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Marqdest failed the honor test, and this thread will detail it.

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Sarah McTeef	Posted - 2007.11.11 08:09:00 - [31] Originally by: b0ing Quote: This is only a game. I disagree. I think everything is just as real as everything else. Chess is not purely just a game to me. Highschool football is not purely just a game to me. Certainly MMOs are not games to me. -They are all mediums through which we live life.- Please seek immediate psychiatric help. It may be very important.
b0ing Caldari Celebrating Life and Remembering Basgerin	Posted - 2007.11.11 08:11:00 - [32] Edited by: b0ing on 11/11/2007 08:12:07 Originally by: Sarah McTeef I hope your reputation as a morally smug self superior arse precedes you through the rest of the game. Look directly below this text. WTS self! I'ma 50m+ SP pure PVP char! RAAAWR! -Click-
Sarah McTeef	Posted - 2007.11.11 08:12:00 - [33] Edited by: Sarah McTeef on 11/11/2007 08:15:15 Edited by: Sarah McTeef on 11/11/2007 08:13:08 Edited by: Sarah McTeef on 11/11/2007 08:12:45 Originally by: b0ing Originally by: Sarah McTeef I hope your reputation as a morally smug self superior arse precedes you through the rest of the game. Look directly below this text. Repeat after me. Reputation is not honour. One has implict moral connections, the other doesn't. Guess which we use in Eve? And d'oh Your a genius. I bow. Still everything i said applies, bugger. edit really seek help, today.
b0ing Caldari Celebrating Life and Remembering Basgerin	Posted - 2007.11.11 08:15:00 - [34] Originally by: Darken Two Your test is flawed. And your forum post proves you have even less "Honour" than the person you accused of having none. You are what is wrong with the world today. Arrogant, self righteous jackasses, who try to prove themselves superior by tricking other people with their made up "tests". And hypothetically speaking, if he had given you back youyr MWD, whats to stop you from not giving him the 300mil or 500mil or whatever. Did you hand over the money to a third party to hold while you conducted this clandestine "Honour" test ? You are an idiotic individual and I'm glad your "Honour" victim didnt give whatever it was back to you. You assume far to much. I'm not going to even give a detailed reply to you. It seemes you failed to understand many things concerning this thread, and once again, your largest problem is that you simply assume far to much. WTS self! I'ma 50m+ SP pure PVP char! RAAAWR! -Click-
F'nog Amarr Celestial Horizon Corp. Valainaloce	Posted - 2007.11.11 08:16:00 - [35] Originally by: Sarah McTeef Edited by: Sarah McTeef on 11/11/2007 07:43:45 Originally by: F'nog Saying honor has no place in Eve is one of the dumbest things I've ever heard. The only thing anyone truly owns in this game is their name and reputation. These are the two most important factors in the whole game. With them you can rise from nothing or bring an empire to its knees (literally). If someone has a good reputation, I'll do anything to help them. If they don't, I wouldn't bother, no matter what they promised. How many times have we seen someone screw over a corp or alliance, and then what was seen of them again? No one trusted them, and they had no where to go. Others with a good record and known honor have been accepted into corps or alliances and helped them grow to astounding power and influence (not Bob-sized, of course, but from unknown to very well-known, not that the person in question is well-known). Let's look at some well-known figures: Chribba: who wouldn't trust him? His honor and question have done wonders for Eve and the community in-game. Who wouldn't trade a titan with him as the escrow agent? Miz Cenuji(or whatever): a well-known ganker who uses an MS to gank people in low-sec. A good kill ratio but not really held up as a great PvPer. Ginger Magician: Had one of the highest kill ratios ever. Ooo, he must be good. Oh, wait, most of them are haulers, shuttles, and noob ships, and he regularly