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Kill Mail Republic Military School	Posted - 2007.11.12 07:09:00 - [1] This would be an interesting change - For all cloaks below covert, cloaks no-longer stop you from appearing on the overview. Instead, you cannot be targeted or scanned! Basically, it means cloaks are still useful as long as people use safespots, and it also means that scounts who use cloaks still have a very good chance of getting away. It also solves the problem of "AFK" cloakers who sit in your system. They can be in system, but not have to be at the keyboard order to be look at gates / stations with safety.
sableye principle of motion Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.11.12 07:20:00 - [2] but then it would'nt be a cloack Join The Fight With Promo Today
Hannobaal Gallente Igneus Auctorita GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.11.12 07:21:00 - [3] Originally by: Kill Mail This would be an interesting change - For all cloaks below covert, cloaks no-longer stop you from appearing on the overview. Instead, you cannot be targeted or scanned! Translation: Let's kill off the Stealth Bombers as a viable ship class. Quote: It also solves the problem of "AFK" cloakers who sit in your system. They can be in system, but not have to be at the keyboard order to be look at gates / stations with safety. If they're not at the keyboard, they're not looking at gates and stations regardless of where their ship is.
Arlenna Molatov Caldari The 59th Parallel	Posted - 2007.11.12 07:27:00 - [4] The only viable option is to be able to scan out any cloaked ship using any cloak below that of a covert ops cloak II.
Kirex Vale Heavy Industries Molotov Coalition	Posted - 2007.11.12 07:35:00 - [5] So a cloak that doesn't cloak you?
Mecinia Lua Galactic Express Frontier Trade League	Posted - 2007.11.12 07:52:00 - [6] So you want to make it useless...... No thanks Thoughts expressed are mine and mine alone. They do not necessarily reflect my alliances thoughts.
Scav Silver Amarr Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.12 08:27:00 - [7] Agreed.. Make Black Ops useless even before they come out.. á ----------------------------------------------------------- "Scav est procul Porta!!" -=Pimary=- "Tonight you dine in....BKG?" -=Ashemi Darkhold=-
Grytok KL0NKRIEGER	Posted - 2007.11.12 08:46:00 - [8] I pretty much liked the idea that was suggested on the forums to make non-COCD II reduce your signature to 10% when cloaked, so it's pretty hard to scan you down, but it would be doable. Thats the only thing needed I think. Stealthbombers would've some 4m Signature Radius only, and if they keep moving, you would'nt find them anyways, as when you arrive at the scanned position, you still don't know exactly where they are. Only AFK-cloakers would be effected, as they would be decloaked flying circles at the spot you've scanned out. .
Polcor Rodal Amarr	Posted - 2007.11.12 08:53:00 - [9] God, i miss the times, when people were thinking BEFORE they were posting at the forums. Every week somebody has a new idea/fix for the cloak "problem". I agree, that fitting a cloak in 0.0 to rat safely is a lame tactic, but on other ships, like haulers, or T1 frigs it can be either the poor man¦s blockade runner or poor mans cov ops. Which is a viable tactic, IMHO. And ...flying stealth ships well, involves some player skills, creativity and brain. So guess whats the most dangerous weapon (hint: it¦s not the cloak). So i would support the idea, to increase the penalty to your combat ability fitting cloaks on non-designated combatships (yes, gimp the fighting abiliy, and that only !) And dont tell me, then people can avoid....then in fact you will complain not having enough targets - which is a complete different topic, and has its roots in other areas like flaws in the low sec concept, or maybe personal playstyle. Polcor If in danger, or in doubt, run in cricles, scream and shout
SoftRevolution	Posted - 2007.11.12 09:07:00 - [10] Originally by: Polcor Rodal God, i miss the times, when people were thinking BEFORE they were posting at the forums. Every week somebody has a new idea/fix for the cloak "problem". I agree, that fitting a cloak in 0.0 to rat safely is a lame tactic, but on other ships, like haulers, or T1 frigs it can be either the poor man¦s blockade runner or poor mans cov ops. Which is a viable tactic, IMHO. And ...flying stealth ships well, involves some player skills, creativity and brain. So guess whats the most dangerous weapon (hint: it¦s not the cloak). So i would support the idea, to increase the penalty to your combat ability fitting cloaks on non-designated combatships (yes, gimp the fighting abiliy, and that only !) And dont tell me, then people can avoid....then in fact you will complain not having enough targets - which is a complete different topic, and has its roots in other areas like flaws in the low sec concept, or maybe personal playstyle. Polcor Yeah. They should gimp your locking speed or something.
Mymain DreadMoros	Posted - 2007.11.12 09:59:00 - [11] Originally by: Kill Mail This would be an interesting change - For all cloaks below covert, cloaks no-longer stop you from appearing on the overview. Instead, you cannot be targeted or scanned! Basically, it means cloaks are still useful as long as people use safespots, and it also means that scounts who use cloaks still have a very good chance of getting away. It also solves the problem of "AFK" cloakers who sit in your system. They can be in system, but not have to be at the keyboard order to be look at gates / stations with safety. How about shutup? Cloaking is fine at the moment and doesnt need nerfing.
PiKacho	Posted - 2007.11.12 11:35:00 - [12] idiot
Alex Harumichi Gallente Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2007.11.12 11:40:00 - [13] Originally by: Kill Mail It also solves the problem of "AFK" cloakers who sit in your system. What "problem"? If they are afk they don't matter in least; if they try to attack you, you kill them. If an afk cloaker sitting in your system makes you too terrified to undock, you have problems that no game mechanic tweak will solve. P.S. Your idea is... "pretty bad", to be charitable.
duffmantt Dragonian Freelancers KIA Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.12 11:42:00 - [14] Quote: idiot And the award for the most constructive reply of the week goes to.... What we do in Eve, Echoes in eternity...
MNU	Posted - 2007.11.12 12:06:00 - [15] Originally by: Mymain DreadMoros How about shutup? Cloaking is fine at the moment and doesnt need nerfing. Thanks for asking, but it wasnÆt really necessary. You donÆt need to ask for permission to shut up. You can save you time from posting such questions and just do it, belive me - nobody here able to stop you. As it was previously mentioned, at the moment the current ways how cloaking is working causing some kind of lame tactic in 0.0 and lowsecs. IÆm not any kind of expert about 0.0 space due to luck of experience, but can say about low-sec. What you are going to do if you will see the same rat on covert sitting 23/7 on safespots in a system where you corp or even alliance is based, and constantly doing nothing and just spying. Considering that this pilot is alt of somebody (while the main keep enjoing from the game), he is not stupid, know what he is doing and not going to show himself or attend any fight - any tactic here instead of just watching such pilot in the local overview every single day? Now, take into account that this pilot is belong or helping to another corp who is at war with you or you enemy and you know about it.
