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Brainstorm thread: Why is Eve's average account retention 6 months.

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Blake Ice Gallente Northern Star Enterprises Combined Planetary Union	Posted - 2007.11.11 20:44:00 - [1] Here's my entry. Completely time based skill system scares new players off after 6 months.
Horchan Gallente	Posted - 2007.11.11 21:59:00 - [2] No, I do believe it's because you touch yourself at night. --- Originally by: VJ Maverick Jita is closed on Sundays. It's a holy day.
Spoon Thumb Paladin Imperium	Posted - 2007.11.12 00:02:00 - [3] High learning curve Players need to take initiative to get into player corp to get at the "best" bits of the game, most of which follow joining a player corp or finding friends to play with chat with etc in eve Khaldari khanidpublic : RP channel for supporters of the Kingdom PLDN Recruiting
Spoon Thumb Paladin Imperium	Posted - 2007.11.12 00:03:00 - [4] or maybe Lots of people here the hype but most aren't the "hardcore elite" that Eve cates for in its niche Khaldari khanidpublic : RP channel for supporters of the Kingdom PLDN Recruiting
Spoon Thumb Paladin Imperium	Posted - 2007.11.12 00:21:00 - [5] Originally by: Blake Ice Here's my entry. Completely time based skill system scares new players off after 6 months. I personally have never found that a problem. Eve was my first MMO, and whilst I've tried others with XP levels, that particular aspect didn't really feature so highly. I had to do two grinds, one for XP one for isk Khaldari khanidpublic : RP channel for supporters of the Kingdom PLDN Recruiting
Ellaine TashMurkon CBC Interstellar	Posted - 2007.11.12 00:32:00 - [6] I'd put bet on missions. I know few types of Eve career: 0.0 - people start mining and missioning in highsec and then they somehow get into 0.0 and start living there, pvping, farming, trading, loosing wars etc. About half of them drops off in the beginning, they get killed a few times and leave game or 0.0 in despair. Others, stay in game for years and renew their accounts after many months if they had a beak. lowsec - people want to be pirates or pirate hunters, ho into lowsec, pvp and stay in game for years. industry and trade - people start mining and missioning in highsec, get into industrial corp or start own business, they play on market and some of them succeed and have a lot of excel-style fun, something like Capitalism II and transport tycoon but better, game for years. missions - people start missions in empire. They buy kestrel, then caracal, then drake, then raven then CNR. They move to Motsu to eperience the best lag they can get. One they they realise they just do the same mision 50th time, there is no chellenge and there is nothing more to get. Then they go play a game with more exciting pve.
Reggie Stoneloader Teikoku Trade Conglomerate Visions of Warfare	Posted - 2007.11.12 02:18:00 - [7] If the training system is going to chase them away, it'll do it in six weeks, not six months. I say it's PvP. People come in here, and they learn to run a couple missions, and they get freaked out by horror stories that they hear from all the players who've never left high-sec, and then they get a few ships and treat them like epic mounts, spending all their money on a cargo expander or two and thinking they're doing it right. Then they take a Bestower that represents all their worldly wealth into a 0.4 system, get reamed by two Myrmidon pilots with nothing better to do, cry like babies, get told to stfu or gtfo, and then they gtfo. As far as I'm concerned, many of the people who play EvE are lame and chicken. They need to either get with the program or find a game better suited to their tastes. 6-month average retention is, first off, a long time for anyone to play one video game. The only game, apart from EvE, that I played longer than that was Starcraft, unless you count Mario Kart and Super Smash Bros, which are frickin' sweet. Second, it's natural selection. After a few months in EvE, you're faced with a choice between a meaningless grinding carebear existence or the really real experience of low-sec and 0.0. Some choose empire and get bored into retirement, some choose low-sec and bounce. This is a harsh, cruel imaginary world, and some personality types are rejected by the game and the community. Others thrive. There's no shame in not finding a comfortable place in EvE. WoW is a thousand times more popular and successful, and I cannot survive in that environment. I have a buddy who plays Maple Story four hours a night, buys the funny Christmas hats and makes youtube videos of his little man hopping up stairs with the Rocky theme in the background. Not my cup of tea. Crusades: Bounties & Security Status
vinnymcg eXceed Inc.	Posted - 2007.11.12 02:18:00 - [8] The resion people quit after 6 months is not because of the learning curve as they have already past it at this stage. They leave or at least I think they leave because they get sick and tired of being blown up every five minutes, most of us that have been playing the game for a few years never had this problem as piracy was not that big back then but now there are more pirates than ever and it seems eve is failing because of it. Well there aren't really any pirates left either there are just these fools that pop people for fun, they call them selves pirates but there not. If CCP want to keep players after 6 months they need to figure a way to fill up the rest of the professions rather than turn eve into the nothing but PVP it has become Quickbar tread
ThaDollaGenerale R.E.C.O.N. Black-Out	Posted - 2007.11.12 03:56:00 - [9] ^ Oh dear there are other people in the eve universe who don't want to carebear around. You have space called high-sec, stay there if you don't like getting shot.
