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shinsushi	Posted - 2007.11.12 21:16:00 - [1] Edited by: shinsushi on 12/11/2007 21:25:52 Edited by: shinsushi on 12/11/2007 21:17:36 In order of damage (minnie/gallente ships have mid-tier and low-tier weapons and omen): Thorax (500+) Vexor (500+) Rupture (450+) Omen (360+) Moa (330+) Caracal (320+) Maller (290+) Stabber (260+) Fitting left as measured (armor tankers scewed towards PG, shield towards CPU) Vexor - 144/337.5 CPU & 380/843.75 PG Rupture - 231/406.25 CPU & 625.8/1075 PG Stabber - 171/375 CPU & 623.8/875 PG Moa - 219/450 CPU & 606.8/975 PG Omen - 214/312.5 CPU & 591.6/912.5 PG Thorax - 213.75/375 CPU & 714/1025 PG Caracal - 267.5/437.5 CPU & 569/662.5 PG Maller - 221.25/350 CPU & 1042.5/1125 PG Due to the lack of options in fitting our ships amarr are left with very few choices. No nano-fitting, no ewar fitting, tank or gank. These are the only things we can do so we would like to do them well. Only the maller is fitting top tier turrets, everything else is downsizing (omen too.) You don't wanna see the maller's DPS if it downsizes. In order of range @ 85% fall-offw/ shortrange weapons: Caracal Omen/maller Rupture/Stabber Moa Thorax/Vexor This is slightly deceptive, as the the omen (1), Moa (2), rupture (2) and the stabber (2) can fit 20km+ missiles in the spare slots(*). So, how lets look at effective weapons: Rupture - 8.6 Stabber - 7.25 Thorax - 6.25 Caracal - 6.25 Moa - 6 Omen - 5.33 Vexor - 5.25 Maller - 5 Next we will move onto available drones: Vexor - 75m3 Thorax - 50m3 Rupture - 30 m3 Omen - 15m3 Moa - 15m3 Caracal - 10m3 Stabber - 5m3 Maller - 0m3 Now effective HP and # of lows left in above config hitpoints: Maller - 9,399 3-lows Moa - 8,925 2-lows Thorax - 8,221 2-lows Rupture - 7,901 2-lows Omen - 7,054 2-lows Stabber - 6,667 2-lows Vexor - 6,807 2-lows Caracal - 6,481 0-lows And lastly speed and available mids: Stabber 367 m/s 3-mids Rupture 250 m/sec 3-mids omen 238 m/sec 3-mids Caracal 234 m/sec 5-mids Thorax 225 m/sec 3-mids Moa 219 m/sec 4-mids Maller 219 m/sec 3-mids Vexor 213m/sec 3-mids I think both amarrian vessels need a significant boost. Along with the Moa, and caracal gets a -5% rof to missiles instead of the kinetic bonus, give the moa and omen another turret w/ fitting, and change the maller's cap bonus to reflect the abaddon.
Arvald Caldari Tutela Of Obscurum	Posted - 2007.11.12 21:21:00 - [2] i like my omen and caracal just the way they are thank you --------------------------- Im in your forums derailing your threads
shinsushi	Posted - 2007.11.12 21:25:00 - [3] Edited by: shinsushi on 12/11/2007 21:25:13 Originally by: Arvald i like my omen and caracal just the way they are thank you Yeah, they really dominate the PvP field don't they?
Commander Thrawn Fluffy Rabbit Killers	Posted - 2007.11.12 21:26:00 - [4] no just make it so you can actually fit heavy pulse on the omen and maller with max out skills without requiring 1 - 2 RCU. job done
Commander Thrawn Fluffy Rabbit Killers	Posted - 2007.11.12 21:26:00 - [5] oh and in a Shinsushi whine thread
shinsushi	Posted - 2007.11.12 21:27:00 - [6] Edited by: shinsushi on 12/11/2007 21:28:03 Originally by: Commander Thrawn no just make it so you can actually fit heavy pulse on the omen and maller with max out skills without requiring 1 - 2 RCU. job done That won't fix anything, they will still have the damage of a wet paper bag, and the versatility of one too. Not to mention the smallest drone bays and the least effective turrets.
