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Hellspawn01
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Posted - 2004.03.03 23:10:00 -
[1]
Was that somekind of event which was hidden in the news? ---------------------------------------------
Eve is not game, it¦s a way of life! |
GATORAN
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Posted - 2004.03.03 23:12:00 -
[2]
lol
*read more in my ingame bio! Welcome |
Carmen Priano
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Posted - 2004.03.03 23:56:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Carmen Priano on 03/03/2004 23:58:50 Nope; that was a pirate corp setting up to kill slews of people for their own entertainment. What they did was shield-tank the CONCORD response and gate guns and have a ship running smartbombs and boosters constantly.
Let's be quite honest here; this fits the mechanics of the game -- but the systems CCP put in to protect certain areas of systems (or, indeed, certain entire systems or regions) aren't working as intended. As much as PvP and pirating are intended to be a part of the game, a lot of the parties who engage in it don't aim to profit, but instead to kill as many people as possible. Gate guns are intended to prevent PvP at gates -- they don't; go into .4 and below and you have no real defense against gate-camping save your own speed or armor. In .5 and above, where fleet responses are intended to prevent all PvP between non-warring groups, CONCORD or imperial fleet responses evidently aren't sufficient to counter certain plans.
Proposal: increase the range and power of gate guns. In .0 to .4 Empire, hunting will then occur at belts and endanger miners, but passers-through won't suffer. In .5 and above, increase the fleet response -- and target gang-mates of the offender, quite possibly?
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tuxedo
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Posted - 2004.03.04 01:30:00 -
[4]
It's kind of funny how it's an exploit to survive a concord attack, but CCP makes it possible. If CCP wanted to provent shield tanking of concord, all they would have to do is make them rediculously powerful. However shieldtanking concord and repeadedly podkilling in a 1.0 sounds like an exploit to me! +b
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Hafthor
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Posted - 2004.03.04 02:23:00 -
[5]
This was not an event.. there is already a thread on this in the general discussion channel.
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Briggi
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Posted - 2004.03.04 07:56:00 -
[6]
Quote: ...I say Zombie Inc. should be deleted and the members banned. if this continues, no one goes safe and CCP will loose player because of morrons who really makes the game unenjoyable. ill probly discontinue my subscribtion.
I agree 100%, the fact that it is possible to kill people in a 1.0 system is a bug therefore this attack was an exploit. If these rats are not banned CCP will lose all credibility!
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Quagmire
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Posted - 2004.03.04 10:38:00 -
[7]
They were griefing big-time, which is enough to get them the ban. They were not exploiting. They simply found a way to stave off Concord. -- Security Director, Draconis Industries. |
Maximilian
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Posted - 2004.03.04 11:10:00 -
[8]
I agree with Draxus, if this wasn't a bug then it makes Zombie inc awesome fighters and that is what this game is all about, developing new techniques to beat the computer and other players, then it is up to CCP to make it even more difficult, that way the game will keep being fun
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Haratu
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Posted - 2004.03.04 11:15:00 -
[9]
Quote: They were griefing big-time, which is enough to get them the ban. They were not exploiting. They simply found a way to stave off Concord.
People often forget that exploiting is not cheating, it is different. Exploiting is the use of the game mechanics to reduce the playability for others. I was nowhere near yulai at the time, but this 'event' ruined the game for others by some +ve security guys deciding to massacre a large amount of small guys in a 1.0 system... It just ain't cricket. Just because CCP have not stopped something from being done does not mean you should do it, it just means CCP had not considered it (or just thought people were mature enough not to do it).
I roleplay... there is this computer game called "Earth - The First Genesis" where i play a character in the early 21st century. |
Trak Cranker
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Posted - 2004.03.04 11:17:00 -
[10]
It should not be impossible to kill people in 1.0 - but the response if you do, should ensure that you are discouraged from it.
