i said i didnt add drone dps cause to teh averae pirate drones very rarely get used so make no difference. Pirates dont fit to rely on drones, soon as you fight on a gate or outside a station ur drones get smoked. Someone said teh carry 48 crystals, thats 6 different ammo types, damn sure wish i could do that in any other ships than amarr.
Aranbaal Minmatar Malevolent Intentions	Posted - 2007.12.02 19:06:00 - [8] Originally by: Jonny JoJo Look man, at first, it looked like you never flew Amarr, now it looks like you never flew Amarr and never PvPed. Rather that waffle about why your new claim of having a abaddon alt is unlikely to be true, since earlier today, you confirmed that you got a friend to check crystal times etc, I will do this in bullet points. 1. You Say Crystals = good because you can carry more crystals. Hello? You only need Long range + short range + backups + disposable Ammo for whatever type of battleship you fly in pvp. Thats 4 types. I am not even going to start on cap boosters, since Amarr have the strongist need for them. 2. Then you talk about OMG tank of Abaddon while doing OMG DPS. 8 Megapulse/conflag + Dual reps + Heatsink II = 135cap/sec for 691 DPS, Half of which is EM. Now any such closerange setup need MWD + Scram, and you said a Web as well. This brings the Cap usage to 194 for the inital stage of the fight. You better hope it takes you 2 MWD cycles to get to the enemy, as by the third, you are out of cap! So this means cap booster which means fitting mods etc etc etc. Once you add a RCU II (since PDU II is not enough gridwise) you are left with 3 rig slots and 3 lows. Lets put a DCII in. Oh dear, you now have 2 lows free, 3 rig slots free and lack CPU to fit even a single EANM. Damm, it looks like that 25% resist bonus, was like a Free EANM that I could not fit because I had to waste that slot on a fitting mod. Well, lets just hope the enemy does not have 2 EANM/DC combo, otherwise their tank may look a bit better than mine! Oh And 37.5% Melstrom Shield Boost = win! You fail at PVP when you say drones are almsot never used. Admit it, you never pvp nor have you a Amarr alt. Drones are used almost always. Stations only shoot agressors, but defenders, Wardecs and 0.0 use drones all the time. So stop making yourself look clueless, as you are a typical "i dont fly Amarr, but they are good" yuppie. Ah confrimation that you fly a broke tank.. Dual reps on an abaddon is the i lose of fits. Leanr to fit then see if your ship works or not. And a mwd on a abaddon not needed at all. You have over 20km range so no need to get any closer than you are. Just load up with amarr navy multi freq fit a proper tank and own the world. Stop fitting ships to bring out there weakness. Fitting 101 fit to your strenghts, abaddon has high resists so fits 4 tonne of armor all passive tanked while getting heatsink on. Only a noob would fit a ship ful of mods that drain there cap on a ship that nees its cap to fire. Sorry but you just proved you cannot fit a ship. So you must carry multiple ammos eh .. I carry 1 ammo type in most of my fits and its just fine as i dont go for chicken long range pvp. if your gona do it you get in and do it. 90% of piracy happens at under 20km range so no need to have longer range. Keep ur range fits to 0.0 fleet bettles where they belong. I know very few people who carry multiple ammo types for piracy they just arent needed.
Aranbaal Minmatar Malevolent Intentions	Posted - 2007.12.02 21:35:00 - [9] Edited by: Aranbaal on 02/12/2007 21:35:55 This tread gets more and more amusing with every post. So because i can fit an amarr ship with a heavy tank that works perfectly in pvp with no problems i am a noob. Better cange my fits to all include uneeded cap draining mwd's and fit fully active dual rep tanks so i can cap out and die in under a minute. Sounds like a plan to me. By saying you ships dont work you prove your fits arent right. If you wanna fly arround in a mwd abaddon then you have fun doin it. And dont feel to sad when you cap runs out and you cant tank because your fit is lame. Its so much fun to see you all get super defencive when someone shows that the claims you make are over exagerated. Cant wait for you next uber claim that makes you look dumb once again lol
Aranbaal Minmatar Malevolent Intentions	Posted - 2007.12.02 22:22:00 - [10] Edited by: Aranbaal on 02/12/2007 22:25:19 Then you mwd away. I fit ti fight not to run away liek a carebear, i am a pirate. I am lovin this thread simply because of teh poor arguments you guys are putting up. I know an abaddon can be fitted with a tank that no other armor tanking bs can match and while doin this its still doin over 700dps without drones if you have the dmg implant in. Now you say that fit is broken. thas your opinion, if having a ship that fits a tank others cant match while doin damn good dps meas its broken, then i would hate to see what can be done with it when its fixed. Also to see peole complain it caps out too quick when fitting mwd, dual reps and active tanks etc.. is just plain dumb. Of course its gonna cap out fast with those mods running what do you expect lol. As for the post above, you speak of sniper fits, tese are rarely scene out side 0.0 so why would apirate fit to counter them? thats just wasting slots. The abaddon fit we use can sit at a gate taning the gate and aything that wants to jump in just fine. Makes mincemeat of most bs's that come close. Actually try fits before claiming they cant work, stops you looking like a noob to all those who do run the same fit and know it works increadably well.

