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Alitha Maru
Minmatar Hidden Agenda Deep Space Engineering
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Posted - 2007.11.12 02:04:00 -
[1]
Anyone know why they want to change these? |
Arkady Sadik
Gradient Electus Matari
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Posted - 2007.11.12 02:24:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Arkady Sadik on 12/11/2007 02:26:44 To give some numbers for those not on SiSi:
TQ: +30% recharge, -15% max cap SiSi: +26% recharge, -10% max cap
Which means basically no change in the resulting recharge rate, but less of a hit on the max cap of active shield tankers. Revelations 3 - The State Rejoices.
Edit: Tech 1 and named are adjusted similarly.
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Alitha Maru
Minmatar Hidden Agenda Deep Space Engineering
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Posted - 2007.11.12 02:30:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Arkady Sadik Edited by: Arkady Sadik on 12/11/2007 02:26:44 To give some numbers for those not on SiSi:
TQ: +30% recharge, -15% max cap SiSi: +26% recharge, -10% max cap
Which means basically no change in the resulting recharge rate, but less of a hit on the max cap of active shield tankers. Revelations 3 - The State Rejoices.
Edit: Tech 1 and named are adjusted similarly.
Well, my shield tanked Dominix just failed on SiSi. It used to work perfectly until they changed the numbers, so it the result can't be identical....
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Mister Xerox
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Posted - 2007.11.12 02:40:00 -
[4]
Currently the capacitor nerf renders pretty much anything labeled 'flux' pointless (Both cap flux & shield flux).
The new stats are far more favorable... a 4% reduction in recharge rate for T2, but a rather large 5% drop on how much you sacrafice on cap (20% roughly reduction in recharge time, but a massive 33.3% less capacitor reduction).
But still broken.
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Alitha Maru
Minmatar Hidden Agenda Deep Space Engineering
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Posted - 2007.11.12 02:46:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Mister Xerox Currently the capacitor nerf renders pretty much anything labeled 'flux' pointless (Both cap flux & shield flux).
The new stats are far more favorable... a 4% reduction in recharge rate for T2, but a rather large 5% drop on how much you sacrafice on cap (20% roughly reduction in recharge time, but a massive 33.3% less capacitor reduction).
But still broken.
Broken is the right word. I have to rethink my active shield tanks. Because they relied heavily on CFC IIs. As it is now, I would have to switch to CPR IIs, and then lose shield boost amount. Which pretty much goes against all what active shield tanks stand for.
A bit sad. I'd started to enjoy trying out different setup on different ships, and the CFC IIs made much of that possible as far as shield tanks are concerned. My CNR still works though, but I was really enjoying using other ships.
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Gor Kraon
Minmatar Red Alliance
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Posted - 2007.11.12 02:53:00 -
[6]
I fail to see how this is bad. Unless my math is wrong, they actually increase recharge a tiny bit over previous...
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Alitha Maru
Minmatar Hidden Agenda Deep Space Engineering
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Posted - 2007.11.12 03:03:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Gor Kraon I fail to see how this is bad. Unless my math is wrong, they actually increase recharge a tiny bit over previous...
Well, math or no math, the fact is that in practical use this setup worked perfectly and ran forever with my skills and implants before the nerf. Now it does not. So something went wrong if the result was to be the same.
Dominix:
High: 2x Drone Link Augmentor I 4x Medium Modulated Energy Beam I (Gamma S)
Med: X-Large Shield Booster II Shield Boost Amplifier II Heat Dissipation Field II Ballistic Deflection Field II Invulnerability Field II
Low: 2x Heat Sink II 4x Capacitor Flux Coil II Capacitor Power Relay II
Rigs: 3x Capacitor Control Circuit I
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Arkady Sadik
Gradient Electus Matari
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Posted - 2007.11.12 04:23:00 -
[8]
According to EFT, your setup runs for close to 9 minutes (current TQ numbers). It runs permanently when you disable one laser. Is it possible you used the lasers more on SiSi to test this?
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Alitha Maru
Minmatar Hidden Agenda Deep Space Engineering
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Posted - 2007.11.12 04:34:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Arkady Sadik According to EFT, your setup runs for close to 9 minutes (current TQ numbers). It runs permanently when you disable one laser. Is it possible you used the lasers more on SiSi to test this?
You did not have my skills and implants in EFT. As I said, it used to work perfectly. Now it does not.
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Waterfowl Democracy
The Ministry of Indigenous Affairs GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.11.12 04:45:00 -
[10]
That is the worst Dominix fitting I've ever seen.