000Hunter000 Gallente Magners Marauders	Posted - 2007.11.12 12:18:00 - [16] Now personally i don't see the need to nerf cloaking at all, just cuz a buncha whiners didn't manage to kill a guy that was afk cloaked in the system doesn't mean that it should get the nerfbat. But, if u do insist on making cloaking vulnerable in some way or another, then perhaps something like this. we have 3 types of cloak, first of i think the CO cloak should be left alone, once activated the ship cannot be scanned down or tracked in any way. this leaves the 2 others, the ones used most for afk cloakers, these ones should only be found by some specialized mod on a specialized ship (CO frig comes to mind), should take a long time to scan them down, together with a hi skill package to even be able to use the mods, probes, whatever ur gonna use So it's like this: - proto cloak, specialized ship, specialized mod, big skill prereq, takes a long time to find - advanced cloak, specialized ship, specialized mod (mebbe even a T2 mod to find it), (even) big(ger) skill prereq, takes even longer to find - CO cloak, NO!! Nothing in the universe will be able to find these unless u physically bump into it. PERIOD!!! CCP, let us pay the online shop with Direct Debit!!! Magners is now recruiting, evemail me or Dagazbo ingame.
I SoStoned	Posted - 2007.11.12 12:19:00 - [17] Edited by: I SoStoned on 12/11/2007 12:19:11 Cloak Fix: Non-Cov ops (Non-'stealth' ships) While cloaked: Signature radius reduced to 10%. 'Exploration' probes cannot be used for scanning ships below 1au. Shield & Cap regeneration cease. System scanner does not function. On 'stealth' ships (covert ships that cannot use Cov-Ops cloak) - 0% sig, shield & cap regen reduced 50%, System scanner functions properly. On Covert-ops - No change. For all (?) What function can be used to defeat AFK cloakers that cannot be macro'd around?
Reem Fairchild Minmatar Military Industrial Research	Posted - 2007.11.12 12:22:00 - [18] Originally by: MNU Originally by: Mymain DreadMoros How about shutup? Cloaking is fine at the moment and doesnt need nerfing. Thanks for asking, but it wasnÆt really necessary. You donÆt need to ask for permission to shut up. You can save you time from posting such questions and just do it, belive me - nobody here able to stop you. As it was previously mentioned, at the moment the current ways how cloaking is working causing some kind of lame tactic in 0.0 and lowsecs. IÆm not any kind of expert about 0.0 space due to luck of experience, but can say about low-sec. What you are going to do if you will see the same rat on covert sitting 23/7 on safespots in a system where you corp or even alliance is based, and constantly doing nothing and just spying. Considering that this pilot is alt of somebody (while the main keep enjoing from the game), he is not stupid, know what he is doing and not going to show himself or attend any fight - any tactic here instead of just watching such pilot in the local overview every single day? Now, take into account that this pilot is belong or helping to another corp who is at war with you or you enemy and you know about it. Sounds to me like a covert ops ship being used the exact way they're meant to be used. If any change is really needed it should be to make it so you can't see him in local.
Victor Hardenberg	Posted - 2007.11.12 12:22:00 - [19] Edited by: Victor Hardenberg on 12/11/2007 12:25:26 Originally by: MNU Originally by: Mymain DreadMoros What you are going to do if you will see the same rat on covert sitting 23/7 on safespots in a system where you corp or even alliance is based, and constantly doing nothing and just spying. Yes, but thats business you know, intel business. Of course this guy is sitting in local, constantly spying. i did this myself for about 6 hours this WE. It was a very valuable service for my customer. Originally by: MNU Originally by: Mymain DreadMoros Considering that this pilot is alt of somebody (while the main keep enjoing from the game), he is not stupid, know what he is doing and not going to show himself or attend any fight... Of course not, he is a spy/scout/reon, its his job to hide and gather intel, he is NOT there for fighting. This will be left to others. Originally by: MNU Originally by: Mymain DreadMoros ...any tactic here instead of just watching such pilot in the local overview every single day? You see, its local that is broken, not cloaking. . No, serious, if local wont be as it is today, i wont be that easy to gather information about the people in the system. But you maybe wont know that there is a spy either. The door swing in both directions. Originally by: MNU Originally by: Mymain DreadMoros Now, take into account that this pilot is belong or helping to another corp who is at war with you or you enemy and you know about it. Yeah, baby, war is a dirty busines, we know, and feel so sorry about it.
Victor Ivanov Minmatar The Fated Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.11.12 12:29:00 - [20] There is only ONE viable Cloak fix. Make it so that there is a timer on how long you've been cloaked. Every 5-10 minutes you need to manually reactivate your cloak. Let's be honest, AFK cloaking is the only issue anyone has with cloaks. Why nerf anything but the AFK cloaking then? ----------------------
Jaketh Ivanes Amarr Do Or Die And Live Or Try	Posted - 2007.11.12 12:36:00 - [21] AFK cloak fix: Increase local to cover an entire constallation, perhaps even a region?
adriaans Amarr Advanced Capital Ship Designs	Posted - 2007.11.12 12:42:00 - [22] Originally by: Victor Ivanov There is only ONE viable Cloak fix. Make it so that there is a timer on how long you've been cloaked. Every 5-10 minutes you need to manually reactivate your cloak. Let's be honest, AFK cloaking is the only issue anyone has with cloaks. Why nerf anything but the AFK cloaking then? this is one of the really few suggestions i've seen i would agree with. possible give them a set time they will make you cloaked, then you have to manually recloak. --sig-- Knowledge is power!
DethApostle Amarr Cruoris Seraphim	Posted - 2007.11.12 13:03:00 - [23] Originally by: adriaans Originally by: Victor Ivanov There is only ONE viable Cloak fix. Make it so that there is a timer on how long you've been cloaked. Every 5-10 minutes you need to manually reactivate your cloak. Let's be honest, AFK cloaking is the only issue anyone has with cloaks. Why nerf anything but the AFK cloaking then? this is one of the really few suggestions i've seen i would agree with. possible give them a set time they will make you cloaked, then you have to manually recloak. Except that in laggy systems that would suck. Example: Your deep in 0.0 in your covops frig spying on the enemy putting together their fleet for an op... local increases in number, lag strikes just as your cloak needed to be manually reactivated, you decloak, you die. Not good. I like the 10% sig radius thing. I have no issue with non-covops ships fitting cloaks, or sitting in systems afk, but i believe there should be a slim chance that you can find them. However ships designed for cloaking and sneaky stuff should not be scanable ever. Kinda smacks of bad design if they can doesn't it? Insert ironic sig here
Reem Fairchild Minmatar Military Industrial Research	Posted - 2007.11.12 13:17:00 - [24] Pretty much any and all problems (real or imagined) that people associate with cloaking are really problems with local and not with cloaks. Ratting Ravens, afk cloakers, whatever... It all goes away if you can't use local as a recon tool.
MNU	Posted - 2007.11.12 13:22:00 - [25] Originally by: Victor Ivanov There is only ONE viable Cloak fix. Make it so that there is a timer on how long you've been cloaked. Every 5-10 minutes you need to manually reactivate your cloak. Let's be honest, AFK cloaking is the only issue anyone has with cloaks. Why nerf anything but the AFK cloaking then? That what the most peoples usually asking over and over. I also was spying using covert and understand that I can put my alt in covert sitting in the enemy system for forever and using him only when I really need to spy while my main will run missions for ISKs . While the rest of the system will have to watch their backs 23/7 because they have no way to know if IÆm AFK or not at the moment. IMHO this is not something reasonable for the gameplay expirience. Now, my half-AFK covert in you system and yours in my. What we have won beside of making each other at the same boat? The timer or something can fix it, but such timer needs to be short enough to make peoples really working do to their spy/scout job. 5-10 minutes is may be reasonable, but I'm not sure it will work 100%. Than you will see a lot of whiners complaining about their hunted coverts while they were in a restroom or something But what else I would like to see is any small chance to hunt down such covert. I donÆt know how, maybe tons of ISKs spent for one time operation and special equipment, blob of special ships or whatever else. Lets the chance of success is still small, but at list something. So skilled pilots will be proud doing their real job and avoiding being spotted (changing safe spots, moving, tricking etc.), instead of just clicking on the magic covert cloak button and filing 100% safe . At list it will be some interesting action instead of just watching.