Blue Rider Thanos and Killjoy Productions Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2007.11.12 21:30:00 - [7] Originally by: Commander Thrawn oh and in a Shinsushi whine thread lol, I thought I was seeing a trend...
shinsushi	Posted - 2007.11.12 21:32:00 - [8] So instead of addressing and refuting my points, you guys are just going to troll? I guess that means I am right eh?
Arvald Caldari Tutela Of Obscurum	Posted - 2007.11.12 21:36:00 - [9] Originally by: shinsushi So instead of addressing and refuting my points, you guys are just going to troll? I guess that means I am right eh? and he calls us the trolls --------------------------- Im in your forums derailing your threads
shinsushi	Posted - 2007.11.12 21:38:00 - [10] Edited by: shinsushi on 12/11/2007 21:38:34 Originally by: Arvald Originally by: shinsushi So instead of addressing and refuting my points, you guys are just going to troll? I guess that means I am right eh? and he calls us the trolls If you have a valid point, that you can back up thru logic or numbers, I will listen, unfortunately all you can do is violate forums rules and avoid the issue.
Arvald Caldari Tutela Of Obscurum	Posted - 2007.11.12 21:40:00 - [11] Edited by: Arvald on 12/11/2007 21:40:42 Edited by: Arvald on 12/11/2007 21:40:24 Originally by: shinsushi Edited by: shinsushi on 12/11/2007 21:38:34 Originally by: Arvald Originally by: shinsushi So instead of addressing and refuting my points, you guys are just going to troll? I guess that means I am right eh? and he calls us the trolls If you have a valid point, that you can back up thru logic or numbers, I will listen, unfortunately all you can do is violate forums rules and avoid the issue. im not saying your numbers arnt valid, im saying your an EFT noob who probably cant even fly and fit a frigate properly. also enjoy this pic while you spew about your nonsence --------------------------- Im in your forums derailing your threads
Commander Thrawn Fluffy Rabbit Killers	Posted - 2007.11.12 21:41:00 - [12] Originally by: shinsushi Edited by: shinsushi on 12/11/2007 21:28:03 Originally by: Commander Thrawn no just make it so you can actually fit heavy pulse on the omen and maller with max out skills without requiring 1 - 2 RCU. job done That won't fix anything, they will still have the damage of a wet paper bag, and the versatility of one too. Not to mention the smallest drone bays and the least effective turrets. k go back to EFT, fit an omen with heavy pulse rather then focused med pulse. forget the tank for this exercise. put in 2 heatsinks and conflag. and come back with the DPS. Im sure it will be alot higher then you think. problem is that the only amarrian ships that can actually fit heavy pulse and some form of a tank are BC, and hacs. none of the tech1 cruisers can. oh and stop using EFT so much. try playing the game a bit
NoNah Unseen University	Posted - 2007.11.12 21:41:00 - [13] Originally by: Arvald Originally by: shinsushi So instead of addressing and refuting my points, you guys are just going to troll? I guess that means I am right eh? and he calls us the trolls I have a hard time accepting it, but in this thread, my god, shinsushi is the only one making any sense what so ever. I do hope you personally get a ban for that, then agian thats just wishful thinking. As for OP, you've posted alot of numbers with no back up, and no actual conclusion. Looking at those numbers(however oddly sorted and grouped(velocity and mids!?)) Caldari and Amarr both looks quite fine. Postcount: 588566
OOOSOOO Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2007.11.12 21:41:00 - [14] Originally by: shinsushi Edited by: shinsushi on 12/11/2007 21:25:52 Edited by: shinsushi on 12/11/2007 21:17:36 In order of damage (minnie/gallente ships have mid-tier and low-tier weapons and omen): Thorax (500+) Vexor (500+) Rupture (450+) Omen (360+) Moa (330+) Caracal (320+) Maller (290+) Stabber (260+) Fitting left as measured (armor tankers scewed towards PG, shield towards CPU) Vexor - 144/337.5 CPU & 380/843.75 PG Rupture - 231/406.25 CPU & 625.8/1075 PG Stabber - 171/375 CPU & 623.8/875 PG Moa - 219/450 CPU & 606.8/975 PG Omen - 214/312.5 CPU & 591.6/912.5 PG Thorax - 213.75/375 CPU & 714/1025 PG Caracal - 267.5/437.5 CPU & 569/662.5 PG Maller - 221.25/350 CPU & 1042.5/1125 PG Due to the lack of options in fitting our ships amarr are left with very few choices. No nano-fitting, no ewar fitting, tank or gank. These are the only things we can do so we would like to do them well. Only the maller is fitting top tier turrets, everything else is downsizing (omen too.) You don't wanna see the maller's DPS if it downsizes. In order of range @ 85% fall-offw/ shortrange