loses to less powerful ships. Not so good after all. All three of these examples are well-known in Eve, but it's not their actions that matter, but their reputations and honor, or lack there-of. Reputation, he can have the reputation of being what ever. To argue that everyone should act in a moral fashion is absurd. It's a game, I mostly found it amusing that someone would do something so slimy to get off on a rant about honour. If they had done it as an anonymous case study it may have been of benefit to the community and sparked a good discussion. Instead it's a petty bragging thread about a hypocritical action. Reputation can be positive or negative. Honour implies morality, good and evil. I never intentionally said that reputation or honor was a good or bad thing. There are many evil pirates with a reputation of honor. There are also many who have no honor and take pride in this. These are players who can be trusted. If a pirate were to tell me he's going to kill me and take my stuff, I'd like him, as he stays true to his word. Or if there's a pirate with this reputation, I wouldn't bother trying to haggle with him for a bribe, I'd just fight it out. There are many people who play Eve who will trust a bloodthirsty cutthroat pirate who always kills and plunders his victim over others, because they know they can trust this person to do what they say. There's a certain reputation or honor in this. One knows where one stands. In real life I'd trust Hannibal Lecter over many others, because I know he's going to try to kill me and eat my liver. He has his own code of honor which he always follows. Too many flip-flop as the case warrants. Originally by: Karen Serasia Because some idiot decided to sell an internet connection to me and didn't think of the consequences.
Sarah McTeef	Posted - 2007.11.11 08:20:00 - [36] Edited by: Sarah McTeef on 11/11/2007 08:21:28 Edited by: Sarah McTeef on 11/11/2007 08:20:38 Originally by: F'nog I never intentionally said that reputation or honor was a good or bad thing. There are many evil pirates with a reputation of honor. There are also many who have no honor and take pride in this. These are players who can be trusted. You didn't have to the dictionary does it for you. Honour is good. Dishonour is negative. Note the necessary negative prefix. Reputation can is a valuation, positive or negative no implied morallity. There is no disreputation. Disrepute is close yes but that's for of repute which has a moral implication. Anyway biting hard on a troll leaves a sour taste, I'm going to have more beer.
F'nog Amarr Celestial Horizon Corp. Valainaloce	Posted - 2007.11.11 08:24:00 - [37] Originally by: Sarah McTeef Edited by: Sarah McTeef on 11/11/2007 08:21:28 Edited by: Sarah McTeef on 11/11/2007 08:20:38 Originally by: F'nog I never intentionally said that reputation or honor was a good or bad thing. There are many evil pirates with a reputation of honor. There are also many who have no honor and take pride in this. These are players who can be trusted. You didn't have to the dictionary does it for you. Honour is good. Dishonour is negative. Note the necessary negative prefix. Reputation can is a valuation, positive or negative no implied morallity. There is no disreputation. Disrepute is close yes but that's for of repute which has a moral implication. Anyway biting hard on a troll leaves a sour taste, I'm going to have more beer. Ever heard the term, "Honor among thieves"? Just because Dictionary.com says that honor automatically means good, doesn't make it so. Originally by: Karen Serasia Because some idiot decided to sell an internet connection to me and didn't think of the consequences.
Sarah McTeef	Posted - 2007.11.11 08:25:00 - [38] Originally by: F'nog Ever heard the term, "Honor among thieves"? Just because Dictionary.com says that honor automatically means good, doesn't make it so. Honour among thieves means they act good amongst their own. Not that they are good... And it's usually used as an ironic statement, as they turn on each other. I guess you hadn't heard of it.