Reem Fairchild Minmatar Military Industrial Research	Posted - 2007.11.12 13:38:00 - [26] Originally by: MNU While the rest of the system will have to watch their backs 23/7 because they have no way to know if IÆm AFK or not at the moment. IMHO this is not something reasonable for the gameplay expirience. So, make it so people don't show up in local unless they write something in it. Problem fixed.
SoftRevolution	Posted - 2007.11.12 13:46:00 - [27] Originally by: Reem Fairchild Pretty much any and all problems (real or imagined) that people associate with cloaking are really problems with local and not with cloaks. Ratting Ravens, afk cloakers, whatever... It all goes away if you can't use local as a recon tool. /thread.
MNU	Posted - 2007.11.12 13:57:00 - [28] Originally by: Reem Fairchild So, make it so people don't show up in local unless they write something in it. Problem fixed. Problem fixed? OMG, why you do not test this fix itself out of high-sec and than let us know what were the results? Closing the eyes actually dose not make you invisible. ItÆs only working for small babies against bad creatures leaving under their beds.
Merdaneth Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.11.12 14:08:00 - [29] Originally by: Reem Fairchild Pretty much any and all problems (real or imagined) that people associate with cloaking are really problems with local and not with cloaks. Ratting Ravens, afk cloakers, whatever... It all goes away if you can't use local as a recon tool. I'm glad at least somebody here understands the core of the problem. Most others are just trying to find fixes for the syptoms. ____ The Illusion of Freedom \| The Truth about Slavery
Merdaneth Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.11.12 14:12:00 - [30] Edited by: Merdaneth on 12/11/2007 14:12:18 Originally by: MNU Problem fixed? OMG, why you do not test this fix itself out of high-sec and than let us know what were the results? Closing the eyes actually dose not make you invisible. ItÆs only working for small babies against bad creatures leaving under their beds. In fact, it does. Because AFK cloakers now threaten by doing exactly nothing. The threat exists only in your mind, take away local, and the threat is removed, and no AFK cloaker will ever be able to scare you again. Space in general will get more scary though, since you no longer have a perfect intelligence tool. Nor will cloaking ratters ever be able to frustrate you again, since you will never see them in local. ____ The Illusion of Freedom \| The Truth about Slavery
Big Zulu Minmatar Iron Eagles	Posted - 2007.11.12 14:42:00 - [31] easily claims second page _________ I has bree..
MNU	Posted - 2007.11.12 15:12:00 - [32] Originally by: Merdaneth Edited by: Merdaneth on 12/11/2007 14:12:18 Originally by: MNU Problem fixed? OMG, why you do not test this fix itself out of high-sec and than let us know what were the results? Closing the eyes actually dose not make you invisible. ItÆs only working for small babies against bad creatures leaving under their beds. In fact, it does. Because AFK cloakers now threaten by doing exactly nothing. The threat exists only in your mind, take away local, and the threat is removed, and no AFK cloaker will ever be able to scare you again. Space in general will get more scary though, since you no longer have a perfect intelligence tool. Nor will cloaking ratters ever be able to frustrate you again, since you will never see them in local. Who said ôscareö or ôfrustrateö? When you out of safety, you MUST watch your local all the time no mater if you are looking to be safe or looking to kill. And talking in the local chat is not good idea, so donÆt expect you enemyÆs showing themselves by the way of chatting in the local , unless its for cat-mouse game purposes. Also, this is about systems where peoples actually living. You need to underdress how many friends and enemies in the local and near systems for making the right decision. This is at list, but not all you need to do. If you will not be able to see enemies coming into you home system or neighbor system , soon this system will not be your. Unless you are intending to involve ppls camping all critical gates from both sides 23/7 and report with is still the options. Even, if you are rating in somebody system û local is what making you able to defend yourself. Watching local is one of the most important rules leaving out of the secure space. This is how it was designed. And if you are miner (believe me û IÆm not) in low-sec with is not looking to be suddenly ganged even if this system is occupied by your corp members û you must look at you scanner for probes while the enemy covert is here. Other way you may be surprised by couple of ships warping from neighbor system killing you and warping out before you will get a help. No mater what you are looking û to fight, to make some trap and gang invaders back or to run, you will have to look at you local if you really want to play smart. Or, to organize gate camps if you have resources with is not good idea out of 0.0 unless you are pirate. The problem here was 23/7 AFK cloaking, because AFK person donÆt need to do anything while you will do. What make you thinking about peoples scary by it? Scary and to be smart is not the same worlds.
Christari Zuborov Amarr Ore Mongers R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.11.12 15:19:00 - [33] Originally by: Reem Fairchild So, make it so people don't show up in local unless they write something in it. Problem fixed. Christari Zuborov endorses this idea. He gives it the big thumbs up!
Victor Hardenberg	Posted - 2007.11.12 15:26:00 - [34] Ok, some experience from my recent covert action: Day 1 I had to go into the enemy territory, not that easy to get there since the entry systems were strongly defended (camped). Once i got there, i had to go deeper into the enemies backyard, unfortunatley the next station is 6 Jumps out, so i sneaked there, docked, bought a cheap frig with resonable cargohold and slotlayout checked people in local to get a vague impression about the guys living here. Log off. Day 2 Login at station, checking local, reading map. The main area which the customer wants intel about is a ring of several Systems, accessible only via a 2nd chokepoint - this system is nearly permacamped. Fitting cheap frig with cargoexpanders and prototype cloak, load cargo stuffed with probes and some cap charges. Getting into target area, make safespot, anchor secure containers for future supply. Get back to station, change ship, going back to target area, getting into empty system, staying cloaked a while at safespot. Logging off. Day 3 Logging in - drawing girlfriend-agro, logging off. Day 4 Logging in, reading map and local (seems to be a hit at their prime-time) undocking, roaming the area to get a picture. Entering the camped system from the backdoor, switching different spots, aporaching Gatecamp (cloaked) at comfortable distance, watching the show, writing down names, shiptypes, corps and allies, acuiring a bit of infos about involved parties (doing this for about 4 hours). During this ops, as they seem to have something like a "rotating shift system" they also change tactics, so i had to change my positon frequently (got nearly decloaked 2 times - yes iam new to that business). Going back to "silent system", wait and log off. Logging in, same procedure as day 4. About 2h this time. back to ss and log. Wait a few hours, loging in and start probing for POS¦es. The cargo containers i¦ve anchored recently are now becoming very handy. Day 5 Scannig several systems and writing down POS positions and and setups, watching traffic as well, writing down names, shiptypes... jettsion remaining probes, destroying can, unanchoring containers, logging. Logging in at some obscure time, passing through the camp, getting back to station, trashing cheap frig, getting rest of stuff, heading home. Preparing all intel infos, hand them over to the customer and getting the remaining money for that contract. So, as you can imagine it was far from afk cloaking. the whole job took about 12 hours over a period of of 4 days. Payment was ok, ive enjoyed every minute of this, and - the most valuable Tool ? Local, and a good portion of patience. I would say local did 70 % of the job for me, the rest was pure dilligence. I can live with local being nerfed, since i annoy the hot blooded "iam a combat pilot only, and want to shoot stuff" pilots with my patience and frustrate them. And...I personally would enjoy scanning from the shadows, and being able to aproch targets on scanner stealthy even more But really, nerfing the cloaks will not the Problem. Provide some kind of scanner Radar (ive seen some old pictures from eve, did this thing worked ??) But i can imaging that such thing won¦t reduce lag.....