weapons: Caracal Omen/maller Rupture/Stabber Moa Thorax/Vexor This is slightly deceptive, as the the omen (1), Moa (2), rupture (2) and the stabber (2) can fit 20km+ missiles in the spare slots(*). So, how lets look at effective weapons: Rupture - 8.6 Stabber - 7.25 Thorax - 6.25 Caracal - 6.25 Moa - 6 Omen - 5.33 Vexor - 5.25 Maller - 5 Next we will move onto available drones: Vexor - 75m3 Thorax - 50m3 Rupture - 30 m3 Omen - 15m3 Moa - 15m3 Caracal - 10m3 Stabber - 5m3 Maller - 0m3 Now effective HP and # of lows left in above config hitpoints: Maller - 9,399 3-lows Moa - 8,925 2-lows Thorax - 8,221 2-lows Rupture - 7,901 2-lows Omen - 7,054 2-lows Stabber - 6,667 2-lows Vexor - 6,807 2-lows Caracal - 6,481 0-lows And lastly speed and available mids: Stabber 367 m/s 3-mids Rupture 250 m/sec 3-mids omen 238 m/sec 3-mids Caracal 234 m/sec 5-mids Thorax 225 m/sec 3-mids Moa 219 m/sec 4-mids Maller 219 m/sec 3-mids Vexor 213m/sec 3-mids I think both amarrian vessels need a significant boost. Along with the Moa, and caracal gets a -5% rof to missiles instead of the kinetic bonus, give the moa and omen another turret w/ fitting, and change the maller's cap bonus to reflect the abaddon. You suck enormous balls. Go play Hello Kitty Island Adventure. It is more your speed.
shinsushi	Posted - 2007.11.12 21:42:00 - [15] Originally by: Arvald Edited by: Arvald on 12/11/2007 21:40:42 Edited by: Arvald on 12/11/2007 21:40:24 Originally by: shinsushi Edited by: shinsushi on 12/11/2007 21:38:34 Originally by: Arvald Originally by: shinsushi So instead of addressing and refuting my points, you guys are just going to troll? I guess that means I am right eh? and he calls us the trolls If you have a valid point, that you can back up thru logic or numbers, I will listen, unfortunately all you can do is violate forums rules and avoid the issue. im not saying your numbers arnt valid, im saying your an EFT noob who probably cant even fly and fit a frigate properly. also enjoy this pic while you spew about your nonsence Whats wrong with the fittings? Exactly, they are perfectly fine, allowing for a myriad of changes and options with ample fitting room left on each ship. Really... make a point or GTFO
Arvald Caldari Tutela Of Obscurum	Posted - 2007.11.12 21:44:00 - [16] Originally by: shinsushi Originally by: Arvald Edited by: Arvald on 12/11/2007 21:40:42 Edited by: Arvald on 12/11/2007 21:40:24 Originally by: shinsushi Edited by: shinsushi on 12/11/2007 21:38:34 Originally by: Arvald Originally by: shinsushi So instead of addressing and refuting my points, you guys are just going to troll? I guess that means I am right eh? and he calls us the trolls If you have a valid point, that you can back up thru logic or numbers, I will listen, unfortunately all you can do is violate forums rules and avoid the issue. im not saying your numbers arnt valid, im saying your an EFT noob who probably cant even fly and fit a frigate properly. also enjoy this pic while you spew about your nonsence Whats wrong with the fittings? Exactly, they are perfectly fine, allowing for a myriad of changes and options with ample fitting room left on each ship. Really... make a point or GTFO before you come to teh forums and whine take the setups you make in EFT and apply them in many diffrent situations, then and only then should you come to teh forums and post, also --------------------------- Im in your forums derailing your threads
shinsushi	Posted - 2007.11.12 21:47:00 - [17] Originally by: NoNah Originally by: Arvald Originally by: shinsushi So instead of addressing and refuting my points, you guys are just going to troll? I guess that means I am right eh? and he calls us the trolls I have a hard time accepting it, but in this thread, my god, shinsushi is the only one making any sense what so ever. I do hope you personally get a ban for that, then agian thats just wishful thinking. As for OP, you've posted alot of numbers with no back up, and no actual conclusion. Looking at those numbers(however oddly sorted and grouped(velocity and mids!?)) Caldari and Amarr both looks quite fine. The reason I grouped velocity and mids, along with hitpoints and lows was to conserve space. I think if you look at it again, there is plenty of back-up. Te fits are realistic, and there is all the proof in the world. I do not think you can say amarr and caldari look fine though. It makes no sense for the rupture to be outdamaging the omen. It has over 3 more effective weapons, more speed, more hitpoints, more drones, more of everything except for range. As much as range counts, so does changing your damage types and having to use no cap at all for your weapon systems, moreso even. BTW, thanks for not trolling.