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Vio Geraci
Amarr GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.11.12 04:50:00 -
[11]
This is the worst fitting of ANY kind I have ever seen, never mind Dominix.
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KD.Fluffy
The Avalon Foundation Knights Of Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.11.12 06:34:00 -
[12]
yea that domi fitting is pretty freakin bad lol! Boost The Eagle! |
Cornette
Gallente Mercenaries of Andosia Veritas Immortalis
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Posted - 2007.11.12 09:50:00 -
[13]
If it worked for the op then there is nothing wrong with that setup. Gees some people can't think outside of the box
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Captain Agemman
Minmatar Legio Ultra
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Posted - 2007.11.12 10:46:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Arkady Sadik According to EFT, your setup runs for close to 9 minutes (current TQ numbers). It runs permanently when you disable one laser. Is it possible you used the lasers more on SiSi to test this?
I've built this setup too and it permaruns for me (EFT v2.3). 85.5 consumption, 85.7 cap generation. All 5 character, no implants.
Oh, and for a single module, the new CFCII is slightly better, yes, but in a setup with a lot of capmods aimed at generating alot of cap/s by pushing the recharge rate to levels where cap/s starts to explode upwards regardless of the cap amount, they are worse because you now need more mods to get the recharge rate that low.
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Hoshi
Blackguard Brigade Aftermath Alliance
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Posted - 2007.11.12 11:35:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Captain Agemman
Oh, and for a single module, the new CFCII is slightly better, yes, but in a setup with a lot of capmods aimed at generating alot of cap/s by pushing the recharge rate to levels where cap/s starts to explode upwards regardless of the cap amount, they are worse because you now need more mods to get the recharge rate that low.
That doesn't make sense in any possible way. Its effective cap recharge increase will not magically become lower just because you fit several of them.
Here is the math for anyone that cares.
Dominix (level 5 skills no implants): Cap amount: 6250 Recharge time: 815.625 Peak cap recharge: 18.4
With 4 Cap flux coil II Old: Cap amount: 3262.5 Recharge time: 195.8 Peak cap recharge: 40
New: Cap amount: 4100.6 Recharge time: 244.6 Peak cap recharge: 40.2
Add a relay II and 3 CCC I's to this and you get Old peak recharge: 85.7 New peak recharge: 86.2
So there are 3 options, either the relay or CCC changed as well or you have a bug (possibly the one there skills are not applied as they should, try repacking the ship, won't cost you anything on sisi). Or 3rd you skills on sisi doesn't match the ones on TQ. ---------------------------------------- A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations |
Stakhanov
The Good Fellas
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Posted - 2007.11.12 11:58:00 -
[16]
Why are you folks surprised to see a bad ship setup here ? We're discussing cap flux coils after all
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Alitha Maru
Minmatar Hidden Agenda Deep Space Engineering
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Posted - 2007.11.12 12:31:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Alitha Maru on 12/11/2007 12:32:27
Originally by: Hoshi So there are 3 options, either the relay or CCC changed as well or you have a bug (possibly the one there skills are not applied as they should, try repacking the ship, won't cost you anything on sisi). Or 3rd you skills on sisi doesn't match the ones on TQ.
Well, for me, tried repacking and rebuilding the ship and same result. SiSi skills taken into account for all purposes. I train the same skills both places.
And to the comments on my ship, the point was to have my drones take on BS and Cruisers fast while my medium lasers cut the Frigates and Destroyers to pieces and to make it cheap to set-up and maintain. And it worked perfectly. And missions went very fast. All Gallente and Minmatar lvl 4 missions went by without even a scratch.
So how a ship fails when it does all that you want it to do, and fast, I can't understand. But the person above here is right, we are discussing CFC IIs in this topic and not ship setups.
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Hoshi
Blackguard Brigade Aftermath Alliance
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Posted - 2007.11.12 13:07:00 -
[18]
Could you please post your what cap amount/recharge time your domi gets on sisi?
---------------------------------------- A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations |
Alitha Maru
Minmatar Hidden Agenda Deep Space Engineering
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Posted - 2007.11.12 13:17:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Hoshi Could you please post your what cap amount/recharge time your domi gets on sisi?
With skills and implants my Capacitor is: 4223 and has a recharge rate of 110 sec. With that setup. I found another setup that works though.