SiJira	Posted - 2007.11.12 15:35:00 - [35] Originally by: Polcor Rodal God, i miss the times, when people were thinking BEFORE they were posting at the forums. there never was such a time where the majority have done this stop posting garbage ____ __ ________ _sig below_ devs and gms cant modify my sig if they tried! _lies above_ CCP Morpheus was here Morpheus Fails. You need colors!! -Kaemonn [yellow]Kaem
MNU	Posted - 2007.11.12 15:40:00 - [36] Forgot to mention something: Not sure if you aware that normal covert also equipping with scan probes with it will use to bring somebody else straight on you head. DonÆt expect covert to fight itself, unless itÆs a single pirate or some small group of peoples or you are easy target with can be killed before you can call for help. This is what for covert usually sitting here and pilots who flying coverts know where they are better and they are absolutely right. So if you will ignore the presence of covert in the local and will threaten it as by doing exactly nothing - you will lose by the end, unless you are not leaving the dock. DonÆt care about the local and donÆt know that how many enemiesÆ ships entered into you systems somewhere because of not watching local? No clue how many of them waiting to jump into you system or logged off and waiting to be called? Than, what you are going to do if you will see your corp mate calling for help by being attacked by 1 enemy ship in a belt if you donÆt know how many of them is just waiting for you to do it while you have no clue how many mates you need to bring in? Local is you friend! Also coverts pilot are not sitting AFK 23/7 and they will do what they need and only when they need, so better do not consider covert being AFK even its actually AFK most of the time.
SiJira	Posted - 2007.11.12 15:46:00 - [37] Originally by: MNU Forgot to mention something: Not sure if you aware that normal covert also equipping with scan probes with it will use to bring somebody else straight on you head. DonÆt expect covert to fight itself, unless itÆs a single pirate or some small group of peoples or you are easy target with can be killed before you can call for help. This is what for covert usually sitting here and pilots who flying coverts know where they are better and they are absolutely right. So if you will ignore the presence of covert in the local and will threaten it as by doing exactly nothing - you will lose by the end, unless you are not leaving the dock. DonÆt care about the local and donÆt know that how many enemiesÆ ships entered into you systems somewhere because of not watching local? No clue how many of them waiting to jump into you system or logged off and waiting to be called? Than, what you are going to do if you will see your corp mate calling for help by being attacked by 1 enemy ship in a belt if you donÆt know how many of them is just waiting for you to do it while you have no clue how many mates you need to bring in? Local is you friend! Also coverts pilot are not sitting AFK 23/7 and they will do what they need and only when they need, so better do not consider covert being AFK even its actually AFK most of the time. cliff notes? ____ __ ________ _sig below_ devs and gms cant modify my sig if they tried! _lies above_ CCP Morpheus was here Morpheus Fails. You need colors!! -Kaemonn [yellow]Kaem
Call'Da Poleece	Posted - 2007.11.12 15:52:00 - [38] Originally by: Merdaneth Originally by: Reem Fairchild Pretty much any and all problems (real or imagined) that people associate with cloaking are really problems with local and not with cloaks. Ratting Ravens, afk cloakers, whatever... It all goes away if you can't use local as a recon tool. I'm glad at least somebody here understands the core of the problem. Most others are just trying to find fixes for the syptoms. WTF? people being able to sit 100% safe afk in a hostile system is a symptom and local is the problem? And by the way .... it does not go away if you have no local. Not seeing != Not there (except if you are 3 months old). As usual the lame campers are all over this trying to stop cloaks getting nerfed and at the same time getting local nerfed so they can sit in a pipe somewhere with a large bubble
Ares Lightfeather Gallente	Posted - 2007.11.12 15:57:00 - [39] Edited by: Ares Lightfeather on 12/11/2007 15:57:46 Quote: And by the way .... it does not go away if you have no local. Not seeing != Not there (except if you are 3 months old). Wrong and right... No local : you can warp cloaked near it with an inty, surprise it, and maintain it in place until your DPS dealers arrives and blow it up. There is no point in hiding if people know where you are. True, people could still logoff or stay afk hidden in the middle of nowhere, but at least risk-less ratting with cloaking at the first sign of danger would be gone from the game. Removing local would solve a lot of problems associated with cloaking. -- Siggie ! Come back here ! -- Originally by: Victor Valka Originally by: MotherMoon well a drone UI is a bit of an artist job Drone AI is obviously done by an artist too. One that is heavily into abstract
Reem Fairchild Minmatar Military Industrial Research	Posted - 2007.11.12 16:02:00 - [40] Originally by: MNU Originally by: Reem Fairchild So, make it so people don't show up in local unless they write something in it. Problem fixed. Problem fixed? OMG, why you do not test this fix itself out of high-sec and than let us know what were the results? Closing the eyes actually dose not make you invisible. ItÆs only working for small babies against bad creatures leaving under their beds. Supposedly your problem is that he is able to terrorize you while being afk: Quote: While the rest of the system will have to watch their backs 23/7 because they have no way to know if IÆm AFK or not at the moment. IMHO this is not something reasonable for the gameplay expirience. Take away local and he can't terrorize you while being afk. This way he can only do it when he is at the computer. Your problem is that you want to have your cake and eat it too. You want to have your super recon tool that automatically lets you know who is in system with you at all times, but you don't want what that brings.
Hugh Ruka Caldari Exploratio et Industria Morispatia	Posted - 2007.11.12 16:02:00 - [41] Originally by: Call'Da Poleece Originally by: Merdaneth Originally by: Reem Fairchild Pretty much any and all problems (real or imagined) that people associate with cloaking are really problems with local and not with cloaks. Ratting Ravens, afk cloakers, whatever... It all goes away if you can't use local as a recon tool. I'm glad at least somebody here understands the core of the problem. Most others are just trying to find fixes for the syptoms. WTF? people being able to sit 100% safe afk in a hostile system is a symptom and local is the problem? And by the way .... it does not go away if you have no local. Not seeing != Not there (except if you are 3 months old). As usual the lame campers are all over this trying to stop cloaks getting nerfed and at the same time getting local nerfed so they can sit in a pipe somewhere with a large bubble 1. somebody sitting cloaked and afk in a system. now: you are nervous, without local: everybody is fine 2. covops scouting the system. now: you are nervous, without local: everybody is fine 3. non-cloaked hostiles in system. now - you are nervous, without local everybody has to use scanner to find a target so everybody is on the same conditions 4. cloaking ratter in system. now: you enter local, he warps and cloaks, without local: you enter system, if he scans he warps and cloaks, if not, you find him and kill him. with a covops he has no chance of escaping as he does not see the cloaker on scanner. removing local solves all problems with cloaks. without local, everybody has to work the same to get the same intel (use scanner or probes). just covopses get advatnages :-) Originally by: Aravel Thon Originally by: Nith Batoxxx Hi my alt just leanred to fly the ferox............... I am so so terribly sorry...