Zavernus Hamarabi Caldari High4Life SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.11 08:26:00 - [39] Kudos to you b0ing, you've remained steadfast and havent sunk to name calling and links to mental disorder web pages. That's probably whats most win about this thread. Thats also a very clever trap (yes it is a trap, but one trapping character instead of isk or valuables) Frankly i'm not suprised he kept the gist module. He, like most everyone who plays eve plays it in a flat dimension where it's all about 'hooray for me to hell with you' and 'its just a game grow up' Yes it's a game, no i dont think it's real life. However (and this is a big however) playing with 'honor' and treating people with 'kindness' in game adds such a huge extra dimension to game play it's hard to describe. You leave the plane of just having more isk than the other guy, killing more people than the other guy, you end up with a further investment in the game. To those who think this is all hot air and a load of emo, answer me this: Does your heart beat faster when you kill someone in game? Does it anger you when someone kills you with a log on trap or smack talks you in local? Your answer is probably yes to both in varying degrees. How can that be? Isnt it a game? CCP, a request: Reduce metagaming. Remove POS's and POS warfare. Remove rigs. Quote: null Thank you, Zav
Le Skunk Low Sec Liberators	Posted - 2007.11.11 08:34:00 - [40] Edited by: Le Skunk on 11/11/2007 08:34:30 Originally by: Zavernus Hamarabi Does your heart beat faster when you kill someone in game? Does it anger you when someone kills you with a log on trap or smack talks you in local? Your answer is probably yes to both in varying degrees. How can that be? Isnt it a game? WRONG Monopoly is a game - that we can all agree on. If im playing monopoly and my opponenet calls me a***** face. Ill get angry When somone lands on my mayfair with a hotel on - im happy. If I find my opponent is nicking money from the bank when im in the toilet - Ill get annoyed. EVE is a game pure and simple. Its not real life, though you may make real life friends from it. SKUNK EDIT: Now someone will come on and tell me people who play monopoly are all heartless capatilist landlords.
Zavernus Hamarabi Caldari High4Life SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.11 08:38:00 - [41] Originally by: Le Skunk Edited by: Le Skunk on 11/11/2007 08:34:30 Originally by: Zavernus Hamarabi Does your heart beat faster when you kill someone in game? Does it anger you when someone kills you with a log on trap or smack talks you in local? Your answer is probably yes to both in varying degrees. How can that be? Isnt it a game? WRONG Monopoly is a game - that we can all agree on. If im playing monopoly and my opponenet calls me a*** face. Ill get angry When somone lands on my mayfair with a hotel on - im happy. If I find my opponent is nicking money from the bank when im in the toilet - Ill get annoyed. EVE is a game pure and simple. Its not real life, though you may make real life friends from it. SKUNK EDIT: Now someone will come on and tell me people who play monopoly are all heartless capatilist landlords. You should relax skunk, it's just a game Just monopoly money :P CCP, a request: Reduce metagaming. Remove POS's and POS warfare. Remove rigs. Quote:** null Thank you, Zav
b0ing Caldari Celebrating Life and Remembering Basgerin	Posted - 2007.11.11 08:41:00 - [42] Edited by: b0ing on 11/11/2007 08:44:28 Originally by: Sarah McTeef Anyway biting hard on a troll leaves a sour taste, I'm going to have more beer. Originally by: Sarah McTeef THATS IT I SWEAR, no more responding to obvious trolls. Good night. One thing that annoys me is people who call other people trolls who were only posting their true feelings in a mature manner. Either you totally misunderstand F'nog's meaning, or you are just a rude name-caller. WTS self! I'ma 50m+ SP pure PVP char! RAAAWR! -Click-
cal nereus Perkone	Posted - 2007.11.11 08:47:00 - [43] Originally by: Paulo Damarr Dishonesty is dishonesty the scale doesn't matter. This. Personally, I like what you're doing, b0ing. --- Join BH-DL Skills
b0ing Caldari Celebrating Life and Remembering Basgerin	Posted - 2007.11.11 08:58:00 - [44] Originally by: Paulo Damarr Dishonesty is dishonesty the scale doesn't matter. Just for the sake of being fair: I feel that dishonesty should be assessed differently depending on why the person was dishonest and what the subject was specifically. Yes, one would be foolish to think that just because someone was dishonest on a small thing that does not matter much, they won't also potentially be dishonest on a large scale thing, but to bluntly state "IT IS ALL THE SAME!! RRAAWRR!" is a bit heavy handed IMO. That being said, Marqdest was not dishonest. He had not made some promise to hold some item for me for 15 minutes then give it back or something. What he was was uncompassionate to someone who had just gone out of their way to freely help him out. To shorten it, I call it dishonorable. It shows he -may- not be able to be trusted, even if you feel he is your friend. WTS self! I'ma 50m+ SP pure PVP char! RAAAWR! -Click-
Ilvan	Posted - 2007.11.11 09:05:00 - [45] Originally by: b0ing It shows he -may- not be able to be trusted, even if you feel he is your friend. I'd say 99% of the EVE population falls into that category.