Blake Ice Gallente Northern Star Enterprises Combined Planetary Union	Posted - 2007.11.12 04:08:00 - [10] The point made about missions is spot on. 50 times through the same missions to get higher quality agents was a bear to get through. I think players like to solo a few months before being "required" to group. Making the PVE experience better will allow them to do so. If you don't find a good corp in your first month, then you will be hard pressed to get the books you need to advance.
Adunh Slavy KIA Corp KIA Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.12 04:43:00 - [11] I took an Eve break right at around seven months. For me it wasnÆt cause I was bored or died too much. I had been in two or three wars by then and did my share of wandering low sec and to my surprise, fared pretty well. I died some and blew some folks up. What pushed me to go was that I had lost focus on the fact that it is a game. I stopped having fun and instead was trying to accomplish goals and things started looking more like work than play. Add to that knowing some other guy had 4 bil ISK to my 300 mil I felt like I could never catch up and to catch up, I would have to work even more and not play. I lost Eve, it beat me because I forgot it was a toy. I canÆt speak for otherÆs of course, but IÆve heard similar reasons from others I have known that left and returned, they werenÆt having fun, and itÆs not because they were ISK poor or died too much, itÆs cause they lost perspective. Oddly enough, this is a credit to Eve, that we can get so wrapped up in it we start taking it too seriously. Maybe that happens to others at six seven-months as well, IÆm not sure what the solution is, I can only say I win Eve everyday now because I choose to do so. -AS The Real Space Initiative (Forum Link)
ZerKar Caldari Zen'Tar	Posted - 2007.11.12 07:27:00 - [12] Originally by: Adunh Slavy I took an Eve break right at around seven months. For me it wasnÆt cause I was bored or died too much. I had been in two or three wars by then and did my share of wandering low sec and to my surprise, fared pretty well. I died some and blew some folks up. What pushed me to go was that I had lost focus on the fact that it is a game. I stopped having fun and instead was trying to accomplish goals and things started looking more like work than play. Add to that knowing some other guy had 4 bil ISK to my 300 mil I felt like I could never catch up and to catch up, I would have to work even more and not play. I lost Eve, it beat me because I forgot it was a toy. I canÆt speak for otherÆs of course, but IÆve heard similar reasons from others I have known that left and returned, they werenÆt having fun, and itÆs not because they were ISK poor or died too much, itÆs cause they lost perspective. Oddly enough, this is a credit to Eve, that we can get so wrapped up in it we start taking it too seriously. Maybe that happens to others at six seven-months as well, IÆm not sure what the solution is, I can only say I win Eve everyday now because I choose to do so This is not too disimilar to me. I almost quit playing EvE altogether when I realize that the Leet guys would always be better than me no matter what and that I had choosen the most pathetic race in the stars (Save maybe the poor Amarr) for PvP. I came REAL close to closing up shop and doing other more fun and rewarding things but my friends wanted me to stay so I decided "Fine, I will train up someone else's ships so I can hold my own in PvP..." and did so and had some fun feeling what the other guys flew. (No I did not cop-out and go with the Uber Gallente) Then somewhere down the line I realized something even more fundamentally important "Who cares about PvP? You can do that when you have Billions of Isk and 50 Mil SP and are bored to death of everything else. Right now you are a Noob and someone's victim to be, why even concern yourself with it?" and I realized that it was not important to ME and therefore it was not important at all. Like you for awhile I was about to grind myself into a work-like dust trying to catch up enough to run with the big dogs in PvP but once I realized that I did not need to do that and there was no "Rush" I started having some fun again. The biggest thing I learned is that in EvE you have all the time in the world. You are always progressing and getting better as skills train so rushing into anything is pointless. Just take it easy and do whatever suites your fancy at the moment. +++++++++++++++ I saw the Sign...! O.o
takentwine	Posted - 2007.11.12 10:09:00 - [13] No. its because there are too many empire mercs/pirates which no-one likes.