MNU	Posted - 2007.11.12 16:10:00 - [42] Originally by: Victor Hardenberg Ok, some experience from my recent covert action: Sorry, I snip the quote to make the response short. This is the real good job. And this is what for it was designed. And we need coverts to do this job. No cense of AFK here. ItÆs not seems you was watching TV, running missions with you alt and looking on the chat or teamspeak to know when you corp or alliance will ask you to report about the situation or find some targets while you ship was AFK in the open space. Want to add my quoter here: IMHO û AFK should be never 100% safe no mater what peoples flying, mining, couriering or spying (unless they are docked on NPC station), so why cloaking does make it posible? Why peoples should to be able to be completely 100% safe while flying AFK and donÆt need to think about the ship being safe just because it was left under the covert cloak. BTW: I never was successful to do it, but heard couple of times that it still possible to scan a ship covered by non-covert cloak even if the chance itself is very low. Do any1 have any information on it?
SiJira	Posted - 2007.11.12 16:18:00 - [43] fail a cloak makes you dissapear and that is its design and many limitations have been imposed on it go away failed newbs ____ __ ________ _sig below_ devs and gms cant modify my sig if they tried! _lies above_ CCP Morpheus was here Morpheus Fails. You need colors!! -Kaemonn [yellow]Kaem
Reem Fairchild Minmatar Military Industrial Research	Posted - 2007.11.12 16:19:00 - [44] Originally by: Call'Da Poleece WTF? people being able to sit 100% safe afk in a hostile system is a symptom and local is the problem? Please tell me how a cloaked pilot that is afk in a system is any kind of a problem (assuming he is afk) if you have no way of knowing he is there? If he IS afk, he can't hurt you. He's not there. The only he can have any impact at the moment while being afk is through his presence in the local chat channel. If he doesn't show in the chat channel, then him sitting afk in your system is like him being logged off there. Either the problem is that he is able to have an effect on you while being afk, or the problem is that you want absolute safety while being in 0.0/low-sec. If it's the former, then this is the obvious solution. If it's the latter, then you shouldn't be in 0.0 or low-sec.
Call'Da Poleece	Posted - 2007.11.12 16:23:00 - [45] Hey sure .... sitting mining or ratting clicking on scanner every 2 seconds is a surefire way to increase numbers of users. How about we just get CCP to make all of EVE 0.0 while we are at it? EVE is harsh right? Everybody is bound to love it, look out WOW, CCP is going to take all your customers!! Removing local will nerf farmers ... once. They will then mine/run missions in empire, ALL of them, they arent stupid. On the other hand, removing local will buff lame ass pirates. Yeah, call it hit and run and dress it up to be a fantastic new type of gameplay ... but really its all down to risk averse pierats popping miners and industrials and running a mile when a few combat ships turn up for a scrap... The only way I'd go for a local nerf is if it was limited to 10 jumps into nulsec and further out into the depths of 0.0. Lame ass pierats could go there and be all ninja and stuff .. there will be nasty hostile gatecamps and ready and willing pvpers to shoot at ....which we all know is NOT what the people who are calling for a local nerf actually want.
Reem Fairchild Minmatar Military Industrial Research	Posted - 2007.11.12 16:26:00 - [46] Originally by: MNU IMHO û AFK should be never 100% safe no mater what peoples flying, mining, couriering or spying (unless they are docked on NPC station), so why cloaking does make it posible? If he is afk, he's not spying. He is doing absolutely nothing, cause he's not there. A cloaked ship in a safe spot that doesn't show in local and where the pilot is afk is pretty much the same as a pilot that has logged off.
Ares Lightfeather Gallente	Posted - 2007.11.12 16:27:00 - [47] Well, if someone's afk, hidden (safespot) and has no way of knowing I'm there, a cloaked ship isn't a problem. Well, if someone's afk, hidden (safespot) and knows how many of us there is, plus I know he's here watching, I've got a problem : he's taking intel from me and there is nothing I can do to prevent him. Changing cloak could work, but it'll probably have bad side-effects, changing local to 'you appear when talking' will work, and there is no major side effects associated with it. -- Siggie ! Come back here ! -- Originally by: Victor Valka Originally by: MotherMoon well a drone UI is a bit of an artist job Drone AI is obviously done by an artist too. One that is heavily into abstract
RuleoftheBone Minmatar Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2007.11.12 16:30:00 - [48] Only display local total count-not the pilot names. So local ticks up...check scanner. Or run and hide. Or cloak. Or whatever. Sorted. Oh...remove POS's from the game too thus solving some lag issues, boring gameplay issues, and preventing the dreaded AFK/smack from POS huggers. Just throwing it out there . "Lead Me..Follow Me..Or get the **** out of my way" General George Patton USA
Lugaid Laga	Posted - 2007.11.12 16:30:00 - [49] Originally by: Reem Fairchild Originally by: MNU IMHO û AFK should be never 100% safe no mater what peoples flying, mining, couriering or spying (unless they are docked on NPC station), so why cloaking does make it posible? If he is afk, he's not spying. He is doing absolutely nothing, cause he's not there. A cloaked ship in a safe spot that doesn't show in local and where the pilot is afk is pretty much the same as a pilot that has logged off. You know what, how about we make people with -0.1 sec status and below have no local channel ....voila, now you have to scan for people and pop them just like you want, it'll be really good fun... seriously
Lugaid Laga	Posted - 2007.11.12 16:34:00 - [50] Originally by: RuleoftheBone Only display local total count-not the pilot names. So local ticks up...check scanner. Or run and hide. Or cloak. Or whatever. Sorted. Oh...remove POS's from the game too thus solving some lag issues, boring gameplay issues, and preventing the dreaded AFK/smack from POS huggers. Just throwing it out there . Also a good idea. And yes, remove all POS's from game and base soverignty on the number of players from an alliance in a system, averaged over a week (/me remembers the bad old days of station ping pong) ... maybe give a staion 50 times more shields, so you have something to do with all those dreads
Reem Fairchild Minmatar Military Industrial Research	Posted - 2007.11.12 16:42:00 - [51] Edited by: Reem Fairchild on 12/11/2007 16:43:29 Originally by: Lugaid Laga You know what, how about we make people with -0.1 sec status and below have no local channel ....voila, now you have to scan for people and pop them just like you want, it'll be really good fun... seriously 1. You do realize that there is no sec status hit for anything in 0.0? 2. How exactly does this relate in any way to the issue at hand, which is how one lone guy sitting cloaked, supposedly afk, in a system is able to terrorize all of its poor inhabitants without even being at the computer? 3. You're not all that bright, are you?