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2007.11.11 09:11:00 - [46] Originally by: Sarah McTeef [...]test is fundamentally flawed and hypocritical with your naming and then speaking of honour. You should have selected a character at random with ISK hanging that was proportional to his current wallet and income, or at least age. For all you know you were just dangling a loaf of bread in front of a starving man, then publicly chastising him for snatching it In my early days as a pilot, I was lucky enough to catch somebody mistakenly swapping the collateral with the reward on an escrow courier mission. I wasn't exactly strapped for cash back then, but the amount of ISK I made by being lucky had more than quadrupled my two-month savings wallet in a couple of minutes. I had absolutely no idea who I got the ISK from (no, AFAIK you couldn't find that from logs or anything), and I even made a forum thread telling about it, trying to find WHO that person was, maybe even give some of the ISK back (not all mind you, it was his mistake, I fully expected a "finder's fee", and I wanted PROOF that person was the right person, in form of information only the issuer and me could know about). Nobody stepped up to the plate and I kept all the ISK. On the other hand, if the roles would have been reversed, I wouldn't have expected the one who caught my mistake to make any efforts to return the ISK. I wouldn't expect anybody to do the same today either, but I would be very pleasantly surprised if anybody did. _ New character creation guide \| [CNVTF] corp recruiting \| Stacknerfs explained
b0ing Caldari Celebrating Life and Remembering Basgerin	Posted - 2007.11.11 09:13:00 - [47] Originally by: Ilvan Originally by: b0ing It shows he -may- not be able to be trusted, even if you feel he is your friend. I'd say 99% of the EVE population falls into that category. You are correct, and that is one of the reasons why what "I" did is not such a horrible entrapment slander scam as some people make it out to be. WTS self! I'ma 50m+ SP pure PVP char! RAAAWR! -Click-
Ilvan	Posted - 2007.11.11 09:17:00 - [48] Originally by: b0ing Originally by: Ilvan Originally by: b0ing It shows he -may- not be able to be trusted, even if you feel he is your friend. I'd say 99% of the EVE population falls into that category. You are correct, and that is one of the reasons why what "I" did is not such a horrible entrapment slander scam as some people make it out to be. No, but it is rather trite. This thread especially so.
Bimjo Caldari SKULLDOGS	Posted - 2007.11.11 09:20:00 - [49] honour does exist in this game , and I try to put some in too (invovling strangers) , no point in putting some of them in as I would be flamed for showing off or some other troll. so I am ,mostly, in agreement with the OP (he should remove the name of the other pilot, as that was wrong)
OMGimaDONKEY White Wolf Enterprises Harmonious Ascent	Posted - 2007.11.11 09:20:00 - [50] this thread is a narcoleptic mailman
Reticenti The Antilles Legion Quantum Star Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.11 09:21:00 - [51] Sarah, you're wrong, e-honor is important in this game. Think differently, then go recruit some of eve's biggest scammers into your corp. What he did was a social experiment. He wanted to test something, and had an outcome, saying that the outcome is inherently flawed is irrelevant and you have no authority to judge him. It's HIS isk, and tbh, he can do what ever he wants with it.