Naviset	Posted - 2007.11.12 10:59:00 - [14] Originally by: Blake Ice Here's my entry. Completely time based skill system scares new players off after 6 months. I think the reason people leave / I'm probably going to leave soon is because the game is too boring. PVP = Exciting. 5 hours ratting to buy a ship, long amounts of time moving it to my staging area, etc = boring 6 hours of crap for 20 minutes of fun = Gone in 6 months.
Ellaine TashMurkon CBC Interstellar	Posted - 2007.11.12 12:59:00 - [15] "Pvp is fun and mining is boring" is a totally wrong direction. Pvp is fun because you can kill a ship that costed someone 5 hours of mining. Most MMORPG have instant gratification and "fun" presented on request on a golden plate. Take a WoW - want pvp, You go to arena and in 10 minutes you get a combat (fun), and then again and again, and you can do this all day and you even get medals! Is that bad? No, its good, people pay for game and get their portion of instant entertiment. But it would not be good for Eve, beauty of Eve's pvp lies in planning, risk management and drama of harsh death penalty. I mean killing and loosing ships when you can do this again without those 6 boring hours does not feel the same. Get some friends and pvp on Sisi for a week to see this.
Jaketh Ivanes Amarr Do Or Die And Live Or Try	Posted - 2007.11.12 15:33:00 - [16] Originally by: Naviset Originally by: Blake Ice Here's my entry. Completely time based skill system scares new players off after 6 months. I think the reason people leave / I'm probably going to leave soon is because the game is too boring. PVP = Exciting. 5 hours ratting to buy a ship, long amounts of time moving it to my staging area, etc = boring 6 hours of crap for 20 minutes of fun = Gone in 6 months. Use cheaper ships, perhaps?
Jade Mitch GH05TRIDERS	Posted - 2007.11.12 20:27:00 - [17] Originally by: ThaDollaGenerale ^ Oh dear there are other people in the eve universe who don't want to carebear around. You have space called high-sec, stay there if you don't like getting shot. I don't mind getting shot. I just don't like getting shot while my HUD freezes for 30 seconds.