Aranbaal Minmatar Malevolent Intentions	Posted - 2007.12.02 22:35:00 - [11] o/ Mul, been a while. hows tricks ? Life is good up our way, and i even have time to have fun laughing at guys here who seem to think the abaddon fit we use doesnt work . oh well. Hope your having fun back in goons..
Aranbaal Minmatar Malevolent Intentions	Posted - 2007.12.02 23:19:00 - [12] Originally by: Goumindong Originally by: Aranbaal I switched from my ranged t2 ammo Barrage to my short range t2 ammo hail . which i have to be honest i dont normally carry cause its teh worst ammo in the world ... too many downsides to it faction emp is beter than it but no faction stuff is better than barrage. Hail is much better than faction EMP, which is worse for most applications than Faction PP or Faction Fusion. Against the ship that has the most advantage in tanking ex damage on armor, Hail does 24% more DPS than Faction EMP over the entire life of the ship, including shields and structure. Against an armor tanked ship, hail will be the difference between killing them and having them tank the entirety of your dps. So switching to hail means i get to kill my oponent does it ... Yeah but on the flip side of that it means i have crap raneg so may have to move to get into range to hit him, the my 8x 800mm t2s on my maelstrom all fitted with hail ammo = 8x 7% reduction in cap recharge which means my shield tank is gonna fail faster cause my cap takes a week to reacharge, hence making it not worth the effort. And to peacefull you question if i think your all wrong and i am right, i have come here and said there are abaddon fits that work FACT, there is nothign you can do to change the fact that there are. Then 3-4 of you all scream that they dont and i dont know what i am talking about. try goin out and figuring the fits out and see if they work or not. Then when you find they do you will finally take of you blinkers and see what i am saying, rather than just have the whole i'm uber i'm right ur not amarr you are wrong attitude. I have spent most of my gaming time fly allong side mainly all amarr pilots and almost every one of the fit the exact same fit to abaddons when engaging in piracy because it works increadably well. But feel free to keep goin on about how a fit you dont yet know doesnt work and how you need to have this and you need ot have that, its damn hilarious its giving many of us a real good laugh. I mean lest all go fit cap draining mods like mwd and dual reps to ships that need cap to shoot, then complain cause it caps out fast ..... noobness FTW
Aranbaal Minmatar Malevolent Intentions	Posted - 2007.12.05 01:04:00 - [13] Originally by: Jonny JoJo Again please read THIS if you want to see Amarr sniper problems vs megathorn for example. Question reguarding those fits.. If they are fit to fight at 170km as you say why have you fitted 3x tracing enhancer when only 2 are needed? If you fit 2 giving you a 180km range you get to fit a second heat sink 2 giving you better dps. And both the fits you posted do better than the tempest. If you cant do 0.0 warfare come back for some real pvp face to face in low sec. 0.0 Fleet warefare sux
Aranbaal Minmatar Malevolent Intentions	Posted - 2007.12.13 05:56:00 - [14] Originally by: Lord XSiV It is hard to determine which race to train during these times.....Gallente just got nerfed, minnie is possibly next, caldari is always a safe bet.... Wasnt hard for me to choose what to train ... Am currently training amarr cause nothin else can do what the abaddon does.
Aranbaal Minmatar Malevolent Intentions	Posted - 2007.12.18 16:24:00 - [15] Originally by: SkyCrane Originally by: Vrabac Amarr have massive issues, but battleships excluding apoc arent one of them. Again, they are bad solo. But they are very good in gang. Are you actually saying here that you think the Abaddon is a good ship? Or do I misread you here now? And you claim the Apoc to be good and the Geddon and Abaddon are s*it? The abaddon is the best tanking BS arround and does high dps to go with it. Which is why i just trained amarr cause my own race hav nothing that comes close.
