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Maud Dib	Posted - 2004.03.04 13:42:00 - [1] Edited by: Maud Dib on 04/03/2004 13:57:31 Just wait it's coming. After the events in Yulai you can bet that Concord is going to be even more over reactive. I'm guessing 30 battleships at the gates with area effect weapons. Maybe they will auto jam you on jumping in. Good job Zombies we needed more Concord. /me waits for them to complain about Concord being too strong in a few days.
Khal St	Posted - 2004.03.04 13:55:00 - [2] Jade! Miso! Liahaun! Maud's got out and hes giving people ideas again!! Only the insane prosper, only those who prosper can truly judge what is sane... Try TXI's Cal-afeÖ - That Caldari Power Taste! and now.. Tri-StarsiÖ - Power, Wealth & Revenge!
Lianhaun	Posted - 2004.03.04 13:58:00 - [3] I'm afraid he's a bit attention starved I take full responsibility This is not a hijack
Chinagirl	Posted - 2004.03.04 14:02:00 - [4] I dont see why the GMs couldnt have some kind of warning system which shows Concord getting their asses handed to them and then join in with uber pimped BS to sort out the griefers. Either that or introduce aggro ie ships using support modules get hit first. ---------------------- SHHHAAAmOOOAN
Maud Dib	Posted - 2004.03.04 14:02:00 - [5] Edited by: Maud Dib on 04/03/2004 14:10:46 Oh no don't blame this on me. Blame the morons who had to prove a point. The point being that players can be big enough*****holsters that CCP has to really over do it. The first Concord boost you can blame the furries for. This one we will be able to blame one corp for. They should be perma banned but instead we will all have to live with even more god like concord. It would be nice if the Corps of EVE would ALL put them on their KOS lists for screwing up the game for the rest of us but since most people are so afraid of losing their ships they run to Concord like they run to their mothers. God I don't know who digusts me more
Xavier Arron	Posted - 2004.03.04 14:09:00 - [6] hehe - it is part of eve history for sure, im gonna start selling T-Shirts to all thoses involved... "I was at Pod Fest 2004" :) My suggestions: 1)When someone initiates aggression in empire they should be attackable but everyone for a period of time. This way passer's by could help out. 2)Support ships should of been made hostile eon's ago, tactic used has been know for months. 3)Sentry guns should be beefier any how, they should be large gun platforms with various mods on like warp jammers / webs etc... 4)lol - what happens when shield tanked titans come in, in May? I hope concord get better ships by then. 5)This was suggested in idea lab a little while ago. When pirate / offender is destroyed, his pod is scooped and his put in prision at station for X length of time depending on crimes. So for every ship destroyed 4-12 hrs depending on where ship was destroyed and perhaps 24hrs per podding. so zombie lot would serve (if caught) 24 x 84 (i think that was number of poddings) = 2016 hrs or 84 days :) I think serving time is more of a deterent than losing ship and would result in less pod killings in empire. Bounty hunters could then hunt and turn pirates in, perhaps gaining cash reward from concord aswell.
Athule Snanm	Posted - 2004.03.04 14:17:00 - [7] Someone mentioned in one of the other locked threads that in most other MMORPGs healers get treated as aggressors if the person they're healing or ganged with acts as an aggressor, that's obviously the sensible way to have it and if that's the end result then I don't see it as being a big deal. It also means that non-corp support ships pick up the war status from the ship they're aiding - so it plugs that exploit too. Sadly I fear you may be right, simply adding an ³berconcord death fleet to every sentry gun might be a kneejerk and easy to implement reaction _______________________________ Doomheim - EVE's only hygiene!