Yamichi Wiggin Caldari Rising Knights SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.12 20:43:00 - [18] The first six months move FAST. In that first six months you can get dozens of ships, weapons, etc. The next six months goes more slowly. Around six months you have to decide between specializing and thus having very LONG training times (Battleships V, large Hybrid turret V, railgun spec..) or branching out and becoming a jack of all trades/master of none type. Neither idea is appealing to everybody. Personally, I'm ok with that. I like carefully helping noobs into the game, helping them have fun and when they get bored and decide to play something else after six months, I get their stuff. ------ Pain is weakness leaving the body. There is no love in fear
VB Sarge	Posted - 2007.11.12 20:54:00 - [19] I don't agree with the OP, but I do agree that it's easy to get caught up in and lost inside of Eve. It's a very adult game, and with that focus, comes the inevitable adult life. Getting caught up in Eve means losing contact with life. After about 6 months seems to be the average amount of time it takes to realize this. Some are able to handle this very well, and are the people who last for years in this game. Either that, or they gave up on life and exist in Eve. 6 months is also the same amount of time it takes to get decently set up. You can be in a Hulk mining full bore, or in a Raven pumping out lvl 4 missions with ease. At this time, if you don't already have a ton of ISK saved up, hearing buddies and corp mates talking about their billions of ISK seems to put things into a "i can never catch up" perspective. I'm sitting there now, at 200 mil, wondering, how in the heck? I wouldn't blame low sec piracy on retention, as those using that for an excuse were almost undoubtedly looking for something to pin their pending leave of absence on. Eve is a game designed for the more intellectual and mature. While you certainly see a lot that contradicts, the very risk vs reward system and lack of "point, click, win" is a testiment of one of the reasons why this game is so great.
Blake Ice Gallente Northern Star Enterprises Combined Planetary Union	Posted - 2007.11.13 05:41:00 - [20] While I do think that there should be a way for newer players to "catch up" to older players through effort, as indicated in another thread, I also agree with getting ganked all the time being a downer. I read somewhere that in the beginning there weren't jump gates and that ccp added them to provide pvp opportunities. ie. gate camping Since the population has increased, should they remove jump gates? Perhaps make it where you show up on the overview when you jump into a system, due to warp signature burst (like a sonic boom) and have a cool down of your jump drive that allows other people to warp to you to gank. This would still provide the pvp opportunities, but also allow an aloof pilot with a little luck to warp harmlessly. Another option would be to allow for some Han Solo moments where you could, with a skill, break the warp scramble over time. The larger the ship the longer for your skill to break the warp scramble. Balanced correctly, this would create some good stories to tell the guys. These ideas would help separate people who are looking for a fight from people who are just wanting to get from point A to B.
Adunh Slavy KIA Corp KIA Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.13 06:13:00 - [21] Originally by: Blake Ice I read somewhere that in the beginning there weren't jump gates and that ccp added them to provide pvp opportunities. ie. gate camping Since the population has increased, should they remove jump gates? à Gates were never needed for PVP, but I suspect it was the expedient choice. They certainly are not needed now, in fact they are causing more problems than they solve at this point. But players have come to expect a certain amount of contact. So, if gates were to be removed, suitable alternatives would need to be found. If you want, feel free to bring your ideas to this thread below, and share them. The idea in the thread is a long read, but perhaps worth while. http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=625147&page=1 -AS The Real Space Initiative (Forum Link)
Admiral Nova Strike Team Nova	Posted - 2007.11.13 08:44:00 - [22] 6 months is a fairly long time for most peoples attention span. I'd hazard a guess that games like WoW have a 1-2 month average subscription, though with people coming back for a few months every now and again. Eve I think has alot of people leave after 1 month, and alot after many years. TBH I don't think that for the most part people leaving has to do with the game, but more their real life circumstances / interests etc.
Malarki X Caldari Ad Astra Vexillum Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2007.11.13 09:31:00 - [23] I was on a limb few months ago. Needed a cyno alt badly, but wasnt ready to buy a new account and start grinding SPs just to have a cyno alt. One could say - you dont have to grind SP if its just a cyno alt - but when youre paying for account, you might as well get SPs and perhaps sell the char after a while ... Anyway - like the game, but do miss XP system, since I spend way too much time loged in. So could progress faster ...