Darken Two Gallente Cruororis Consors Conlegium Ivy League	Posted - 2007.11.11 09:24:00 - [52] Originally by: Reticenti Sarah, you're wrong, e-honor is important in this game. Think differently, then go recruit some of eve's biggest scammers into your corp. What he did was a social experiment. He wanted to test something, and had an outcome, saying that the outcome is inherently flawed is irrelevant and you have no authority to judge him. It's HIS isk, and tbh, he can do what ever he wants with it. Yes but the question is....did he not run a scam to rob the other guy off his "e-Honour". And speaking of equating ingame morality to real life morality....do you approve of entrapment in real life as well. Originally by: Blind Fear Generally, when trying to be a puppetmaster, it is considered good form not to wrap the strings around your neck and choke yourself.
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2007.11.11 09:27:00 - [53] Originally by: Darken Two do you approve of entrapment in real life as well. I know the question wasn't directed at me, but yes, I would definetely agree we would all be much better off if entrapment was not only legal, but also widespread. _ New character creation guide \| [CNVTF] corp recruiting \| Stacknerfs explained
Reticenti The Antilles Legion Quantum Star Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.11 09:27:00 - [54] Originally by: Darken Two Originally by: Reticenti Sarah, you're wrong, e-honor is important in this game. Think differently, then go recruit some of eve's biggest scammers into your corp. What he did was a social experiment. He wanted to test something, and had an outcome, saying that the outcome is inherently flawed is irrelevant and you have no authority to judge him. It's HIS isk, and tbh, he can do what ever he wants with it. Yes but the question is....did he not run a scam to rob the other guy off his "e-Honour". And speaking of equating ingame morality to real life morality....do you approve of entrapment in real life as well. He did not rob anything, he was merely doing a social experiment. How can you rob someone if they don't have it? When did i say anything about IRL morality? I was talking about honor and reputation within the game.
Darken Two Gallente Cruororis Consors Conlegium Ivy League	Posted - 2007.11.11 09:36:00 - [55] Originally by: Akita T Originally by: Darken Two do you approve of entrapment in real life as well. I know the question wasn't directed at me, but yes, I would definetely agree we would all be much better off if entrapment was not only legal, but also widespread. I LOLed at that....good answer. But in all seriousness, if the OP had wanted to prove a point, he would have left the names of his victims out of it. Bringing the "Honour" victim's name into it just makes it look like teh OP is crying out for attention. This whole thread is more character assasination than social experiment. And one important point we all missed out on, where is teh proof that all this happened the way the OP says it did. Isn't it possible that he just got scammed or his ship got blown up and he is retaliating by making this post. Furthermore, he talks about 300mil and 500mil rewards for honesty. Where is teh proof taht he would have paid out if the guy had returned the module. This whole purpose of the OP seems to have been to show us all how awesome he/she is and has nothing to do with social experiments or e-honour. Originally by: Blind Fear Generally, when trying to be a puppetmaster, it is considered good form not to wrap the strings around your neck and choke yourself.
Darken Two Gallente Cruororis Consors Conlegium Ivy League	Posted - 2007.11.11 09:38:00 - [56] Originally by: Reticenti Originally by: Darken Two Originally by: Reticenti Sarah, you're wrong, e-honor is important in this game. Think differently, then go recruit some of eve's biggest scammers into your corp. What he did was a social experiment. He wanted to test something, and had an outcome, saying that the outcome is inherently flawed is irrelevant and you have no authority to judge him. It's HIS isk, and tbh, he can do what ever he wants with it. Yes but the question is....did he not run a scam to rob the other guy off his "e-Honour". And speaking of equating ingame morality to real life morality....do you approve of entrapment in real life as well. He did not rob anything, he was merely doing a social experiment. How can you rob someone if they don't have it? When did i say anything about IRL morality? I was talking about honor and reputation within the game. Sorry mate my quoting skills suck. The IRL morality bit was directed at someone else who claimed ingame morality and IRL morality were the same. As to your first point, suppose the guy had returned teh module, would you then consider the OP a failed Honour theif ? Originally by: Blind Fear Generally, when trying to be a puppetmaster, it is considered good form not to wrap the strings around your neck and choke yourself.