The argument that CCP made it possible is of course valid. But everyone nows that there are going to be loopholes and faults in a game like this. Any game for that matter. That is why you are more or less sworn not to explore these errors og unintended game mechanis - and should be banned if you do so exceedingly and knowingly.
Had Zombie Inc. gone 1-1 with Concord - or at least not exploited their stereotypic behaviour - I would have found it ok. If a pirate crew decides that they can muscle their way into a system, that should not be made a crime in itself - but of course create a response from Concord and friends Trak Cranker |
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Quagmire
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Posted - 2004.03.04 12:15:00 -
[11]
Can I just ask those that were caught up in Yulai last night...
What was the lag like?
Seriously? -- Security Director, Draconis Industries. |
Quagmire
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Posted - 2004.03.04 12:20:00 -
[12]
Quote: It should not be impossible to kill people in 1.0 - but the response if you do, should ensure that you are discouraged from it.
Exactly. It should not be impossible. It should be quite possible, but what's the reason for not doing it? Being beaten down by Concord. Concord couldn't do it this time around. That's their problem.
Sucks to be the innocents caught up in it, but this proves that with a determined force and enough planning, you can pull off things you're not supposed to do. Just like in real life.
I didn't see anything from CCP saying you're not allowed to help a person fighting. The responsibilty's on the policing force to identify helpers to agressors in a place that's meant to be secure, and provide the right amount of firepower to take these agressors out. Just like in real life. -- Security Director, Draconis Industries. |
Tyrrax Thorrk
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Posted - 2004.03.04 12:39:00 -
[13]
It was exploiting simply because the GMs have previously declared that it's an exploit to kill someone in 1.0 sec space without dying yourself.
SIMPLE.
As to the lag, it was quite bearable, especially considering there were like 150 people at the gate and over 250 in the system..
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Quagmire
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Posted - 2004.03.04 13:12:00 -
[14]
Don't be silly. It's not like there's a self-destruct button under the trigger, programmed to go off if you use it in 1.0, is there?
Concord are meant to kick your ass as a direct result of you opening fire in 1.0. But it's obvious that Concord in their current form can't be guaranteed to do this against some set ups. Therefore, Concord aren't effective enough and this is not an exploit. They did not cheat. They didn't use some strange quirk in the game to do what they wanted. They used perfectly legal mods and knowledge to out-wit the police force. If they had done this in a asteroid belt deep in 0.0, they would be praised for their skill. They use it against the police force and now it's an exploit? Give me a break.
In my opinion, this kind of thing makes EVE a lot more interesting. You're normally quite safe in 1.0, but nothing should be taken for granted. They shouldn't have killed as many innocent players, but I guess they figured they would be banned anyway and decided to see how far they could take it.
Seeing as two threads have already been locked, no doubt this one will soon. Thanks for listening. -- Security Director, Draconis Industries. |
Carfax
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Posted - 2004.03.04 13:23:00 -
[15]
If you were in Concord and someone was attacking ships in your system and using other ships to supply shield boosts then you would attack both the attacker and the support ships as all would be involved in the crime. Concord ships are not generally flown by real people so rely on an AI that fails to cover all situations that they should respond to. Therefore using shield boosting links to protect you against concord ships is exploiting this failing in AI. You are meant to follow the spirit of the game, play it as if it was real and not seek loop holes in the software as a short cut. Or is honesty and principles for suckers only ?
======================================== All Your Megabytes are belong to eve :( ======================================== |
PropanElgen
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Posted - 2004.03.04 13:34:00 -
[16]
Quote: Wah wah wah wah wah, boo hoo, you lost your ships. Zombie found a way to beat concord, good for them! Doesn't make it an exploit does it?!
CCP has said on numerous occations that they consider this an exploit (Surviving CONCORD in high sec systems)
And besides, Zombie Inc didnt find this way of beating CONCORD. They just used what they have read on the forums a long while ago (this was originally done by Space Invaders).
All the angels and the puny men of god looked away... Frightened to death by the evil that was born on that day!