Chinagirl	Posted - 2004.03.04 14:18:00 - [8] Quote: 5)This was suggested in idea lab a little while ago. When pirate / offender is destroyed, his pod is scooped and his put in prision at station for X length of time depending on crimes. So for every ship destroyed 4-12 hrs depending on where ship was destroyed and perhaps 24hrs per podding. so zombie lot would serve (if caught) 24 x 84 (i think that was number of poddings) = 2016 hrs or 84 days :) I think serving time is more of a deterent than losing ship and would result in less pod killings in empire. Thats seems a bit harsh and should empire be totally free of pod kills? ---------------------- SHHHAAAmOOOAN
Dayon	Posted - 2004.03.04 14:23:00 - [9] Quote: hehe - it is part of eve history for sure, im gonna start selling T-Shirts to all thoses involved... "I was at Pod Fest 2004" :) My suggestions: 1)When someone initiates aggression in empire they should be attackable but everyone for a period of time. This way passer's by could help out. 2)Support ships should of been made hostile eon's ago, tactic used has been know for months. 3)Sentry guns should be beefier any how, they should be large gun platforms with various mods on like warp jammers / webs etc... 4)lol - what happens when shield tanked titans come in, in May? I hope concord get better ships by then. 5)This was suggested in idea lab a little while ago. When pirate / offender is destroyed, his pod is scooped and his put in prision at station for X length of time depending on crimes. So for every ship destroyed 4-12 hrs depending on where ship was destroyed and perhaps 24hrs per podding. so zombie lot would serve (if caught) 24 x 84 (i think that was number of poddings) = 2016 hrs or 84 days :) I think serving time is more of a deterent than losing ship and would result in less pod killings in empire. Bounty hunters could then hunt and turn pirates in, perhaps gaining cash reward from concord aswell. Totally right let the other players deal with them. but a bounty on them and give the status like NPC rats (no standing loss for killing/podding and no help from condor/sentry guns anywhere) for a set amount of time (game time not offline time) after how bad the crimes was and put a small reward on them like 8-100K after what ship they fly.
shakaZ XV	Posted - 2004.03.04 14:23:00 - [10] Quote: Edited by: Maud Dib on 04/03/2004 13:57:31 Just wait it's coming. After the events in Yulai you can bet that Concord is going to be even more over reactive. I'm guessing 30 battleships at the gates with area effect weapons. Maybe they will auto jam you on jumping in. Good job Zombies we needed more Concord. /me waits for them to complain about Concord being too strong in a few days. But whats the point in having "defeatable" concord when its deemed illegal to do just that? ========================= One small step for me, one giant leap for ALT-kind.
Xavier Arron	Posted - 2004.03.04 14:25:00 - [11] Edited by: Xavier Arron on 04/03/2004 14:27:15 Quote: Thats seems a bit harsh and should empire be totally free of pod kills? I just made those times up, but some sort of time penalty would have to be served and your criminal record would be cumulative, so notorious criminals who had crimes out standing e.g. 4 pod kills when caught would serve time for all 4.
Baldour Ngarr	Posted - 2004.03.04 14:29:00 - [12] There's two distinct issues here, that tend to get mixed up. Firstly, the criminal act of killing someone; this is a crime in in-game terms, but it's perfectly acceptable by the game rules. Even killing someone in 1.0 space is acceptable by the game rules, PROVIDED you pay the associated penalty for your criminal act. Secondly, breach of the game rules; which is the stuff we're not allowed to talk about. Anyone breaching the game rules - that is, the game rules as they are intended by CCP, not what's phsyically possible by inventing a sneaky new tactic - should be, and usually is, banned. Making people serve time for their crimes is not on; you're effectively banning someone who has committed no rule breach, only a roleplay-terms crime. In-game crime has to be met by in-game punishment; and even that, only when it's committed in high security areas. mOo massacring people in PF-346 would be equally criminal, but since it's in a lawless area, they could, and should, get away unpunished. _______ "Soon" is an ancient Icelandic word meaning "some time before the next Ice Age."