OOOSOOO Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2007.11.12 21:51:00 - [18] This game was created. You play the game. You think the game was created wrong = you fail
Arvald Caldari Tutela Of Obscurum	Posted - 2007.11.12 21:51:00 - [19] Edited by: Arvald on 12/11/2007 21:52:35 Originally by: shinsushi Edited by: shinsushi on 12/11/2007 21:48:11 Originally by: NoNah Originally by: Arvald Originally by: shinsushi So instead of addressing and refuting my points, you guys are just going to troll? I guess that means I am right eh? and he calls us the trolls I have a hard time accepting it, but in this thread, my god, shinsushi is the only one making any sense what so ever. I do hope you personally get a ban for that, then agian thats just wishful thinking. As for OP, you've posted alot of numbers with no back up, and no actual conclusion. Looking at those numbers(however oddly sorted and grouped(velocity and mids!?)) Caldari and Amarr both looks quite fine. The reason I grouped velocity and mids, along with hitpoints and lows was to conserve space. I think if you look at it again, there is plenty of back-up. Te fits are realistic, and there is all the proof in the world. I do not think you can say amarr and caldari look fine though. It makes no sense for the rupture to be outdamaging the omen. It has over 3 more effective weapons, more speed, more hitpoints, more drones, more of everything except for range. As much as range counts, so does changing your damage types and having to use no cap at all for your weapon systems, moreso even. BTW, thanks for not trolling. EDIT: Arvald, welcome to petition-ville, population... you yeah but have you even tried to apply these settups in real situations or jsut completely hypothetical scenarios where everyone has max SP and everyone is as good as everyone else? also go ahead and petition me, all i have been doing is countering your EFT numbers with real world scenarios, and adding a comical twist one more thing, every time you whine a kitten gets --------------------------- Im in your forums derailing your threads
shinsushi	Posted - 2007.11.12 21:52:00 - [20] Originally by: OOOSOOO This game was created. You play the game. You think the game was created wrong = you fail Ok, duly noted next time you complain about anything at all, ever.
Arvald Caldari Tutela Of Obscurum	Posted - 2007.11.12 21:53:00 - [21] Originally by: OOOSOOO This game was created. You play the game. You think the game was created wrong = you fail / signed --------------------------- Im in your forums derailing your threads
shinsushi	Posted - 2007.11.12 21:56:00 - [22] Edited by: shinsushi on 12/11/2007 21:56:11 Originally by: Arvald ****posting Ok, so you have no points to back up your statements right? I mean why else would you not bring up a single point? Not even one. Your like the epitome of stupid posting. How do you have any clue what I have flown? You don't, alt remember. Your attacks are called Ad hominem, it means you are attacking the character and not the argument because you have no argument. Arvald, you know you are complaining about complaining?