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Di'Avaldi
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Posted - 2004.03.04 13:36:00 -
[17]
I do not think the pirating in Yulai was and exploit but I would like to see CCP change how they respond to such a situation. I think if the normal Concord response is not stopping the pirates it might be interesting if CCP set up something like the following response to the situation:
1)Send a broadcast meddage throughout Eve declaring the system unsafe due to increased pirating. This would give anyone a heads up not to go there.
2)In the broadcast also say that Concord has declared a state of martial law in the system.
3)With martial law declared Concord should have very large fleet in the system that will lock any target on sight. The target is given a sufficent amout of time to move along before they are destroyed and if they do not leave the Concord blows them up. This would give Concord the opportunity to blow any ship in the system, so pirates cannot work around being targets. This should clear up the pirate activity in the system quickly.
4)Remove martial law from the system as quickly as possible because I am sure someone just passing throught does not want there ship blown up bc they were not paying attention.
Hopefully this would clear the system of pirates quickly and allow normal activity to start as soon as possible.
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Ribbo
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Posted - 2004.03.04 13:41:00 -
[18]
If the GM's state that it's an exploit then it's an exploit and should result in appropriate punishment.
However, i do think that ships should be capable of attacking other ships in 1.0 but the principle that it's illegal and that concord will destroy you for it is the correct method as this puts the onus on player choice. However i do think that concord should be more flexible, if there are a large amount of ships causing trouble then they should undock a larger fleet and go hell for leather at everyone in the gang. This will add another variable into the mix as it will also put onus onto gang members to keep other gang members in check.
Regards
Ribbo
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darth solo
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Posted - 2004.03.04 13:42:00 -
[19]
Quote:
If they used a grid bug, then ban them. If they didn't it's not an exploit. !
killing some1 in 1.0 and not losing ur ship is an exploit, CCP have made it clear, they are the gods of EVE.
Plz read game rules befor responding.
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Quagmire
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Posted - 2004.03.04 13:49:00 -
[20]
Quote: And besides, Zombie Inc didnt find this way of beating CONCORD. They just used what they have read on the forums a long while ago (this was originally done by Space Invaders).
Then CCP should be ashamed of themselves that they haven't fixed this. How many petitions are they going to have to deal with because they can't make an intelligent enough police force? More than 200, right?
I hope they get paid for overtime.
Regarding Di'Avaldi's post, did any warnings go out? Would sound like to me that nothing was done for at least an hour. Why? And what's wrong with spawning 30 Concord battleships? Surely that would have taken care of the aggressors. No-one's *that* strong.
CCP saying 'that's not fair, keep to the spirit of the game!' sounds like a whiny kid that got caught out. Especially when it's been done before. -- Security Director, Draconis Industries. |
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Thanetor
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Posted - 2004.03.04 14:17:00 -
[21]
Quote:
Quote: Wah wah wah wah wah, boo hoo, you lost your ships. Zombie found a way to beat concord, good for them! Doesn't make it an exploit does it?!
CCP has said on numerous occations that they consider this an exploit (Surviving CONCORD in high sec systems)
CCP may have said this Propan but personally I don't see how they justify it.
They maintain - As far as the game is concerned you should not be able to survive an attack by concord in 1.0. Well in that case - how can it happen? As in 'real life' criminals manage to get away with crime due to outsmarting or outrunning the system, as did the Zombies.
The fact is these people did survive something they should not be able to - how does this justify banning them. If anything perhaps Zombie have highlighted the wonderful human trait of dishonest propeganda. They have proved that what CCP say about 1.0 systems is, in simple fact, untrue.
I have no idea if Zombie intended this demonstration to highlight this or simply just to cause grief. However, CCP's reaction of banning these people smacks of totalitarianism if u ask me.
Guys rather than demonstrating your 'knee-jerk' reactions in the face of being 'caught out' you could learn from the experience and fix the problem in the 1st place.
Is this justice or have you simply set a precident for banning people who highlight questionable balancing and false statements I wonder ?