Aranbaal Minmatar Malevolent Intentions	Posted - 2007.12.30 14:31:00 - [16] Edited by: Aranbaal on 30/12/2007 14:31:39 Originally by: Jonny JoJo Edited by: Jonny JoJo on 30/12/2007 10:55:17 Originally by: General StarScream And dont forget about the 1 sec reload to other type of crystals. and no ammo drain, this is a huge +. Ecept that crystals take longer to reload than conventional ammo if you have more than 4 turrets due to the year old crystal reload bug that they introduced when they made crystals decayable. Oh and crystals are most expensive ammo and they decay randomly. Amarr BS has to carry around 40mil of ammo, the most expensive ammo around. You also said they have decent tracking? Dude.... Close range Amarr weapons, such as Megapulse + Conflag, have worse tracking than even non-Amarr DREADNAUGHTS close range turrets Amarr are the only race to have worse than dread tracking. Dont you see a problem with that? I see no problem ith that. Amarr have Good dps Good range Bad tracking. al the races have a mix of the 3 nobody is great at them all, in case you have never heard of it its called BALANCE. And as for your so called reloading time problem... What problem .. in 90% of fights you dont have to reload where as other battleships may need to do so 2-3 times giving you 30 second of firing over these other ships .. meaning at the end of the fight your sat at the top of the killmail having done more dmg than everyone else because you didnt have to reload. Before *****ing about something look at its benefits, crystals benefits far out way disadvantage of taking longer to reload, Which i havent found to be the case anyway. i can reload my pulse in much less time than 10 seconds. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Proud to fly Amarr Battleships
Aranbaal Minmatar Malevolent Intentions	Posted - 2007.12.30 15:16:00 - [17] Originally by: Jonny JoJo Lets say you are sitting on a gate, a hac jumps in, and keeps you scramblend and orbits you at 15km. You cannot dictate range, you cannot shoot back because you do 0dps as you cannot track him. But a mega can. A Arty Minmatar Ship can. A Candari Ship can. Keep up the fail brigade - it is obvious you faking your pro-amarr stance, since not a single amarr pilot who does pvp actually thinks that crystals load in 1 second. Thats proof enough that you aint no amarr regualr. So a hac which are designed to orbit you fast so larger ships cant hit you is hard to hit with a bs ... wow shocking news. I flew mimmi ships for a long tima adn have near maxed out gunnery shills and i cant hit an orbiting hac ith ac's never mined Arties. You have to use tricks to stop them orbiting which can easily be done when on a gate. Once you've stopped them you web am and boom bye bye hac. If you dont know how to deal with little ships then thats your problem not your ships. I fly nothing but an abaddon these days and am always near the top of killmails in normal fights. I guess that must mean everyone else has bad fits and not that the ship actually works then eh. Go back look at your ships look what hey are bloody good at doin and you will see as with every other race they have a job they do well and a job they dont. No race is all powerful. If you cant get ur amarr to work just stop flying them and leave them to the many that can.
Aranbaal Minmatar Malevolent Intentions	Posted - 2007.12.30 17:49:00 - [18] Originally by: Jonny JoJo Having best close range is a flawed argument since pvp does not happen at those ranges. Pvp doesnt happen in close range. WTF......... Just because all you probably do is 0.0 fleet battles doent mean thats all there is. Almost every single combat i have ever been in happens between 0-20km, low sec warfare is almost always at those ranges. 0.0 fleet warfare is completely different to real low sec pvp where its all up close and personal. At these ranges you targets are webbed so tracking means little and amarr ships come into a legue of there own due to top class tanks while doin good dmg, which is highly bosted by the fact you arent reloading your guns multiple times in the fight so you are always doin near enough top dmg. So you do mainly em dmg which is bad against armor tankers that is couner by being good against shield tankers and by no reload times. So in real combat you damage is greater than other races. If your only looking at the negatives and not the positives then eery race is broken cause they all have negatives.