But, what I really wanted to know the first time around was what motivation do CCP have for changing the CFC in the first place? I didn't know it was broken, as it worked perfectly for me
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Hoshi
Blackguard Brigade Aftermath Alliance
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Posted - 2007.11.12 13:46:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Alitha Maru
Originally by: Hoshi Could you please post your what cap amount/recharge time your domi gets on sisi?
With skills and implants my Capacitor is: 4223 and has a recharge rate of 110 sec. With that setup. I found another setup that works though.
But, what I really wanted to know the first time around was what motivation do CCP have for changing the CFC in the first place? I didn't know it was broken, as it worked perfectly for me
Well amount/recharge is what it should be so that means you have better peak recharge now then you used to so there must be something else that has changed. As said earlier in this thread CFCs are better now in every aspect than they used to be. ---------------------------------------- A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations |
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Alitha Maru
Minmatar Hidden Agenda Deep Space Engineering
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Posted - 2007.11.12 13:52:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Hoshi Well amount/recharge is what it should be so that means you have better peak recharge now then you used to so there must be something else that has changed. As said earlier in this thread CFCs are better now in every aspect than they used to be.
Yeah, maybe. Could be some other module got hit and the description is not updated yet, I don't know. I just know it used to work, and then didn't. That's why I wondered in the first place. I've already adapted on a few ships and setups.
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Arkady Sadik
Gradient Electus Matari
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Posted - 2007.11.12 13:58:00 -
[22]
As for the "why" - this is probably in line with the rest of the shield tanking boosts in Rev3 (compare the named shield boosters), which in turn are in line with the general Caldari boost (ECM, torps).
(No one but active shield tankers use flux coils. CPRs are better in every respect, except that they kill your shield boost amount.)
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Hoshi
Blackguard Brigade Aftermath Alliance
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Posted - 2007.11.12 15:40:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Arkady Sadik As for the "why" - this is probably in line with the rest of the shield tanking boosts in Rev3 (compare the named shield boosters), which in turn are in line with the general Caldari boost (ECM, torps).
(No one but active shield tankers use flux coils. CPRs are better in every respect, except that they kill your shield boost amount.)
The shield boosting changes are only to t1/t1 named, not to t2 and the changes means less or equal cap usage as before, not more.
The only thing I can think of atm why it still doesn't work for you would be something like the a bug with the shield compensation skill or something similar. Try checking the cap usage of both your shield booster and your gun and compare that to TQ and see if you spot any difference. ---------------------------------------- A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations |
Argenton Sayvers
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Posted - 2007.11.12 20:33:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Stakhanov Why are you folks surprised to see a bad ship setup here ? We're discussing cap flux coils after all
Indeed. Its so much better to pay 4b ISK each for chelm PDUs instead of 2m ISK modules that get you more cap regen per low slot. Yes indeed, worthless junk.
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Bein Glorious
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.11.12 20:54:00 -
[25]
My advice for that Dominix fitting is, if nothing else, that you could try using dual light beam lasers instead of medium beam lasers. That should use only 2/3 of the cap that medium beams use and you only lose 20 DPS.
Alternatively, switch one heat sink II for another cap flux coil and leave the guns alone; you get just about the same result. This is probably the better choice, though shield tanking laser dominixes are pretty weird, even if it's for mission running, just sayin' |
Roemy Schneider
BINFORD Solidus Alliance
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Posted - 2007.11.12 23:46:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Arkady Sadik TQ: +30% recharge, -15% max cap SiSi: +26% recharge, -10% max cap
0.85 / 0.70 = 1.2142857142857142857142857142857 0.90 / 0.74 = 1.2162162162162162162162162162162
1.0015898251192368839427662957081 yay \o/ they got boosted -.- - putting the gist back into logistics |
Arkady Sadik
Gradient Electus Matari
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Posted - 2007.11.13 13:58:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Hoshi
Originally by: Arkady Sadik As for the "why" - this is probably in line with the rest of the shield tanking boosts in Rev3 (compare the named shield boosters), which in turn are in line with the general Caldari boost (ECM, torps).
(No one but active shield tankers use flux coils. CPRs are better in every respect, except that they kill your shield boost amount.)
The shield boosting changes are only to t1/t1 named, not to t2 and the changes means less or equal cap usage as before, not more.
Sorry, I meant "why are they changing this module", not "why does it change the Domi setup"
And to the other poster: Yes, I thought Cap Flux Coils are completely useless myself, until I tried to fit a perma-running active shield tank. I got converted within seconds. (Still need the same "enlightenment" for Shield Flux Coils, but I guess they are in line with Omni ECCM modules)
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