Sheriff Jones	Posted - 2004.03.04 14:30:00 - [13] Edited by: Sheriff Jones on 04/03/2004 14:31:40 With prison comes these little problems. You would have to give players something to do while locked up. Because otherwise people would quite faster then a titan ganks a newbeship. The player should be seen in custody, for Roleplay elements. The player should be able to be "sprung out" by fellow pirates, as in, jail escape. There would be need for special lockup stations for this "freeing of mate" could be done. Possibly a 3d mode, quake, doom, to run through the station to free the guy. Camouflage skill to make YOU look like concorde who is just picking up a prisoner. You be the judge, do you want people to have jailtime or are there bigger issues at hand? EDIT: Oh, on the topic. homeworlds should be hard as an ancient evil ten times bigger then a titan to take over like that so..bring more firepower.
Maud Dib	Posted - 2004.03.04 14:31:00 - [14] What we need is for Concord to be scaled down as sec rating drops. Everybody knows that CCP doesn't want you killing in 1.0 and they will do whatever it takes to stop that. The problem is it carries over into lower sec rating systems. When you get gate guns that have whole system range and do 1,000,000 per hit make sure you send the Zombies a thank you note.
Baldour Ngarr	Posted - 2004.03.04 14:33:00 - [15] Edited by: Baldour Ngarr on 04/03/2004 14:35:13 Quote: But whats the point in having "defeatable" concord when its deemed illegal to do just that? Cross-purposes. In an ideal scenario, it should be possible for a corp to attack CONCORD and survive; but, in high-security space, it should not be possible for anyone, or any corp, to attack other players and survive. And, of course, since some people take great pride and pleasure from doing what they shouldn't, if it's possible to survive CONCORD at all, people will kill other players while doing so. Hence we have an uber-police force, and will shortly have an even uber-er one. _______ "Soon" is an ancient Icelandic word meaning "some time before the next Ice Age."
Xavier Arron	Posted - 2004.03.04 14:39:00 - [16] Edited by: Xavier Arron on 04/03/2004 14:45:14 Quote: Making people serve time for their crimes is not on; you're effectively banning someone who has committed no rule breach, only a roleplay-terms crime. In-game crime has to be met by in-game punishment; and even that, only when it's committed in high security areas. mOo massacring people in PF-346 would be equally criminal, but since it's in a lawless area, they could, and should, get away unpunished. ItÆs not banning anyone its role play!!!! and it is an in game punishment. If you blow up a ship / pod in 0.0 no sec hit so not held against you as itÆs out of empire. In low sec areas Concorde doesnÆt show, but bounty hunters do. So they can take a pirate in or "ransom them" to let them go :) û I like that idea. Its risk of being a pirate!!!!!
Sheriff Jones	Posted - 2004.03.04 14:41:00 - [17] Read my earlier, the roleplay asset brings too much work to be implemented on the whim.
Dayon	Posted - 2004.03.04 14:42:00 - [18] I think the whole jail thing will be very hard to implement. But the loosing of all rights would be easy and let "law biding" players get a more level playing field when fighting back at the pirates.
dalman	Posted - 2004.03.04 14:48:00 - [19] Quote: drunkenmaster: "Had a few people or a corp actually done something about this, their names would be almost as well known as Zombies now are. Can you imagine the carebear respect you would get for ending a situation like this? People would be sending you fur samples for a month..." - LMAO This is regarding Zombies in Yulai, right? What I can't understand: There must be some corps that are in war with Zombies. WTF were they doing? If they had gone to yulai they would have slaughtered the Zombies there. M.I.A. since 2004-07-30
drunkenmaster	Posted - 2004.03.04 15:04:00 - [20] Edited by: drunkenmaster on 04/03/2004 15:07:44 increasing the power of concord ships will make no difference whatsoever. Once concord have started attacking you, you have to die. refusing to will get you a 'vacation' (and not in the good, Hawaii sense) What difference will making their guns bigger make, if your only choice is to die? It will simply make the wait shorter. Also, other than a few GMs/Polaris vols time, what was lost here? nothing. everyone got ther crap back. Zombies made a name for themselves. Sadly no 'good guys' managed to make a name for themselves (they should have tried, I'm sure 'concord' would have fixed their security after such a heroic act....) .