OOOSOOO Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2007.11.12 21:59:00 - [23] Originally by: shinsushi Originally by: OOOSOOO This game was created. You play the game. You think the game was created wrong = you fail Ok, duly noted next time you complain about anything at all, ever. I can tell you that the only thing I hate about this game are whiners. Everything else is f'ing awesome. You are playing this game as it is and you complain that it is not what you want it to be. Its like going to a pizza place and saying "Where's my f'ing cheeseburger?!?!?!" Its just stupid. Go to the freaking burger place, and let the rest of us enjoy our pie.
shinsushi	Posted - 2007.11.12 22:03:00 - [24] Originally by: OOOSOOO Originally by: shinsushi Originally by: OOOSOOO This game was created. You play the game. You think the game was created wrong = you fail Ok, duly noted next time you complain about anything at all, ever. I can tell you that the only thing I hate about this game are whiners. Everything else is f'ing awesome. You are playing this game as it is and you complain that it is not what you want it to be. Its like going to a pizza place and saying "Where's my f'ing cheeseburger?!?!?!" Its just stupid. Go to the freaking burger place, and let the rest of us enjoy our pie. Hey you just complained about something, you should STFU according to your own arguments. An Ad Hominem is a general category of fallacies in which a claim or argument is rejected on the basis of some irrelevant fact about the author of or the person presenting the claim or argument.
Angel DeMorphis	Posted - 2007.11.12 22:04:00 - [25] Funny, I could get my theoretical EFT DPS on a Caracal up to 385, not the 320 you claim. You even fail at EFT, let alone Eve!
OOOSOOO Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2007.11.12 22:06:00 - [26] Originally by: shinsushi Originally by: OOOSOOO Originally by: shinsushi Originally by: OOOSOOO This game was created. You play the game. You think the game was created wrong = you fail Ok, duly noted next time you complain about anything at all, ever. I can tell you that the only thing I hate about this game are whiners. Everything else is f'ing awesome. You are playing this game as it is and you complain that it is not what you want it to be. Its like going to a pizza place and saying "Where's my f'ing cheeseburger?!?!?!" Its just stupid. Go to the freaking burger place, and let the rest of us enjoy our pie. Hey you just complained about something, you should STFU according to your own arguments. No, I said don't complain about an internet spaceship game, not stupid people. You can complain about stupid people all you want, but your arguments are void cause you're stupid.
tis per	Posted - 2007.11.12 22:14:00 - [27] Originally by: shinsushi Originally by: OOOSOOO i'm stupid yes you are. You are mad about someone complaining about balance in a game, so mad that you will complain about someone complaining about balance in a game. How do you not feel stupid. shinsushi GOT OWNED. muhahah makes me happy. best satisfaction for me is when whiners get owned. go play wow many whiners there, you can join them and make a clan/corp/guild, and whine together. HAHA owned. alts ftw
shinsushi	Posted - 2007.11.12 22:15:00 - [28] Originally by: mentalmonkey There is a mistake in this thread, you are all playing differnt games, half the posters are playing EVE-online, whereas the OP and serveral others have been playing a new game EFT-online. In EVE-online there are many situations, skills (both pilot and character), in EFT online there is DPS p.s with your subscription to these forums CCP threw in eve you should check it out. There are these posters who use the amazing thing called math. Its this mystical thing that you can use to explain how a thing will do given a situation. Its amazing how they can use these numbers to add up to things that happen inreality, and ever measure them. These people are the devil, and should be burned along with all books or any accumulated knowledge. An Ad Hominem is a general category of fallacies in which a claim or argument is rejected on the basis of some irrelevant fact about the author of or the person presenting the claim or argument.
OOOSOOO Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2007.11.12 22:16:00 - [29] Originally by: shinsushi Originally by: OOOSOOO i'm stupid yes you are. You are mad about someone complaining about balance in a game, so mad that you will complain about someone complaining about balance in a game. How do you not feel stupid. Not mad, just wondering why you still play this game when it makes you so butt-hurt. I am assuming you will quit at some point or already have and just use your account for forum revenge. I would ask for your stuff, but its got vaginal sand all over it.
shinsushi	Posted - 2007.11.12 22:16:00 - [30] Originally by: tis per Originally by: shinsushi Originally by: OOOSOOO i'm stupid yes you are. You are mad about someone complaining about balance in a game, so mad that you will complain about someone complaining about balance in a game. How do you not feel stupid. shinsushi GOT OWNED. muhahah makes me happy. best satisfaction for me is when whiners get owned. go play wow many whiners there, you can join them and make a clan/corp/guild, and whine together. HAHA owned. alts ftw You had your mommy help put on your pants today didn't you? An Ad Hominem is a general category of fallacies in which a claim or argument is rejected on the basis of some irrelevant fact about the author of or the person presenting the claim or argument.

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