Hykke Free Imperial Vikings Imperial Trade Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.13 13:53:00 - [24] Originally by: Malarki X Anyway - like the game, but do miss XP system, since I spend way too much time loged in. So could progress faster ... I like the game because even if i don't play 24/7 (like some people) I'm not left behind, I can still play an active role when I have time to play. In fact I think the ONLY reason I'm still playing the game after 2+ years is that there are still that extra skill to train, and that extra ship to try :-) ----------------------------------- Dubito, ergo cogito, ergo sum
Vorgdummychar	Posted - 2007.11.13 14:53:00 - [25] Plain and simple: Because of the repetative gameplay. No interaction. Static enviroment. It all has pretty clouds and grafx but all the stuff that looks oh so intimidating complicated on the first log in, is just poorly designed UI and mechanics. It starts with UI lag and ends with lasers shooting through objects. Your agents are the average "give me a quest" guy from every other mmog with the exception that you dont get to see anything cool. You shoot at red crossed far away and basically play the game with repetative actions of some buttons. So many little things that arent polished, where you think that CCP just went the way of least resistance. After 6 months you understood the farce, the big overlay that makes the game look complicated when its, in truth, just the same over and over again, with no love to detail, no passion, no enthusiasm. The guys who made this game might begreat coders, but they surely arent great designers.
Ellaine TashMurkon CBC Interstellar	Posted - 2007.11.13 15:03:00 - [26] Edited by: Ellaine TashMurkon on 13/11/2007 15:03:13 Thats a perfect example of what I was saying, people don't even play Eve, they run missions and do not realise its just the most boring 1% of the universe created only to grind standings :)
Washell Olivaw	Posted - 2007.11.13 15:25:00 - [27] Edited by: Washell Olivaw on 13/11/2007 15:24:59 For every guy that stays 3 years, 6 can quit after a month. The average retention of 6 months means nothing. You need more indepth figures to have any kind of meaningfull debate over it. Quote: Everybody has a photographic memory, some people just don't have film.
Danton Marcellus Nebula Rasa Holdings	Posted - 2007.11.13 15:35:00 - [28] The majority of players being casual, or they wouldn't be on the 'inside' still, are put off by the hardcore nature of life in 0.0. Alliances out there requiring very dedicated members and many mandatory flighthours logged. Here's my take on what need to happen to the game to encourage the casual gamer to go for their place in the sun, or 'outside' as I choose to call it, 0.0. "Personally I'm still on the 4+ year crusade of nerfing the map. As it stands right now according to some reports 9% of the people control all of 0.0 due to them seemingly having no life, hey I wish I had those people on my crew. Problem with the map is that it gives the 'powers that be' a remote control of the systems and allows for a smaller force than desirable to control vasts areas of space. Cutting into this free feed of information would force people to amp up or pipe down and settle for less. Thus leaving more free space for other entities to emerge in without the 30+ minute smackdown guaranteed. In short; if it's boring you're doing it too much." The map as it is now need to go, there need to be some sort of fog of war on there and preferably some charisma based skills for obtaining fresh intel on select locations if anything, not just opening the map and shift layers. Should/would/could have, HAVE you chav! Also Known As
Danjira Ryuujin Caldari	Posted - 2007.11.13 17:29:00 - [29] Originally by: Ellaine TashMurkon missions - people start missions in empire. They buy kestrel, then caracal, then drake, then raven then CNR. They move to Motsu to eperience the best lag they can get. One they they realise they just do the same mision 50th time, there is no chellenge and there is nothing more to get. Then they go play a game with more exciting pve. I've convinced 3 or 4 friends to play and as soon as they got to a drake they got bored and quit. Couldn't even talk them into joining a player corp. Amarr - Annoying the Eve Community since 2005
Jenjuan Gallente	Posted - 2007.11.13 17:57:00 - [30] Allow a team to operate a large vessel, such as in this post: something like this would make it easier for newer corps and players to get into high end ships that up until now can only be flown by Characters that are at LEAST 6 months old. Keep in mind it's not just the skill to fly the ship, you need Jump Drives at a certain level, you need your Drones, Guns, Reppers, Shielding, everything to be at a cerain level before you can even think about getting a Mothership. [url=http://profile.xfire.com/jenjuan][/url]

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