ZerKar Caldari Zen'Tar	Posted - 2007.11.11 10:04:00 - [57] While I follow your...Test fairly well...And while I can rather liken it to what the Gods do in order to judge mortals sometimes...I am not wholly certain what the point in all of it is. I, perhaps more than most, uphold my Honor and believe that Honor not only has a place but is far more important that what one has or can do, but testing random individuals of EvE to see who has and does not have it seems odd...So you now know that random individual 32 is Dishonorable to some extent...So we now know this...I guess the question is...So? I fail to see the importance or pertinance. If you wish to test the Mettel of one's honor pick someone of some importance. Pick at least a CEO or high Ranking Alliance member. Pick someone who has relvence to the rest of us. Otherwise, it would seem to this one that you are wasting effort and Isk on the faceless masses of EvE. Besides, most wear their Honor or Dishonor on their sleve for all to see. That is what Sec Rating and Bounty are really for. The rest often show you which flag they fly very quickly upon meeting them. +++++++++++++++ I saw the Sign...! O.o
ZerKar Caldari Zen'Tar	Posted - 2007.11.11 10:45:00 - [58] Originally by: Le Skunk I always honor a ransom, have had multiple billions of ISK trusted to me by many other people when working in an alliance, and always keep my word. Ill blow you up as soon as look at you though. How does this fit in your bizaree real world analogy. SKUNK Let me just give my answer to that question thusly: I want you in my military. +++++++++++++++ I saw the Sign...! O.o
King Aires Amarr Dragonian Freelancers KIA Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.11 11:04:00 - [59] Originally by: F'nog Saying honor has no place in Eve is one of the dumbest things I've ever heard. The only thing anyone truly owns in this game is their name and reputation. These are the two most important factors in the whole game. With them you can rise from nothing or bring an empire to its knees (literally). If someone has a good reputation, I'll do anything to help them. If they don't, I wouldn't bother, no matter what they promised. How many times have we seen someone screw over a corp or alliance, and then what was seen of them again? No one trusted them, and they had no where to go. Others with a good record and known honor have been accepted into corps or alliances and helped them grow to astounding power and influence (not Bob-sized, of course, but from unknown to very well-known, not that the person in question is well-known). Let's look at some well-known figures: Chribba: who wouldn't trust him? His honor and question have done wonders for Eve and the community in-game. Who wouldn't trade a titan with him as the escrow agent? Miz Cenuji(or whatever): a well-known ganker who uses an MS to gank people in low-sec. A good kill ratio but not really held up as a great PvPer. Ginger Magician: Had one of the highest kill ratios ever. Ooo, he must be good. Oh, wait, most of them are haulers, shuttles, and noob ships, and he regularly loses to less powerful ships. Not so good after all. All three of these examples are well-known in Eve, but it's not their actions that matter, but their reputations and honor, or lack there-of. 110% agree with you... The only thing CCP cannot nerf is your name and the reputation you have made for yourself. To those that think this is just a game, who cares about honor, where in your life do you draw that distinction... The views expressed above are not those of my corp or an expression of where my corp stands.
King Aires Amarr Dragonian Freelancers KIA Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.11 11:11:00 - [60] Originally by: Darken Two Yes but the question is....did he not run a scam to rob the other guy off his "e-Honour". And speaking of equating ingame morality to real life morality....do you approve of entrapment in real life as well. So using your example, the police setting up a marked car in a known high theft area have stolen a thief's innocence when the thief comes to steal it? The police didnt make the thief guilty, the act the thief did made him guilty... The OP was not a scam, it was a moment for someone to step up to the plate and that person failed... on their own with no help from anyone but his own lake or morality. The views expressed above are not those of my corp or an expression of where my corp stands.

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