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Asharee Intrefer
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Posted - 2004.03.04 14:59:00 -
[22]
Hmm.. my personal opinions about this...
1. The Police not engaging ships supporting an aggressor could be considered a flaw in the game mechanics...
2. Using a certain flaw in the game mechanics to kill people who just happen to pass by in a system that is said to be safe makes it hard to say it is not an exploit...
3. In this case hundreds of ships were destoryed. I think the scale of it makes it a clear griefing operation, and not a "highligting of questionable balancing"...
4. And anyway, I think the agreements make it clear that the game is played by any rules set up by CCP, and also that CCP may make exceptions to rules at their discretion.
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Randuin MaraL
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Posted - 2004.03.04 15:56:00 -
[23]
Many threats about it ...
As long as game mechanics are used to kill local security - tis no exploit but something CCP needs to take care of. But - we do not talk about killing some NPC drones here - Zombies blocked a 1.0 system and shot all that passed, making gameplay impossible for the trespassers. This "is" an exploit as it was done by intention and to "have fun" at the costs of others. ____________________________________________________
Never be in the company of anyone with whom you would not want to die.
MEDUSA veteran, Khumaak Award winner |
b0ing
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Posted - 2004.03.04 16:16:00 -
[24]
Actually, i think that this is Zombie¦s way to leave the game
why should they leave? .. my guess is all the changes CCP has made to piracy.
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Aranox
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Posted - 2004.03.04 16:17:00 -
[25]
Quote: Many threats about it ...
As long as game mechanics are used to kill local security - tis no exploit but something CCP needs to take care of. But - we do not talk about killing some NPC drones here - Zombies blocked a 1.0 system and shot all that passed, making gameplay impossible for the trespassers. This "is" an exploit as it was done by intention and to "have fun" at the costs of others.
Agreed
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Femintaki
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Posted - 2004.03.04 16:18:00 -
[26]
Quote: Can I just ask those that were caught up in Yulai last night...
What was the lag like?
Seriously?
In my experience there was NO LAG at all - which was quite somthing as there were 204 players in system while I was there - very impressive server and game performance!
Quote: Do or do not. There is no try.
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Milambar
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Posted - 2004.03.04 16:45:00 -
[27]
Quote:
Idiot!!! Maybe an 18+ certificate should be put on the game to stop little children from only buying the game to abuse it any way they can. Log out, coz your certainly not logged in!
I believe Aranox everyone is entitled to an opinion, which as I see it is all Draxus expressed. Unlike your good self however he managed to do so without resorting to purile name calling.
Perhaps if you can't treat the people in these forums with a little respect you should consider not using them at all.
I belive it was Oscar Wilde who said "it's one thing to appear a fool, it something else entirely when you open your mouth and prove it." |
Novamute
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Posted - 2004.03.04 17:03:00 -
[28]
I am small. I just try to stay the hell out of Zombie's way
Novamute |
cmdrattus
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Posted - 2004.03.04 17:51:00 -
[29]
If you were in Concord and someone was attacking ships in your system and using other ships to supply shield boosts then you would attack both the attacker and the support ships as all would be involved in the crime. Concord ships are not generally flown by real people so rely on an AI that fails to cover all situations that they should respond to. Therefore using shield boosting links to protect you against concord ships is exploiting this failing in AI. You are meant to follow the spirit of the game, play it as if it was real and not seek loop holes in the software as a short cut. Or is honesty and principles for suckers only ?
If it was real well u would send in someone bigger than (concord) cops like FBI CIA Armed Forces(marines) so even tho i dont agree with zombie hate rats ccp did the easy (wrong) thing in banning them rather they should right (harder) thing and introduce armed forces to the game but no this means more work
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Rizmordan Hillgotlieb
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Posted - 2004.03.04 18:12:00 -
[30]
I don't care much about what they did - CCP can deal with that.
I just want to know how they did it!
Posting for Numbnutz |
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