MNU	Posted - 2007.11.12 16:51:00 - [52] Originally by: Reem Fairchild Originally by: MNU Originally by: Reem Fairchild So, make it so people don't show up in local unless they write something in it. Problem fixed. Problem fixed? OMG, why you do not test this fix itself out of high-sec and than let us know what were the results? Closing the eyes actually dose not make you invisible. ItÆs only working for small babies against bad creatures leaving under their beds. Supposedly your problem is that he is able to terrorize you while being afk: Quote: While the rest of the system will have to watch their backs 23/7 because they have no way to know if IÆm AFK or not at the moment. IMHO this is not something reasonable for the gameplay expirience. Take away local and he can't terrorize you while being afk. This way he can only do it when he is at the computer. Your problem is that you want to have your cake and eat it too. You want to have your super recon tool that automatically lets you know who is in system with you at all times, but you don't want what that brings. You still fail to see difference between corp wars, blob fighting strategy, killing POSes and capitals, and just some pirate hunting for other hunters. In the second case I will ignore him and even will try to pretend easy target û just to be able to trap and kill him. Or if he will keep just sitting for days in the hope to ôterrorizeö me, our gang will start hunting for the corp or alliance with this pilot belong. Including killing POSs and hunting for their capitals, just because there is no other way to push this pilot out of our system. So who is "terrorized" whom than? What are you talking about is own feeling and do not put your filing into my mouth. Speak about yourself please. I donÆt like AFK peoples pushing other to work, and this is the whole point. I do like when both sides are working to get what they are looking for. About the second point: LetÆs disable local at all. Than why do not bring the blob of capitals with necessary support straight after DT when there no duties on gates yet (or how else you going to know about this blob)? Do it in couple of days, that everybody will log in and kill everything around. Is it what you are looking for? Or you were thinking I keep using terms corporate, wars, blobs just for soloing in belts? Now tell me, how you going to control you own border system without having the local and how you going to guard it. This is you idea, now you will have to design new appropriate strategy. Please don't forget about POSes.
Lugaid Laga	Posted - 2007.11.12 16:52:00 - [53] Originally by: Reem Fairchild Edited by: Reem Fairchild on 12/11/2007 16:42:12 Originally by: Lugaid Laga You know what, how about we make people with -0.1 sec status and below have no local channel ....voila, now you have to scan for people and pop them just like you want, it'll be really good fun... seriously You do realize that there is no sec status hit for anything in 0.0? And how exactly does this relate in any way to the issue at hand, which is how one lone guy sitting cloaked, supposedly afk, in a system is able to terrorize all of its poor inhabitants without even being at the computer? The vast majority of people looking for a local nerf are low sec granny bashing handbag snatchers If someone is AFK and 100% safe in an hostile environment then isnt that player going against the entire ethos of EVE? Its like parking your car and leaving it there in a bad part of town and it will still be there when you come back? Like Mr Rule said above you, remove names from local, just give numbers of people in local, have the names show up in constellation or something , and at the same time make a mechanism where you have to interact with your cloak to make it keep you cloaked (using racial isotopes or something) ... like you said yourself, if you are afk you might as well be logged out
Lugaid Laga	Posted - 2007.11.12 16:54:00 - [54] Originally by: Reem Fairchild blah blah 3. You're not all that bright, are you? Whey hey, the smacking always comes out when the dumb ass reasoning is shown to be what it is.
MNU	Posted - 2007.11.12 17:03:00 - [55] Originally by: Lugaid Laga Originally by: Reem Fairchild Originally by: MNU IMHO û AFK should be never 100% safe no mater what peoples flying, mining, couriering or spying (unless they are docked on NPC station), so why cloaking does make it posible? If he is afk, he's not spying. He is doing absolutely nothing, cause he's not there. A cloaked ship in a safe spot that doesn't show in local and where the pilot is afk is pretty much the same as a pilot that has logged off. You know what, how about we make people with -0.1 sec status and below have no local channel ....voila, now you have to scan for people and pop them just like you want, it'll be really good fun... seriously That will not work because this will only nerf pirates but have nothing to do with wars. Without pirates it will be boring game. Most of the related to AFK issues are in 0.0.space or in constant wars between low-sec aliases. Not everybody who is living and killing in low-secs are pirates. There are plenty of alliances living in low-sec, having HQ and POSes and fighting each others when most of their members have positive sec status. Cloaked pirate represent only small part of AFK cases and most of the pirates having fan by killing, so they are AFKing rarely.
SiJira	Posted - 2007.11.12 17:07:00 - [56] Originally by: Reem Fairchild Edited by: Reem Fairchild on 12/11/2007 16:43:29 Originally by: Lugaid Laga You know what, how about we make people with -0.1 sec status and below have no local channel ....voila, now you have to scan for people and pop them just like you want, it'll be really good fun... seriously 1. You do realize that there is no sec status hit for anything in 0.0? 2. How exactly does this relate in any way to the issue at hand, which is how one lone guy sitting cloaked, supposedly afk, in a system is able to terrorize all of its poor inhabitants without even being at the computer? 3. You're not all that bright, are you? maybe you arent all that bright? if he is afk the only damage done is by the trembling carebears themselves please go play hello kitty online ____ __ ________ _sig below_ devs and gms cant modify my sig if they tried! _lies above_ CCP Morpheus was here Morpheus Fails. You need colors!! -Kaemonn [yellow]Kaem
Reem Fairchild Minmatar Military Industrial Research	Posted - 2007.11.12 17:08:00 - [57] Edited by: Reem Fairchild on 12/11/2007 17:12:19 Originally by: MNU I donÆt like AFK peoples pushing other to work, and this is the whole point. Right, but if he is afk and not showing in local, then he is not doing that, now is he? As far as you're concerned it the exact same as him being logged off. Quote: About the second point: LetÆs disable local at all. Than why do not bring the blob of capitals with necessary support straight after DT when there no duties on gates yet Capitals can't use gates. They can only jump to cyno fields. And as soon as a cyno goes up, everyone in system knows about it and is able to warp straight to it. Quote: (or how else you going to know about this blob)? Do it in couple of days, that everybody will log in and kill everything around. Is it what you are looking for? Or you were thinking I keep using terms corporate, wars, blobs just for soloing in belts? From your comments it seems you've never been involved in POS warfare. Even if they could get in capitals in the way you're talking about, the only real damage something like that would be able to do (while having an element of surprise) is shooting station services (which is already possible to do in a semi-covert kind of way, as Freege proved) and putting POS's into reinforced mode. They wouldn't be able to kill a POS unless it didn't have any strontium, cause when the POS's come out of reinforced, the defenders will be ready. Quote: Now tell me, how you going to control you own border system without having the local and how you going to guard it. This is you idea, now you will have to design new appropriate strategy. Please don't forget about POSes. The same exact way it is done now. The only difference is that 0.0 carebears won't be able to mine and rat carelessly as if it was high sec. They'll have to defend their operations.