Chinagirl	Posted - 2004.03.04 15:07:00 - [21] Quote: ItÆs not banning anyone its role play!!!! and it is an in game punishment. If you blow up a ship / pod in 0.0 no sec hit so not held against you as itÆs out of empire. In low sec areas Concorde doesnÆt show, but bounty hunters do. So they can take a pirate in or "ransom them" to let them go :) û I like that idea. Its risk of being a pirate!!!!! People also wanted to be able to detain enemy pods and keep em as prisoners. Makes perfect RP sense but would be a stupid idea and i think Concord taking prisoners would be just as stupid. Also in terms of the yulai incident it would not have worked as if understand correctly Zombie carried on doing their thing till they got banned by the GMs. There is already a suitable RP punishment the Sec status hit. After podding 81 people in yulai I doubt very much they would have anything above -10 sec status and as such if they died they are paying a penalty already. Quote: I think the whole jail thing will be very hard to implement. But the loosing of all rights would be easy and let "law biding" players get a more level playing field when fighting back at the pirates. Do you mean like the can looting system ie they Pod someone and are open to attack from all? ---------------------- SHHHAAAmOOOAN
Xavier Arron	Posted - 2004.03.04 15:14:00 - [22] Peeps would be held in the nearest station; they could still trade and talk to corp. / manage corp. etc... But station background would prison :) and they canÆt leave station until sentence is up. Could be option to halve sentence if they pay fine etc... It would add good role play element to eve, at the moment players get annoyed by fact that there is NO JUSTICE in EVE. ItÆs impossible for noobs or small / med corps to go up against many large pirate groups or pvpers. As I have said before pirates should have more ways to extract cargo without blowing up ship or podding. Adding some type of cutting laser (like mining laser), that can cut through hull once shield and armour is down, and extract ALL the cargo :) All just ideas!
DeGrand	Posted - 2004.03.04 15:27:00 - [23] Guess no big corp is at war with em...or they dont really care, since the zombies usually are a ways out of big-corp territory..
Xavier Arron	Posted - 2004.03.04 15:34:00 - [24] Edited by: Xavier Arron on 04/03/2004 15:56:28 Quote: Can you imagine the carebear respect you would get for ending a situation like this? People would be sending you fur samples for a month..." Lol - drunkenmaster I was wetting myself with laughter for a good 20mins when I read that :) Btw I hate getting ganked and donÆt condone what happened, but concord should / and have already paid up for failing to insure security. But hats off to them for a very daring move. I would like to have seen some roleplay here ôe.g. outraged citizens call for the heads of those responsible for yulai massacre and there will be a ceremony and day of mourningö etcà If this is home world type system, where is Faction Navy? There should have been 10 tanked up Titians jump in with X-Large projectiles :) as soon as Concorde ship got killed. Like you said its a shame no one joined in to help out. As per my other suggestion, on initiating an attack a player should be open to attack by anyone else in system:)
Dasani	Posted - 2004.03.04 15:36:00 - [25] Let players join Concord. A PC police force would be cool. Or, perhaps allow players to temporarily join a task force to eliminate the threat.
Athule Snanm	Posted - 2004.03.04 15:44:00 - [26] Quote: ...There should have been 10 tanked up Titians jump in with X-Large projectiles... Wow, now that I would like to see - do they shoot as the original painted! _______________________________ Doomheim - EVE's only hygiene!
Khali Nephtys	Posted - 2004.03.04 15:53:00 - [27] Edited by: Khali Nephtys on 04/03/2004 15:54:40 Hmm how about leaving concord as it is, and implementing the aiding of offenders by shield boosting etc becoming a shared act of aggression, and while we are at it make it so that gangs can be attackable or attack in response to aggression to a gang member? Make targetting an act of aggression too, it works in other games. I'd also propose fixed penalties in 1.0 space, so if you want to sit at gates targetting people you get fined, if you want to fly suicide missions in a kestrel, you not only lose your ship, but you also get a prohibitive fine. Concord have enough data to tell you who shot at you and with what weapon, so by extension they can easily impose fixed penalties for such actions in 1.0 space. As we all know 1.0 space is supposed to be 'safe' it's where new players can explore the game in freedom and safety, they really don't need to be getting ganked by bored or generally disruptive elements on their first few days/weeks into the game. Khabs am pehkt...........seize the stars.