Aranbaal Minmatar Malevolent Intentions	Posted - 2008.01.06 15:03:00 - [19] Originally by: Paeniteo Lasers: Cons: - EM Damage type against primarily armor tankers (Two thirds of EVE) - The worst tracking out of every turret weapons system - More than twice the capacitor use of equal size & 'type' hybrids - Require you to carry tens of millions of isk worth of ammo on all laser ships - Beams require excessive amounts of power grid (Tachyons in particular) - Pulse have significantly lower DPS than blasters - Beams have significantly lower range than Rails - Switching used crystals is bugged and can take a long time - The medium range which lasers were designed for is extremely hard to govern Pros: + Lasers have a very small falloff ratio + Beams have significantly higher DPS than Rails + Pulse have slightly higher range than Blasters + Reload times are somewhat reduced (Refer to second last con) Now I am not at all saying that none of these cons should exist. This is simply the upsides and downsides of using lasers over other turret systems. The odd thing is the cons list is a hell of a lot bigger than the pros list, and the third 'pro' is actually moot because "mid range" doesn't work in practice. If you could add some pros to the list, go ahead and make my day. I can't think of any. Nice run through of pros and cons but i have to disagree with some of your cons as they are outwieghed by the pros.. - EM Damage type against primarily armor tankers (Two thirds of EVE) yes in theory a con. But when countered by the fact that you not stopping to fire for 20-30 seconds in the fight to reload it more than makes up for one of your dmg types being against the highest resist. - Require you to carry tens of millions of isk worth of ammo on all laser ships This is not required for normal pvp. Might be needed for 0.0 fleet warfare which is much different but not for us pirates when almost all pvp happened within 20km which is always in the optimal of the amarr navy multi freq's. So no need for tonnes of ammo in the hold. - Pulse have significantly lower DPS than blasters Again not having to reload multiple times mid fight makes up for the difference, also having better range. - Beams have significantly lower range than Rails Less range more dps. Means balance, you cant have best of both worlds. - Switching used crystals is bugged and can take a long time Agian in normal pvp ( non 0.0 sniper crap) no need to carry many different types of ammo s you dont have any part used crystals in hold which means no bug. So amarr might strugle keeping up in 0.0 combat, but is far better in lowsec combat where things are within 20km.
Aranbaal Minmatar Malevolent Intentions	Posted - 2008.01.06 15:21:00 - [20] Originally by: Traeon Quote: yes in theory a con. But when countered by the fact that you not stopping to fire for 20-30 seconds in the fight to reload it more than makes up for one of your dmg types being against the highest resist. What are you talking about? A con is a con. Or do rotten apples taste better because the bananas next to it are fresh? Yes the reloading is a pro, and it's listed as such, and it's entirely unrelated to the damage types. That aside, even a 1400mm Howie can fire for 90 seconds, and it's by far the gun with the most reloading. So you call it a pure con. Way i see it is its setup that to balance the laser out. If they did other dmg types they would be far too powerful do to the no reloading. It all balances out. The game has to be balanced lasers do em dmagage to balance them out. If they changed lasers to different dmg types they would have to add normal ammo reloads to them. Then you would all be *****ing that you now had to reload all the time like everyone else. If you dont liek the way they chose to bablance them dont use them.

Aranbaal Minmatar Malevolent Intentions	Posted - 2008.01.06 18:02:00 - [21] Originally by: PeacefullNub Actualy - reloading time allready included in all dps calculation in this thread. (Just cheked - mega has 790 dps (7 neutr II + 3 magstabs II, no drones) with reloading time and 813 dps without it.) Ahh so you have worked out reload times and everything in a decent lenght fight have you. Most fleet fights last longer than one reload. So saying you have included reload times is just bull. You cant include them unless you have worked out the fight over a set ammount of time. People in this tread seem to have a very blinkered view of amarr. Only seeing what they deam as downsides when the upsides are bloody good too.
Aranbaal Minmatar Malevolent Intentions	Posted - 2008.01.07 00:52:00 - [22] Originally by: PeacefullNub Do you realy think that anyone here manualy added 30\60\90 empty seconds for dps calculations? Do you know where from this dps stats come? Maybe you think that all readers and OP used pan and paper? Looks like stupid gatechamping 24/7 burns your mind. No, realy - do you know EFT/QF? Its 2008 - not 2004. Ah so i am correct then you have based your calculations on a fight having 1 reload to get ur dps results. As that is how eft works. It factors in one reload to the dps calculations. So as stated try goin away and working it out with multiple reloads. And then see how much dmg lasers give ot in an prolonged battle. Basing your argument on what a 3rd party program tells you that doesnt take all teh factors into account isnt a very good way to prove your point.

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Close range Amarr weapons, such as Megapulse + Conflag, have worse tracking than even non-Amarr DREADNAUGHTS close range turrets