Needa3 Minmatar Templars of Space Terra Incognita.	Posted - 2007.11.12 17:11:00 - [58] Edited by: Needa3 on 12/11/2007 17:13:17 instead of nerfing things around; CCP should introduce things to counteract certain mods/ set ups nerfing = negative stimuli to play the game adding countermeasures = positive stimuli to play the game
Reem Fairchild Minmatar Military Industrial Research	Posted - 2007.11.12 17:12:00 - [59] Originally by: SiJira Originally by: Reem Fairchild Edited by: Reem Fairchild on 12/11/2007 16:43:29 Originally by: Lugaid Laga You know what, how about we make people with -0.1 sec status and below have no local channel ....voila, now you have to scan for people and pop them just like you want, it'll be really good fun... seriously 1. You do realize that there is no sec status hit for anything in 0.0? 2. How exactly does this relate in any way to the issue at hand, which is how one lone guy sitting cloaked, supposedly afk, in a system is able to terrorize all of its poor inhabitants without even being at the computer? 3. You're not all that bright, are you? maybe you arent all that bright? if he is afk the only damage done is by the trembling carebears themselves please go play hello kitty online I made an embarrasing mistake myself earlier today while posting, so I'll be easy on you, but just to point out that you have misunderstood my post.
Tortun Nahme Minmatar Heimatar Services Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.11.12 17:16:00 - [60] another fail thread of failingness 1: this is not the features and suggestions portion of the forum 2: cloaking is working as intended, adapt or die 3: afraid of a face in local, delicious Originally by: Surfin's PlunderBunny Edited by: Surfin''s PlunderBunny on 04/11/2007 21:34:44 EDIT You know what, Tortun has this one under control...* *Basks in the chaos of this thread
SiJira	Posted - 2007.11.12 17:16:00 - [61] Originally by: Reem Fairchild I made an embarrasing mistake myself earlier today while posting, so I'll be easy on you, but just to point out that you have misunderstood my post. then explain how anyone but the fearful newbs is causing any damage if the cloaker is afk? explain why anyone would do anything in 0.0 without any pvp capabilities - against a single target - within their group? ____ __ ________ _sig below_ devs and gms cant modify my sig if they tried! _lies above_ CCP Morpheus was here Morpheus Fails. You need colors!! -Kaemonn [yellow]Kaem
SiJira	Posted - 2007.11.12 17:17:00 - [62] Originally by: Needa3 Edited by: Needa3 on 12/11/2007 17:13:17 instead of nerfing things around; CCP should introduce things to counteract certain mods/ set ups nerfing = negative stimuli to play the game adding countermeasures = positive stimuli to play the game cloak - no change necessary ____ __ ________ _sig below_ devs and gms cant modify my sig if they tried! _lies above_ CCP Morpheus was here Morpheus Fails. You need colors!! -Kaemonn [yellow]Kaem
Lugaid Laga	Posted - 2007.11.12 17:18:00 - [63] Originally by: SiJira blah blah usual Look at me I'm hard and I like to derail threads blah please go play hello kitty online Yay, first mention of hello kitty (beat you to mentioning wow) .. just to show that I am also an internet hard person I shall now mention "can I have ur stuffs" If he is cloaked and afk he should be logged, the effect (for the akfer) is exactly the same ... whats wrong with that? So how about CCP implement a script that kicks people after 10 minutes who have done nothing in the game but are cloaked... yay everyone happy
SiJira	Posted - 2007.11.12 17:19:00 - [64] Originally by: Lugaid Laga Originally by: SiJira blah blah usual Look at me I'm hard and I like to derail threads blah please go play hello kitty online Yay, first mention of hello kitty (beat you to mentioning wow) .. just to show that I am also an internet hard person I shall now mention "can I have ur stuffs" If he is cloaked and afk he should be logged, the effect (for the akfer) is exactly the same ... whats wrong with that? So how about CCP implement a script that kicks people after 10 minutes who have done nothing in the game but are cloaked... yay everyone happy i dont want anyones stuff and ill give you 50 million isk if you can find me saying exactly that line ____ __ ________ _sig below_ devs and gms cant modify my sig if they tried! _lies above_ CCP Morpheus was here Morpheus Fails. You need colors!! -Kaemonn [yellow]Kaem
Reem Fairchild Minmatar Military Industrial Research	Posted - 2007.11.12 17:24:00 - [65] Originally by: SiJira then explain how anyone but the fearful newbs is causing any damage if the cloaker is afk? Well, I have only spent the entire thread so far explaining why someone who is cloaked and afk is not any kind of a problem as long as he doesn't show in local.
Lugaid Laga	Posted - 2007.11.12 17:25:00 - [66] Quote: As far as you're concerned it the exact same as him being logged off. Quote: same as him being logged off. Quote: logged off. There we go, even Reem Fairchild wants afk cloakers to be automatically logged off /words in mouth
SiJira	Posted - 2007.11.12 17:31:00 - [67] Originally by: Reem Fairchild Originally by: SiJira then explain how anyone but the fearful newbs is causing any damage if the cloaker is afk? Well, I have only spent the entire thread so far explaining why someone who is cloaked and afk is not any kind of a problem as long as he doesn't show in local. yeah i got a thread for that the last post seemed to claim the opposite ____ __ ________ _sig below_ devs and gms cant modify my sig if they tried! _lies above_ CCP Morpheus was here Morpheus Fails. You need colors!! -Kaemonn [yellow]Kaem
Liam Liam	Posted - 2007.11.12 17:42:00 - [68] Systems with sov 3 or over should be allowed to scan out cloaked ships from pos's. Ship still remains cloaked you just get the scan location so go uncloak him with enough people you might get him especially if he's afk.... anywhere else should stay as it is. Cloakers should be cloaked period but you should be able to do something about cloakers in your home systems.
Reem Fairchild Minmatar Military Industrial Research	Posted - 2007.11.12 17:44:00 - [69] Originally by: Lugaid Laga Quote: As far as you're concerned it the exact same as him being logged off. Quote: same as him being logged off. Quote: logged off. There we go, even Reem Fairchild wants afk cloakers to be automatically logged off /words in mouth Weak. You want to have your cake and eat it. Simple as that. If the problem is actually the pilot being afk, and not simply the pilot being cloaked and in system, then the solution is with local. Because that is the only part of the game mechanics that allows him to have any effect whatsoever on others while being cloaked and afk. But it seems the real problem people who complain about "afk cloaking" actually have is with cloaked ships that are NOT afk.