Jash Illian	Posted - 2004.03.04 15:54:00 - [28] "some people thought having a indiscriminate NPC gank squad was a solution." Jash Illian Said that a ways back. But there's more to it than CONCORD being an unthinking sledgehammer. They're NPCs. NPCs will always be limited by programming. They cannot adapt to a situation beyond the limits of their programming. That's why it'll never be a solution. No matter how high CCP raises the bar on the Connies strength, *there will always be a bar. And someone will always eventually find a way to jump over that bar. CONCORD is a lost cause. The best it can do is make it difficult for someone to jump over that bar. What CCP should do is say "Okay, this is the bar. Anyone over that bar is your responsibility* to deal with as players". If they do not say it, they'll keep raising that bar, all the while ignoring that the bar is so far above the average player that simple mistakes or bugs in their code guarantees destruction and loss. The fact that Zombie Inc. was able to rack up the number of kills shows how pathetically soft the denizens of this universe has gotten. In an environment that actually had risk Zombie Inc would have prolly been eliminated by well armed, battle experienced players in short order. Eve is supposed to be an environment that has risk. Yulai showed the reality of what the Eve universe really is. And people reeled like a man mugged in a meadow I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather *** my enemy.- Rohann Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!*- Lallante
Mon Palae	Posted - 2004.03.04 16:01:00 - [29] Edited by: Mon Palae on 04/03/2004 16:22:16 Quote: Edited by: drunkenmaster on 04/03/2004 15:07:44 increasing the power of concord ships will make no difference whatsoever. Once concord have started attacking you, you have to die. refusing to will get you a 'vacation' (and not in the good, Hawaii sense) What difference will making their guns bigger make, if your only choice is to die? It will simply make the wait shorter. Also, other than a few GMs/Polaris vols time, what was lost here? nothing. everyone got ther crap back. Zombies made a name for themselves. Sadly no 'good guys' managed to make a name for themselves (they should have tried, I'm sure 'concord' would have fixed their security after such a heroic act....) I really do not understand the "you must die" part of attacking anyone in 1.0 space. If that is the case then CONCORD should have instagank weapons or all ships are outfitted with an autodestruct...shoot someone in hi-sec you aren't supposed to you just blow-up on the spot. Sounds silly? It's supposed to. If CONCORD ships, strong as they are, are not meant to be at all avoidable/destructible then why not simply making them that way? I am not arguing that this be the case as I think a player should be able to evade CONCORD and/or successfully fight them...just be very hard to do so. If the rule is you must die then they may as well make the wait shorter. As to the no "good guys" showing up it was by no means clear that doing so would see them get their sec ratings fixed by CCP afterwards. Unless they are at war with the corp attacking the gankers would also see them get attacked by CONCORD and of course a successful attack on Zombie by players would have necessitated attacks on some ships first that weren't deemed as aggressors so again...CONCORD now targets them. Everyone knows CCP is exceedingly tight about replacing anything in this game and respond to petitions slowly if at all in many cases. Any player who consider doing this saw the excellent liklihood that they would take a sec hit and lose their ship outright to CONCORD for their troubles and that would be the end of it...no reason to think it would be 'fixed' later. So while I agree it would have been great to see a player response to this I do not see how you can at all think such a response could ever be expected as the game stands now and how CCP almost religiously avoids reimbursing players for damn near anything.
Baleur	Posted - 2004.03.04 16:09:00 - [30] what the hell are you complaining about?? real pirates have no business in 1.0 space anyway, so hell yeah, increase concord's power tenfold in those systems, they should be near impossible for anything less than an alliance! God i gotta change my sig..

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