Lugaid Laga	Posted - 2007.11.12 17:49:00 - [70] Originally by: SiJira Originally by: Reem Fairchild Originally by: SiJira then explain how anyone but the fearful newbs is causing any damage if the cloaker is afk? Well, I have only spent the entire thread so far explaining why someone who is cloaked and afk is not any kind of a problem as long as he doesn't show in local. yeah i got a thread for that the last post seemed to claim the opposite awww, all friends again? good ... now run along children and let us hear no more about this again BTW you guys getting back to the frothing at the mouth nerf local and dont nerf cloaks thing again? Personally, I think it would clarify everyones position with a high degree of accuracy if they stated (without self serving lies) where they have been in the last month ... so for me it would be: 0.0 = 0% 0.0 (afk cloaked) = 0% Low Sec = 25 - 35% Empire = 65 - 75%
Turin Caldari Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.11.12 17:51:00 - [71] no need to fix what isnt broken. AKA local or cloaks. _________________________________
Liam Liam	Posted - 2007.11.12 17:55:00 - [72] 0.0 90% Empire 10% low sec 0%
Lugaid Laga	Posted - 2007.11.12 18:00:00 - [73] Edited by: Lugaid Laga on 12/11/2007 18:04:34 Originally by: Reem Fairchild But it seems the real problem people who complain about "afk cloaking" actually have is with cloaked ships that are NOT afk. Aha .. the nub of the matter <you>I am afk, how can I hurt you in your badger? <me>OK great ... <you>maniacal laugh F1 - FX (had F8, but that would be impossible :P) <me>WTF? you told me you were afk!! ....it was a trap!! <you>lol cloaked and there = fine, cloaked and afk = crapness, cloaked and afk and coming back after 10 hours and popping a noob in a industrial and then going afk again for another 10 hours = one messed up mechanic that HUGELY favours one over another
MNU	Posted - 2007.11.12 18:02:00 - [74] I believe the truth of some peoples arguing that AFK is like logoff, so no needs to force logoff - is that such peoples are actually often used to place an alts with AFK covert in a hostile system for purpose of having invisible spy immediately available when it will be needed. Seems such peoples understand and afraid that some of them will die immediately upon login back. It will be enough time and good chance for well trained gang to probe such covert upon showing in local before the pilot will have the greed fully loaded and will be able to switch on the cloak. Of course they will not dock, because then they will die upon undock. Warping in the system every time when the spy needed here? No way, itÆs sooo dangerous. Sure who need to be skilled if there safe way to do the same job. Or it actually just willing to play with second account while AFK?
Dr Slaughter Rabies Inc.	Posted - 2007.11.12 18:02:00 - [75] posting in yet another when is a cloak not a cloak thread. Let's call it a jumper or cardigan then as it so obviously wouldn't be a cloak anymore. If you really must change something with them; make them start using cap after a period of time, have the cap usage increase over time, if you've de-cloaked after the cap usage period has started increase the length of time before you can re-cloak by the period you've been using cap to sustain the cloak. but that's a whole lot of pain for the programmers when, basically, cloaks aren't that broken and there are plenty of things that are way more busted up... CCP this is not the nerf you are looking for...
Jones Maloy Minmatar Unified Naval Command	Posted - 2007.11.12 18:03:00 - [76] 0.0 = 0% 0.0 afk cloaked = 0% low-sec = 0% high-sec = 100% Why? I will die if I go into low-sec and the rewards there are not enough to buy me a new ship everytime I die. Stab nerf unbalanced the entire risk:reward ratio. though as soon as i can use a cloak i might go back. --- Originally by: Goumindong Amarr ships ought to be, by the Amarran design philosophy, little more than armor plated nuclear reactors with lasers sticking out of the sides and rockets on the back
MNU	Posted - 2007.11.12 18:26:00 - [77] Edited by: MNU on 12/11/2007 18:26:51 For last couple of month: 0.0: ~5 % low sec : ~95% low-sec AFK cloaked: û full 2 days with one of my alts for purposes of pure spying on enemies fleet during one of non-stop conflicts, while my main was enjoying the game. In whole 2 days was looking at my AFK covert only about 2 hours to report about enemy gang gathering or drop some probes and target my gang on unguarded miners or other easy targets when the enemies where jumping into opposite system. Found it broken, boring and laming. Empire: less than 1% (only if I need something with canÆt be purchased where IÆm) Not a pirate, but there are plenty of wars to enjoy as well as fighting pirates. They making it even more chalenging and interesting
Stuart Price Caldari Havoc Inc	Posted - 2007.11.12 19:11:00 - [78] On a side note I'd like to see bombers able to use the covops cloak. Make cloaks scannable but with low accuracy (say 20km or so is the closest warp in distance you can scan to) so that once you've warped into the vicinity you still have to find the ship and decloak it before it leaves. Sensible cloakers will leave when they see ships appearing on the grid, afk cloakers will eventually be uncloaked and popped. "I got soul but I'm not a soldier"
RuleoftheBone Minmatar Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2007.11.12 20:07:00 - [79] Actually the more I think about it a simple local counter (no faces/names) would work rather nicely.....and reduce the amount of chat windows "Lead Me..Follow Me..Or get the **** out of my way" General George Patton USA
ViolenTUK Gallente Vindicated Exiles 101010 Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.12 21:31:00 - [80] There isnÆt a problem with cloaking at all. Every so often you will have one guy pop on the forums who cant get to grips with what is an intrinsic aspect of the game and posts on the forums. This is pointless. There is no justifiable reason for cloaks to be nerfed in anyway given on this thread. No one has given a single reason why cloaking devices are causing any problems at all. I only hear the whining of players that find a legitimately cloaked ship frustrating despite the fact they arenÆt really casing them any concern. If a raven wants to rat in a system and cloak when a pirate pops in the system then thatÆs fine. This should turn your attention to the fact that local in 0.0 systems is quite plainly at fault. Pirates should not get THEIR way to risk free pirating by nerfing cloaking devices. If you have a problem with the game mechanics at the moment then please nerf local in 0.0 systems. www.eve-players.com
Dapper Danny Minmatar	Posted - 2007.11.12 21:44:00 - [81] Originally by: Victor Hardenberg Ok, some experience from my recent covert action: You sir are what Im aspiring to be...
Rocka Stargirl	Posted - 2007.11.12 21:49:00 - [82] Originally by: PiKacho idiot --- We do what we must, because we can.
SiJira	Posted - 2007.11.12 22:13:00 - [83] Originally by: ViolenTUK There isnÆt a problem with cloaking at all. Every so often you will have one guy pop on the forums who cant get to grips with what is an intrinsic aspect of the game and posts on the forums. This is pointless. There is no justifiable reason for cloaks to be nerfed in anyway given on this thread. No one has given a single reason why cloaking devices are causing any problems at all. I only hear the whining of players that find a legitimately cloaked ship frustrating despite the fact they arenÆt really casing them any concern. If a raven wants to rat in a system and cloak when a pirate pops in the system then thatÆs fine. This should turn your attention to the fact that local in 0.0 systems is quite plainly at fault. Pirates should not get THEIR way to risk free pirating by nerfing cloaking devices. If you have a problem with the game mechanics at the moment then please nerf local in 0.0 systems. you deserve the badge of honesty ____ __ ________ _sig below_ devs and gms cant modify my sig if they tried! _lies above_ CCP Morpheus was here Morpheus Fails. You need colors!! -Kaemonn [yellow]Kaem
Hamfast Gallente	Posted - 2007.11.12 23:01:00 - [84] I want to add a bit to Reem Fairchild's idea on local... If we look at Local as a system generated data feed... In High Sec Space, these systems are well maintained, all ships are displayed in Local space... In Low Sec Space, these systems have started to break down, a pilot will be reflected in local for 10 minutes plus an additional variable amount of time due to actions taken... talk in local, warp, shoot, target, move, jump and so on... In 0.0 space the system is maintained by the owner of the system, no owner, no local... or a limited local (show entry into the system for a few minutes and local chat)... POS and Station Modules can be added that shore up and extend the local information, but that local information will be open to everyone in the system... it can be further decided if these local systems will be as good as high sec space, or limited as the low sec versions are... I also want to agree with Reem on the view of Cloaks, they are not broken, they work like they shouldà there are enough limits placed on non-covert ops Cloaked ships that they are already nerfed enough. --------*****-------- It takes 43 muscles to frown and 17 to smile, but it doesn't take any to just sit there with a dumb look on your face.

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